Manual de la Torre Method

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  • erikroerikro Massachusetts Members Posts: 631 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mocokid said:
    maybe this one too, body very quiet in downswing, watch his left leg and right foot.

    I’d say this is exactly what Clement teaches

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    I like that. I built something similar with my daughter’s jumping rope and my dog’s chew ball. Same concept, easy swing to feel the rotational forces as you swing forward to the target.

    @Cg1013 said:
    Has anyone used this? Seems pretty relevant to mdlt and Jones' swinging the pocket knife. Thinking about buying this or making it myself. https://www.swingthepro.com/

  • Cg1013Cg1013 Members Posts: 8 ✭✭

    I think I'm going to make my own using a dog dummy and a rope. Even imagining I'm swinging it while swinging a club gives me a much different feel.

    Mdlt was working well for me for about a month. I have since lost something and I'm really struggling. Hopefully this can help.

  • gamesgames Argue for your limitations and they are yours. Des MoinesMembers Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cg1013 said:
    Has anyone used this? Seems pretty relevant to mdlt and Jones' swinging the pocket knife. Thinking about buying this or making it myself. https://www.swingthepro.com/

    Ever put your best “dry” practice swing on a real golf ball with a real golf club? Swing looks gorgeous but the ball goes right of Limbaugh because clubface doesn’t square.

    If you think reps will get you there, track down a Whippy Tempomaster.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @games said:

    @Cg1013 said:
    Has anyone used this? Seems pretty relevant to mdlt and Jones' swinging the pocket knife. Thinking about buying this or making it myself. https://www.swingthepro.com/

    Ever put your best “dry” practice swing on a real golf ball with a real golf club? Swing looks gorgeous but the ball goes right of Limbaugh because clubface doesn’t square.

    If you think reps will get you there, track down a Whippy Tempomaster.

    If you aren't getting the club back to square at impact you need to work on that. Slow motion part swing in which you swing the club back, over your trail shoulder and then return it slowly square to the address position which was square to the ball with your arms until that becomes natural.

    If that doesn't do it review your pre-shot, grip, posture and alignment in balance with the target.

    I too like the Whippy Tempomaster but it won't teach you to return the club square at impact. You have to work on that your self.

    Steve

  • Cg1013Cg1013 Members Posts: 8 ✭✭

    Im not sure exactly what my problem is currently. At some point i started swaying back considerably in the backswing, I was able to correct that but ever since I have all kinds of mechanics thoughts that have flooded the brain. I am hitting it well at the range but after about 5 or 6 holes on the course the wheels come off. Last week I was slicing the **** out of my driver and then pulling my irons. I think i am coming across the ball and not swinging toward the target. I went to the range and envisioned i was swinging that training aid i linked earlier. It seemed to make a difference. But then again...i am scratch at the driving range.

  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers Posts: 13,442 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cg1013 said:
    Im not sure exactly what my problem is currently. At some point i started swaying back considerably in the backswing, I was able to correct that but ever since I have all kinds of mechanics thoughts that have flooded the brain. I am hitting it well at the range but after about 5 or 6 holes on the course the wheels come off. Last week I was slicing the **** out of my driver and then pulling my irons. I think i am coming across the ball and not swinging toward the target. I went to the range and envisioned i was swinging that training aid i linked earlier. It seemed to make a difference. But then again...i am scratch at the driving range.

    For me...I visualize the ENTIRE club swinging on plane towards the target. I like placing an object just outside the target line, a club shipping box, or headcover....and make sure I am not swinging over the top or too inside out. The club should swing on plane back and forward just like it is explained in the book. Works for me...YMMV.


    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w, Ping G410 7 wood
    Ping G 4-U
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  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    Good tips! Same thing happened to me after a couple of months. I think it is simply the brain saying “ok, you are comfortable now with this swing, but if you add a little hip motion and shift change maybe you can get another 15 yards per club”... then the swaying starts, inconsistent contacts, slices, shoulder turns... and all the sudden you are out of sink.
    Relax, breath out, loose arms, feet together, put it here (over trailer shoulder), brush grass, then take it to here (over front shoulder). Forget everything else.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think I have ever before shared my personal swing thought but this one has served me so well and so long I think it might help others. I don't usually share because what's good for me might not be good for anyone else so take this with caution. What this is is by no means a deviation from what Manny taught me. Its just something that helps me do what he told me to do.

    Without further adieu I think of making the back swing by swinging the club, with both hands, away from the target and past my body to the end of the back swing. Then I think of swinging the club with both arms past my body and toward the target.

    Thinking in terms of making the back swing away from he target instead of just back seems to keep me engaged with my target. Thinking of swinging back and forward past my body helps keep my swing center steady, improves consistency and I think adds speed. I want he club to be moving around my body without my body moving side to side with the club.

    Just a mental picture that helps me do what Manny told me to do. Perhaps it will help you.

    Steve

  • Cg1013Cg1013 Members Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited Jul 19, 2019 2:39pm #1211

    I really appreciate everyone sharing and i will give it a shot and see if it helps. I do have a problem keeping my body still. I tend to want to follow the club back and forward with the swing, instead of rotating my body. This might give me a better visualization.

  • tm3tm3 Members Posts: 100 ✭✭

    @Cg1013 said:
    Has anyone used this? Seems pretty relevant to mdlt and Jones' swinging the pocket knife. Thinking about buying this or making it myself. https://www.swingthepro.com/

    I have played around some with a similar device

    I felt like it encouraged casting, but maybe I was doing it wrong.

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    Right now the focus of my practice is to hit a small bucket of balls with totally relaxed arms (if I start sweating I’m hitting them wrong) . By relaxed I mean dead, spaghetti arms. This, and the fact that I am trying to do absolutely nothing with my wrists on the downswing is making me find the sweetspot on the clubface more often. I am also trying to focus more on using my arms to swing and trying to avoid turning forward with my shoulders too early, just letting it happen as a result of the arm swing. Even the sound of the shots are different, compressing the ball more i think. If I had to describe the feeling (my feeling!), it’s more like a two-handed backswing in tennis. It is also naturally putting me in the right position in the follow-thru after impact, not coming across to the left so much and going more vertical and over to my lead shoulder.
    It’s always so hard to describe it all in writing. Steve always does a great job, thanks Steve!
    I played Streamsong Blue and the swing held up really good. Lightning fast greens so I had to readjust chipping technique, the 7 iron was rolling like the 5 iron normally does, the PW like a 8iron, etc.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @skajaquada77 said:
    Right now the focus of my practice is to hit a small bucket of balls with totally relaxed arms (if I start sweating I’m hitting them wrong) . By relaxed I mean dead, spaghetti arms. This, and the fact that I am trying to do absolutely nothing with my wrists on the downswing is making me find the sweetspot on the clubface more often. I am also trying to focus more on using my arms to swing and trying to avoid turning forward with my shoulders too early, just letting it happen as a result of the arm swing. Even the sound of the shots are different, compressing the ball more i think. If I had to describe the feeling (my feeling!), it’s more like a two-handed backswing in tennis. It is also naturally putting me in the right position in the follow-thru after impact, not coming across to the left so much and going more vertical and over to my lead shoulder.
    It’s always so hard to describe it all in writing. Steve always does a great job, thanks Steve!
    I played Streamsong Blue and the swing held up really good. Lightning fast greens so I had to readjust chipping technique, the 7 iron was rolling like the 5 iron normally does, the PW like a 8iron, etc.

    Totally relaxed below the elbows but it is the arms that power the forward swing. Relaxed, fast, supple muscles sure, but I don't see how spaghetti can power the forward swing. Spaghetti is for clam sauce, not swinging the club.

    Steve

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    @juststeve said:

    @skajaquada77 said:
    Right now the focus of my practice is to hit a small bucket of balls with totally relaxed arms (if I start sweating I’m hitting them wrong) . By relaxed I mean dead, spaghetti arms. This, and the fact that I am trying to do absolutely nothing with my wrists on the downswing is making me find the sweetspot on the clubface more often. I am also trying to focus more on using my arms to swing and trying to avoid turning forward with my shoulders too early, just letting it happen as a result of the arm swing. Even the sound of the shots are different, compressing the ball more i think. If I had to describe the feeling (my feeling!), it’s more like a two-handed backswing in tennis. It is also naturally putting me in the right position in the follow-thru after impact, not coming across to the left so much and going more vertical and over to my lead shoulder.
    It’s always so hard to describe it all in writing. Steve always does a great job, thanks Steve!
    I played Streamsong Blue and the swing held up really good. Lightning fast greens so I had to readjust chipping technique, the 7 iron was rolling like the 5 iron normally does, the PW like a 8iron, etc.

    Totally relaxed below the elbows but it is the arms that power the forward swing. Relaxed, fast, supple muscles sure, but I don't see how spaghetti can power the forward swing. Spaghetti is for clam sauce, not swinging the club.

    Steve

    @juststeve said:

    @skajaquada77 said:
    Right now the focus of my practice is to hit a small bucket of balls with totally relaxed arms (if I start sweating I’m hitting them wrong) . By relaxed I mean dead, spaghetti arms. This, and the fact that I am trying to do absolutely nothing with my wrists on the downswing is making me find the sweetspot on the clubface more often. I am also trying to focus more on using my arms to swing and trying to avoid turning forward with my shoulders too early, just letting it happen as a result of the arm swing. Even the sound of the shots are different, compressing the ball more i think. If I had to describe the feeling (my feeling!), it’s more like a two-handed backswing in tennis. It is also naturally putting me in the right position in the follow-thru after impact, not coming across to the left so much and going more vertical and over to my lead shoulder.
    It’s always so hard to describe it all in writing. Steve always does a great job, thanks Steve!
    I played Streamsong Blue and the swing held up really good. Lightning fast greens so I had to readjust chipping technique, the 7 iron was rolling like the 5 iron normally does, the PW like a 8iron, etc.

    Totally relaxed below the elbows but it is the arms that power the forward swing. Relaxed, fast, supple muscles sure, but I don't see how spaghetti can power the forward swing. Spaghetti is for clam sauce, not swinging the club.

    Steve

    Spaghetti arms is just a way to describe total relaxation, no tension, and picturing the straight arms are a result of the centrifugal forces from the weight of the club when swinging. Below the elbows, yes. Biceps and triceps obviously will have some tension because they start the move I guess. The best mental picture is when Manuel puts his arms out straight in front of him and moves them left and right back and forth, with wrists just inactive following behind with a lag.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @skajaquada77 said:

    @juststeve said:

    @skajaquada77 said:
    Right now the focus of my practice is to hit a small bucket of balls with totally relaxed arms (if I start sweating I’m hitting them wrong) . By relaxed I mean dead, spaghetti arms. This, and the fact that I am trying to do absolutely nothing with my wrists on the downswing is making me find the sweetspot on the clubface more often. I am also trying to focus more on using my arms to swing and trying to avoid turning forward with my shoulders too early, just letting it happen as a result of the arm swing. Even the sound of the shots are different, compressing the ball more i think. If I had to describe the feeling (my feeling!), it’s more like a two-handed backswing in tennis. It is also naturally putting me in the right position in the follow-thru after impact, not coming across to the left so much and going more vertical and over to my lead shoulder.
    It’s always so hard to describe it all in writing. Steve always does a great job, thanks Steve!
    I played Streamsong Blue and the swing held up really good. Lightning fast greens so I had to readjust chipping technique, the 7 iron was rolling like the 5 iron normally does, the PW like a 8iron, etc.

    Totally relaxed below the elbows but it is the arms that power the forward swing. Relaxed, fast, supple muscles sure, but I don't see how spaghetti can power the forward swing. Spaghetti is for clam sauce, not swinging the club.

    Steve

    @juststeve said:

    @skajaquada77 said:
    Right now the focus of my practice is to hit a small bucket of balls with totally relaxed arms (if I start sweating I’m hitting them wrong) . By relaxed I mean dead, spaghetti arms. This, and the fact that I am trying to do absolutely nothing with my wrists on the downswing is making me find the sweetspot on the clubface more often. I am also trying to focus more on using my arms to swing and trying to avoid turning forward with my shoulders too early, just letting it happen as a result of the arm swing. Even the sound of the shots are different, compressing the ball more i think. If I had to describe the feeling (my feeling!), it’s more like a two-handed backswing in tennis. It is also naturally putting me in the right position in the follow-thru after impact, not coming across to the left so much and going more vertical and over to my lead shoulder.
    It’s always so hard to describe it all in writing. Steve always does a great job, thanks Steve!
    I played Streamsong Blue and the swing held up really good. Lightning fast greens so I had to readjust chipping technique, the 7 iron was rolling like the 5 iron normally does, the PW like a 8iron, etc.

    Totally relaxed below the elbows but it is the arms that power the forward swing. Relaxed, fast, supple muscles sure, but I don't see how spaghetti can power the forward swing. Spaghetti is for clam sauce, not swinging the club.

    Steve

    Spaghetti arms is just a way to describe total relaxation, no tension, and picturing the straight arms are a result of the centrifugal forces from the weight of the club when swinging. Below the elbows, yes. Biceps and triceps obviously will have some tension because they start the move I guess. The best mental picture is when Manuel puts his arms out straight in front of him and moves them left and right back and forth, with wrists just inactive following behind with a lag.

    Manny was demonstrating the absence of tension in the writs. The wrists hinge and unhinge in response to the momentum of the club. That has nothing to do with the arms which are between the elbows and the shoulder joint.

    The arms are active in the forward swing from the beginning of the forward swing to the end of the swing. If you are going to hit the ball anywhere the arms must work hard, both arms at the same time, moving the club in a single continuous motion toward the target. No place for spaghetti arms here.

    Spaghetti arms can work for other swing concepts where the passive arms are moved by the pivot. Taught by some, works for some but it's definitely not what Manny taught.

    Steve

  • wrm2120wrm2120 Members Posts: 52 ✭✭
    edited Jul 24, 2019 3:52pm #1217

    @juststeve

    What do you think of the drill in this video? It's the first part, with Flick. Not the whole 5 minute video.

    Driver: Callaway XR 16
    3 Wood: Taylormade Aeroburner HL
    Irons: Ping S-55 (3-PW)
    Wedges: Ping Glide (54 & 58)
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2
    Ball: Callaway Chromesoft TrueVis
  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I like Flick's stuff a lot. That drill is one of the reasons. Like Manny he wanted the body to respond to the swing and not create the swing.
    Steve

  • The PearlThe Pearl Members Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    That Flick video is just wonderful stuff.

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    John Hayes has a newsletter, every month he sends out tips and drills. This month's newsletter talks about the Feet Together drill we were talking about recently. I hope it helps everybody. Here’s some parts of his email:

    “For your golf game: I believe I read or heard that in Scotland over a century ago that it was common to have new golfers go out in a field and begin to swing and cut the grass and then hit golf balls with their feet close together. Whether true or not this is still a great drill to get the golfer to swing the club freely from the back shoulder to the front shoulder while keeping the body quiet and responsive to the swinging motion. If you try to get your body involved to create power then you will lose your balance with your feet together. If you use your arms to produce speed with the golf club on the forward swing in order to cut the grass then you will not lose your balance even with the feet together provided you do not put tension in the muscles of your arms or legs.
    After you feel how quiet and responsive the body can be while still having the arms produce tremendous velocity with the swinging motion of the golf club then you can have your stance go back to a normal width.
    If you feel the habit of your body trying to work to get power in the swing then go back and hit a few shots in practice with your feet together. This simple and ancient golf drill can be quite a revelation for some golfers.”

  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @juststeve said:
    I like Flick's stuff a lot. That drill is one of the reasons. Like Manny he wanted the body to respond to the swing and not create the swing.
    Steve

    juststeve,

    I am working on using elements of MDLT. Can't swing a driver with my hands in the middle of my body, or use a shorter thumb. or have the grip that high in my hand. But I believe the hands back arms first works well anyway. Did MDLT allow for variations to that extent?

    Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

    Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
    3 and 5 Wood Ping G15
    3-5 Hybrids Cobra Baffler XL
    6-PW Titleist AP1s
    50 degree GW Titleist SM4
    56 degree SW Vokey SM7 
    Ping Anser 6 Milled Putter
  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    Question about the grip. All of the sudden I developed a pain at the base of my thumb, wrist area (top side, not palm). I’m thinking it has to be related to my grip and the position of the thumb on shaft. I place my left (lead) hand with V pointing up towards the center of my chest so its balanced. The thumb goes a little to the right, so it is not on top of the shaft (so like 1pm if 12pm was the top). My question is, do you consciously try to close the gap between the thumb and the side of the bottom of the index finger? Leave a gap?
    Something is obviously putting pressure on that area, may be at the top of the swing or maybe at impact... when I try to make it more comfortable, the V is all over the place and hooks/slices start. So whats correct and whats not?

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not sure what you are tying to do when you say your using elements of Manny's swing, but, if you are having difficulty swinging the club back it probably comes down to your address position. A lot of golfers assume such a contorted position they find it difficult to start moving. Just face the ball, put the club head in the center of your stance and swing from there.

    Steve

    @NoTalentLefty said:

    @juststeve said:
    I like Flick's stuff a lot. That drill is one of the reasons. Like Manny he wanted the body to respond to the swing and not create the swing.
    Steve

    juststeve,

    I am working on using elements of MDLT. Can't swing a driver with my hands in the middle of my body, or use a shorter thumb. or have the grip that high in my hand. But I believe the hands back arms first works well anyway. Did MDLT allow for variations to that extent?

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @skajaquada77 said:
    Question about the grip. All of the sudden I developed a pain at the base of my thumb, wrist area (top side, not palm). I’m thinking it has to be related to my grip and the position of the thumb on shaft. I place my left (lead) hand with V pointing up towards the center of my chest so its balanced. The thumb goes a little to the right, so it is not on top of the shaft (so like 1pm if 12pm was the top). My question is, do you consciously try to close the gap between the thumb and the side of the bottom of the index finger? Leave a gap?
    Something is obviously putting pressure on that area, may be at the top of the swing or maybe at impact... when I try to make it more comfortable, the V is all over the place and hooks/slices start. So whats correct and whats not?

    The picture on the lower right is most like my own left hand position but I don't dwell on exact positions. Neither did Manny so long as the club was swinging back to square at impact. The position that does that varies from golfer to golfer.

    Steve

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    @juststeve said:

    @skajaquada77 said:
    Question about the grip. All of the sudden I developed a pain at the base of my thumb, wrist area (top side, not palm). I’m thinking it has to be related to my grip and the position of the thumb on shaft. I place my left (lead) hand with V pointing up towards the center of my chest so its balanced. The thumb goes a little to the right, so it is not on top of the shaft (so like 1pm if 12pm was the top). My question is, do you consciously try to close the gap between the thumb and the side of the bottom of the index finger? Leave a gap?
    Something is obviously putting pressure on that area, may be at the top of the swing or maybe at impact... when I try to make it more comfortable, the V is all over the place and hooks/slices start. So whats correct and whats not?

    The picture on the lower right is most like my own left hand position but I don't dwell on exact positions. Neither did Manny so long as the club was swinging back to square at impact. The position that does that varies from golfer to golfer.

    Steve

    Thanks Steve. Yeah that’s what I gathered from Manuel’s old videos, everybody is built different. I found a video by Trish that is pretty accurate on how to hold it with specifics. I tried it and it seems that her way the club is way more on the fingers than what Manuel says on his Grip video. I am wondering if it’s all perception, and what it looks to me like a straight V from my eyes standing on top of the ball is in fact weak/strong once the hands settle before starting backswing.

  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @juststeve said:

    I'm not sure what you are tying to do when you say your using elements of Manny's swing, but, if you are having difficulty swinging the club back it probably comes down to your address position. A lot of golfers assume such a contorted position they find it difficult to start moving. Just face the ball, put the club head in the center of your stance and swing from there.

    Steve

    @NoTalentLefty said:

    @juststeve said:
    I like Flick's stuff a lot. That drill is one of the reasons. Like Manny he wanted the body to respond to the swing and not create the swing.
    Steve

    juststeve,

    I am working on using elements of MDLT. Can't swing a driver with my hands in the middle of my body, or use a shorter thumb. or have the grip that high in my hand. But I believe the hands back arms first works well anyway. Did MDLT allow for variations to that extent?

    Steve,
    This is what I’m using from Mdlt book. The hands back and arms swing forward with no problems. Great advise.
    What I am not doing is his grip more in palm on the top hand. Using a longer thumb with my grip more in fingers of the top hand. My hands when using a driver or a fairway wood are not in the center of my body but forward slightly. And the ball is much more toward my front heel.
    Seems that MDLT in his book wanted the clubhead more in the middle of body.

    Did he approve of variants like these with his students?

    Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

    Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
    3 and 5 Wood Ping G15
    3-5 Hybrids Cobra Baffler XL
    6-PW Titleist AP1s
    50 degree GW Titleist SM4
    56 degree SW Vokey SM7 
    Ping Anser 6 Milled Putter
  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @NoTalentLefty said:

    @juststeve said:

    I'm not sure what you are tying to do when you say your using elements of Manny's swing, but, if you are having difficulty swinging the club back it probably comes down to your address position. A lot of golfers assume such a contorted position they find it difficult to start moving. Just face the ball, put the club head in the center of your stance and swing from there.

    Steve

    @NoTalentLefty said:

    @juststeve said:
    I like Flick's stuff a lot. That drill is one of the reasons. Like Manny he wanted the body to respond to the swing and not create the swing.
    Steve

    juststeve,

    I am working on using elements of MDLT. Can't swing a driver with my hands in the middle of my body, or use a shorter thumb. or have the grip that high in my hand. But I believe the hands back arms first works well anyway. Did MDLT allow for variations to that extent?

    Steve,
    This is what I’m using from Mdlt book. The hands back and arms swing forward with no problems. Great advise.
    What I am not doing is his grip more in palm on the top hand. Using a longer thumb with my grip more in fingers of the top hand. My hands when using a driver or a fairway wood are not in the center of my body but forward slightly. And the ball is much more toward my front heel.
    Seems that MDLT in his book wanted the clubhead more in the middle of body.

    Did he approve of variants like these with his students?

    Manny taught us to put the club head in the center of the stance for all shots with all clubs. He expressed several reasons for this preference. 1) With the club in the center of the stance it is easier to be fully balanced. Balance was key for him. 2) Playing all shots from the center of the stance makes it easier to stand in balance with he target. Observe that when you move the ball forward it tends to open the shoulders. 3) With the club head in the center of the stance it is easier to swing it back on a proper arc, back in and up off the ball. 4) It is easier to be consistent if you have a consistent starting place for ll the clubs.

    Now to your precise question, moving he ball up in the stance. I did that at one time, with Manny's tentative approval. His concern was that moving the ball forward caused by shoulders to open with the all consequences listed above. What he had me do, for while, was to move the ball forward but to make a particular effort to keep the shoulders parallel to the target line. For me that meant setting up to the ball and then pulling my right shoulder back a bit.

    I did this for a while and found that I hit my best drives a little bit further, was more inconsistent and lost some accuracy. I've now gone back to starting with the club in the center of my stance.

    Steve

  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @juststeve said:

    @NoTalentLefty said:

    @juststeve said:

    I'm not sure what you are tying to do when you say your using elements of Manny's swing, but, if you are having difficulty swinging the club back it probably comes down to your address position. A lot of golfers assume such a contorted position they find it difficult to start moving. Just face the ball, put the club head in the center of your stance and swing from there.

    Steve

    @NoTalentLefty said:

    @juststeve said:
    I like Flick's stuff a lot. That drill is one of the reasons. Like Manny he wanted the body to respond to the swing and not create the swing.
    Steve

    juststeve,

    I am working on using elements of MDLT. Can't swing a driver with my hands in the middle of my body, or use a shorter thumb. or have the grip that high in my hand. But I believe the hands back arms first works well anyway. Did MDLT allow for variations to that extent?

    Steve,
    This is what I’m using from Mdlt book. The hands back and arms swing forward with no problems. Great advise.
    What I am not doing is his grip more in palm on the top hand. Using a longer thumb with my grip more in fingers of the top hand. My hands when using a driver or a fairway wood are not in the center of my body but forward slightly. And the ball is much more toward my front heel.
    Seems that MDLT in his book wanted the clubhead more in the middle of body.

    Did he approve of variants like these with his students?

    Manny taught us to put the club head in the center of the stance for all shots with all clubs. He expressed several reasons for this preference. 1) With the club in the center of the stance it is easier to be fully balanced. Balance was key for him. 2) Playing all shots from the center of the stance makes it easier to stand in balance with he target. Observe that when you move the ball forward it tends to open the shoulders. 3) With the club head in the center of the stance it is easier to swing it back on a proper arc, back in and up off the ball. 4) It is easier to be consistent if you have a consistent starting place for ll the clubs.

    Now to your precise question, moving he ball up in the stance. I did that at one time, with Manny's tentative approval. His concern was that moving the ball forward caused by shoulders to open with the all consequences listed above. What he had me do, for while, was to move the ball forward but to make a particular effort to keep the shoulders parallel to the target line. For me that meant setting up to the ball and then pulling my right shoulder back a bit.

    I did this for a while and found that I hit my best drives a little bit further, was more inconsistent and lost some accuracy. I've now gone back to starting with the club in the center of my stance.

    Steve

    Steve,
    Thanks for the updates. I had my best day in over a year playing the clubhead in the middle my stance. Tried to get closer to the grip in the MDLT book . But what really got my score down was the chipping section of his book. Shot an 80. Still a work in progress but hoping my next year to be down below 10 HCI.

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  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭
    edited Aug 22, 2019 12:02am #1229

    Congrats on that 80! I agree on short game, I practice chipping PW,7,5,3 and it works magic. My best score so far was a 87 at Streamsong Blue. When I get tired my body starts to try to take over with the old “start the downswing from the ground up”, so knee, hip, etc... the mix of the 2 swing is a disaster for me, shanks. It’s frustrating because it is not off the tee, or around the greens. It’s the 2nd shot/approach shot shank. So hitting a beautiful drive or 3 wood down the middle 250+yards (the driver, not the 3 wood) then shank a 8-6 iron out of bounds sucks. But I am never going back and I am sticking with Manuel’s teachings. Eventually it will be more natural for me and probably better for my body, joints, etc.
    Good luck to you all on your path to a great swing, Manuel’s way.

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Some of you seem to be having grip issues. Here is what Manny told me, and didn't tell me about the grip:

    Did tell me:

    1. Hands in balance with one another, meaning placing your hands on the club so that the palms are facing each other. Manny thought that would promote cooperation between the hands.
    2. Hands in balance with he target which means if you were to open the bottom hand the palm would be perpendicular to he target line. Manny thought this promoted a square face at impact and a propper path through impact.
    3. Grip pressure is an individual thing but we should try to keep it constant throughout the swing.

    Didn't tell me

    How much the top hand grip was in the fingers or the palm. I take that to mean it didn't matter so long as the other principles were observed.

    Steve

  • skajaquada77skajaquada77 Members Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    @juststeve said:
    Some of you seem to be having grip issues. Here is what Manny told me, and didn't tell me about the grip:

    Did tell me:

    1. Hands in balance with one another, meaning placing your hands on the club so that the palms are facing each other. Manny thought that would promote cooperation between the hands.
    2. Hands in balance with he target which means if you were to open the bottom hand the palm would be perpendicular to he target line. Manny thought this promoted a square face at impact and a propper path through impact.
    3. Grip pressure is an individual thing but we should try to keep it constant throughout the swing.

    Didn't tell me

    How much the top hand grip was in the fingers or the palm. I take that to mean it didn't matter so long as the other principles were observed.

    Steve

    Thanks Steve. Trying to stick to it, and yes, definately having grip issues, i can tell because when i switch from iron to let’s say Hybrid, I can’t seem to settle down at address so I keep re-gripping and regripping because I feel the head gets twisted shut/open. I cut a shaft with a grip and I keep it in the house so I can practice grip over and over.

    I recently felt something I didnt before, where both hands were facing each other but the bottom of right thumb/palm area cushion rested on top of left (hand with V pointing up) in a way that was keeping the left had from turning left and shutting the blade, all without pressure on the grip itself. Does that make sense? It seems that now i can swing better and more accurate without the blade twisting at impact. I’m only doing half shots with PW until I feel confident and I know Im on the right path to target without coming over the top.
    So taking it easy until I graduate to the next iron.

    Andres

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