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The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to end


pmo09

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Hopefully the name of this thread isn't breaking any rules, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

Every time there is any type of article regarding Woods, there are always a ton of comments saying he uses steroids/PEDs, or other illegal substances and that is why he has accomplished what he has. Look, nobody knows the real truth except for Tiger, but the key point I want to make is that there is literally no evidence, or hint of evidence to suggest that he has not been clean his entire career.

 

Take a minute to take that all in.

 

Those who argue for PED use tend to make 2 general arguments:

  • He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005
  • His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED abuse

Lets break these down into why they are ridiculous arguments

 

He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005

This is the most common argument, and my favourite to dissect because it shows how little people actually know about fitness, and how desperately they feel the need to discredit others accomplishments to make themselves feel better.

 

First of all, yes, unquestionably Tiger got bigger from his first masters victory in 1997, to about 2005. What people need to understand, is that Tiger went from around 140lbs, to about 180-190lbs in 2005. At 6'1, 140lbs is grossly underweight, and 180-190 is normal. This is not taking into account for an athletic build.

 

Obviously, Tiger likes to workout, a fact that has been well documented over the years. To gain 40 pounds in 8 years is by no means suspicious, especially with a dedicated weight regime. He did not suddenly become big, it was very gradual. Also, Tiger is not at big as the media and TV people say he is. All this "football linebacker" and bodybuilder talk is incredibly exaggerated. 6'1 185lbs is nothing more than athletic. If you saw that walking down the street (and I bet you do every single day), you wouldn't look twice.

 

Adding fuel to the fire is that there is probably no other player on tour that looks like Tiger. Nobody else has lifted for power and explosiveness in the way in which he has. The media tries to play up guys like Dustin Johnson and Gary Woodland as guys who are real muscular players, but in reality are beanpole thin. Then, there was the Camilo Villegagas 'bodybuilder' like talk for a period of 2008-2010. I would be surprised if camilo weighed more than 140lbs soaking wet

 

Secondly, part of human psychology is that people always like to try and discredit the accomplishments of others by blaming it on external factors to make themselves feel better. People see what they want to see, and if that means blaming all the majors on PED use rather than hard work and effort, than so be it. My questions is this - was Tiger on PED's when he was 2 and on national TV for his golf ability? What about when he was 5 and beating 10 year olds in local events? How about when he was winning state championships and US amateurs?

 

His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED Abuse

In short - No, it doesn't.

 

It is absolutely ridiculous to claim a 38 year old, aging athletes injuries are from PED use rather than from wear and tear on his body. Aside from golfing every day for probably almost his entire life, he was known to run 6 miles a day in his 20's, as well as to participate in Navy SEAL training missions (and in Haney's book, he mentions that Tiger's knee issues were caused from a Navy seal kicking him in the knee while off balance). Correlation does not mean causation.

 

He's getting old for his sport. He probably has 10 years ahead of him to be competitive, but like any athlete, he's done a lot to his body. To simply blame it on PED's is not only unfounded, but an insult to any other athlete who has seen performance suffer due to injury in his later years.

 

 

So lets say, for arguments sake, that Tiger did take some sort of PED in his career - what would the benefits be? Specifically speaking about steroids, they promote increased muscle development. Would this make Tiger hit the ball further? Maybe, but guys like Bubba, Mcilroy, and John Daly have shown us all sorts of body types get the job done in regards to distance. Surely they wouldn't help Tiger with his short game, putting, or focus. So what real benefit would that leave? A potential for an increase in distance? That's a really weak argument.

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The arguments I see on the other side of the coin relate to the fact one of the physicians he has been known to see is associated with distributing PEDs. Don't know if it is true, just what I have seen.

http://lannyhgolf.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/is-the-pga-hiding-tiger-woods-link-to-biogenesis-and-steroids/

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Why would there be evidence of Tiger taking PED's? I don't think Tiger would want that kind of publicity.

Why would Tiger take PED's? For performance enhancement. To be better than everyone else. How could a PED enhance a golfers performance? I'm not sure, but a swing coach or trainer may be able to answer that question. No doubt there is a drug out there to help.

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[quote name='pmo09' timestamp='1400647405' post='9337287']
Hopefully the name of this thread isn't breaking any rules, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Every time there is any type of article regarding Woods, there are always a ton of comments saying he uses steroids/PEDs, or other illegal substances and that is why he has accomplished what he has. Look, nobody knows the real truth except for Tiger, but the key point I want to make is that there is [b]literally no evidence, or hint of evidence to suggest that he has not been clean his entire career.[/b]

Take a minute to take that all in.

Those who argue for PED use tend to make 2 general arguments:[list]
[*]He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005
[*]His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED abuse
[/list]
Lets break these down into why they are ridiculous arguments

[u][b]He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005[/b][/u]
This is the most common argument, and my favourite to dissect because it shows how little people actually know about fitness, and how desperately they feel the need to discredit others accomplishments to make themselves feel better.

First of all, yes, unquestionably Tiger got bigger from his first masters victory in 1997, to about 2005. What people need to understand, is that Tiger went from around 140lbs, to about 180-190lbs in 2005. At 6'1, 140lbs is grossly underweight, and 180-190 is normal. This is not taking into account for an athletic build.

Obviously, Tiger likes to workout, a fact that has been well documented over the years. To gain 40 pounds in 8 years is by no means suspicious, especially with a dedicated weight regime. He did not suddenly become big, it was very gradual. Also, Tiger is not at big as the media and TV people say he is. All this "football linebacker" and bodybuilder talk is incredibly exaggerated. 6'1 185lbs is nothing more than athletic. If you saw that walking down the street (and I bet you do every single day), you wouldn't look twice.

Adding fuel to the fire is that there is probably no other player on tour that looks like Tiger. Nobody else has lifted for power and explosiveness in the way in which he has. The media tries to play up guys like Dustin Johnson and Gary Woodland as guys who are real muscular players, but in reality are beanpole thin. Then, there was the Camilo Villegagas 'bodybuilder' like talk for a period of 2008-2010. I would be surprised if camilo weighed more than 140lbs soaking wet

Secondly, part of human psychology is that people always like to try and discredit the accomplishments of others by blaming it on external factors to make themselves feel better. People see what they want to see, and if that means blaming all the majors on PED use rather than hard work and effort, than so be it. My questions is this - was Tiger on PED's when he was 2 and on national TV for his golf ability? What about when he was 5 and beating 10 year olds in local events? How about when he was winning state championships and US amateurs?

[u][b]His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED Abuse[/b][/u]
In short - No, it doesn't.

It is absolutely ridiculous to claim a 38 year old, aging athletes injuries are from PED use rather than from wear and tear on his body. Aside from golfing every day for probably almost his entire life, he was known to run 6 miles a day in his 20's, as well as to participate in Navy SEAL training missions (and in Haney's book, he mentions that Tiger's knee issues were caused from a Navy seal kicking him in the knee while off balance). Correlation does not mean causation.

He's getting old for his sport. He probably has 10 years ahead of him to be competitive, but like any athlete, he's done a lot to his body. To simply blame it on PED's is not only unfounded, but an insult to any other athlete who has seen performance suffer due to injury in his later years.


So lets say, for arguments sake, that Tiger did take some sort of PED in his career - what would the benefits be? Specifically speaking about steroids, they promote increased muscle development. Would this make Tiger hit the ball further? Maybe, but guys like Bubba, Mcilroy, and John Daly have shown us all sorts of body types get the job done in regards to distance. Surely they wouldn't help Tiger with his short game, putting, or focus. So what real benefit would that leave? A potential for an increase in distance? That's a really weak argument.
[/quote]

yes, you see a lot from the commenting end, but not much from the press end. the fact is, you probably won't see a lance armstrong-like fall from tiger if it is proven that he has taken PED's, due to the fact that too many people play the sport, not only at the professional level, but at the amateur level as well.

can we say that as many people cycle on a regular basis? hardly not. so it is harder to be sympathetic to armstrong than it is to woods. same with baseball. you don't have guys in their 50s and 60s playing sandlot games like you do guys teeing it up at their local muni. the usga and pga have too much at stake to protect the integrity of the sport by letting such a negative story about one of its top players, arguably in the history of the sport, compromising that integrity.

and further, it may possibly create a slippery slope. if it came out that woods uses PED's, for sure it didn't happen in a vacuum. others could be implicated as well. the sport could never handle the backlash like other sports could.

i hear the point brought up often, just let the pros use these substances without penalty, knowing that they will ultimately have to suffer the consequences of their use. that will be punishment enough.

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I agree. Tiger looks big, strong etc,.. on tv but he is not that large at all as I have stood within a few feet of him. Tv in itself makes people look larger than they are. He went from massively oversized cloths to fitted cloths, worked out hard and became fit. He is not this huge hulk that people make him out to be.

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As much as you don't want to believe it, friends of mine that have taken that stuff take one look at the way his body was and said there's no way he didn't a few years ago. I don't know what to believe but these guys were non golfers and could care less and were just commenting on it. Who cares if he did or didn't really...isn't Nyquil a PED if it lets me work through a cold the next day? The PED argument with sports is so dumb...these guys have so many ways to do it without getting caught. Has anyone heard of this patch people wear for a day? It's like untraceable unless you are actually caught with it on so they wear it during the game

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[size=4][color=#333333]"Suspicions of PED usage have surrounded Tiger Woods for over a decade. When he admitted in 2010 that Anthony Galea, who has been convicted of illegally smuggling banned PEDs into the United States." Where there's smoke…[/color][/size]
[color=#333333][size=5]Best,[/size][/color]
[size=5][color=#333333]Every smart person who follows sports.[/color][/size]

[color=#333333][size=5]Please disregard the above. [/size][/color]
[color=#333333][size=5]Best, Tiger's Mom[/size][/color]

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[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1400650219' post='9337417']
The arguments I see on the other side of the coin relate to the fact one of the physicians he has been known to see is associated with distributing PEDs. Don't know if it is true, just what I have seen.

[url="http://lannyhgolf.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/is-the-pga-hiding-tiger-woods-link-to-biogenesis-and-steroids/"]http://lannyhgolf.wo...s-and-steroids/[/url]
[/quote]

The guy who runs that blog clearly dislikes Tiger and seems to post any rumor, gossip or headline that potentially cast Tiger in a bad light.

As far as that physicians case, everyone involved have said Tiger did not use PEDs:

[url="http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/6760484/tiger-woods-use-peds-patient-says-lawyer-anthony-galea-assistant"]http://espn.go.com/g...galea-assistant[/url]


Links to other stories seem be nothing more than gossip/speculation.

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[quote name='pmo09' timestamp='1400647405' post='9337287']
Hopefully the name of this thread isn't breaking any rules, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Every time there is any type of article regarding Woods, there are always a ton of comments saying he uses steroids/PEDs, or other illegal substances and that is why he has accomplished what he has. Look, nobody knows the real truth except for Tiger, but the key point I want to make is that there is [b]literally no evidence, or hint of evidence to suggest that he has not been clean his entire career.[/b]

Take a minute to take that all in.

Those who argue for PED use tend to make 2 general arguments:[list]
[*]He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005
[*]His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED abuse
[/list]
Lets break these down into why they are ridiculous arguments

[u][b]He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005[/b][/u]
This is the most common argument, and my favourite to dissect because it shows how little people actually know about fitness, and how desperately they feel the need to discredit others accomplishments to make themselves feel better.

First of all, yes, unquestionably Tiger got bigger from his first masters victory in 1997, to about 2005. What people need to understand, is that Tiger went from around 140lbs, to about 180-190lbs in 2005. At 6'1, 140lbs is grossly underweight, and 180-190 is normal. This is not taking into account for an athletic build.

Obviously, Tiger likes to workout, a fact that has been well documented over the years. To gain 40 pounds in 8 years is by no means suspicious, especially with a dedicated weight regime. He did not suddenly become big, it was very gradual. Also, Tiger is not at big as the media and TV people say he is. All this "football linebacker" and bodybuilder talk is incredibly exaggerated. 6'1 185lbs is nothing more than athletic. If you saw that walking down the street (and I bet you do every single day), you wouldn't look twice.

Adding fuel to the fire is that there is probably no other player on tour that looks like Tiger. Nobody else has lifted for power and explosiveness in the way in which he has. The media tries to play up guys like Dustin Johnson and Gary Woodland as guys who are real muscular players, but in reality are beanpole thin. Then, there was the Camilo Villegagas 'bodybuilder' like talk for a period of 2008-2010. I would be surprised if camilo weighed more than 140lbs soaking wet

Secondly, part of human psychology is that people always like to try and discredit the accomplishments of others by blaming it on external factors to make themselves feel better. People see what they want to see, and if that means blaming all the majors on PED use rather than hard work and effort, than so be it. My questions is this - was Tiger on PED's when he was 2 and on national TV for his golf ability? What about when he was 5 and beating 10 year olds in local events? How about when he was winning state championships and US amateurs?

[u][b]His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED Abuse[/b][/u]
In short - No, it doesn't.

It is absolutely ridiculous to claim a 38 year old, aging athletes injuries are from PED use rather than from wear and tear on his body. Aside from golfing every day for probably almost his entire life, he was known to run 6 miles a day in his 20's, as well as to participate in Navy SEAL training missions (and in Haney's book, he mentions that Tiger's knee issues were caused from a Navy seal kicking him in the knee while off balance). Correlation does not mean causation.

He's getting old for his sport. He probably has 10 years ahead of him to be competitive, but like any athlete, he's done a lot to his body. To simply blame it on PED's is not only unfounded, but an insult to any other athlete who has seen performance suffer due to injury in his later years.


So lets say, for arguments sake, that Tiger did take some sort of PED in his career - what would the benefits be? Specifically speaking about steroids, they promote increased muscle development. Would this make Tiger hit the ball further? Maybe, but guys like Bubba, Mcilroy, and John Daly have shown us all sorts of body types get the job done in regards to distance. Surely they wouldn't help Tiger with his short game, putting, or focus. So what real benefit would that leave? A potential for an increase in distance? That's a really weak argument.
[/quote]

If people already dislike Tiger, you're not going to convince them otherwise.

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Galea is the elephant in the room. He worked with TW, he has been done for HGH trafficking.

Its like lance and Ferrari
Like Bonds ande Balco
Like A-rod and the florida lab

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[quote name='jubilee_links' timestamp='1400674144' post='9338141']
Galea is the elephant in the room. He worked with TW, he has been done for HGH trafficking.

Its like lance and Ferrari
Like Bonds ande Balco
Like A-rod and the florida lab
[/quote]
This. Of course he juiced.

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[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1400671081' post='9337935']
I think it will be too damaging to the tour for it to come out if it were true. Huge controversies on wins and stripped titles...they would do everything to avoid that.
[/quote]

Agreed.. We may never know the truth.. Circumstantial evidence can be shown for both sides, from bulking up, to which doctors he's seen.. etc etc.. However, I think one thing is sure, there is NO WAY the PGA tour or golf media would stand by without trying to silence any truthful evidence that would showed he did.. The fallout from such a scandel would be worse then Lance Armstrongs..

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I would have thought any PED steroid usage was more pointed at recovering from injuries quicker regardless if they came from golf or working out. How he would ever get caught is beyond me as the PGA drug testing is a joke. Most of the cases are a result of the golfer turning himself in either by accident or asking about a drug (blood pressure medication deer antler spray). That is also one of the reasons that the PGA doesn't want the data coughed up in the VJ lawsuit. If lance Armstrong could stay ahead of a known drug abuse sport like cycling how hard would it be to avoid the moronic PGA testing regime. Obviously drugs like ambien must be allowed as that seemed to be a favorite of tiger who had trouble sleeping. Everything he did the night of the escalade incident were typical of someone in an ambient fog. Luckily for him it was a gated community with their own police. Remember how long it took to visit with the real police. HHHMMMM. Eventually we will know. Wonder what he is taking for the discomfort of the back surgery and when he will stop. Only has discomfort at the incision site.... RIGHT...

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Why would you bother starting another thread just to be antagonized by the Tiger haters here ?? even with NO absolute proof they still accuse , and will always do so

you are wasting your time and breathe trying to get them to see the light , I for the most part quit reading TW threads because they are just another invitation for those who

hate to pile more on versus being positive , but the people who moderate this place ask questions about being negative but continue to let TW get trashed for no truly good

reason , but that's okay

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I am not sure "why it has to end." Because he's Tiger? There is no evidence.... yet. If there is no evidence in a murder trial should speculation end as to who did it? I am sure I will get a few people who say "that's not the same." Sure it's not on paper... but the principal of the argument is.

But thank you for doing our thinking for us. I mean, no one speculated that his marriage was in trouble and then.......boom.... it happened.

Tiger is smart. Tiger is VERY private.

Did you ever think that come 2008 when they started to test for drugs that he stopped and hit the gym HARD to keep up his physique? Hmmmmm that's not an option to you is it? If he stopped with the PED's and all of sudden went back to his Am weight there would be more than speculation. The only way to keep that hidden is to crush the gym as much as he crushed the range.

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Personally, I don't know if he used anything or not, so I'm not going to speculate. He may have. He may be clean. No sense in rehashing what both sides are saying.

But if you go by his body type alone now vs. 20 year old Tiger, there is nothing to suggest PED usage to me. If you know how to diet and train(or can afford to pay someone who does, trainers, etc), gaining that amount of muscle is not really that difficult. I find it strange how some people talk about him like he's built the body of a Greek god. I mean the guy is in good shape, but there's a lot of other pro golfers who sport an ever better athletic build than Tiger IMO. I've worked in gyms for 10+ years training everyone from college athletes to 80 year olds. I've seen guys go from 160lbs soaking wet, to 200+ clean in just a few years. I've also seen guys busting their rear ends for years with literally NO change in size or composition. If you know how to lift and push yourself safely, have an appropriate program & diet in place for your goals, and have the work ethic to implement that program, results aren't as far fetched as they seem to some.

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[quote name='Tiger512' timestamp='1400667671' post='9337781']
After he won his last major (June 2008) he had knee surgery and took time off. It was also a month before the PGA started the drug testing, 7/08. Since then Tiger hasn't won a major.
[/quote]

And yet he's won more than anyone else on tour? I guess they really cracked down on the Major only PEDs he's been popping.

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Starting a thread about the topic is always a good way to stop discussion of said topic.

:taunt:

Are we talking about golf or ...............

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNU3X46GoGg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNU3X46GoGg[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C74UQoPymYw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C74UQoPymYw[/url]

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      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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