Kohler, Wisconsin

Would any of the area courses compare/be better than the (2) Courses at Blackwolf Run, Whistling Straits and the Irish Course? Just wondering whether those 4 connected with the main resort are the top 4.

If those are indeed the top 4, what would be #5 & #6 in the area?

Thanks

Erin Hills for sure. Others will say the Bull at Pinehurst Farms but I wasn't all that impressed with it.

Erin Hills is awesome but it's a good hour from Kohler. Erin Hills is on par with basically everything in Kohler.

We substititued a round at the Meadow course at BWR with EH. I have heard the meadow course is so-so. While I haven't played anything other than the River course, irish and straits, I would find it hard to believe anything else there is on par with them. Those 3 courses are excellent (and are rated in the Top 100 courses in the US). I have heard good things about The Bull but didn't play it.

The Irish course at WS really surprised. I wasn't expecting it to be as good as it was. It felt like a much more playable version of the Straits course. Not nearly as punishing, still a very good layout, was in great shape, and overall was just a fun track to play.

[quote name='ssf301' timestamp='1405947227' post='9747653']
Would any of the area courses compare/be better than the (2) Courses at Blackwolf Run, Whistling Straits and the Irish Course? Just wondering whether those 4 connected with the main resort are the top 4.

If those are indeed the top 4, what would be #5 & #6 in the area?

Thanks
[/quote]

I have played Blackwolf Run and the Straits course at Whistling Straits....(have not played the Irish). Of the courses you listed, I would rate Whistling Straits far and away the better course, followed by BWR River and then BWR Meadow Valley.

But I would rate Erin Hills right up there with Whistling Straits. As far as enjoyment of the round, I would rate it just below Whistling Straits....as for quality of design, I would rate it just above WS. But Erin Hills is about 90 minutes southwest of the other courses.

Have not played The Bull at Pinehurst Farms, but hope to play it next summer when I go up again.

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405951035' post='9748091']

The Irish course at WS really surprised. I wasn't expecting it to be as good as it was. It felt like a much more playable version of the Straits course. Not nearly as punishing, still a very good layout, was in great shape, and overall was just a fun track to play.
[/quote]

SB is spot on with his comments on the Irish Course. In the grand scheme of the Kohler courses, it is a gem just lacking the lake front elements. You will enjoy a round there. With that said, Erin Hills is also a fantastic course that is going to host the 2017 US Open. There's something to be said for testing yourself in that environment.

The Straits is worth playing once, but the Irish is my favorite between the two. Skip the Meadow. Really isn't worth the money.

In the area as well is The Bull (Sheboygan Falls) and as others have said, Erin Hills in Hartland. Bit of a drive, but well worth it.

[quote name='CactusGolf' timestamp='1405958064' post='9749239']
The Straits is worth playing once, but the Irish is my favorite between the two. Skip the Meadow. Really isn't worth the money.

In the area as well is The Bull (Sheboygan Falls) and as others have said, Erin Hills in Hartland. Bit of a drive, but well worth it.
[/quote]

Yeah I mean quite honestly, I enjoyed my round at Irish as much or more than the round at Straits. Testing my game at Straits was fun. The views were incredible. Knowing the history of the course and all that stuff added to the enjoyment. But the Straits course, especially when the wind is blowing (was pretty steady at 15 mph all day with some pretty heavy gusts), makes it very very hard for a amaetuer to play. I am a lower cap (5 index), play a lot of very tough courses (home course is a 137 slope) and Straits was really more than I can handle. Irish was just right for my game. It's more generous, theres actual rough (Straits if you miss the fairway you are basically in the fescue or a waste bunker) and everything is less severly sloped. Still a tough track, but, is a lot more playable for ams. I remember walking away from Straits feeling like I got repetitively punched in the nuts for 18 holes.

For what it's worth. I had the most fun on the Irish course (partly because I played pretty well). I would rate the courses Straits, Irish then The River course at BWR. I liked the River course a lot but it has some very oddly designed holes. I didn't find it nearly as difficult as the rating suggests though.

Erin Hills is a great course if you are up for the drive. If you play it, use a caddy. There are a lot of blind tee shots. On many holes, without a caddy, I would have aimed at one green from the tee only to find out at my ball that the hole was going the other direction. That course maybe the course which using a caddy was most benefical to me that I have played.

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405964135' post='9750363']
[quote name='CactusGolf' timestamp='1405958064' post='9749239']
The Straits is worth playing once, but the Irish is my favorite between the two. Skip the Meadow. Really isn't worth the money.

In the area as well is The Bull (Sheboygan Falls) and as others have said, Erin Hills in Hartland. Bit of a drive, but well worth it.
[/quote]
I remember walking away from Straits feeling like I got repetitively punched in the nuts for 18 holes.

[/quote]Totally agree with that. Especially that tee shot on 18 and even more so the 2nd shot into the green!

I caddied at a private club in Milwaukee and may of the guys I worked with caddied at the Straits and Erin while they were in college (and after while they were job hunting). Many of them preferred the Irish over the Straits if they were given a choice between the two.

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405964135' post='9750363']
[quote name='CactusGolf' timestamp='1405958064' post='9749239']
The Straits is worth playing once, but the Irish is my favorite between the two. Skip the Meadow. Really isn't worth the money.

In the area as well is The Bull (Sheboygan Falls) and as others have said, Erin Hills in Hartland. Bit of a drive, but well worth it.
[/quote]

[b]Yeah I mean quite honestly, I enjoyed my round at Irish as much or more than the round at Straits. Testing my game at Straits was fun. The views were incredible. Knowing the history of the course and all that stuff added to the enjoyment. But the Straits course, especially when the wind is blowing (was pretty steady at 15 mph all day with some pretty heavy gusts), makes it very very hard for a amateur to play. I am a lower cap (5 index), play a lot of very tough courses (home course is a 137 slope) and Straits was really more than I can handle. [/b] Irish was just right for my game. It's more generous, theres actual rough (Straits if you miss the fairway you are basically in the fescue or a waste bunker) and everything is less severly sloped. Still a tough track, but, is a lot more playable for ams. I remember walking away from Straits feeling like I got repetitively punched in the nuts for 18 holes.

For what it's worth. I had the most fun on the Irish course (partly because I played pretty well). I would rate the courses Straits, Irish then The River course at BWR. I liked the River course a lot but it has some very oddly designed holes. I didn't find it nearly as difficult as the rating suggests though.

Erin Hills is a great course if you are up for the drive. If you play it, use a caddy. There are a lot of blind tee shots. On many holes, without a caddy, I would have aimed at one green from the tee only to find out at my ball that the hole was going the other direction. That course maybe the course which using a caddy was most benefical to me that I have played.
[/quote]

Those are the exact reasons why, imo, the Straits [b]is [/b]that much better than the Irish course.

I'm guessing that your opinion may have been different had your rounds been reversed and you had played better on the Straits than Irish. JAT.

Thanks guys! I've actually played the (4) main courses before and have similar sentiments to several others. I think the Irish Course is one of my all time favorite tracks. My main concern was whether to try to pick up something else this time around. It sounds like Erin Hills is definitely one to look into when I get back up there.

I've played around 20 times at Kohler, and here is how I view each of them:

The Straits - Clearly first in my book, not just in Wisconsin, but anywhere.
The River - Beautiful layout, with many interesting holes. Not nearly as difficult as the rating suggests either.
Erin Hills - A brutal track, probably second to the Straits in difficulty.
The Irish - A favorite in Wisconsin. Like others have said, it's the more playable version of the Straits minus the lake views on every hole.
The Meadows - A great condition course with 10 great holes. In my opinion, the Meadows back nine is the best nine holes in Wisconsin. Unfortunately, the front nine is not a great lay out.

That is how I would rank the courses you are considering. If you are considering the Bull, I'd recommend to skip it - just an over priced lay out due to the designers signature.

[quote name='cdnrockies' timestamp='1405970599' post='9751707']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405964135' post='9750363']
[quote name='CactusGolf' timestamp='1405958064' post='9749239']
The Straits is worth playing once, but the Irish is my favorite between the two. Skip the Meadow. Really isn't worth the money.

In the area as well is The Bull (Sheboygan Falls) and as others have said, Erin Hills in Hartland. Bit of a drive, but well worth it.
[/quote]

[b]Yeah I mean quite honestly, I enjoyed my round at Irish as much or more than the round at Straits. Testing my game at Straits was fun. The views were incredible. Knowing the history of the course and all that stuff added to the enjoyment. But the Straits course, especially when the wind is blowing (was pretty steady at 15 mph all day with some pretty heavy gusts), makes it very very hard for a amateur to play. I am a lower cap (5 index), play a lot of very tough courses (home course is a 137 slope) and Straits was really more than I can handle. [/b] Irish was just right for my game. It's more generous, theres actual rough (Straits if you miss the fairway you are basically in the fescue or a waste bunker) and everything is less severly sloped. Still a tough track, but, is a lot more playable for ams. I remember walking away from Straits feeling like I got repetitively punched in the nuts for 18 holes.

For what it's worth. I had the most fun on the Irish course (partly because I played pretty well). I would rate the courses Straits, Irish then The River course at BWR. I liked the River course a lot but it has some very oddly designed holes. I didn't find it nearly as difficult as the rating suggests though.

Erin Hills is a great course if you are up for the drive. If you play it, use a caddy. There are a lot of blind tee shots. On many holes, without a caddy, I would have aimed at one green from the tee only to find out at my ball that the hole was going the other direction. That course maybe the course which using a caddy was most benefical to me that I have played.
[/quote]

Those are the exact reasons why, imo, the Straits [b]is [/b]that much better than the Irish course.

I'm guessing that your opinion may have been different had your rounds been reversed and you had played better on the Straits than Irish. JAT.
[/quote]

The thing is, there's no possibility of my scores being flipped... Straits is just that hard. Don't get me wrong, I think Straits is a great course, I just think its too much course for 99% of the golfers. The Irish, on the other hand, is a tame version of Straits. But make no mistake, I never said Irish was better than Straits. I said the Irish track is more fun. There's a big differance there.

Straits is a true marvel. It's a beautiful course with a ton of history. It's a very real test of golf and a truly humbling course to play. It's great. I just didn't enjoy playing it as much as other courses. At Straits you can be punished for hitting good shots. There are no easy shots on the entire course, even when you execute your tee shots or approach shots. I've never been a huge fan of courses which don't reward you for executing good shots.

Erin Hills is a good example of a links course which rewards good shots and severely punishes bad shots. On Straits I just felt if you were in the middle of the fairway, sure it's easier than in the fescue or waste area, but it's not really setting you up for a easier next shot. Which is why I feel the course is simply more course than amatuers (unless low caps) can really handle.

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405973417' post='9752191']
[quote name='cdnrockies' timestamp='1405970599' post='9751707']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405964135' post='9750363']
[quote name='CactusGolf' timestamp='1405958064' post='9749239']
The Straits is worth playing once, but the Irish is my favorite between the two. Skip the Meadow. Really isn't worth the money.

In the area as well is The Bull (Sheboygan Falls) and as others have said, Erin Hills in Hartland. Bit of a drive, but well worth it.
[/quote]

[b]Yeah I mean quite honestly, I enjoyed my round at Irish as much or more than the round at Straits. Testing my game at Straits was fun. The views were incredible. Knowing the history of the course and all that stuff added to the enjoyment. But the Straits course, especially when the wind is blowing (was pretty steady at 15 mph all day with some pretty heavy gusts), makes it very very hard for a amateur to play. I am a lower cap (5 index), play a lot of very tough courses (home course is a 137 slope) and Straits was really more than I can handle. [/b] Irish was just right for my game. It's more generous, theres actual rough (Straits if you miss the fairway you are basically in the fescue or a waste bunker) and everything is less severly sloped. Still a tough track, but, is a lot more playable for ams. I remember walking away from Straits feeling like I got repetitively punched in the nuts for 18 holes.

For what it's worth. I had the most fun on the Irish course (partly because I played pretty well). I would rate the courses Straits, Irish then The River course at BWR. I liked the River course a lot but it has some very oddly designed holes. I didn't find it nearly as difficult as the rating suggests though.

Erin Hills is a great course if you are up for the drive. If you play it, use a caddy. There are a lot of blind tee shots. On many holes, without a caddy, I would have aimed at one green from the tee only to find out at my ball that the hole was going the other direction. That course maybe the course which using a caddy was most benefical to me that I have played.
[/quote]

Those are the exact reasons why, imo, the Straits [b]is [/b]that much better than the Irish course.

I'm guessing that your opinion may have been different had your rounds been reversed and you had played better on the Straits than Irish. JAT.
[/quote]

The thing is, there's no possibility of my scores being flipped... Straits is just that hard. Don't get me wrong, I think Straits is a great course, I just think its too much course for 99% of the golfers. The Irish, on the other hand, is a tame version of Straits. But make no mistake, I never said Irish was better than Straits. I said the Irish track is more fun. There's a big differance there.

Straits is a true marvel. It's a beautiful course with a ton of history. It's a very real test of golf and a truly humbling course to play. It's great. I just didn't enjoy playing it as much as other courses. At Straits you can be punished for hitting good shots. There are no easy shots on the entire course, even when you execute your tee shots or approach shots. I've never been a huge fan of courses which don't reward you for executing good shots.

Erin Hills is a good example of a links course which rewards good shots and severely punishes bad shots. On Straits I just felt if you were in the middle of the fairway, sure it's easier than in the fescue or waste area, but it's not really setting you up for a easier next shot. Which is why I feel the course is simply more course than amatuers (unless low caps) can really handle.
[/quote]

Fair enough, I'm not trying to diminish your experience or discount your opinion at all. We all perceive things through our own eyes.

For me, the experience was the opposite. I played better on the Straits than the Irish. Maybe I was more focused. Maybe it was that I was trying harder. Maybe it was that my wife only played with me on the Irish... lol.

My caddie was awesome and I just felt very happy and relaxed just to be out on the Straits, even though, as you pointed out, it definitely makes you work. Fwiw, I was a 7 when I played and by no means shot the lights out, but thought that it was playable. Hard but one of the most enjoyable rounds of my life. The only courses that compare that I have had the pleasure of playing, for myself, are the tracks at Bandon. I got rained out at EH and unfortunately only got to walk around a bit and look at a few holes.

I've played all of the above and if I could only have one it would be Erin Hills. That said, I've played Erin Hills on a 90 degree muggy August day and would have loved the feel of the cooler air coming off the lake at The Straits!

While I don't expect it to be the caliber of Erin Hills or the Kohler courses I am anxious to get out on the newly refurbished Sentry World course.

Phred

[quote name='cdnrockies' timestamp='1405975587' post='9752571']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405973417' post='9752191']
[quote name='cdnrockies' timestamp='1405970599' post='9751707']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405964135' post='9750363']
[quote name='CactusGolf' timestamp='1405958064' post='9749239']
The Straits is worth playing once, but the Irish is my favorite between the two. Skip the Meadow. Really isn't worth the money.

In the area as well is The Bull (Sheboygan Falls) and as others have said, Erin Hills in Hartland. Bit of a drive, but well worth it.
[/quote]

[b]Yeah I mean quite honestly, I enjoyed my round at Irish as much or more than the round at Straits. Testing my game at Straits was fun. The views were incredible. Knowing the history of the course and all that stuff added to the enjoyment. But the Straits course, especially when the wind is blowing (was pretty steady at 15 mph all day with some pretty heavy gusts), makes it very very hard for a amateur to play. I am a lower cap (5 index), play a lot of very tough courses (home course is a 137 slope) and Straits was really more than I can handle. [/b] Irish was just right for my game. It's more generous, theres actual rough (Straits if you miss the fairway you are basically in the fescue or a waste bunker) and everything is less severly sloped. Still a tough track, but, is a lot more playable for ams. I remember walking away from Straits feeling like I got repetitively punched in the nuts for 18 holes.

For what it's worth. I had the most fun on the Irish course (partly because I played pretty well). I would rate the courses Straits, Irish then The River course at BWR. I liked the River course a lot but it has some very oddly designed holes. I didn't find it nearly as difficult as the rating suggests though.

Erin Hills is a great course if you are up for the drive. If you play it, use a caddy. There are a lot of blind tee shots. On many holes, without a caddy, I would have aimed at one green from the tee only to find out at my ball that the hole was going the other direction. That course maybe the course which using a caddy was most benefical to me that I have played.
[/quote]

Those are the exact reasons why, imo, the Straits [b]is [/b]that much better than the Irish course.

I'm guessing that your opinion may have been different had your rounds been reversed and you had played better on the Straits than Irish. JAT.
[/quote]

The thing is, there's no possibility of my scores being flipped... Straits is just that hard. Don't get me wrong, I think Straits is a great course, I just think its too much course for 99% of the golfers. The Irish, on the other hand, is a tame version of Straits. But make no mistake, I never said Irish was better than Straits. I said the Irish track is more fun. There's a big differance there.

Straits is a true marvel. It's a beautiful course with a ton of history. It's a very real test of golf and a truly humbling course to play. It's great. I just didn't enjoy playing it as much as other courses. At Straits you can be punished for hitting good shots. There are no easy shots on the entire course, even when you execute your tee shots or approach shots. I've never been a huge fan of courses which don't reward you for executing good shots.

Erin Hills is a good example of a links course which rewards good shots and severely punishes bad shots. On Straits I just felt if you were in the middle of the fairway, sure it's easier than in the fescue or waste area, but it's not really setting you up for a easier next shot. Which is why I feel the course is simply more course than amatuers (unless low caps) can really handle.
[/quote]

Fair enough, I'm not trying to diminish your experience or discount your opinion at all. We all perceive things through our own eyes.

For me, the experience was the opposite. I played better on the Straits than the Irish. Maybe I was more focused. Maybe it was that I was trying harder. Maybe it was that my wife only played with me on the Irish... lol.

My caddie was awesome and I just felt very happy and relaxed just to be out on the Straits, even though, as you pointed out, it definitely makes you work. Fwiw, I was a 7 when I played and by no means shot the lights out, but thought that it was playable. Hard but one of the most enjoyable rounds of my life. The only courses that compare that I have had the pleasure of playing, for myself, are the tracks at Bandon. I got rained out at EH and unfortunately only got to walk around a bit and look at a few holes.
[/quote]

Haha makes sense. The other thing I have found about those large body of water lined courses is the wind plays a large affect on the perceived playability of the courses. The wind, especially on the back 9 at Straits was howling. If I recall, 15, 16 and 17 were all dead into the wind which was at minimum 15 mph. From the Green tees, 17 was playing 205 yds to the pin. I hit a hard 5 wood 240 club) and was short, left of the green down by the water. It was insane. Actually led to my favorite moment of the day. My caddy handed me a lob wedge and said 'I can't climb down there with you, it's too steep with a bag but good luck'. I found my ball resting about 18 inches from the rocks on the shore of Lake Michigan and was staring back up at a good 50 feet of solid greenside wall lol. Opened the face on a 60*, full swing and put it 10 feet. Caddy said it was the best shot he had ever seen from down there.

But back to the wind comment, when I played Erin hills it was pretty still. I thought Erin hills really wasn't crazy difficult. Had a great caddy who pointed me in the right direction. The greens at EH were the best of the four courses up there we played. Super quick, really smooth and very true. I shot 83 that day and felt pretty solid about it. Took some unplayable lies from the crap but other than that hit it well. Others on here believe when the wind is blowing it's the toughest of the bunch.

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405983345' post='9753529'] Haha makes sense. The other thing I have found about those large body of water lined courses is the wind plays a large affect on the perceived playability of the courses. The wind, especially on the back 9 at Straits was howling. If I recall, 15, 16 and 17 were all dead into the wind which was at minimum 15 mph. From the Green tees, 17 was playing 205 yds to the pin. I hit a hard 5 wood 240 club) and was short, left of the green down by the water. It was insane. Actually led to my favorite moment of the day. My caddy handed me a lob wedge and said 'I can't climb down there with you, it's too steep with a bag but good luck'. I found my ball resting about 18 inches from the rocks on the shore of Lake Michigan and was staring back up at a good 50 feet of solid greenside wall lol. Opened the face on a 60*, full swing and put it 10 feet. Caddy said it was the best shot he had ever seen from down there. But back to the wind comment, when I played Erin hills it was pretty still. I thought Erin hills really wasn't crazy difficult. Had a great caddy who pointed me in the right direction. The greens at EH were the best of the four courses up there we played. Super quick, really smooth and very true. I shot 83 that day and felt pretty solid about it. Took some unplayable lies from the crap but other than that hit it well. Others on here believe when the wind is blowing it's the toughest of the bunch. [/quote]

Wow! That sounds like an incredible shot!

Great hole 17. Wind was blowing hard off of the lake. Carry was 225. Caddie said aim it in the lake and trust it. I didn't. Made double... lol.

[quote name='Phreddy' timestamp='1405978818' post='9752997']
I've played all of the above and if I could only have one it would be Erin Hills. That said, I've played Erin Hills on a 90 degree muggy August day and would have loved the feel of the cooler air coming off the lake at The Straits!

While I don't expect it to be the caliber of Erin Hills or the Kohler courses I am anxious to get out on the newly refurbished Sentry World course.

Phred
[/quote]

Have been following their blog as I'm equally looking forward to playing there!

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1405986590' post='9753863']
[quote name='Phreddy' timestamp='1405978818' post='9752997']
I've played all of the above and if I could only have one it would be Erin Hills. That said, I've played Erin Hills on a 90 degree muggy August day and would have loved the feel of the cooler air coming off the lake at The Straits!

While I don't expect it to be the caliber of Erin Hills or the Kohler courses I am anxious to get out on the newly refurbished Sentry World course.

Phred
[/quote]

Have been following their blog as I'm equally looking forward to playing there!
[/quote]Geez, I haven't thought about that place in years! Its probably been a good 10 years since I've played there.

Did this trip last year and if I could do it all over again I'd have added Erin Hills. We only did Straits and BWR River - a great experience, but to have been so close to Erin Hills and turned back was a mistake I think...

If I remember correctly, caddies prefer the Irish because the can take a cart, as opposed to walking the course.

I was lucky enough to play WS with little wind. From the green tees, 17 played 185 to the front flag, and probably played only 10 yards longer bc of the wind.

Actually ended up shooting around my handicap, pretty good considering the toughness of the course.

[quote name='cdnrockies' timestamp='1405985465' post='9753737']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405983345' post='9753529'] Lots of stuff you said. [/quote]

Lots of stuff you said
[/quote]

You guys are really making me want to go back to Kohler after our first visit there last year!
IMHO the Straits is one of the finest courses in America and if someone wanted to put it #1 on their list of public tracks I would feel they were wholly entitled to that opinion without argument.

It is a tough track, but if you are driving the ball well there is a score to be had. Be offline or in the rough, and as you say SB, then it's going to be something a golfer isn't typically presented with. I would say if someone doesn't break 90 now and again on their home course, then yes they likely could get killed at the Straits. That said I don't think it is unfair or penal in the way something like Sawgrass can be.

The first round there I was playing well and needed a birdie on 18 (yes yes I know, LOL) to shoot 79. Tried to smoke it. Hit a hard hook over the ledge into the rough. Hacked up into the bunker at the corner of the fairway. Then hit a hybrid to 30 feet from 190yds. The caddie was dumbfounded and for the second time during the round said - I'd never seen that before. Well I ended up two putting for an 81, but still I will always remember that.
So yes I will really like it. We actually played it again after playing a morning round on the Irish the following day. One of the best collections of par 3's I've seen anywhere.

Then with the inland courses, I think BWR River is one of my favorite inland courses. Such interesting and challenging holes.Like the Straits though, the Green tees were hoas far back as this short knocker needed to go. I really enjoyed those two holes (short par 4, long par 3) right along the river. That said I could see how some players wouldn't even have a way to play them in par. Back nine at the Meadows course was fantastic. Too bad you have to play 6 or 7 largely ho-hum holes to get to it.

OP: You can do worse than to just play American Club resort courses over and over. You'll have a fantastic time