How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to pos

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  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members  7638WRX Points: 453Posts: 7,638 Titanium Tees
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    outgolfing wrote:

    Ri_Redneck wrote:

    outgolfing wrote:


    Wow, I've been on this site for a long time and never watched that video...eye opening.



    And now I have a question my mind is not working through.



    I have a 8.5 Ping G400. I sole the club on every shot so I now understand it does not matter what loft I set it at for the sake of loft but when I go to the small + or the large + and still sole it how much am I changing the lie angle to? (RH adapter). Also am I right that by "adding loft" and soling the club I am closing the face angle?




    This video explains what you are asking.



    [url=" Adjustment process.[/url]



    BTW, just cause you sole your club every time, it doesn't mean you can't AIM your club.



    BT




    Interesting, so regardless of either going “up” or “down” in loft on the hosel settings you are decreasing lie angle on both.




    Depends on the OEM. Some have multiple cogs that allow you to offset some of that.
    Posted:
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    Taylormade P790 2 UDI w/ DG 105R or M3 19* 5W w/ BB S+ 70
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  • JRSJRS Members  988WRX Points: 110Posts: 988 Golden Tee
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    outgolfing wrote:


    Interesting, so regardless of either going "up" or "down" in loft on the hosel settings you are decreasing lie angle on both.






    the zero position is the most upright. little plus and little minus are the the most flat. big plus and big minus are more upright again but not quite as upright as zero. the reason for the odd arrangement is their choice of 5 hosel settings. if you want to know why you'll have to read the thread from the start.
    Posted:
  • Army_golferArmy_golfer ClubWRX  221WRX Points: 70Handicap: 4Posts: 221 ClubWRX
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    Great video.. I sent this out to the MGA at my club. They're all even more confused now! Easy money for me!!!

    Posted:
    Ping G410 LST 9* - HZRDUS 60 Yellow Smoke 6.0
    TM SIM MAX Rocket 14* - HZRDUS 70 Yellow Smoke 6.0
    Titleist 816 H1 17* - EvenFlow Blue 85 6.0
    Titleist 818 H1 21* - EvenFlow Blue 85 6.0
    Titleist 818 H1 23* - EvenFlow Black 85 6.0
    Titleist C16 6-GW - DG Pro S300
    Vokey All Black SM7  54*, 58*
    TM Spider X Navy White 34"
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  • leopardshrubsleopardshrubs Members  2WRX Points: 2Handicap: 8Posts: 2 Starters
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    Thank you kindly for this. #enlightened

    Posted:
  • wkuo3wkuo3 RELEASE Members  4370WRX Points: 386Posts: 4,370 Titanium Tees
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    I can watch this video from time to time .
    Although nothing is 100% perfect, but this video obviously is one of the best in explaining the modern day "adjustable hosel" to the average golfers . Where in the old days we had to grip the driver differently to create a different ball flight. Or change the swing path for the same reason, which both had inconsistent results.
    I still set my "adjustable" hosel at standard position most of the time, for the same reason Tom mentioned .
    Placing the club face square at address after adjustment is made , felt strange with hands position in relationship to the shaft. Hence I kept it mostly at the std position.
    If the OEM offer an option for glued in hosel as an alternative at less cost, I'd give it my vote.

    Posted:
  • cutchemist42cutchemist42 Members  127WRX Points: 38Handicap: 19.9Posts: 127 Fairways
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    So is there a reason the companies preferred letting people solve it open/closed vs twisting the shaft to square the club? That's how you get the stated loft right, by twisting the shaft while holding the shaft straight?

    I play the 2017 M2 if it matters.

    Posted:
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  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members  7638WRX Points: 453Posts: 7,638 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @cutchemist42 said:

    So is there a reason the companies preferred letting people solve it open/closed vs twisting the shaft to square the club? That's how you get the stated loft right, by twisting the shaft while holding the shaft straight?

    I play the 2017 M2 if it matters.

    Squaring the face or returning it to the original position would probably be a more appropriate term...but yes.

    Why? Marketing? Maybe the OEMs observed people's natural use of the clubs and noticed they were more prone to aligning the club by what they saw with their eyes when it didn't look right to them? Plenty of guesses can be made...no one has really ever came out and stated an answer.

    Posted:
    TM M3 440 w/ Speeder Evo II 6.1 TS
    TM M4 13.5 "Small Version"  w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 2 UDI w/ DG 105R or M3 19* 5W w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 3 Iron w/ DG AMT White R300
    4-PW Nike VR Pro MBs w/ DG AMT White R300
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • Bogey2BirdieBogey2Birdie West Palm BeachMembers  54WRX Points: 44Handicap: 5Posts: 54 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Jun 30, 2019 #459

    Great info Tom!..A bendable hosel is just what I need! For years I hold my shaft flatter & back around 4pm as it sets, to cheat a bit more open face angle. I would like a adjustable hosel... that when I increase loft... the face angle opens.

    Posted:
    Post edited by Bogey2Birdie on

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  • SeaczepSeaczep NYCMembers  3WRX Points: 2Handicap: 15Posts: 3 Starters
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    Appreciate this and the ensuing conversation guys.

    Posted:
  • ousuxndallasousuxndallas DFWMembers  147WRX Points: 57Handicap: 7Posts: 147 Fairways
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    All I know is I hit 10 drives from a "neutral" position on a TM M5, then 10 drives from the +1* position. The +1* position drives all launched higher. So, for me, the loft did change.

    Maybe I have a pretty square face delivery, who knows.

    Posted:
  • rickdarris2004rickdarris2004 FargoMembers  20WRX Points: 36Handicap: 11Posts: 20 Bunkers
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    Great info!

    Posted:

    Callaway Rogue SZ 9
    Callaway Rogue 4 Wood
    Callaway Apex 19 4 Hybrid
    Mizuno MPH4 4-PW
    Callaway MD3 50, 54, 58
    Scotty Futura 7M

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  • tgreen22tgreen22 Members  63WRX Points: 67Posts: 63 Bunkers
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    I wish I could hang out with someone like Tom Wishon

    Posted:
  • gatorgolfer86gatorgolfer86 Members  80WRX Points: 58Posts: 80 Fairways
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    So how how do you get a good fit from a major manufacturer? I know Titleist can change the lie angle with their fitting system, but the others don't. And they don't do anything for face angle. But I am with folks on here that I don't like when the adjustment comes into play.

    Posted:
  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members  3707WRX Points: 268Posts: 3,707 Titanium Tees
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    As a no talent lefty , I haven’t sliced in years with any driver unless I tried. Lessons did that for me. So I consider myself a straight driver on the most part. I don’t sole my driver and use a 10.5 degree set to -1 position. It works great for me. But that’s from a fairly straight shooter which Wishon said the adjustable driver will work best. So I got that going for net.

    Posted:
    Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

    Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
    3 and 5 Wood Ping G15
    3-5 Hybrids Cobra Baffler XL
    6-PW Titleist AP1s
    50 degree GW Titleist SM4
    56 degree SW Vokey SM7 
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  • jmgledhilljmgledhill Members  78WRX Points: 39Posts: 78 Fairways
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    Wouldn't the adjustable hosel be part of the fitting? So his premise that this adjustment flies in the face of fitting is flawed.

    Posted:
  • cristphotocristphoto Members  3881WRX Points: 350Posts: 3,881 Titanium Tees
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    Is the loft adjust-ability concept the same for all manufacturers? I have a Taylor Made M4 driver that has a single hosel adjuster (loft only), where my previous Titleist driver had a dual stage hosel adjuster (loft and draw/fade). From what I infer from this is you adjust the loft up or down and then square the club face at address to get the new loft. Correct?

    Posted:
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  • DLev45DLev45 Members  375WRX Points: 207Handicap: 8.5Posts: 375 Greens
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    I haven’t been able to review all the previous posts in this thread, but as a 3.5 year golfer, count me in the camp that did not understand how the adjustable driver settings worked, and I think my misunderstanding has worked against me greatly.

    I would see +1 on the settings of my 10.5 degree driver and think I changed the loft to my benefit. More loft = higher launch, more giving, and better carry and distance for me 98mph driver speed. But I was address the club soled and not rotating the face square.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but by having the club face closed with the club soled on the +1 loft setting, wasn’t I actually DELOFTING the club at address, thereby having the exact opposite effect of what I was attempting to accomplish?

    Likewise, wouldn’t setting the driver to the -1 setting and addressing the club on its sole with an open face without readjusting the grip to square the face actually ADD loft?

    In other words, soled with an open club face adds loft, and soled with a closed club face decreases loft, which is the exact opposite of what the user thinks they are doing without knowing you must adjust the face to square. Is that correct?

    Posted:
  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members  7638WRX Points: 453Posts: 7,638 Titanium Tees
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    you are correct, in a round-about way. You are essentially either opening or closing the face relative to the club path, all things equal. While it isn’t necessarily a static loft change, it has that dynamic effect.

    Posted:
    TM M3 440 w/ Speeder Evo II 6.1 TS
    TM M4 13.5 "Small Version"  w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 2 UDI w/ DG 105R or M3 19* 5W w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 3 Iron w/ DG AMT White R300
    4-PW Nike VR Pro MBs w/ DG AMT White R300
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • DLev45DLev45 Members  375WRX Points: 207Handicap: 8.5Posts: 375 Greens
    Joined:  edited Nov 28, 2019 #470

    Yeah I had read the first couple of pages and saw where some posters were giving Tom **** saying nobody would misunderstand that they need to square the face at address for the hosel to work, but certainly didn’t.

    I spent the better part of 2 years thinking my soled-closed clubface made my driver play at 11.5* instead of 10.5* when I was actually taking loft away.

    I don’t recall seeing anything in any manuals saying I needed to manipulate the face back to square to get the intended effect.

    Posted:
    Post edited by DLev45 on
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Nov 29, 2019 #471

    @DLev45

    Correct me if I am wrong, but by having the club face closed with the club soled on the +1 loft setting, wasn’t I actually DELOFTING the club at address, thereby having the exact opposite effect of what I was attempting to accomplish?


    No, that part is not correct. The hosel adjustement changes face angle without changing loft, so there was no delofting going on. Just the face angle changes.


    And whether you sole the club or not at address is not what matters. What happens at impact is the only thing that matters. So the important question I haven't seen an answer to is what happened at impact? After adjusting the face closed, did your left/right ball flight tendencies change or stay the same?

    Posted:
  • DLev45DLev45 Members  375WRX Points: 207Handicap: 8.5Posts: 375 Greens
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    I thought having the face open increased effective loft and closed decreased effective loft, i.e., I open the face on my wedge to hit a higher/softer shot.

    So I was applying that same concept to the driver. If I have my 10.5* driver set to -1*, it opens the face when soled. To get the desired 9.5* setting, I have to square the pre-set open face and re-grip. But if I DIDN'T manually re-square the face and left it 2* open, have I not actually increased the effective loft like opening a wedge 1-2 degrees?

    Posted:
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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
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    Only when you open the face by twisting the grip in your hand - and it's not really the effective loft that changes in that case (effective loft is the loft when the face is square, not open or closed). The dynamic loft may change if you keep the face open (or closed) through impact. Using the hosel adjustment is very different so the same rules don't apply. With the hosel adjustment, the face angle changes w/o any loft change. The effective loft does change so you will get the loft change if the face is square at impact but no change in loft if the face angle change is maintained through impact.

    So. Lets start with a head with a 0* face angle and 10* loft at it's standard setting.

    adjust the hosel setting to +1*. Now the face angle is 1.8* closed, but at that orientation the loft is still 10*. If you open it back to a square position (by rotating the head), then that opening is what increases the loft to 11*.

    Posted:
  • myspinonitmyspinonit Members  2977WRX Points: 202Posts: 2,977 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 22, 2020 9:25pm #474

    I don’t want a closed face on my 10.5 driver, but I can benefit from another degree of loft, with the head square testing shows. The Ping driver is set at the small plus (one degree on the 410). Rather than trying to manipulate the driver head consisently to square with my hands, ( being a bit nearsided doesn’t help), the grip is being reinstalled grip logo up with the head square at address. I then should only need to worry about lining my hands up to the grip logo for a square starting position.

    I’m doing a similar grip shift with my 5 wood, but this time the grip is being oriented to square while the adaptor is set at the small minus. I have a G 7 wood that is also set one degree weaker, but for now I’ll leave the grip as is.

    Posted:

    Ping G410 Plus 10.5°  Alta CB 55 R

    Ping G410 5 and 7 Woods Alta CB 65 R

    Ping G410 4 and 5 hybrids  Alta CB 70 R

    Miura PP9003 6-PW Steelfiber i70 A

    Vokey SM6 49.07 F &  54.08M, SM4 58.09 S  Steelfiber i80 R

    Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5  34"













  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members  7638WRX Points: 453Posts: 7,638 Titanium Tees
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    If it works, it works. A grip with a reminder is not necessarily a bad way to go either if it is comfortable to you.

    Posted:
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    Taylormade P790 2 UDI w/ DG 105R or M3 19* 5W w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 3 Iron w/ DG AMT White R300
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  • Ham_ShankHam_Shank Members  4WRX Points: 8Posts: 4 Starters
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    Watched this video about 5 years too late.

    Posted:
  • MysteryVMysteryV Members  546WRX Points: 151Posts: 546 Golden Tee
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    Great thread. Quick question that may have been asked but do most adjustable driver heads of the same make and model - come out of the same mold regardless of loft?

    For example - are the 8 / 9 / 10.5 degree SIM Max heads all the same with different hosel bore to determine the loft? If so - do they set up differently

    Posted:
    Driver: Taylormade SIM Max w/ Ventus Blue "New Year's" edition
    3 Wood / 5 Wood / 4H: Epic 3+ w/ GD AD-DI
    Irons: Miura CB-1008 w/ Oban CT-115
    Wedges: Miura Y Grind 51, Miura K Grind 56,60 w/ Modus Wedge
    Putter: Byron Morgan DH-89 GSS
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  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members  7638WRX Points: 453Posts: 7,638 Titanium Tees
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    Personally, I have yet to see a head that has the same static loft across all printed lofts when measured using the sole plate...so I would say no. The stamped loft on the head would appear to still be relative to the sole, not the hosel. The end game is that it's going to be manufacturer dependent on how they choose to design their heads though.

    Posted:
    TM M3 440 w/ Speeder Evo II 6.1 TS
    TM M4 13.5 "Small Version"  w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 2 UDI w/ DG 105R or M3 19* 5W w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 3 Iron w/ DG AMT White R300
    4-PW Nike VR Pro MBs w/ DG AMT White R300
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • MysteryVMysteryV Members  546WRX Points: 151Posts: 546 Golden Tee
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    Awesome. Thanks for the clarification. I figured it would be a slick way to shave manufacturing costs, but also figured it may be unlikely.

    Posted:
    Driver: Taylormade SIM Max w/ Ventus Blue "New Year's" edition
    3 Wood / 5 Wood / 4H: Epic 3+ w/ GD AD-DI
    Irons: Miura CB-1008 w/ Oban CT-115
    Wedges: Miura Y Grind 51, Miura K Grind 56,60 w/ Modus Wedge
    Putter: Byron Morgan DH-89 GSS
  • Adam CAdam C Members  827WRX Points: 440Handicap: 4Posts: 827 Golden Tee
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    Answer is no. If you have 3 printed lofts on the heads, they came from 3 different manufacturing templates. The hosel should be considered neutral in this discussion, and really with modern head designs, most are spec-ing off a perpendicular hosel more so than how the head may rest at setup at least where loft is concerned.

    Posted:
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  • malmeida13malmeida13 Members  5WRX Points: 17Handicap: 9.7Posts: 5 Bunkers
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    Thanks for the info!

    Posted:
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