Kelvin Miyahira: pro or con

About 2 weeks ago I linked Kelvin's most recent article to a topic regarding an article in Golf Digest by Mike Bender .I was surprised that a number of Golfwrx members had negative comments about Kelvin .This week I linked 2 articles by Kelvin on Grip styles of Pga pros to make a point about the grip.Another poster referred to the first of these articles as "nonsense"

I on the other hand regard Kelvin's articles as some of the very best information on the web.He is at the forefront in using very high speed cameras and the use of biomechanics in golf swing analysis.

The downside is that he bases his models too much on the swings of long drivers ,especially LDA champions.He is sometimes wrong about the importance of certain muscular movements,his analysis is based too much on 2d measurements and he is not adverse to publically criticizing other instructors.The website that he backs is often petty and argumentative.To really understand his analysis a good knowledge of the golf swing and of anatomical movements is required

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Nobody is perfect in life.

No one is perfect in golf analysis.

Take the good.

Reject the bad.

Find your own system that works for you.

Once you have it trust it.

CON

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1411269160' post='10155435']
About 2 weeks ago I linked Kelvin's most recent article to a topic regarding an article in Golf Digest by Mike Bender .I was surprised that a number of Golfwrx members had negative comments about Kelvin .This week I linked 2 articles by Kelvin on Grip styles of Pga pros to make a point about the grip.Another poster referred to the first of these articles as "nonsense"

I on the other hand regard Kelvin's articles as some of the very best information on the web.He is at the forefront in using very high speed cameras and the use of biomechanics in golf swing analysis.

The downside is that he bases his models too much on the swings of long drivers ,especially LDA champions.He is sometimes wrong about the importance of certain muscular movements,his analysis is based too much on 2d measurements and he is not adverse to publically criticizing other instructors.The website that he backs is often petty and argumentative,

WHAT DO YOU THINK?
[/quote]

I think you summed it up.

He's interesting but too technical. I'm a feel player and I understand a lot of technical swing stuff, but his stuff is good but almost too much for me. Almost just too much to think about. Grip it and rip it:)

My philosophy regarding many instances in life applies here- A person should be able to humbly present their own positive attributes without feeling the necessity to needlessly diminish others.

Think his information is something we can all learn from. Personally don't know how good of a teacher he is. Never actually witnessed him "needlessly" diminishing anyone. I've heard him point out factual errors of others.

Go on jeffy site - he is arrogant

And has anyone ever confirmed a word he said? Unless he is regurgitating someone else - it's junk science

I think he is a bright guy and exceedingly gracious in the interactions I have had with him. Certainly not perfect, but no one is. I think your wrap up is pretty spot on.

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1411270400' post='10155555']
Think his information is something we can all learn from. Personally don't know how good of a teacher he is. Never actually witnessed him "needlessly" diminishing anyone. I've heard him point out factual errors of others.
[/quote]
I think he has some good info but some fairly far reaching conclusions as well. And if you've never heard any smack talk from him go over to jeffy golf forum. It's like recess in middle school and they think sit at the "cool" kids table as if they are top dogs. Quite entertaining really. There is no way to question or refute their claims or smack talk as jeffy keeps a tight lock on any new sign ups or alternative opinion. All three of their members eat it up though, lol.

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1411270400' post='10155555']
Think his information is something we can all learn from. Personally don't know how good of a teacher he is. Never actually witnessed him "needlessly" diminishing anyone. I've heard him point out factual errors of others.
[/quote]

Oh my. I was directed there by a great member here to read some of the venom he spews on that site regarding other teachers. He in particular has a weird fetish with Brian Manzella. He bashes this site and routinely makes fun of Monte and has taken shots at Dan stating they have no clue. It was eye opening to me. Put things into an entirely different perspective.

What's the other guy Jeffy like? He made one crude post on here in another thread and disappeared afterwords.

You summed it up pretty well Russ. The only thing I'd add is that he attempts to go into such detail, it's nearly impossible for anyone to realistically fact check him. It would take me hours to sit there and go through the anatomical stuff he claims, reason it out and then decide if I agree or not. Don't think that stuff helps anyone because if I can't even decide if I agree or not, I have no idea how avg dude would decide if they want to employ it or not. That and the posting on a hawaii website rubs me wrong way. he makes some big claims about TM and it's hard to take anyone serious that can't get their own domain.

Also he posts a lot of extreme slow mo at impact for his claims, yet never shows the actual swings and ball flights that accompany these. That is pretty questionable in my mind. The heel hook thing is something that he's still never shown any video of besides an ultra high speed ultra low res res video that is super zoomed in on the clubface.

It wasn't long ago someone revived an old thread that Jeffy started where he was ripping on Dana and his swing. It was incredibly insulting to even read. Dana was just as incredibly gracious.

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1411270918' post='10155603']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1411270400' post='10155555']
Think his information is something we can all learn from. Personally don't know how good of a teacher he is. Never actually witnessed him "needlessly" diminishing anyone. I've heard him point out factual errors of others.
[/quote]
I think he has some good info but some fairly far reaching conclusions as well. And if you've never heard any smack talk from him go over to jeffy golf forum. It's like recess in middle school and they think sit at the "cool" kids table as if they are top dogs. Quite entertaining really. There is no way to question or refute their claims or smack talk as jeffy keeps a tight lock on any new sign ups or alternative opinion. All three of their members eat it up though, lol.
[/quote]
You are on tonight!

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1411270988' post='10155607']
What's the other guy Jeffy like? He made one crude post on here in another thread and disappeared afterwords.
[/quote]

Dude - jeffy is banned and so is Jeff Mann - like in 2008.

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411271367' post='10155645']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1411270988' post='10155607']
What's the other guy Jeffy like? He made one crude post on here in another thread and disappeared afterwords.
[/quote]

Dude - jeffy is banned and so is Jeff Mann - like in 2008.
[/quote]

Well there was a thread a week or so ago that everyone said it was Jeffy. It was about someone casting and camera parallax.

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1411271108' post='10155617']
It wasn't long ago someone revived an old thread that Jeffy started where he was ripping on Dana and his swing. It was incredibly insulting to even read. Dana was just as incredibly gracious.
[/quote]

He is a class act. I remember I asked Dana a question in like 2009 and he pm'd me his number to explain. I called him and asked how much right away - no charge - just gave me the scoop. I was green behind the ears and didn't get it probably should have payed more attention. Very nice guy. If I was in Cali - I would see him.

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1411271491' post='10155657']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411271367' post='10155645']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1411270988' post='10155607']
What's the other guy Jeffy like? He made one crude post on here in another thread and disappeared afterwords.
[/quote]

Dude - jeffy is banned and so is Jeff Mann - like in 2008.
[/quote]

Well there was a thread a week or so ago that everyone said it was Jeffy. It was about someone casting and camera parallax.
[/quote]

Can you post a link - I missed it.

At last count, the number of micro moves in a "gold medal" swing is 3567 and counting.

I don't believe Miyahira even plays golf as nobody has seen him swing a club.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1079229-shaft-bending-the-wrong-way-before-impactcasting/page__st__30

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411271580' post='10155667']
[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1411271108' post='10155617']
It wasn't long ago someone revived an old thread that Jeffy started where he was ripping on Dana and his swing. It was incredibly insulting to even read. Dana was just as incredibly gracious.
[/quote]

He is a class act. I remember I asked Dana a question in like 2009 and he pm'd me his number to explain. I called him and asked how much right away - no charge - just gave me the scoop. I was green behind the ears and didn't get it probably should have payed more attention. Very nice guy. If I was in Cali - I would see him.
[/quote]

Has done the same thing for me as well. Learned more in 15 minutes from him than 15 months on this site. 10/10 would recommend to anyone and everyone

I find him confusing and way too complicated.

The results speak for themselves. I really like Kelvin's research and believe that "mainstream" golf instruction is more about business and self promotion rather than making players better. And Kelvin is honest about that.

Lucas Wald, one of Kelvin's certified instructors, has a YouTube page and the case studies speak for themselves.

I think the best thing about Kelvin's stuff is that he looks at movement for what it is rather than using a subjective feel. It is complicated but if you understand basic anatomy it isn't hard to grasp.

Last thing, types of players have things in common and he makes those things known. Why does Woodland hit it further than most? What movements are similar between the longest hitters? What are
Similar movements in the shortest hitters? He points those out and if you can't see it that's on you. Because I've seen his research be applied over and over and it works.

This is for another discussion but I wouldn't take a lesson from about 99 of the top 100 teachers in whatever magazine it's posted.

Where can the case studies be found?

Links to some of his controversial articles or comments ? Having trouble navigating on jeffy golf website

Kelvin is a very good researcher. Many people say he is too complicated, but his approach is to understand all segments of the movement.
There are not many people out there, who do such a research and this has to be acknowledged. However, Kelvin might have a different view of the swing compared to Mike Bender and others. The question is, if one is wrong? As far as I understand Kelvin, he is of the opinion that 1. a hip stall is wrong or at least inefficient. 2.The right humerus bone has to stay externally rotated as long as possible.

1.Example:
How about current No. 1Golfer Rory McIlroy? He is stalling his hips and supports the scientific approach, that the body can stall and the arms will be able to swing at a very fast rate. It seems that a stall isn't much of a problem and the body stabilizes with this motion the impact forces. Like in many other sports, the front leg is used as a post after accellerating the motion.

2. Example:
Jeff Mann has criticized Kelvin on his website and tried to give evidence for his critique. Kelvins student Kelli Oride was taken as example and she is internally rotating her right humerus bone very early in the downswing. This used to have a bad influence on the release pattern, but it doesn't in her case. So, I think the whole technique is still not fully understand and there is still room for fallacy. Therefore nobody should be too sure about his findings and stay open minded and humble.

Just take a look at his youtube feed, aswell as Lucas wald. The transformations are amazing for most pupils.

Im yet to find any other instructor who can coach someone so quickly into an amazing golf swing that kelvin and lucas do. Just take a look at the before and after vidoes for evidence. Turning flippers into swings with stable release with nice shaft lean.

Kelvin is a tad technical. But he is one of the few instructors to analyse body movements/biomechanics of a good swing and publish the details for all to see. This is the very stuff people need to focus on to improve their swing. Most coaches focus far to much on the golf club, ie plane/angles etc. yet if you watch your local hackers on a weekend, they move their body's in the most un-athletic way imaginable. Kevlin at least address these issues and ways to fix them.

His articles IMO are fantastic.

I'll give the guy credit, he puts in a ton of time and does the research and his articles can be very good, his series on the variation to PGA Tour grips was phenomenal.

But, like others have said, way way way too much in the weeds. Under any type of pressure you can't be thinking about 396 different micro moves.

His stuff on club lag is awesome. It's all free too. This guy gets great props from me