I think it's time for Hogan!

 9woodfan ·  
9woodfan9woodfan Members  1476WRX Points: 134Posts: 1,476 Platinum Tees
Joined:  in Hogan's Heroes Swing Forum #1
After years of messing about, changing equipment, and not really making any gains I think it's time for a change. I've always watch Hogan videos and loves the classic swing. I've followed My Swing Evolution for a few years and that's kind of inspired me.



So I finally got off the equipment section of WRX and here I am. Seems like a great place to start!
Posted:

Bag: Ping Hoofer Camo / Vessel Sunday Bag
Driver: Ping G400 SFT @ 10*
Wood: Cobra King F8 @ 17*
Hybrids: Cobra King F8 22* & 25*
Irons: Wishon Sterling SL 6-SW
Wedge: KZG Forged TRS Grind 60*
Putter: SGC WB Northwood
Lovingly built by: Dan's Custom Golf

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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    Put up that swing and let the fun begin! Best of luck sir!
    Posted:
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  • dapdap Members  2618WRX Points: 185Posts: 2,618 Titanium Tees
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    9woodfan wrote:


    After years of messing about, changing equipment, and not really making any gains I think it's time for a change. I've always watch Hogan videos and loves the classic swing. I've followed My Swing Evolution for a few years and that's kind of inspired me.



    So I finally got off the equipment section of WRX and here I am. Seems like a great place to start!




    You're going to need a basement,some video cameras and a protractor.
    Posted:
  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    Don't forget the beret.
    Posted:
  • DinosaurDinosaur Members  2016WRX Points: 110Posts: 2,016 Platinum Tees
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    oh, no...not another one! ".......a place of sight and sound, welcome to The Twilight Zone"...da na da na, da na da na.....
    Posted:
    "Non rinunciare mai quello
    che desideri...."
    Go with what you know!
  • Pinsplitter59Pinsplitter59 Members  976WRX Points: 3Posts: 976 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #6
    Even though I have pretty much given up (retired defeated and exhausted?) on such an attempt, I do encourage any other brave soul to venture down the Path to Perfection.

    As there are now a number of valiant explorers I will offer motivation in the form of a MVA Award (Most Valiant Attempt), to be judged by an expert panel chaired by Tembolo the Trustworthy.

    The prize is yet to be decided. It might be something like my girlfriend's phone number, a Ryder style cup with Hogan on top instead of Ol' Abe, a month's free stay in my Thailand apartment etc, suggestions welcome.

    A word of advice to those departing on the journey, do not listen to the negative naysayers who say that because Hogan was X and Y and Z, it is not possible to emulate him.

    Follow the Sun fair knights and may Impact be with you!
    Posted:
  • 9woodfan9woodfan Members  1476WRX Points: 134Posts: 1,476 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #7
    Yea another one... I shall be that fair knight in your Thailand apartment soon. Heck, even if I just keep my elbows connected it will help! I like the idea of the bump and body swing as I've seen it described.



    I think I'll pass on the snazzy hats tho.
    Posted:

    Bag: Ping Hoofer Camo / Vessel Sunday Bag
    Driver: Ping G400 SFT @ 10*
    Wood: Cobra King F8 @ 17*
    Hybrids: Cobra King F8 22* & 25*
    Irons: Wishon Sterling SL 6-SW
    Wedge: KZG Forged TRS Grind 60*
    Putter: SGC WB Northwood
    Lovingly built by: Dan's Custom Golf

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  • dapdap Members  2618WRX Points: 185Posts: 2,618 Titanium Tees
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    The hat and the pulled up pants will make your swing look more Hogan even if it isn't. Lots of Hogan emulators use this technique to good effect. You want the top of the pants closer to your nipple than your belly button.



    You might need to raid your grandfathers wardrobe. Good luck!!
    Posted:
  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #9
    What happened to those ladyboys?
    Posted:
  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13869WRX Points: 1,437Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,869 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #10
    No matter how tall you are or how short your arms are make sure you start the process by getting your clubs set 8* flat. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • Lime SharkLime Shark Members  311WRX Points: 0Posts: 311
    Joined:  #11
    If you don't mind me offering some practial advice, start by reading the following 3 books in this order:



    1. See and Feel the Inside Move the Outside by Michael Hebron

    2. The Secret of Hogan's Swing by Tom Bertrand (watch his youtubes also)

    5. Five Lessons by Ben Hogan



    #1 explains the hows and whys of a rotary golf swing (which Hogan's definitly was), something Hogan left out of his book.



    The last part of #2 (which describes the swing step-by-step) is the only part of the book worth reading, but it alone is worth the money. It is the clearest, most systematic explination of Hogan's swing out there.



    If you read the first two book, then Hogan's book will make more sense. Hogan terms like "free ride" or the reason he chooses certain movements over others will make perfect sense.
    Posted:
  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    dlygrisse wrote:


    No matter how tall you are or how short your arms are make sure you start the process by getting your clubs set 8* flat. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    What about the whole wire under the grip for a reminder rib?
    Posted:
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  • farmerfarmer Members  8697WRX Points: 1,098Posts: 8,697 Titanium Tees
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    The key is to have a cig in your mouth as often as possible. The smoke gathering under the brim of the hat helps your concentration.
    Posted:
  • Lime SharkLime Shark Members  311WRX Points: 0Posts: 311
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    9woodfan,



    Sorry to see your thread is turning into a humor thread. Don't let it disuade you.



    The primary advantage of trying to learn to swing like Hogan, is that you will be following a system. All (good) golf swings are actually a golf swing system (and there are different, incompatible systems), but it's not taught like that today. Certainly most golfers don't recognize that fact. Ask 100 golfers what their swing approach is--are they swingers or hitters, is their swing powered by the lower of upper half of their body, do they use active or inactive hands--and 99 will look at you blank, befuddled, cow-chewing-its-cud look on their face.



    The analogy I use is a gasoline and diesel automotive engine. They may look alike to the unitiated, but they are mechanically very different. Start slapping gasoline engine parts on a diesel engine and it will quickly fail to function.



    This is why most "help my swing" threads devolve into a gawd-awful, mish-mash of advice and swing tips. Rarely does anyone spend any time to determine what kind of "swing engine" the golfer is using. They just start trying to slap "swing parts" onto it, uinconcerned if it is a "gasoline swing engine" or a "diesel swing engine."



    When you start rejecting most of the swing advice that comes your way, because it isn't compatible with your swing system, then you will finally be on your way to having a solid swing. This is the big advantage of "emulating Hogan." It gives you a system to follow, and a basis for rejecting advice from others.
    Posted:
  • dairicdairic Members  1098WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,098
    Joined:  edited Oct 8, 2014 #15
    Buy large bags of dirt. There's a secret in there apparently. Also, drive some spikes in soles of all your shoes.
    Posted:
  • Pinsplitter59Pinsplitter59 Members  976WRX Points: 3Posts: 976 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #16
    funny you mention that Dairic, i just had 4 cubic metres of dirt delivered 2 days ago. i have only shfted 2 barrow loads so far and only found a few stones and wood chips.

    perhaps its actually about how you swing the shovel, you know that underarm motion when you throw a shovel load out in front of you, anyone know if Hogan ever did any landscaping?

    might be going back to my old course soon for a book launching of its history, Peter Thomson will be there, he played the course on the opening day way back in 1960's,

    i will try to pull him aside and ask him Hogan's secret since he finished equal second to Hogan in the 1953 Open Championship he ought to know.

    Made a setup change last evening and improved my ball strking quite a lot, don't think Hogan did it though unfortunately.
    Posted:
  • dairicdairic Members  1098WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,098
    Joined:  edited Oct 8, 2014 #17
    good shovel theory Pin.



    There were a few good ball strikers from Canada even though it has a small population and you can't play golf for a big chunk of the year here. You do get a lot of practice shovelling snow living up here though. hmmmm



    Another theory...Hogan killed and buried the guy who taught him the secret. Thus, the secret's in the dirt.
    Posted:
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  • hoganswinghoganswing Members  156WRX Points: 25Posts: 156 Fairways
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    9woodfan wrote:


    After years of messing about, changing equipment, and not really making any gains I think it's time for a change. I've always watch Hogan videos and loves the classic swing. I've followed My Swing Evolution for a few years and that's kind of inspired me.



    So I finally got off the equipment section of WRX and here I am. Seems like a great place to start!




    Good on you. From someone that has been doing that for a few months now I can tell you the best bit is that it gives a sense of direction.
    Posted:
    How To Swing Like Ben Hogan
    http://www.HoganSwing.com
  • Mike DivotMike Divot Members  266WRX Points: 79Posts: 266 Greens
    Joined:  #19
    The Hogan Swing. It's the swing you deserve, but not the swing you need right now.
    Posted:
  • Mike DivotMike Divot Members  266WRX Points: 79Posts: 266 Greens
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    What happened to those ladyboys?




    Their grip is a little weak. You might end up wishing they had three right hands.
    Posted:
  • ej002ej002 Unregistered  5129WRX Points: 3Posts: 5,129 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #21
    Lime Shark wrote:


    If you don't mind me offering some practial advice, start by reading the following 3 books in this order:



    1. See and Feel the Inside Move the Outside by Michael Hebron

    2. The Secret of Hogan's Swing by Tom Bertrand (watch his youtubes also)

    5. Five Lessons by Ben Hogan



    #1 explains the hows and whys of a rotary golf swing (which Hogan's definitly was), something Hogan left out of his book.



    The last part of #2 (which describes the swing step-by-step) is the only part of the book worth reading, but it alone is worth the money. It is the clearest, most systematic explination of Hogan's swing out there.



    If you read the first two book, then Hogan's book will make more sense. Hogan terms like "free ride" or the reason he chooses certain movements over others will make perfect sense.




    He has a great pivot but it is very different than the "rotary" crowd IMO
    Posted:
  • Lime SharkLime Shark Members  311WRX Points: 0Posts: 311
    Joined:  edited Oct 8, 2014 #22
    ej002 wrote:


    He has a great pivot but it is very different than the "rotary" crowd IMO




    Hogan definitely had a "swing the club around the body" swing, as opposed to the modern "two plane, up and down" swing (that was the reason his swing was so flat). When discussing the downswing in 5 Lessons, Hogan says:




    What do the hands do? The answer is they do nothing active until after the arms have moved on the downswing to a position just above the level of the hips. The arms don’t propel this motion themselves . They are carried down by the movement of the hips. To understand just how the hands and arms get this “free ride,” pick up a club, swing it back, and hold your position at the top of the backswing. Now, forgetting about your hands and arms entirely, start to move your hips back to the left, in comparative slow motion. Now look where your hands are. This movement of the hips has automatically carried them down from the top — quite a good ways down , in fact, so that they are just about at hip level. In this position, tied in as they are with the body’s ever-building speed and power, the arms and hands should feel absolutely loaded with power. Everything you did from the grip on was calculated to get you into this this position. You cannot simulate this position or arrive at it by leaving out one of the integrated steps. Only if they have carried out the fundamental movements will the correct parts of the body be correctly interpoised at this critical time in the swing to pick up this terrific load of energy and deliver it.




    Hogan flatly states that the hands and arms do nothing for the first part of the downswing. So where does the power come to propel the arms and hands during this free-ride part of the swing? From the rotation of the trunk of the body--specifically the hips. Hogan used the rotation of the trunk combined with passive arms and hands in his swing. In that regard, his swing certainly fits in with the rotary model. No, Hogan didn't have a PURE rotary swing as some modern teachers teach it, but it was much closer to a rotary swing than the "modern" swing model.



    Now, we can nit-pick over the difference between the terms pivot and rotate, but that's all it would be--nit-picking--as they both mean to turn around an axis.
    Posted:
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  • DinosaurDinosaur Members  2016WRX Points: 110Posts: 2,016 Platinum Tees
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    The picking of knits seems to be most prevalent in these threads as of late. However, I welcome it as it is usually accompanied by quotations, illustration, and explanations of articles in instructional materials such as Five Lessons. No matter how many times I hear it repeated, it always has a way of bringing me back on track having departed from it briefly owing to temporary departures borne out of other articles and/or opinions offered. The ones stated above, reminded me of how the hands and arms have been loaded with power allowing one to "whip" through impact. I may be reading it wrong, but I also think that is where his notion of "wishing for three right hands" comes into play. The other that helps is Monte's no turn-cast drill for much the same reason(s).



    again, although repeated hundreds if not thousands of times, it always seems a tireless topic. If I were to attempt to simplify it, I would say something to the effect "an accumulated chain of events and efforts being brought into precise synchronization to allow for transition of power to deliver impact at a moment in time". Hogan already said something similar I am sure and more than once. Daly stated it a bit more succinctly in five words.
    Posted:
    "Non rinunciare mai quello
    che desideri...."
    Go with what you know!
  • dairicdairic Members  1098WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,098
    Joined:  #24
    Lime Shark wrote:

    ej002 wrote:


    He has a great pivot but it is very different than the "rotary" crowd IMO




    Hogan definitely had a "swing the club around the body" swing, as opposed to the modern "two plane, up and down" swing (that was the reason his swing was so flat). When discussing the downswing in 5 Lessons, Hogan says:




    What do the hands do? The answer is they do nothing active until after the arms have moved on the downswing to a position just above the level of the hips. The arms don’t propel this motion themselves . They are carried down by the movement of the hips. To understand just how the hands and arms get this “free ride,” pick up a club, swing it back, and hold your position at the top of the backswing. Now, forgetting about your hands and arms entirely, start to move your hips back to the left, in comparative slow motion. Now look where your hands are. This movement of the hips has automatically carried them down from the top — quite a good ways down , in fact, so that they are just about at hip level. In this position, tied in as they are with the body’s ever-building speed and power, the arms and hands should feel absolutely loaded with power. Everything you did from the grip on was calculated to get you into this this position. You cannot simulate this position or arrive at it by leaving out one of the integrated steps. Only if they have carried out the fundamental movements will the correct parts of the body be correctly interpoised at this critical time in the swing to pick up this terrific load of energy and deliver it.




    Hogan flatly states that the hands and arms do nothing for the first part of the downswing. So where does the power come to propel the arms and hands during this free-ride part of the swing? From the rotation of the trunk of the body--specifically the hips. Hogan used the rotation of the trunk combined with passive arms and hands in his swing. In that regard, his swing certainly fits in with the rotary model. No, Hogan didn't have a PURE rotary swing as some modern teachers teach it, but it was much closer to a rotary swing than the "modern" swing model.



    Now, we can nit-pick over the difference between the terms pivot and rotate, but that's all it would be--nit-picking--as they both mean to turn around an axis.




    What's the modern swing?



    If you start to pivot and leave the hands and arms behind, you'll become disconnected and get stuck. Hands and arms need to keep up.



    5 lesson shows a two plane swing. Look at the shifted downswing pane of glass.



    If you look what he actually does you can see the hands shifting out towards the ball in transition as opposed to moving straight down, so his pivot is not outracing his arms/hands.



    Now read the '55 time life article and see his thoughts on passive arms/hands.

    Posted:
  • DinosaurDinosaur Members  2016WRX Points: 110Posts: 2,016 Platinum Tees
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    That's another thing that bothers me, (not actually "bothers" but it will suffice). Many of the proponents of the one plane swing often identify Hogan as one of the models, yet in the five lessons, he does in fact show two planes. I don't know whether to call it interpretation or invocation whereby the mention of his name gives credence to the lesson. Confusing for the uninitiated. I suppose one could also say there is a difference between a one plane swing, and a single plane swing. In the end, it really matters little. Do whatever it takes and if it works, keep doing it.
    Posted:
    "Non rinunciare mai quello
    che desideri...."
    Go with what you know!
  • dairicdairic Members  1098WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,098
    Joined:  #26
    and what's that Jody Vasquez thing again? Something about the right knee?



    anyways...you'll need to learn that too.
    Posted:
  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    Pin you don't love us anymore? Tell us more stories!
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  • SilkySilky Members  731WRX Points: 80Posts: 731 Golden Tee
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    Yea, Temboloni is porked up again.



    You should take Pin's offer for a stay in his apartment in Bangkok. It is a golfing heaven during nov, dec, jan after the rainy season and the weather is not too hot. I myself never met ladyboy caddies though. Can they rape you?
    Posted:
  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    Silky wrote:


    Yea, Temboloni is porked up again.



    You should take Pin's offer for a stay in his apartment in Bangkok. It is a golfing heaven during nov, dec, jan after the rainy season and the weather is not too hot. I myself never met ladyboy caddies though. Can they rape you?




    I'd imagine so? If they were functional.



    But i'd imagine them to be very scrawny. One slap and they are out...they probably like it though.



    GROSS!
    Posted:
  • Lime SharkLime Shark Members  311WRX Points: 0Posts: 311
    Joined:  #30
    Dinosaur wrote:


    That's another thing that bothers me, (not actually "bothers" but it will suffice). Many of the proponents of the one plane swing often identify Hogan as one of the models, yet in the five lessons, he does in fact show two planes.




    In his book, Hogan says your downswing SHOULD NOT be on the same plane as the backswing. Also, Hogan's layoff move (as demonstrated by Bertrand) obvously puts his downswing on a lower, flatter plane than his backswing. So no, Hogan did not technically have a one plane golf swing.



    I tend to use the terms one-pland and two-plane as relative terms, not absolutes (as there are very few people who go back and come down on EXACTLY the same plane). I tend to think of people that stay under Hogan's imaginary pane of glass as one-planers, and people who cross back and forth over it as two-planers (as their backswing plane tends to be drasticly different than their down swing plane). I think of the difference as a matter of degree.



    Maybe I should stat using something like glass-shatters and non-glass-shatterers instead to avoid confusion.



    FofH-HoganGlassPlane.jpg
    Posted:
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  • eightironeightiron Banned  3136WRX Points: 0Posts: 3,136
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    What happened to those ladyboys?




    Down under we cook them and eat them ! Well one guy did a few days ago
    Posted:
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