Courses without bunkers

Im a head greenkeeper based in the UK and always looking for ways to improve our course and save money.

How would you all feel about golf courses without any bunkers? Or very few?

They cost a fortune in maitenance and with clubs struggling the money could be spent better on something else.

[quote name='GaryCorlett' timestamp='1414510955' post='10362231']
Im a head greenkeeper based in the UK and always looking for ways to improve our course and save money.

How would you all feel about golf courses without any bunkers? Or very few?

They cost a fortune in maitenance and with clubs struggling the money could be spent better on something else.
[/quote]

There are some very good examples of bunkerless courses in the UK. Straight off the top of my head are Berkhampsted and Royal Ashdown Forest. It depends how good the land is and if you can maintain the course in a reasonably firm manner so that slopes are a good defense of the course.

Just thought of a few more:
Kington
Painswick
Windermere
Wimbledon Common
Church Stretton

all of those are on quite to very severe terrain apart from Wimbledon which is on common land

Our local course filled them all in and made grass bunkers out of them. Don't really like it. Don't hate it either. I know the High School team has no place to practice bunker shots.

Im not in the UK and I dont know much about the courses over there besides what I see on TV, but the course that my team practices at only has 1 bunker and it is poorly maintained (more like dirt). I can say that my guys hate it because when we get to a course that has bunkers, they are clueless. It is an interesting look and gives you chances to create other defenses for the course, but there may be some people that start to miss playing out of bunkers.. Its a service industry so someone will always complain about something, but as long as you can create cool other defenses for the course it can be an interesting look!

Good luck!

I played a course while I was living in Erie, PA and they had grass bunkers. Ibdidnt really notice it until about the 15th hole that I hadn't seen a bunker. I thoroughly enjoyed the course because the conditioning was outstanding. As long as you don't let them go to waste and you still maintain a semblance of a grass bunker it looks pretty good actually.

Our club reduced the bunker total from 72 to 52 over the past few years (I'm greens and grounds chairman). The rationale was maintenance/cost issues as you've stated. Most of the bunkers eliminated were large fairway bunkers. There was some whining from the membership, but things have settled down and our golf course is still a tough test. I would not like a golf course without some sand bunkering, but understand the need to save time and money. My advice would be to eliminate the bunkers that require the most maintenance and see how things go from there. Baby steps, so to speak.

Good Luck!

A course I used to play regularly has about 13 bunkers, and I didn't even notice how few there were until I looked at the course on Google Earth. The course has really large greens, and I think in a lot of cases it would be easier to hit a bunker shot within 10 feet than a 60-75-foot putt. Another course I play regularly is a newer course that has a huge number of large, deep bunkers cut into hillsides. They have to be a huge maintenance burden. I could easily see some of them being filled without making the course any less challenging. The sidehill lies would be harder in some cases than hitting out of a bunker. Seems like on a lot of new courses, bunkers are as much for decoration and spectacle than they are for affecting play, especially since they are mainly penal without playing any role in strategy.

Having no sand is no good. But a good grass bunker can be more penal, quite often, with the lies it presents.
I say get rid of any bunkers that are hard to maintain due to drainage issues, etc. Nothing worse than that bunker that is always useless and flooded after a small amount of rain. I know there are a few I'd get rid of on my home course in a hearbeat.

Consistency with sand is key. Keep removing until they all play in a similar fashion. I hate when courses have a mix of new and old bunkers/sand.

I wouldn't like a course with no bunkers, but to tell you the truth, I'd prefer having no bunkers than poorly maintained bunkers. If a course can't maintain them, i.e. decent drainage and quality sand, then get rid of them.

Yes, it can work and work well -- but it has to be done with forethought and intent. Simply filling in sand bunkers with grass makes for nice little patty cake bowls that are easy to get out of.

Consider this course on google -- fox hollow golf course in Utah.

[attachment=2476451:foxhollow.jpg]

A typical american parkland muni, it has no bunkers, but if you zoom in on the greens you will see a bunch of dark green circles. These are high rough areas, sometimes in depressions, sometimes on knobs. They are surrounded by closely mown run-off areas, defending the greens far more punitively than any bunkers I've run across. The Greenskeeper chooses which areas he'll mow and which he'll let grow long based on how the hole needs to be defended and where errant shots tend to end up. One hole I found myself on the backside of a shaggy knob in a closely mown bowl. Took me 4 more to get in. Oh how I wished I was in a bunker!

Brilliant job and very different from the typical method most courses are tended.

I understand Luton Hoo has no bunkers

http://www.lutonhoo.co.uk/golf-course-hertfordshire

[quote name='GaryCorlett' timestamp='1414510955' post='10362231']
Im a head greenkeeper based in the UK and always looking for ways to improve our course and save money.

How would you all feel about golf courses without any bunkers? Or very few?

They cost a fortune in maitenance and with clubs struggling the money could be spent better on something else.
[/quote]

Hard to advise without knowing more about your course.

How old is the course and does it have any architectural "pedigree" so to speak? So many courses have been negatively modified by the direction of the members/green committee/in-house staff. I would be hesitant to go forward with such a project without some consultation of a respected architect. I know, it costs money.

I'm a fan of bunkering that is strategic in nature. Not so much for bunkering that is merely penal, or those that force a single line of play, or those used just for aiming or those that are purely aesthetic in nature. If your course has a lot bunkering of the second group, then it might certainly benefit by some reduction.

Like you said, you want the project to improve the course as well as improve the affect on the maintenance budget.

Good luck!

Most of the public courses I play in Houston have hard packed bunkers that are pretty much mud when it rains. The only shot you can attempt is to pick it clean with a high lofted wedge when your green side.

Grass bunkers would be interesting and possibly more challenging than a well maintained sand bunker. I don't know what the cost would be, but it would save the time and effort of resanding.

Most american bunkers are put there for ego or looks. They do little and are not punitive. Asinine, in my opinion. A bunker should be a punishment or a hazard to be avoided, if it can't be either, or if it is merely a safe bail out or a buffer against greater danger, take it out. Don't take out the ones that are serving their purpose.

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1414516146' post='10362713']
Having no sand is no good. But a good grass bunker can be more penal, quite often, with the lies it presents.
I say get rid of any bunkers that are hard to maintain due to drainage issues, etc. Nothing worse than that bunker that is always useless and flooded after a small amount of rain. I know there are a few I'd get rid of on my home course in a hearbeat.

Consistency with sand is key. Keep removing until they all play in a similar fashion. I hate when courses have a mix of new and old bunkers/sand.
[/quote]
I have to agree with the last comment there. Inconsistency of bunkers really annoys me as do players who don't rake them after being in them - but that's another topic altogether. I know from talking to our greens keeper just how expensive getting the right sand is though and how replacing the bunker sand has to be done in stages to make it affordable.

The RTJ Golf Trail Hampton Cove River Course has no bunkers and is difficult as all hell. All the greens are quite elevated, the fairways are undulating so a level lie is difficult, and there is water. A course doesn't have to have sand to be tough.

Play a few courses in the uk without bunkers, making tricky run offs from the bunkers is a good challenge of an up and down.

[quote name='GaryCorlett' timestamp='1414510955' post='10362231']
Im a head greenkeeper based in the UK and always looking for ways to improve our course and save money.

How would you all feel about golf courses without any bunkers? Or very few?

They cost a fortune in maitenance and with clubs struggling the money could be spent better on something else.
[/quote]

My local muni has just a handful.

No knowing your course, and how many bunkers you have... what about a compromise... Get rid of the ones which aren't in play.

[quote name='DevilDog' timestamp='1414527488' post='10363931']
The RTJ Golf Trail Hampton Cove River Course has no bunkers and is difficult as all hell. All the greens are quite elevated, the fairways are undulating so a level lie is difficult, and there is water. A course doesn't have to have sand to be tough.
[/quote]

I played there from the tips years back and wore out my 2, 3 and 4 irons .. (the presence of the 2 and 3 irons tells you it was a while back ..)
Awesome track with some cool old trees as well if memory serves

I sure if we brainstorm, we could come up with some interesting alternatives.

Fill them in, plant grass, and let the grass grow high.

Fill them in and plant ivy.

Turn them into rock gardens.

Turn them into ponds.

Fill them in with asphalt and turn them into "bounce" hazards. If angled correctly, they would bounce any ball that hit them back down the fairway towards the tee.

My home course in AZ had no bunkers. I didn't miss them at all. They had a few areas where you could tell there used to be bunkers that were made into "grass bunkers". Much cheaper to maintain.

The course I work at is opening 9 of our holes this weekend after a greens/tees re-newing. We added a few bunkers greenside and a few bunkers in the fairways.

There is always the comment that "the course I play at has no bunkers and when I go to another course I don't know how to play out of sand". That really is not a reason for or against adding or taking away bunkers. That's a personal problem. Learning to play from sand is not a reason to add bunkers to your course.

Bunkers are expensive and difficult to effectively maintain. With the decline in golf and the need to save money and manpower, eliminating or not adding bunkers is a great business decision.

[quote name='dmblanch' timestamp='1414523331' post='10363433']
Yes, it can work and work well -- but it has to be done with forethought and intent. Simply filling in sand bunkers with grass makes for nice little patty cake bowls that are easy to get out of.

Consider this course on google -- fox hollow golf course in Utah.

[attachment=2476451:foxhollow.jpg]

A typical american parkland muni, it has no bunkers, but if you zoom in on the greens you will see a bunch of dark green circles. These are high rough areas, sometimes in depressions, sometimes on knobs. They are surrounded by closely mown run-off areas, defending the greens far more punitively than any bunkers I've run across. The Greenskeeper chooses which areas he'll mow and which he'll let grow long based on how the hole needs to be defended and where errant shots tend to end up. One hole I found myself on the backside of a shaggy knob in a closely mown bowl. Took me 4 more to get in. Oh how I wished I was in a bunker!

Brilliant job and very different from the typical method most courses are tended.
[/quote]
That shows the most annoying hazard ever. Too-close cart paths to greens in typical miss locations! LOL!

I would be ok with no bunkers as long as there is something as a replacement as a 'hazard' and plays similar.

I'm not sure what a grass bunker is, but I'm pretty sure you could make one much more punitive than a poorly maintained sand bunker. Real thick and long summer greenside kikuya scares me more than a sand bunker.

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1414532104' post='10364355']
That shows the most annoying hazard ever. Too-close cart paths to greens in typical miss locations! LOL!
[/quote]

Hey, if a green can be encircled by water, why can't a green be encircled by cart paths?

[quote name='Lime Shark' timestamp='1414532727' post='10364425']
[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1414532104' post='10364355']
That shows the most annoying hazard ever. Too-close cart paths to greens in typical miss locations! LOL!
[/quote]

Hey, if a green can be encircled by water, why can't a green be encircled by cart paths?
[/quote]
When they give me a hovercraft to rent for the round, then I'm fine with it!

"Home of the 6 hour round?" ^^^ LOL!

One of my local courses turned about 2/3 of the bunkers into grass - works out OK because now all of the remaining sand bunkers are well maintained and consistent. The grass, as Divots pointed out, can really offer a challenge depending on where the ball lands.

Another course simplified things by going to all shale (spelling?) bunkers. Many of them also serve as cart paths - they are hard packed.
Pros: Hard to end up with a bad lie on the sand. Easy to get a good strike.
Cons: Rough on irons; really scratches them up. And the ones that aren't used as cart paths are a forced hit - no free drops.

My 5 iron has some permanent scars from one of those bunkers.

I know the costs of maintaining those must be lower - haven't ever seen a lot of work being done to them.

Don't know if all of this will apply in the UK. Florida is definitely a different deal for courses. (setup and maintenance)

The other course I belong To had the USGA superintendents come out and do an assessment. Found out that our greens were not holding enought water. Ok, so they did the deep penetrating arriation. Next was they said the life span of a bunker was about 7 years, with good upkeep. After that the sand gets displaced and rocks start working up. Well the course didn't want to hear that, said they can get 7 more. I'm cool with that just make it a waste area so I can see how hard the dirt is.

Our little course has only three poor bunkers. We have two mower widths of short grass around the greens, then deep grass. I would much rather play from a good bunker than our deep grass. Bunker play is a skill that can be learned. Playing out of our grass is a guess every single time.