Wedge Questions

Hey WRXers, just thought I'd solicit a little advice about wedges...

Really quickly about me -- been playing for over 25 years, current index is 2.9, playing out of sea level elevation in Northern California.

Driver SS: 115-118 (gaming: TM SLDR 460 12* cranked down to 10.5, 2* open, AD-DI 7x @44.5)

6-iron SS : 94-95 (gaming: Mizuno MP-30 (2004), Royal Precision Rifle Flighted FCM 6.5)

wedges: 52/56/60 (gaming: Titleist Vokey SM5, KBS C-taper X)

Okay, now that the particulars are out of the way, here has been the wedge progression for the last 15 or so years:

Cleveland 900 Series (low bounce): 52/58 (wedge flex (DG 200), switched out to PX 6.0 for testing purposes, recently)

Mizuno MP T-series: 51.06, 56.10, 60.04 (wedge flex (DG S300))

Titleist Vokey SM5: 52.08 F, 56.10 M, 60.04 L (KBS C-taper X)

And now that that has been explained, the dilemma for me is the current feel with the Vokeys... With my previous wedges I was usually around gap= 115, sand=100, lob=80. With the aquisition of the SM5s combined with the c-tapers my distances are now gap=120, sand = 108, lob= 88 (all lies and lofts verified for all wedges).

So, distance and accuracy have been wonderful, but the feel is a bit lacking. It has been a long time since I played anything cast (ping eye2s circa 1990), but I'm wondering if it's the shaft or the club itself. Out of the clubs I just mentioned, the best feel for me was with the Cleveland 900 series, whether it had the obligatory "wedge flex" (dg200) shaft in it, or the PX 6.0 (which I swaped in just to satisfy my curiosity and get as many reps as I wanted out of it)...

I have been testing iron shafts in and out of simulators and when I could actually put them in play (demo days, etc.) and everything about my testing has put me with the KBS c-taper X (the old rifles have been ballooning on me for years -- finally have had enough so started testing so that I can find what to put in my next set). So, since I was finally changing to conforming wedges (before pulling the trigger on new irons), I decided to put them into my SM5 order (just so you all know how I ended up with them and what led me to such a departure from what I have been playing in my gamer irons and previous wedges).

I must say that my full shots with the sm5/c-taper combination has me grinning ear to ear and I couldn't be happier. The problem is, is that of course, not all of my wedge shots are from max or 90% distance, and require all sorts of different types of shotmaking.

As I have mentioned, my main issue right now is with feel, and how that is translating to actual trajectory and distance control in and around 50 yards and in (and probably more so within 25 yards - green side pitches and chipping).

I have been putting all of the wedges that I have in my posession through the paces and I keep coming back to the 900 series. What I have yet to mention is that while the 900s are producing less desirable results in the long game, I have much better control of my trajectory, spin and distance with them around the green.

So, since I've already written a book here -- the question is, would you all attribute my perceived feel issues from me not having played cast in quite some time, or would you attribute it to the shaft?

Of course, I'm going to continue all of my testing -- I was just curious what some of you folks might think...

If you made it this far -- thanks for reading, and in advance -- thanks for the advice!

Any feedback guys? Thanks.

as a vokey owner I agree.. they perform perfectly but they don't feel very good compared to some of the other wedges I've owned. it's not the shaft.. it's the head imo

Has nothing to do with cast. Shafts is the problem. I play ctaper x and they are nearly the stiffest shafts on the planet. I chose to go with HiRev x flex in my wedges to keep the high weight but gain the feel.

Only way to truly know is to try multiple shafts in multiple heads. If the Vokey shafts lack feel in the Mizunos then you know it;s the shafts.

First off, thank you both for your replies!

Interesting -- two competing theories. Georgie has pretty much summed it up for me -- while the performance is GREAT from full shots, and the greenside performance is acceptable, the feel on solid strikes with good contact just seems to be lacking "comparatively."

Albatross, yeah, I knew full on going into this that a c-taper X specs out at 7.2 and that it would be the stiffest flex that I've ever put into any iron/wedge -- but for some reason they have been performing so solidly and they actually feel soft yet stable throughout my swing and through impact. It was interesting to me because X100s straight in at 6.8 have always felt so clunky for me -- I'm assuming it just has to do with the way I load, transition, the way I perceive feel, etc.

Thanks guys, keep 'em coming if you can, it's much appreciated.

[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1416606368' post='10485073']
Only way to truly know is to try multiple shafts in multiple heads. If the Vokey shafts lack feel in the Mizunos then you know it;s the shafts.
[/quote]

Yeah, dlygrisse, that's what I'm planning on doing. I wanted to solicit as much feedback as I could, but I'm basically going to have to put a c-taper X in the 900 series and see if it kills it...

You do realize that the c-tapers in x-flex are like rebar. This is why when I had my c-tapers, I went with S+ hardstepped once. If you want more feel from your Vokey, you will need to swap out shafts or do what I did.

[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1416607288' post='10485165']
You do realize that the c-tapers in x-flex are like rebar. This is why when I had my c-tapers, I went with S+ hardstepped once. If you want more feel from your Vokey, you will need to swap out shafts or do what I did.
[/quote]

Haha, yes I do "realize" it as I've stated above -- thanks for reading...

Feel is also very subjective, but I am aware at what they spec.-out at, frequency-wise -- thanks.

[quote name='Albatross85' timestamp='1416606030' post='10485029']
Has nothing to do with cast. Shafts is the problem. I play ctaper x and they are nearly the stiffest shafts on the planet. I chose to go with HiRev x flex in my wedges to keep the high weight but gain the feel.
[/quote]

Albatross, did you by chance try the wedges with KBS Tour X flex before you pulled the trigger on the HiRevs?

I've gone back and forth about vokeys. I have the same shaft in all my wedges so I'm just comparing head to head. I really do not enjoy how they feel, but I pull off shots that I can't with my other wedges. If you end up having the same experience as me, you're just going to have to live with the feel.. or you're going to have a very expensive experiment finding another wedge with a grind that works as well for you.

I'm in the market for new wedges as my current ones are starting to get worn out, and I'm on the fence between another set of vokeys or mizunos..

[quote name='Georgie Z' timestamp='1416608383' post='10485291']
I've gone back and forth about vokeys. I have the same shaft in all my wedges so I'm just comparing head to head. I really do not enjoy how they feel, but I pull off shots that I can't with my other wedges. If you end up having the same experience as me, you're just going to have to live with the feel.. or you're going to have a very expensive experiment finding another wedge with a grind that works as well for you.

I'm in the market for new wedges as my current ones are starting to get worn out, and I'm on the fence between another set of vokeys or mizunos..
[/quote]

Thanks so much Georgie - that is great feedback!

Yeah, even with my T-series mizunos I never got the same feedback and feel that I had with the 900s. The 900s just seem to be heavier and the feeling on pured shots was akin to my iron set (mp-30s) oddly enough. The T-series was fairly nice, but the solid strike feedback was not as good, and I also noticed that if you ever catch a ball high on the face with those, that they can wreak havoc with the distance of the shot you were envisioning (usually happened more with high touch shots in and around 15 yards)...

The Vokey setup I have is producing far superior results to the T-series Mizunos I came from, and the feel is also comparatively worse with the Mizunos... The Vokeys just don't feel as good as the 900s, so I'm really trying to locate the culprit so I can get what is going to work the best for me.

But yes, Georgie I'm starting to suspect that what I am feeling is coming from the head and I have to either continue to work with them and get used to them, or change it up.

You will get different answers across the board because what each person feels and interprets is totally different.

Personally I really like the vokey TVD's. I've played them for years and now have the new sm5 TVD's. To me the performance and grind options make them a winner for me. However the feel of the vokey isn't that great compared to other wedges that are forged. I've played some forged wedges over the years that feel like butter. The Vokeys not so much but performance is great.

I've played PX 6.0, PX 6.5, kbs tour, spinner, C taper X, and X100 in wedges and for me X100 is the best. I play PX 6.5 in irons but X100's in wedges.

In short I feel it's the head not the shaft. Again though I'm more concerned with performance and proper grind. Others may feel the opposite and that's fine because like I said everybody interprets feelings differently.

I tried Vokey wedges a few times, and always come away with the same result. Not only does the ball come off feeling hot off the face, it feels as if there's no lag on the face; which is what I like to feel. However, I get the feeling I am looking for from forged wedges. Shaft profile influences feel too. Reason I have a S-200 in my LW. Its a feel club and seldom hit over 60yds, though I can hit it 80yrds, as opposed to my 53* which is mostly used for full shots and 108yds.

Where many people error, they set wedges up for full shot distances, which results in less that idealistic feel for touch shots.

Free swingr and Pepperturbo: thanks so much for the feedback.

Free swingr -- I can definitely understand you sticking with the Vokeys for all of the reasons you stated, and it makes perfect sense. Again, my experience has been largely positive with them -- just wondering if that feel difference was coming from the shaft or the club properties -- since they are both new to me. I suspect it is mostly the clubhead -- took about an hour this afternoon hitting various shots and also even just wedge-bouncing a ball around for a few minutes at a time to get a real feel of the ball on the material -- toe, heel, center, sweet spot.

Pepperturbo -- you have largely encapsulated a lot of what I am currently feeling with the Vokeys. As you touched on, it may not even be the cast vs. forged debate, it could just be the overall physical properties of the Vokeys that for some reason I perceive as not as solid feeling. I too, feel that they are quite hot off of the face -- I am seeing it both in my full shot trajectory and distances, and my closer-in pitches and chips...

Coming from the MP T-series Mizunos and the Cleveland 900s with off the rack "wedge flex" (s200/300) shafts, I was looking to lower my trajectory a touch and gain a little more distance when I switched to the Vokeys. What I saw was a significant increase in distance, and a little bit more height in launch trajectory (but the flight is piercing, there is no ballooning).

I am looking to preserve the distance (trajectory is acceptable given no ballooning), but to also recapture some feel.

For what it is worth, my MP T-series wedges also lacked on the feel side, and they were forged and had stock "wedge flex" shafts at s300. I'll have to continue playing around but I think I now have a good lead on what is causing what I perceive as "lack of feel," comparatively.

If anyone else wants to weigh in, please feel free -- and thanks!

You bring up a good point. For that, not all forgings have a soft feel. Sometime back I bought two forged Callaway wedges. I didn't have them week before taking them back. I am about as much a feel player as possible. Because of that, I have had only 3 different OEM sets of wedges over the last 15years. Also, not all hands feel shaft/head vibration output equality. A great many people that enjoy this game, have hands of lead, as a result of destroyed nerve endings that they are not aware of.

I would agree with you guys that not all forgings feel soft. A great number of forged wedges don't feel any better than cast clubs IMHO. Over the years I have run across a few forged wedges that are seriously soft. I borrowed a buddy's old srixon gap wedge years ago at the kentucky open because my gap wedge broke. (Head flew off) I would have never used that srixon forged wedge in a million years if it wasn't a big tournament and I was in a pinch. Long story short I played that wedge for 4 years. It was so soft and spinny. The ball felt like it was on the club face for a solid second at impact. It was truly a soft buttery wedge.

Anyways I guess I'm just saying that just because it's forged certainly doesn't mean it will be softer feeling than its cast counterpart.

Always enjoy talking golf with guys OP and great question by the way!!