LMAO @Kingcat990 you tell him! I'm tired of being the resident blades thread N*zi.
And @mahonie I just got done calling you a good golf daddy and now you want your son to play CBs!?!? 🤦. Now I'm tempted to call child protective service on you. 😂
There is only one solution: buy some rev33s! And please post pics after. 😁
My son is not that enamoured with the Cobras...thinks the feel is nowhere near the Mizzys. What can I say...he knows what he feels and as we know, nothing feels like a Mizuno.
Rev33s look good, but I would be worried if the designers took 33 times to get it right...ha ha.
I'm liking your son more and more the more I hear about him.
To me I see the 33 as the number of times Ricky tried to play blades that he actually wanted instead of playing what Cobra wanted him to market for them. 🤣🤣🤣
@DeNinny , just as a random aside, the RF prototype irons I held were one of the earlier iterations, not the rev33. That particular set had a sole and overall profile reminiscent of the Maxfli Australian blade TM92 model- definitely not a bad thing either😃, as to which number revision it was, no clue, all I know was that despite best efforts, was not able to acquire set- yet🤔😂
These are lovely. Simple and subtle, but the swoosh makes it feel modern.
Anyone else here regular flex guys? I have a set of MP4s that I'm going out tonight with XP 105 R300.
I bought them off Callaway Preowned late last year and put them into play until the end of the season. I was spooked the start of this season about what would happen if the wheels came off, but I figured to he|| with it. Game what you like and if the wheels come off "nut up or shut up" as the last page said :)
@Mitchell (<- edit: I don't know how to delete this address to Mitchell from my phone...argh)
@BogeyParBogey I'm borderline between reg and stiff. It really depends on the shaft model itself because the definition of it is arbitrary. Regular flex is just more flexible version of what the manufacturer deemed as Stiff flex for that particular shaft model. It's kind of like iron # and what loft it is. There's no true standard out there. My philosophy is get the lightest but also stiffest shaft possible. It is always better to err towards stiffer because when a shaft is too flexible you will lose control by bending it too much by the strength of your own swing. This won't happen with a stiffer shaft than what you "need".
With my BBs I started and got fitted for regular NS Pro 950 GHs. After that set, I self fitted myself and told my Miura fitter to put the NS Pro 850 GHs in stiff flex on my black boron BBs. Because those shafts are lighter, I gained just a little more SS and thus distance (a few yards) with them. I've also played and loved the original Rifle 5.0s by Royal Precision which are considered regular flex.
If you find yourself overpowering those 105 R300s then you need those particular shafts in stiff flex. If you hit them fine then no worries.
Thanks for the feedback. I suspect there are not many guys here using regular flex.
The MP4 round tonight was a lot of fun. The highlight was a GIR 5 iron that landed about 1.5 feet from the flag and rolled out to about 10 feet. I missed the putt by just a couple inches. Oh well!
That right there is a timeless iron design. Assuming he has no mental issue with blades, no golfer can ever go wrong with a set like that. Really nice job on the paintfill and ferrule colors too. Your 'Lime Sublimes'. 👍😍👍
As far as Nike blades go, I have hit those and the Victory Reds and Vapor Pros. I liked those and the Victory Reds. Both are great blades. I did not like the Vapor Pros by comparison.
Nice shot! Must have been beautiful to watch in the afterglow of nutting it. I like all great iron shots but there's something about a great 5i shot that's even sweeter. To me if you get to be confident with your 5i then it helps to build your confidence in all the longer irons. So when I hit a good shot with one I feel like a true iron player. But also for me they still check up decent like you highlighted getting 10 feet of roll, so you can still flag seek with one. 4i and longer I'm usually playing for the front of the green and some roll instead.
I'm not surprised regarding stiff flex players in here. It's the safer option always. All shafts will flex when you swing them with acceleration. It's inevitable. So a stiff shaft will still kick through impact no different, other than in the amount of bending, than a more flexible one will. Plus a more bending shaft will be more inconsistent because it adds more movement to the clubhead during the swing, adding another variable to it. And then on top of this you can reach the point of overpowering the shaft if it is too flexible. Ultimately this is all why stiffer is the safer shaft choice.
And regarding regular flex, they are simply lighter versions of their stiffer counterparts. If you ever study shaft specs of the same model, you'll see that regular flex is always lighter and x flex is always heavier. This is because the weight and stiffness are interrelated. It's no different than a full grown tree being stiffer than its younger sapling. So the real reason you should go to regular flex when you get older is because they are lighter in weight rather than because they are more flexible. And because your SS is also slower, you don't end up overpowering the more flexible reg flex.
In short 'tis always better to play a shaft that is as stiff and as light as you can get away with without overpowering it. And the only reason too stiff doesn't work out for you is because it is getting too heavy which slows down your SS.
Edit: I say all this with the assumption that the shaft gives you the right flight trajectory which is yet another complication in shaft selection.
Also wanted to add that I play a strong 3w as my driver and when I shafted it I thought it was fine with my "standard" at reg flex. I ended up buying it in X-flex before I got the fit right. It was so light I had to get it in the X-flex. And this is with a 90 mph average driver swing.
I apologize, but I must raise a small objection. 🤔☺️
Weight and flex are not always interrelated. As one example, we can look at DGS300 and DGX100 tapered iron shafts. They are the same weight, but DGX100 is stiffer. If you bring DGS400 into the comparison, it's actually heavier than DGX1000, yet softer. In this case (these cases?), the difference is shaft design, the tip section of DGX is 2" less than that of the DGS models.
No need to apologize, my brother NRJyzr. I completely agree! Your point is exactly why I stated "of the same model" in my explanation of the weight vs flex correlation. So to this point and per your own examples, that correlation only applies within the DGS line. Also, the DGX line will have its own correlation of weight vs flex.
The other factor you are bringing up is the literal shaft shape differences between models. At a given weight (<- disclaimer *ALERT*) the shape of the shaft can also affect its stiffness. You called it design difference, but we are saying the same thing. Hypothetically speaking and at the same weight AND length, you could also have a square hollow body shaft and a round (cylindrical) hollow body shaft, and they too will absolutely have a different flex even though they are the same weight
As usual, we are on the same page, brother! 👬 Thanks for emphasizing that point!
To further emphasize this same physics, the same thing is going on with the face flex of irons. At a given weight, the shape of the head matters! If a lot of that weight is placed behind the ball at impact, which is the case with a blade, then that clubface will be stiffer than the clubface of a cavity back clubhead where the weight (mass) behind the ball at impact is less.
If you really want to understand it all, the core physics of both of these cases is explained by the temporary deformation mathematics of materials science using the Young's, bulk, and shear moduli:
Considering them as a whole, all three of these factors can explain how any solid material temporarily deforms, which always will happen to the shaft and clubface during the swing and at impact. And knowing the actual values of these three moduli for SS shafts and forged carbon steel clubheads, one could apply all of this mathematics to the literal shapes of both of them and actually calculate their literal flexes with numerical values.
Regardless, it could be easily measured AND quantified. But why would a club manufacturer ever do that when they can leave the ignorant masses confused? 🤷😝
Just to add a slightly different dimension to this discussion, this article talks about weight distribution in shafts and the impact on overall club MOI (not clubhead MOI which is pretty meaningless). I cannot claim to fully understand the stats, but I get the general gist:
I admit I used "design" because I couldn't think of better words in my early morning, caffeine deprived, state. LOL
LMAO and I thought I was long winded! To put it simply, think of an ice skater spinning with her arms extended in the cross position. Ignoring friction, she is going to spin at a certain rate and her hands will be at a specific linear velocity. Now add some weight to her wrists. From Newton's Laws of Motion she will definitely spin at a slower rate and thus the linear velocity of her hands will SLOW down. It's really simple physics.
And for me this is exactly why I don't like that weight my Miura fitter put into my 1i BB just to match swing weight of my other irons! He had the best intention of doing this (I think), but I just don't get the right distance with it even on a great strike. The distance overlaps that of my 2i and theoretically that weight he put at the shaft tip is one of the reasons!
This is exactly why one should NOT obsess too much about matching swing weight throughout the set. It affects clubhead speed for sure!
"(not clubhead MOI which is pretty meaningless)"
@mahonie you are absolutely correct on this one. I've tried to explain this point numerous times but there are ignorant folks that just don't get this. The clubhead will NEVER rotate at the point of impact. Why? Because of its connection to the shaft! 🤦🤦🤦
At the very instant that any force, no matter how miniscule or big, is applied to the clubface, which is held in that position by virtue of being physically attached to the shaft, it will begin to rotate open with the fulcrum at the shaft. It really is this simple, but "forgiving" club manufacturers wouldn't ever be able to market a high MOI clubhead as "forgiving" if so. 🤷🤦
I like this one too:
What they just analyzed in depth with simulation models and using actual empirical data is something one can simply imagine using Newton's Laws of Motion and that materials science of temporary deformation that I posted earlier. Using computer simulation they did that mathematics that I was mentioning.
Imagine if you could have a free floating, detached clubhead and you could literally launch it into the ball at, say, 100 mph. Then compare this scenario to the normal one with the clubhead attached to the shaft and at the same speed. Just using common sense, do you really think the resulting ball flights would be the same?!?! Answer: I think NOT. 🤔🤪
Even if it were launched perfectly, that free floating clubhead would itself hit the ball and then "rebound" backwards from impact because, once again, it has nothing to support it from the ball's force of impact with it. Without needing a computer model to tell me I can tell you unequivocally that the final ball speed would be lower than the case of the clubhead attached to the shaft.
Moreover imagine now if that free floating clubhead were just slightly off square impact. It wasn't a perfect launch. In that collision the clubhead would rebound and spin off the ball and once again the ball would not fly at nearly the same velocity as it would with the attached head.
As stated, the model of a high MOI clubhead twisting around the point of impact is completely meaningless. It's literally not reality. Thus, any claim that such a clubhead is "forgiving", in that context, is also meaningless. 🤗
Final conclusion: blades are not unforgiving. 😁😁😁
@mahonie to explain it further in simple terms, the shaft provides key (and necessary) support to the clubface. That support is what makes the clubface a solid surface onto which the ball can compress itself and then rebound (decompress) off the face.
The clubface doesn't just push the ball away at impact. During impact, the ball "squishes" (compresses) into the face (which also flexes but that is a separate point) and then to transition out of impact the ball "springs" (decompresses from its compressed state) off that relatively stable clubface. And that stability is...wait for it... because...of...the...shaft...connection. 🤗
LOL taking it even further, when you evaluate the clubface side of the physics, at impact the more flexible face literally flexes more and bends to the shape of the ball, BUT...at the same exact time this ends up compressing the ball LESS. So any amount of increased "spring" from a flexing face at the end of impact is equally that much LESS compression on the ball. So the ball's "spring" itself is thus also LESS.
The net result is that a flexing face does NOT launch the ball off the face any more than a less flexing face. All other things equal of course.
But when you read the faux marketing "science" in the advertisements for "forgiving" flexing face clubs with their "hot faces" that results in "explosive" ball speed, they always leave out the part about LESS compression on the ball. But yet this is their reality too. 🤦🤷
Sweet Jesus! I'm in the Blade Users thread and DeNinny's talking physics. Is this 2017 again??😁
Admittedly, 2017 would be an improvement on 2020...
I have a couple of sets in regular flex. One is a set of Wilson FG-J8s, which a basically FG-17s, and the other Mizuno MS-11s with Precision FM 5.5 shafts. Both work for me. The Precisions are fine as long as I don't go after the ball too much, and I really like whatever shaft is in the Wilsons. Incidentally, I have a different set of irons with Precision 6.5,, and I would go for the 5.5 over the 6.5. I really should try the 6.0 as that should be right in my zone.
LOL @No_Catchy_Nickname I'm sorry my blade ho brother but it is very hard for me to decouple physics from golf (because it's a freaking game of physics and I'm an analytical AF engineer...so sue me...) and from my blades use. They are all intertwined in my head. When I think of golf I think of also my blades and golf physics. I can't help it. And then when I get on a roll I can't stop.
Also I think all golfers have used their own understanding of the physics to influence their own club choices. I just take it to another level but fundamentally I don't see myself as any different. Blade using and golf ARE physics to me.
Anyway I'm good (for now).
After 6 months of pretty much not playing any golf I finally played a full 18 today. Shot 45-42 which I'm totally fine with considering my time off, and after shooting 51 over 9 two weeks ago I feel pretty good. So good that I cleaned my "Cal Hotties" backup BBs bag. Here they are nice and pretty.
Tomorrow it's "P*rn Stars" time. Time for the gamer bag. Black boron BBs, here I come! 🤗
The shot of the day today was my first approach shot on #1. I was 160yds out with a lie below my feet and a 5mph left to right headwind. Pulled my 4i and hit a sweet cut left of the pin and it landed a little short left but bounced right and rolled forward past the pin only by 6'. I missed the putt by burning the edge. Oh well. Still made par. It felt so sweet and it was my best shot since coming back to the game. Definitely boosted my confidence after the abyssal 51 two weeks ago. And throughout the round it was my putter and driver that did me in. Had about 4 three putts and dunked two drives into water. But as usual, my BBs were there for me. My good old reliables.
Also I let one of the guys I was paired with hit my 7i too. It was hilarious. I had just hit my shot with it, 150 yds, over water, downhill and downwind pin. I put it at the back of the green 25' out from the cup. The dude was playing ginormous CBs and with only an average shot, not pure but not a miss hit, he hits my 7i right at the pin to within 10'. He was like, "I could feel that wasn't a great shot, but that wasn't so bad." I was laughing as I told him that I do that all the time, that "forgiveness" is overrated, and my clubs are more forgiving and easy to hit than any club I've ever tried. LOL I think he is still dumbfounded about that shot. 🤪
I've played G15s on off from 2013 and have done ok with them. There's a feeling that is more... visceral is the best word I can come up with right now, when you flush an iron that is made from softer metal. I feel like there's a sense of accomplishment too. The SGI iron marketing leads you to believe they are saving you, but with the MP4s I feel like it is all me. Whether it is good or bad I did that. That's probably all a bit of bull, they're just golf clubs after all, I do get the feeling it is real golf though.
Blades tell you the truth about your own swing. Their feedback is like a lie detector. They enable you to know through the literal feel in your hands, and even in your arms, exactly what kind of impact - the good, the bad, the ugly - that you just put on the ball. And feedback is a gift. And blades give it to you better than any other club. For this alone they are worth playing, but there are tangible performance benefits to them too.
There's no bull in any of this and in your post. I call it seeing the game and your swing in 4K ultra high definition. Whereas CBs and "forgiving" clubs are like seeing it in standard to low definition.
Thought I'd share a few pics of the bag I played on Friday. Also shared these on the Persimmon Golf Society group on the bookface, FWIW.
I'm continuing my Old Skool Golf, and was testing a second driver Friday. Yesterday's round, I had only 14 clubs in the bag (pulled the Smart Driver). Golden Ram TW282's, 1-PW, a Golden Ram TW805 driver, a Louisville Smart Driver, a Golden Ram 3w from mid 80s, a Ram TG-898 56*, and my Cleveland Huntington Beach 1 putter.
Lofts are set from 19* to 51* for the 2-PW, the 1 iron shows as 16* on my protractor using my Auditor Club Ruler.
Yes, I like lead tape. LOL
Here's a pic of the face of the 1 iron, so you can all appreciate just how square the toe is on these.
@NRJyzr How are those woods working out with the modern ball? Every time I hit a modern ball with an old school wood it feels weird and I don't get great distance.
And although I don't like doing it myself, you put that lead tape in the most ideal spot to me. Back behind impact and across the entire head is ideal. LOL like a lead tape boss. 😁
Sweet bag! Those Tour Grinds are no nonsense and look in great shape. I like that wedge too.
I've been playing a little, but not practising at all, and it shows in my scores. My game is pretty sloppy, especially around the greens.
Nice looking irons. I've never heard of the Smart driver before, so I looked it up. 220cc persimmon head? I've a Wood Bros Corker, which has part of the head hollowed out and filled with cork, which makes it lighter, thus enabling a slightly larger head, but I don't think it's anywhere close to 220cc.
The Corker's pretty interesting. Catch one properly and the ball seems to defy gravity and just keep on floating. The first time I took it out, I hit two enormous drives with it, both of which were yards past my playing partners who were hitting modern drivers.
When you've only had experience hitting steel and Ti woods, and put your first persimmon or laminate in play, it is indeed a rather different feel. It takes some adjustment. For me, it's every time I put them in play, if I'd been playing metal woods previously.
I remember Padraig Harrington hitting some 50 year old clubs, back around his Open Championship years. He did it with a launch monitor, it showed his persimmon driver gave him a much lower flight and less spin than his Ti driver. That's probably the biggest difference with the modern golfballs, they don't spin as much as wound balls, so a bit of trajectory assistance may be necessary.
For me, I've tended to be a higher spin player off the tee, it hasn't posed much problem for my game. That said, there are signs my spin production with woods may be decreasing in my mid-50s. Father Time, Undefeated and Undisputed Champion. 😉 I'm down some distance on average, but it's hard to tell how much is offseason rust and how much is from the expected difference between a 190cc block of wood and a 460cc hollow titanium oddly shaped orb. I've had a few quality shots here and there.
For you, DeNinny, I would expect a 2 wood would be a better choice, if you're going to play a wooden club. It would essentially be the same as your 3w you use as a tee club. Maybe a Ping laminate driver, Eye2 or Zing, in red dot, would be around 13.5*, IIRC. You could probably even find one on fleabay with graphite, if you're so inclined, I've seen several out there.
Thanks. For full disclosure the last persimmon wood I hit was my father-in-law's and it felt pretty heavy too, with a steel shaft and all, which was probably more the reason for the low distance than anything else.
As to myself with old school, I still have my Mizuno 'Altron' set with CBs and graphite head woods. Graphite shafts in all the clubs too. If I do want to go old school I'll probably take the woods out for a spin. I don't think there's a distance loss compared to modern heads because they are the right weight for me. And yeah they too feel really different than my titanium face woods.
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