Why swinging over the top is good and how is shallows the swing.

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  • TB07TB07  6110WRX Points: 148Members Posts: 6,110 Titanium Tees
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    The definition is what it is. Early extension. Early, meaning in most golf swing observations as downswing. Loses tush line in backswing because he doesn't get very deep, but does not early extend in downswing.
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  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5764WRX Points: 476Members Posts: 5,764 Titanium Tees
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    Tb and lv, look at post 112, notice how he comes off the tush line more starting his downswing compared to top of backswing. What do you call that?
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  • NCHACK85NCHACK85 Dropping Putts and Hitting Darts  1151WRX Points: 3Handicap: BeerMembers Posts: 1,151 Platinum Tees
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    I'm not a pro and never really thought about this until a friend posted an ugly swing from another of his friend. Would a vertical to vertical would be a player will throw it over his shoulder, like a lumberjack would do? I normally don't say anything about a swing but it looked like his downswing came over his head and the ball went 45* backwards on his body side. And he did it twice in a row.
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  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5764WRX Points: 476Members Posts: 5,764 Titanium Tees
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    NCHACK85 wrote:


    I'm not a pro and never really thought about this until a friend posted an ugly swing from another of his friend. Would a vertical to vertical would be a player will throw it over his shoulder, like a lumberjack would do? I normally don't say anything about a swing but it looked like his downswing came over his head and the ball went 45* backwards on his body side. And he did it twice in a row.




    If your don't have the right move to shallow from steep, you will start down steep and then shallow at the last minute and hit out to the right
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  • NCHACK85NCHACK85 Dropping Putts and Hitting Darts  1151WRX Points: 3Handicap: BeerMembers Posts: 1,151 Platinum Tees
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    Redjeep83 wrote:

    NCHACK85 wrote:


    I'm not a pro and never really thought about this until a friend posted an ugly swing from another of his friend. Would a vertical to vertical would be a player will throw it over his shoulder, like a lumberjack would do? I normally don't say anything about a swing but it looked like his downswing came over his head and the ball went 45* backwards on his body side. And he did it twice in a row.




    If your don't have the right move to shallow from steep, you will start down steep and then shallow at the last minute and hit out to the right




    Got it. Thanks.
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  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5764WRX Points: 476Members Posts: 5,764 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 15, 2015 #127
    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Tb and lv, look at post 112, notice how he comes off the tush line more starting his downswing compared to top of backswing. What do you call that?




    Also notice, he has barely come off tush line at the top of backswing. When he goes into downswing and shaft flattens is when he does EE. In other words on the downswing. I learned this from a really good instructor who has been teaching for over 25 years and has pga tour players calling him while I'm there
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  • coopscoops  1267WRX Points: 195Members Posts: 1,267 Platinum Tees
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    As a pivot stalling flip hook goat humper... I'd love to be able to 'goat hump' like Furyk. image/swoon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':swoon:' />



    As mentioned, goat humping is usually associated with the hips thrusting forwards towards the target line in the downswing... hence the humping reference.



    Furyk apparently does the opposite in his downswing? Like a withdrawal method? CI move - the golf coitus interruptus swing.
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  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5764WRX Points: 476Members Posts: 5,764 Titanium Tees
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    Any time your butt moves off the tush line you are taking away space for your right elbow to get in front
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  • TB07TB07  6110WRX Points: 148Members Posts: 6,110 Titanium Tees
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    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Any time your butt moves off the tush line you are taking away space for your right elbow to get in front




    Correct, Furyk is definitely stuck but not EE. Can you forward post #112? I'm ony phone and it doesn't have the #'s.
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  • lv_2_hacklv_2_hack Texas 2341WRX Points: 113Members Posts: 2,341 Platinum Tees
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    Redjeep83 wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Tb and lv, look at post 112, notice how he comes off the tush line more starting his downswing compared to top of backswing. What do you call that?




    Also notice, he has barely come off tush line at the top of backswing. When he goes into downswing and shaft flattens is when he does EE. In other words on the downswing. I learned this from a really good instructor who has been teaching for over 25 years and has pga tour players calling him while I'm there




    I'll reply more in depth later but look at the pictures I posted. The 2 lines i drew were tush line at setup and tush line at the top of the backswing. I wouldn't call that barely.



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  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5764WRX Points: 476Members Posts: 5,764 Titanium Tees
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    lv_2_hack wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Tb and lv, look at post 112, notice how he comes off the tush line more starting his downswing compared to top of backswing. What do you call that?




    Also notice, he has barely come off tush line at the top of backswing. When he goes into downswing and shaft flattens is when he does EE. In other words on the downswing. I learned this from a really good instructor who has been teaching for over 25 years and has pga tour players calling him while I'm there




    I'll reply more in depth later but look at the pictures I posted. The 2 lines i drew were tush line at setup and tush line at the top of the backswing. I wouldn't call that barely.




    we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Im dont want to drag this thread out anymore on this. You asked me to show you Jim Furyk coming off the tush line, Look at my post #112 in this thread. You can keep moving the goals posts but I showed you
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  • Kiwi2Kiwi2  1059WRX Points: 2Members Posts: 1,059 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Feb 15, 2015 #133
    Redjeep83 wrote:

    lv_2_hack wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Tb and lv, look at post 112, notice how he comes off the tush line more starting his downswing compared to top of backswing. What do you call that?




    Also notice, he has barely come off tush line at the top of backswing. When he goes into downswing and shaft flattens is when he does EE. In other words on the downswing. I learned this from a really good instructor who has been teaching for over 25 years and has pga tour players calling him while I'm there




    I'll reply more in depth later but look at the pictures I posted. The 2 lines i drew were tush line at setup and tush line at the top of the backswing. I wouldn't call that barely.




    we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Im dont want to drag this thread out anymore on this. You asked me to show you Jim Furyk coming off the tush line, Look at my post #112 in this thread. You can keep moving the goals posts but I showed you




    Early extension is the lower body moving towards the ball during the downswing. The hips and spine straighten up too early and the hips and pelvis move closer to the ball. That is why is is called goat humping.



    TPI defines it in one instance "as any forward movement (thrust) of the lower body towards the golf ball during the downswing. Then in another it says "it is simply defined as any forward movement of the pelvis toward the ball on the backswing or downswing."

    But in the later description, they referring to there having been no recovery from the extension by impact.

    If a golfer recovers his angles at impact, imo he hasn't early extended.



    Furyk doesn't early extend. Look at the images below.



    Furyk_zps0lyihpem.jpg



    Look at the spine angle at the top. It is the same as at set up. Look at it at impact.

    His pelvis is the same distance from the ball at impact as it is at the top of his swing.
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  • Kiwi2Kiwi2  1059WRX Points: 2Members Posts: 1,059 Bunkers
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    lv_2_hack wrote:


    Best I can come up with is Craig Perry.




    I think you may have meant Craig Parry.



    "If Ben Hogan saw that he'd puke" Jonny Miller sure made a lot of friends downunder that week.



    [media=]
    Posted:
  • lv_2_hacklv_2_hack Texas 2341WRX Points: 113Members Posts: 2,341 Platinum Tees
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    Redjeep83 wrote:

    lv_2_hack wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Tb and lv, look at post 112, notice how he comes off the tush line more starting his downswing compared to top of backswing. What do you call that?




    Also notice, he has barely come off tush line at the top of backswing. When he goes into downswing and shaft flattens is when he does EE. In other words on the downswing. I learned this from a really good instructor who has been teaching for over 25 years and has pga tour players calling him while I'm there




    I'll reply more in depth later but look at the pictures I posted. The 2 lines i drew were tush line at setup and tush line at the top of the backswing. I wouldn't call that barely.




    we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Im dont want to drag this thread out anymore on this. You asked me to show you Jim Furyk coming off the tush line, Look at my post #112 in this thread. You can keep moving the goals posts but I showed you




    How am I moving the goal posts? This all started from you stating that decent players could still steepen from a vertical backswing. The only mistake I made was referring to Furyk losing his 'tushline', which he does in the backswing. But he isn't a goat humper, nor does he EE on the downswing. If I had said EE instead of referring to tush line, you wouldn't have anything to stand on.



    EE is obviously early extension. That early 'extension' is referring to the spine extending. Furyk's spine doesn't extend at all. As kiwi noticed he maintains spine angle like a champ.



    I personally think EE is WAY overblown, but since you asked, I would simply state that EE is the loss of posture from p5 to impact.





    Common traits of EEer's include: loss of spine angle, standing shaft up at impact, right heel coming off the ground very early in downswing (toward ball, not target), overactive hips, very vertical shaft at p5 to p5.5 (but can also be very underneath as well), loss of tush line from p5 to impact, hips working toward the ball into impact with ZERO rotation and loss of posture, head working up vertically and so on and so forth.



    Now, how many of these traits does Furyk have? I say zero. In fact he does the opposite of many of these. He stays in spine flexion too long, he increases his tush line from top of the backswing until impact. And last but not least, that camera angle in your pic/video is down the target line (WAY to far to the right) and not on the hand line. Almost every golfer on tour would lose their tush line at the start of their downswing due to their hips rotating. They will appear to come off the line until the left glute reapears.
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  • lv_2_hacklv_2_hack Texas 2341WRX Points: 113Members Posts: 2,341 Platinum Tees
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    Kiwi2 wrote:

    lv_2_hack wrote:


    Best I can come up with is Craig Perry.




    I think you may have meant Craig Parry.



    "If Ben Hogan saw that he'd puke" Jonny Miller sure made a lot of friends downunder that week.



    [media=]




    Darn iphone auto correct...
    Posted:
    Lots of Callaway Stuff
  • lv_2_hacklv_2_hack Texas 2341WRX Points: 113Members Posts: 2,341 Platinum Tees
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    FatReed wrote:

    lv_2_hack wrote:


    This is goat humping.... Furyk is still a PETA member.







    Iv, I love that bottom pic . . . the right lower extremity alignment is worth a thousand words.



    I posted a thread not too long ago about how many people who shank with abbreviated swings (9/3-type pitch shots) early extend. That right foot coming of the ground and associated movement of the right hip out toward the ball drives the hands/club head 'out' . . . shanks just waiting to happen. Anyway, my suggestion in the prior thread was to concentrate on keeping that right foot planted as an exercise to address shanks that occur with abbreviated swings. In truth, my thread and suggestion were relegated to the likes of a Carey post, nonetheless, I stand by my thoughts.



    Great pics Iv.




    Sorry if I accused you of being CS. He had been everywhere during that time and was advocating some of the same stuff you were...



    I totally agree. If someone asked me what the MAIN cause of EE was, I'd say overactive lower body. Hips firing too fast.



    In Houston with Monte, we had 2-3 guys with very active lower bodies. I had them hit half swing/half speed 6 irons where I got down on the turf behind them and held their rear heel down. Improved their contact immediately.
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    Lots of Callaway Stuff
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  • lv_2_hacklv_2_hack Texas 2341WRX Points: 113Members Posts: 2,341 Platinum Tees
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    For those playing along at home (if anyone even cares at this point) here is a certified goat herder vs Furyk. Does Fuyrk exhibit any traits of an Early Extender?



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  • jurr80jurr80 Working daily towards scratch  1075WRX Points: 85Handicap: 10.7Members Posts: 1,075 Platinum Tees
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    Goats are safe with old Jimbo!
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  • FatReedFatReed FatReed  601WRX Points: 1Unregistered Posts: 601 Bunkers
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    lv_2_hack wrote:

    FatReed wrote:

    lv_2_hack wrote:


    This is goat humping.... Furyk is still a PETA member.







    Iv, I love that bottom pic . . . the right lower extremity alignment is worth a thousand words.



    I posted a thread not too long ago about how many people who shank with abbreviated swings (9/3-type pitch shots) early extend. That right foot coming of the ground and associated movement of the right hip out toward the ball drives the hands/club head 'out' . . . shanks just waiting to happen. Anyway, my suggestion in the prior thread was to concentrate on keeping that right foot planted as an exercise to address shanks that occur with abbreviated swings. In truth, my thread and suggestion were relegated to the likes of a Carey post, nonetheless, I stand by my thoughts.



    Great pics Iv.




    Sorry if I accused you of being CS. He had been everywhere during that time and was advocating some of the same stuff you were...



    I totally agree. If someone asked me what the MAIN cause of EE was, I'd say overactive lower body. Hips firing too fast.



    In Houston with Monte, we had 2-3 guys with very active lower bodies. I had them hit half swing/half speed 6 irons where I got down on the turf behind them and held their rear heel down. Improved their contact immediately.




    Iv, no worries, it wasn't the first - nor last - time a post of mine won't be 'embraced' on this forum :-)
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  • Pinsplitter59Pinsplitter59  976WRX Points: 3Members Posts: 976 Golden Tee
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    Furyk will never be any good, he's got his right elbow behind his right hip.
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  • Denny71Denny71  536WRX Points: 0Handicap: +1Banned Posts: 536
    Joined:  edited Feb 15, 2015 #142
    So many ways to play golf



    What is the only universal position we must all have



    Anyone?
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  • JonnybagadonutsJonnybagadonuts  1089WRX Points: 35Handicap: 3Members Posts: 1,089 Bunkers
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    Jim furyk goat humps ? . Whoever made that statement makes the golf teachers of the world happy there are people like you keeping them in business .







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  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5764WRX Points: 476Members Posts: 5,764 Titanium Tees
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    Does jim come off tush line at all during swing, yes he does. That's all I said, it's a fact
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  • Kiwi2Kiwi2  1059WRX Points: 2Members Posts: 1,059 Bunkers
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    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Does jim come off tush line at all during swing, yes he does. That's all I said, it's a fact




    C'mon Red. That just isn't right. You repeatedly said and continued to say he early extends.



    Your words:



    "Jim furyk goes back extremely steep and EE sometimes to help him shallow "



    "I know Jim's swing, lol. I talked with instructors about it, I didnt know he EE until I asked them who does on tour. He EE a bit on backswing and a little bit more on downswing when he shallows shaft, then turns really hard and left hip gets closer to tush line later in swing. "



    "lv, he EE a tiny bit on backswing, starting downswing and shallowing of shaft he EE a little bit more by the time he gets to impact he is so open that his left hip has gotten back to the tush line. Point is, he does EE a little when he tries to shallow."



    "Not sure how else to show you that he EE more when he starts to shallow on downswing, pictures I posted prove it"



    "Also notice, he has barely come off tush line at the top of backswing. When he goes into downswing and shaft flattens is when he does EE. In other words on the downswing."
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  • TB07TB07  6110WRX Points: 148Members Posts: 6,110 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 23, 2015 #146
    Reds a good guy. Just admit you were wrong about EE. Say you confused tush line with EE and we all move on. Don't be like some of these other knuckle heads who will never admit their wrong and look worse and worse with each post. You are better than that R.
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  • TB07TB07  6110WRX Points: 148Members Posts: 6,110 Titanium Tees
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    So many ways to play golf



    What is the only universal position we must all have



    Anyone?




    None. You have to control impact, but the impact position itself is not universal.
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  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5764WRX Points: 476Members Posts: 5,764 Titanium Tees
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    the problem here is semantics. I only meant he comes off the tush line at some point before impact which is when you are suppose to extend, anytime before and it's early extending, it was a term that describes itself. I said he recovers at impact. So the question is what do you call loss of spine angle if you recover at impact? It can still cause damage to your swing. Just a definition issue. Not every early extension is exactly the same, some do it on bsckswing, some do it on diwnswing and some do it on both, yep jim recovers by impact but it can still cause issues in someone's swing
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  • Andrew McGee IIAndrew McGee II Division II baby : PGM Student  19WRX Points: 0Handicap: +1Members Posts: 19
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    TB07 wrote:



    So many ways to play golf



    What is the only universal position we must all have



    Anyone?




    None. You have to control impact, but the impact position itself is not universal.


    Controlling ball dispersion and low point should be your only goal. This is what makes all handicap golfers play better and enjoy the game. Stop worrying about the Ben Hogan look which is why Dan Iteach is the best on here.

    If you only listen to Dan, you will play better golf
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  • eightironeightiron  3136WRX Points: 0Banned Posts: 3,136
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    TB07 wrote:



    So many ways to play golf



    What is the only universal position we must all have



    Anyone?




    None. You have to control impact, but the impact position itself is not universal.


    Controlling ball dispersion and low point should be your only goal. This is what makes all handicap golfers play better and enjoy the game. Stop worrying about the Ben Hogan look which is why Dan Iteach is the best on here.

    If you only listen to Dan, you will play better golf




    Nice try Cary Vpn or proxy?
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  • psufishpsufish  209WRX Points: 64Handicap: 7Members Posts: 209 Fairways
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    TB07 wrote:



    So many ways to play golf



    What is the only universal position we must all have



    Anyone?




    None. You have to control impact, but the impact position itself is not universal.


    Controlling ball dispersion and low point should be your only goal. This is what makes all handicap golfers play better and enjoy the game. Stop worrying about the Ben Hogan look which is why Dan Iteach is the best on here.

    If you only listen to Dan, you will play better golf




    You seem to know a lot about the history of this forum for only having joined it yesterday...
    Posted:
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