"Made for" vs. After Market Shaft

Just curious, is there any significant difference between, let's say, Diamana made for Titleist, vs. Diamana without the "made for"; or 757 Speeder for Taylormade vs. 757 you bought aftermarket.

Well if its a "Made for" shaft its a watered down version of the aftermarket shaft. In the past shafts were like that (except for TM's TP version) but in recent years to entice more buyers buying their clubs, the OEMs would put in the real deal shafts in most of their drivers and woods.

There is usually a small difference in weight and sometimes stiffness. The made for shafts will be weighted differently than their aftermarket counterparts to better match the desired swingweight of the OEM's driver head. This saves the manufacturer time by not having to adjust swingweight on every production model. Stiffness may be weakened in some models to make them fit the everyday golfer better. OEM's realize most golfers have an ego and want shafts that are too stiff for them - we all want X Flex. So... they'll reduce the CPM to an S+ and mark it as a X. They will also stamp the lofts lower than actual loft for the same reason, but that's a different story.

This said, the materials and design are the same quality as the aftermarket version.

"Made for" shafts are for posers. Guys that go around the course with staff bags and iron covers. No self respecting GolfWRX'er would go there.

They aren't really watered down. Typically just slightly different specs. Mostly on older Diamanas, not Fujis.

Completely dependent on the specific made for version. It can be a completely different shaft or it can be a very minor tweak. Cant make any assumptions about them either way - always treat them just like any other different shaft.

Agreed - they're generally a "watered down" spec. I played my college golf with the MFT Blueboard that came stock in the 909. It was noticeably weaker than a real BB. Still a solid shaft, still comes from MRC, it's just not a BB.

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1426169571' post='11127941']
"Made for" shafts are for posers. Guys that go around the course with staff bags and iron covers. No self respecting GolfWRX'er would go there.
[/quote]

It would probably be more accurate to say that aftermarket shafts are for posers.

And here we go . But regardless, as others have said, minor tweaks for the most part if you're talking about the "Made for Titleist" shafts. Others, however, had entirely different proprietary shafts. If I recall correctly, Nike and Cleveland had proprietary Diamana shafts for their drivers and fairway woods a few years back. Taylor Made also has some proprietary shafts from Fuji and Matrix that they've used (Speeder 57 and whatever the Matrix in the Jetspeed was). Surely others are on the list as well.

[quote name='stuey01' timestamp='1426171094' post='11128105']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1426169571' post='11127941']
"Made for" shafts are for posers. Guys that go around the course with staff bags and iron covers. No self respecting GolfWRX'er would go there.
[/quote]

It would probably be more accurate to say that aftermarket shafts are for posers.
[/quote]

I think some sarcasm was missed here.

[quote name='Liquid_A_45' timestamp='1426171665' post='11128185']
[quote name='stuey01' timestamp='1426171094' post='11128105']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1426169571' post='11127941']
"Made for" shafts are for posers. Guys that go around the course with staff bags and iron covers. No self respecting GolfWRX'er would go there.
[/quote]

It would probably be more accurate to say that aftermarket shafts are for posers.
[/quote]

I think some sarcasm was missed here.
[/quote]
Fair cop guv.

A lot of this years premium drivers have a real deal shaft as standard plus more options at no extra cost. The differences are varied including slightly different bend profiles, torque values and lower cost materials in construction (more resin less fibre). The made for Titleists you used as your example are missing Mitisibushi's premium 5ct quality standard.

EDIT: I stand corrected on the exact meaning of the 5ct marking, although it is still a means of differenticiating real Mitisibushi shafts from OEM versions of Mitisibushi shaft lines.

http://www.mitsubishirayongolf.com/faq.php?lang=en#12

It is perfectly possible to get optimum performance from a made for shaft, plus with the wide range of no cost custom options it should be possible for most people to find a suitable combination without paying an up charge.

[quote name='redhead' timestamp='1426168940' post='11127881']
Just curious, is there any significant difference between, let's say, Diamana made for Titleist, vs. Diamana without the "made for"; or 757 Speeder for Taylormade vs. 757 you bought aftermarket.
[/quote]

Contrary to internet myth, no difference.

This subject won't yield any results if you plug it in the search function, good thing the OP started a thread about it.

I tend to get quite superstitious about removing the made for shaft if its performing well for me on the course. I'm very afraid of losing the club's "mojo" by replacing an OEM shaft that i'm playing well with.

[quote name='sphna12d' timestamp='1426174211' post='11128497']
I tend to get quite superstitious about removing the made for shaft if its performing well for me on the course. I'm very afraid of losing the club's "mojo" by replacing an OEM shaft that i'm playing well with.
[/quote]

Good policy.

[quote name='sphna12d' timestamp='1426174211' post='11128497']
I tend to get quite superstitious about removing the made for shaft if its performing well for me on the course. I'm very afraid of losing the club's "mojo" by replacing an OEM shaft that i'm playing well with.
[/quote]

Nothing wrong with that...if it works, don't fix it...

[quote name='sphna12d' timestamp='1426174211' post='11128497']
I tend to get quite superstitious about removing the made for shaft if its performing well for me on the course. I'm very afraid of losing the club's "mojo" by replacing an OEM shaft that i'm playing well with.
[/quote]

Not a bad idea
Last year I started out with a g25 driver stock TFC R flex.
Tried 2 Miyazakis, 3 Aldilas and a Diamana S+. Ended up back with a TFC S flex as the top performer for me.

This year's gamer for me (g30), I didn't get along with the TFC but the Ping/UST Tour 65 has been a winner.

[quote name='DaveMac' timestamp='1426173543' post='11128417'] A lot of this years premium drivers have a real deal shaft as standard plus more options at no extra cost. The differences are varied including slightly different bend profiles, torque values and lower cost materials in construction (more resin less fibre). The made for Titleists you used as your example are missing Mitisibushi's premium 5ct quality standard. It is perfectly possible to get optimum performance from a made for shaft, plus with the wide range of no cost custom options it should be possible for most people to find a suitable combination without paying an up charge. [/quote]
I have always wondered what the 5ct means on my Diamana...

What's for?

[quote name='Capitaine Haddock' timestamp='1426176676' post='11128765']
[quote name='DaveMac' timestamp='1426173543' post='11128417'] A lot of this years premium drivers have a real deal shaft as standard plus more options at no extra cost. The differences are varied including slightly different bend profiles, torque values and lower cost materials in construction (more resin less fibre). The made for Titleists you used as your example are missing Mitisibushi's premium 5ct quality standard. It is perfectly possible to get optimum performance from a made for shaft, plus with the wide range of no cost custom options it should be possible for most people to find a suitable combination without paying an up charge. [/quote]
I have always wondered what the 5ct means on my Diamana...

What's for?
[/quote]

Per the Mitsubishi website:

The Mitsubishi Rayon logo is comprised of three diamonds. Diamond weight is measured in carats and there are 5 carats in one gram. Therefore these making signify the approximate shaft weight in carats. (e.g. 63 x5ct means 63 x 5 carats = 315 carats = 63 grams).

[quote name='myreside' timestamp='1426178286' post='11128977']
[quote name='Capitaine Haddock' timestamp='1426176676' post='11128765']
[quote name='DaveMac' timestamp='1426173543' post='11128417'] A lot of this years premium drivers have a real deal shaft as standard plus more options at no extra cost. The differences are varied including slightly different bend profiles, torque values and lower cost materials in construction (more resin less fibre). The made for Titleists you used as your example are missing Mitisibushi's premium 5ct quality standard. It is perfectly possible to get optimum performance from a made for shaft, plus with the wide range of no cost custom options it should be possible for most people to find a suitable combination without paying an up charge. [/quote]
I have always wondered what the 5ct means on my Diamana...

What's for?
[/quote]

Per the Mitsubishi website:

The Mitsubishi Rayon logo is comprised of three diamonds. Diamond weight is measured in carats and there are 5 carats in one gram. Therefore these making signify the approximate shaft weight in carats. (e.g. 63 x5ct means 63 x 5 carats = 315 carats = 63 grams).
[/quote]

Sounds like some performance gains you couldn't do without!

The one thing a fitter told me about made for shafts vs. premium upgrades is a not only a slight difference in the overall shaft profile (as mentioned above) but the QC tolerance is different. So the stiffness, weight, torque, etc. all have a specific range they need to be within for the shaft actually hit the shelf. So on a shaft that says 65g it may actually weigh 64.5g or 65.5g (just example numbers here) and as long as it fits within their tolerance range the shaft is deemed OK. On the shafts which are 'real deal' or 'tour issue' the tolerance is smaller than the more mass consumed shafts (the 'made for' shafts). A example he used was with True Temper DG shafts. The non Tour Issue versions have a significantly wider tolerance range than the Tour Issue versions. You may get X100 shafts off the rack with a set or irons and the 7 iron shaft is playing closer to a S400/300 while the 8 iron is playing closer to a little more stiff than the X100. That is a extreme circumstance though. The variance on the Tour Issue shafts is much smaller so the shafts are all going to play virtually the same as the defined specs.

In the end, he said it was pretty much a negligible difference but a difference nonetheless. For 99.9% of the golfers the tolerance range is not even remotely a concern because they are for the most part always going to be close. The most important factor is that the shaft profile/specs meets your swing. Whether that's a $25 shaft or a $800 shaft.

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426180367' post='11129255']
Whether that's a $25 shaft or a $800 shaft.
[/quote]

We have a winner...buy this man a mood adjusting beverage!

[quote name='stuey01' timestamp='1426171783' post='11128197']
[quote name='Liquid_A_45' timestamp='1426171665' post='11128185']
[quote name='stuey01' timestamp='1426171094' post='11128105']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1426169571' post='11127941']
"Made for" shafts are for posers. Guys that go around the course with staff bags and iron covers. No self respecting GolfWRX'er would go there.
[/quote]

It would probably be more accurate to say that aftermarket shafts are for posers.
[/quote]

I think some sarcasm was missed here.
[/quote]
Fair cop guv.
[/quote]

Come again

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426180367' post='11129255']
The one thing a fitter told me about made for shafts vs. premium upgrades

[/quote]

Fitters are in business to sell expensive after market shafts.

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426180367' post='11129255']
The one thing a fitter told me about made for shafts vs. premium upgrades is a not only a slight difference in the overall shaft profile (as mentioned above) but the QC tolerance is different. So the stiffness, weight, torque, etc. all have a specific range they need to be within for the shaft actually hit the shelf. So on a shaft that says 65g it may actually weigh 64.5g or 65.5g (just example numbers here) and as long as it fits within their tolerance range the shaft is deemed OK. On the shafts which are 'real deal' or 'tour issue' the tolerance is smaller than the more mass consumed shafts (the 'made for' shafts). A example he used was with True Temper DG shafts. The non Tour Issue versions have a significantly wider tolerance range than the Tour Issue versions. You may get X100 shafts off the rack with a set or irons and the 7 iron shaft is playing closer to a S400/300 while the 8 iron is playing closer to a little more stiff than the X100. That is a extreme circumstance though. The variance on the Tour Issue shafts is much smaller so the shafts are all going to play virtually the same as the defined specs.
[/quote]

It is very common for people to mistake higher priced shafts as having higher tolerances and better QA. But actually, according to Tom Wishon, who extensively tests shafts specs for his bend profile and fitting software, that's not really true. He found absolutely no correlation between the cost of the shaft and the consistency of the samples he tested. There were cases of very expensive shafts being all over the place as well as cases of inexpensive shafts having very tight tolerances as well as the opposite.

As far a the TT shaft example, those tour issue labeled shafts are not really separate models. All were created the exact same way and even in the same run with the same specs. The difference has nothing to do with the manufacturing process but rather that the tour issues are hand picked to be a better match for weight (and for that matter, as I understand it, the matching is only by weight - not flex or bend profile).

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1426184279' post='11129749']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426180367' post='11129255']
The one thing a fitter told me about made for shafts vs. premium upgrades is a not only a slight difference in the overall shaft profile (as mentioned above) but the QC tolerance is different. So the stiffness, weight, torque, etc. all have a specific range they need to be within for the shaft actually hit the shelf. So on a shaft that says 65g it may actually weigh 64.5g or 65.5g (just example numbers here) and as long as it fits within their tolerance range the shaft is deemed OK. On the shafts which are 'real deal' or 'tour issue' the tolerance is smaller than the more mass consumed shafts (the 'made for' shafts). A example he used was with True Temper DG shafts. The non Tour Issue versions have a significantly wider tolerance range than the Tour Issue versions. You may get X100 shafts off the rack with a set or irons and the 7 iron shaft is playing closer to a S400/300 while the 8 iron is playing closer to a little more stiff than the X100. That is a extreme circumstance though. The variance on the Tour Issue shafts is much smaller so the shafts are all going to play virtually the same as the defined specs.
[/quote]

It is very common for people to mistake higher priced shafts as having higher tolerances and better QA. But actually, according to Tom Wishon, who extensively tests shafts specs for his bend profile and fitting software, that's not really true. He found absolutely no correlation between the cost of the shaft and the consistency of the samples he tested. There were cases of very expensive shafts being all over the place as well as cases of inexpensive shafts having very tight tolerances as well as the opposite.

As far a the TT shaft example, those tour issue labeled shafts are not really separate models. All were created the exact same way and even in the same run with the same specs. The difference has nothing to do with the manufacturing process but rather that the tour issues are hand picked to be a better match for weight (and for that matter, as I understand it, the matching is only by weight - not flex or bend profile).
[/quote]

Correct. DG Tour Issue just have better tolerance when it comes to weight. I doubt you will ever find a X100 off the rack that plays at a S300 - the first step is like 2 inches different in the two
[attachment=2659453:Untitled.png]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1426182576' post='11129523']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426180367' post='11129255']
The one thing a fitter told me about made for shafts vs. premium upgrades

[/quote]

Fitters are in business to sell expensive after market shafts.
[/quote]

And yet I ended up with made for shafts which fit my swing profile better...

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1426184279' post='11129749']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426180367' post='11129255']
The one thing a fitter told me about made for shafts vs. premium upgrades is a not only a slight difference in the overall shaft profile (as mentioned above) but the QC tolerance is different. So the stiffness, weight, torque, etc. all have a specific range they need to be within for the shaft actually hit the shelf. So on a shaft that says 65g it may actually weigh 64.5g or 65.5g (just example numbers here) and as long as it fits within their tolerance range the shaft is deemed OK. On the shafts which are 'real deal' or 'tour issue' the tolerance is smaller than the more mass consumed shafts (the 'made for' shafts). A example he used was with True Temper DG shafts. The non Tour Issue versions have a significantly wider tolerance range than the Tour Issue versions. You may get X100 shafts off the rack with a set or irons and the 7 iron shaft is playing closer to a S400/300 while the 8 iron is playing closer to a little more stiff than the X100. That is a extreme circumstance though. The variance on the Tour Issue shafts is much smaller so the shafts are all going to play virtually the same as the defined specs.
[/quote]

It is very common for people to mistake higher priced shafts as having higher tolerances and better QA. But actually, according to Tom Wishon, who extensively tests shafts specs for his bend profile and fitting software, that's not really true. He found absolutely no correlation between the cost of the shaft and the consistency of the samples he tested. There were cases of very expensive shafts being all over the place as well as cases of inexpensive shafts having very tight tolerances as well as the opposite.

As far a the TT shaft example, those tour issue labeled shafts are not really separate models. All were created the exact same way and even in the same run with the same specs. The difference has nothing to do with the manufacturing process but rather that the tour issues are hand picked to be a better match for weight (and for that matter, as I understand it, the matching is only by weight - not flex or bend profile).
[/quote]

Interesting. Its very possible I misunderstood what the fitter was telling me. The second paragraph is actually exactly what he told me. So it's very possible I misunderstood the overall message.

About 20-25 years ago average joe golfers started to pay attention to the booming after market shaft options that were coming into the market. After watching the PGA lads on TV play a blue bomber shaft they started thinking if they were to use a blue bomber shaft would their driving distances improve?

The OEMs started to market the "made for" blue bombers with their nuclear heads and lads started to think that it was a sweet deal. They were getting the nuclear head and a blub bomber shaft.!!! Only the "made for" printing started to get smaller and smaller and in some instances it completely disappeared. Still average joe was thinking he was getting a blue bomber when in reality he was getting a designed shaft to help the nuclear head preform better for 75% of the golfing public. The move by the OEMs was to help the average joe in his game without necessarily telling him they were helping him. Oh and by the way the "made for" shafts were generally a bargain for the OEMs. Many times the "made for" blue bomber shaft is better for the average joe but not letting him in on the "bait and switch" was a wee bit stinky, IMHO. He probably thought he was getting something that he wasn't. Many times the tip was softer and the overall flex was generously upgraded and the construction less expensive. Those expecting after market performance were soon disappointed. Taylormade and their TP shafts was one that didn't play the game and put real deal shafts in their TP line and you paid an upcharge for it. Some average joes started to figure this out and would order a nuclear driver with a Xstiff shaft when they would normally play a stiff in a real deal to compensate for some of the playing characteristics difference.

Today many more of us are more cognizant of the shaft world and won't accept the "bait and switch" anymore and are asking the question about whether this shaft is after market or not. Also OEMs have realized that we are now more informed about the shafts that come with the drivers and are more skeptical and asking more questions. The days of the bait and switch are coming to an end but you can still find some OEMs playing that game. As a result many more top line OEMs are now putting the "real deal" shafts in their drivers and are marketing it as such. So a little late on the disclosure, IMHO, but still better information for the consumer.

IMHO there is a definite performance difference that can be seen and felt with a real deal shaft and particularly for the low handicapper.