Where are you playing tomorrow - Chicago (Round2)

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  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Crazy a** weather. Snow on Sunday, and 77 degrees today. I was in the neighborhood, so I stopped at Harborside for a quick round. Ugh. $64 for wet conditions and cart path only. Greens were still healing from an aeration. Cart paths are trash. They're either filled with pot holes, or crushed stone in the areas where they're being replaced. Bunkers are starting to settle, and are playing nice.

    Good day off the tee, but oh lordy I couldn't hit an iron. First local round of the year without 3+ layers, and I was all arms. Big 'ol sweeping hooks. Fairway wood was even uglier with dead pulls.

  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Seven Bridges was off the path this evening which was a nice relief. Course is shaping up and looking good. This is an unpopular opinion, and it is coming from someone who prefers to walk. I don't think courses should allow both walking and riding. It should be one or the other. I get that it will never happen for monetary reasons for the most part, but just a thought.

  • @_the_crook@_the_crook Members Posts: 736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mci711 said:
    Seven Bridges was off the path this evening which was a nice relief. Course is shaping up and looking good. This is an unpopular opinion, and it is coming from someone who prefers to walk. I don't think courses should allow both walking and riding. It should be one or the other. I get that it will never happen for monetary reasons for the most part, but just a thought.

    especially love mornings at Shepherd's when the first several groups are all hoofers.
    seems perfect when you look across a couple fairways and hear club chatter with no cart noise.

    currently playing:
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  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I have the day off tomorrow, but it's looking like I'll be staring at my walls. Morning temps will be in the low 40's, but the winds will be 25 to 40 mph, and there's a 50% chance of rain. Ugh. Saturday looks a little better, but winds will still be 20 to 30 mph.

  • ldchristopherldchristopher Members Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @mci711 said:
    Seven Bridges was off the path this evening which was a nice relief. Course is shaping up and looking good. This is an unpopular opinion, and it is coming from someone who prefers to walk. I don't think courses should allow both walking and riding. It should be one or the other. I get that it will never happen for monetary reasons for the most part, but just a thought.

    Easy solution. Eliminate carts completely. The notion that carts speed up play is just straight up wrong. I get to name drop here. I was on the high school golf team with Mike Keiser’s son. Mike Sr. took more pride in the fact that his courses didn’t allow carts than maybe anything else. The amount of damage carts do to a golf course is incredible.

    Driver: Titleist 917 D2 10.5° w/ Aldila Rogue Max 65 stiff
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  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Apr 18, 2019 4:18pm #10567

    mci711 said:

    Seven Bridges was off the path this evening which was a nice relief. Course is shaping up and looking good. This is an unpopular opinion, and it is coming from someone who prefers to walk. I don't think courses should allow both walking and riding. It should be one or the other. I get that it will never happen for monetary reasons for the most part, but just a thought.

    Easy solution. Eliminate carts completely. The notion that carts speed up play is just straight up wrong. I get to name drop here. I was on the high school golf team with Mike Keiser’s son. Mike Sr. took more pride in the fact that his courses didn’t allow carts than maybe anything else. The amount of damage carts do to a golf course is incredible.

    Courses wouldn't survive without them. The industry would probably lose 50%+ of their golfers/rounds played, that is a complete guess, but I'd venture that it could be a lot more. Not to mention there are a lot of older people out there that can't walk, many courses aren't set up to walk etc.
    The real solution is to eliminate walking at busy times. I completely disagree with walking and carts being equal speed. If 2 players go out and hit 72 of the exact same shots the cart is going to finish a couple of holes ahead, especially at many of the newer courses that aren't set up with tees and greens next to each other.

    The other unrealistic thing to do it you want to speed up play at public courses is to have a handicap limit and certain rated courses. The real reason for slow play is bad golf. Good golfers may take their time but 72 deliberate and "slow" shots is always going to be faster than 100+ shots and looking for balls. The industry is going to do whatever they can to make money though. I guess the simple answer is I need to buck up and join a private course or stop complaining 😂

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,793 ClubWRX

    @mci711 said:
    mci711 said:

    Seven Bridges was off the path this evening which was a nice relief. Course is shaping up and looking good. This is an unpopular opinion, and it is coming from someone who prefers to walk. I don't think courses should allow both walking and riding. It should be one or the other. I get that it will never happen for monetary reasons for the most part, but just a thought.

    Easy solution. Eliminate carts completely. The notion that carts speed up play is just straight up wrong. I get to name drop here. I was on the high school golf team with Mike Keiser’s son. Mike Sr. took more pride in the fact that his courses didn’t allow carts than maybe anything else. The amount of damage carts do to a golf course is incredible.

    Courses wouldn't survive without them. The industry would probably lose 50%+ of their golfers/rounds played, that is a complete guess, but I'd venture that it could be a lot more. Not to mention there are a lot of older people out there that can't walk, many courses aren't set up to walk etc.
    The real solution is to eliminate walking at busy times. I completely disagree with walking and carts being equal speed. If 2 players go out and hit 72 of the exact same shots the cart is going to finish a couple of holes ahead, especially at many of the newer courses that aren't set up with tees and greens next to each other.

    The other unrealistic thing to do it you want to speed up play at public courses is to have a handicap limit and certain rated courses. The real reason for slow play is bad golf. Good golfers may take their time but 72 deliberate and "slow" shots is always going to be faster than 100+ shots and looking for balls. The industry is going to do whatever they can to make money though. I guess the simple answer is I need to buck up and join a private course or stop complaining 😂

    Agree with your walking vs cart speed on an open course. But eliminating walking during busy times doesn't make a difference if the walkers go to their own ball, play ready golf, etc.

  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @mci711 said:
    mci711 said:

    Seven Bridges was off the path this evening which was a nice relief. Course is shaping up and looking good. This is an unpopular opinion, and it is coming from someone who prefers to walk. I don't think courses should allow both walking and riding. It should be one or the other. I get that it will never happen for monetary reasons for the most part, but just a thought.

    Easy solution. Eliminate carts completely. The notion that carts speed up play is just straight up wrong. I get to name drop here. I was on the high school golf team with Mike Keiser’s son. Mike Sr. took more pride in the fact that his courses didn’t allow carts than maybe anything else. The amount of damage carts do to a golf course is incredible.

    Courses wouldn't survive without them. The industry would probably lose 50%+ of their golfers/rounds played, that is a complete guess, but I'd venture that it could be a lot more. Not to mention there are a lot of older people out there that can't walk, many courses aren't set up to walk etc.
    The real solution is to eliminate walking at busy times. I completely disagree with walking and carts being equal speed. If 2 players go out and hit 72 of the exact same shots the cart is going to finish a couple of holes ahead, especially at many of the newer courses that aren't set up with tees and greens next to each other.

    The other unrealistic thing to do it you want to speed up play at public courses is to have a handicap limit and certain rated courses. The real reason for slow play is bad golf. Good golfers may take their time but 72 deliberate and "slow" shots is always going to be faster than 100+ shots and looking for balls. The industry is going to do whatever they can to make money though. I guess the simple answer is I need to buck up and join a private course or stop complaining 😂

    Agree with your walking vs cart speed on an open course. But eliminating walking during busy times doesn't make a difference if the walkers go to their own ball, play ready golf, etc.

    That is true. Good point. Ready golf is key.

  • jimwgt26jimwgt26 Members Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I walk ~40% of my rounds, and I've never been passed by a group in carts. The thought that carts are faster than walking is a myth unless every player had their own cart.

  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Apr 18, 2019 6:54pm #10572

    @Argonne69 said:
    I walk ~40% of my rounds, and I've never been passed by a group in carts. The thought that carts are faster than walking is a myth unless every player had their own cart.

    1 to 1 there is no chance walking is quicker.

  • TheBear95TheBear95 Members Posts: 466 ✭✭✭✭

    @mci711 said:

    @Argonne69 said:
    I walk ~40% of my rounds, and I've never been passed by a group in carts. The thought that carts are faster than walking is a myth unless every player had their own cart.

    1 to 1 there is no chance walking is quicker.

    Only if the course is wide open. But, if the course is wide-open, pace of play isn't an issue anyway. So, it is irrelevant if one walks or rides.
    Argonne is 100% correct. The idea that carts speed-up play on a busy course, especially our pancake flat courses in Northern IL, is a complete myth.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @mci711 said:

    @Argonne69 said:
    I walk ~40% of my rounds, and I've never been passed by a group in carts. The thought that carts are faster than walking is a myth unless every player had their own cart.

    1 to 1 there is no chance walking is quicker.

    I played a round a few years back in Austin. I was riding solo, and my playing partner was walking. We were the first two out. We finished in under two hours, and I could barely keep up. A lot depends on the layout. If the cart paths aren't near the green, it's amazing how long it takes to walk from the cart to the green and back. On many of the holes he was on the next teebox hitting before I arrived, as he had a direct route from the green to the next tee.

  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @TheBear95 said:

    @mci711 said:

    @Argonne69 said:
    I walk ~40% of my rounds, and I've never been passed by a group in carts. The thought that carts are faster than walking is a myth unless every player had their own cart.

    1 to 1 there is no chance walking is quicker.

    Only if the course is wide open. But, if the course is wide-open, pace of play isn't an issue anyway. So, it is irrelevant if one walks or rides.
    Argonne is 100% correct. The idea that carts speed-up play on a busy course, especially our pancake flat courses in Northern IL, is a complete myth.

    It isn't though. What you are saying is walking is acceptable on a busy course because it is packed with slow/bad golfers. That doesn't make riding faster than walking a myth, there is really no correlation in that example. If you had 100 players of the same caliber and had them all play in carts or all walking the average round would be quicker with the carts. I get what you are saying, slow play happens for a multitude of reasons and walking isn't necessarily going to slow a packed course round down. On a sunday when you are playing a 5+ hour round walking or riding you are going to be waiting it doesn't matter.

    And I mentioned layout earlier. I completely agree. There are a lot of courses in the area that aren't set up for walking.

    We'd have 7 hour weekend rounds if a course like Big Run or Blackstone or a busy course like Mistwood was walking only.

  • VNutzVNutz Members Posts: 6,273 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    While I'd love to see carts eliminated, or maybe more of an emphasis on walking rather than riding, it'll never happen. Carts generate too much revenue, and too many people are conditioned to think they can only golf with a cart because they're too fat/lazy/out of shape to walk and carry. Even the two 9 hole courses I drive by daily are full of carts every evening I drive past them. The one playable day we had this January I went out to one of those courses to find 10 people waiting on the first tee for the next cart to come in, at 3 in the afternoon. They let me walk out ahead of them while they waited. I explained that even with a cart coming in there was less than 2 hours daylight left in the day and they'd never come close to finishing. They didn't care, wouldn't go anywhere without a cart.

  • TheBear95TheBear95 Members Posts: 466 ✭✭✭✭

    @VNutz said:
    While I'd love to see carts eliminated, or maybe more of an emphasis on walking rather than riding, it'll never happen. Carts generate too much revenue, and too many people are conditioned to think they can only golf with a cart because they're too fat/lazy/out of shape to walk and carry. Even the two 9 hole courses I drive by daily are full of carts every evening I drive past them. The one playable day we had this January I went out to one of those courses to find 10 people waiting on the first tee for the next cart to come in, at 3 in the afternoon. They let me walk out ahead of them while they waited. I explained that even with a cart coming in there was less than 2 hours daylight left in the day and they'd never come close to finishing. They didn't care, wouldn't go anywhere without a cart.

    Yeah, it is a cultural thing.
    It is one thing if you have a physical limitation or condition that prevents/hinders you from walking the course. If not, walking is how the game was meant to be played.
    I wish we had the walking golf culture of Great Britain.

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  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Apr 18, 2019 10:29pm #10578

    7 hours? Bah. There isn't a course in Chicago that isn't walkable. There are few residential/resort courses with 800 yds between the greens and the next tee boxes. Elevation changes are basically non-existent. If carts sped up golf every resort course in the country would be bragging about their 3 hour rounds. There isn't a course in Chicago that I can't walk in 2.5 hours as a single, or 4:15 with a foursome.

    Funny, I rarely see a walker at Harborside or Lost Marsh, but rounds are rarely less than 4:15, and often 4:30 or more. OTOH, the courses that I play on a regular basis that are 50% or more walkers (e.g. Wilmette, Glencoe, Sportsman's) have 4 hour rounds the majority of the time, and rarely over 4:20.

    I've played over 500 rounds in Chicagoland over the past decade. One thing I know for certain is that the likelihood of having a long round increases as the number of carts goes up.

    Post edited by Argonne69 on
  • WABWAB Highland Park, ILMembers Posts: 55 ✭✭

    I always walk and use my personal push cart that folds and stores nicely in the back of my car along with the clubs.
    When I travel (California, Arizona, Florida..) I usually ride only because most of the courses are set up for riding. Was just in La Quinta, CA area and played 6 different courses. Didn't see a single walker at any time.

    I do think it would behoove people to walk more (if able), but understand the course economics and cultural issues. Hopefully all courses will at least have the quieter electric carts in the future. If I were to ever join a club, a walking culture would be one of the priorities for me.

  • mci711mci711 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Argonne69 said:
    7 hours? Bah. There isn't a course in Chicago that isn't walkable. There are few residential/resort courses with 800 yds between the greens and the next tee boxes. Elevation changes are basically non-existent. If carts sped up golf every resort course in the country would be bragging about their 3 hour rounds. There isn't a course in Chicago that I can't walk in 2.5 hours as a single, or 4:15 with a foursome.

    Funny, I rarely see a walker at Harborside or Lost Marsh, but rounds are rarely less than 4:15, and often 4:30 or more. OTOH, the courses that I play on a regular basis that are 50% or more walkers (e.g. Wilmette, Glencoe, Sportsman's) have 4 hour rounds the majority of the time, and rarely over 4:20.

    I've played over 500 rounds in Chicagoland over the past decade. One thing I know for certain is that the likelihood of having a long round increases as the number of carts goes up.

    Now this may not be true in every case, but I would venture to say that people who walk the majority of the time may be better golfers. The weekend drinking golfers shooting 100+ aren't walking. Carts are definitely not slowing things down, at some point there is a max speed a 4 some is going to play cart or walking and that is determined by skill, etiquette, and other (weather, how drunk they are etc). I just believe that max speed is faster in cart than walking and if you narrow that down and get really granular than carts are faster than walking. I didn't mean to start a whole thread on this, and I am someone who prefers walking anyway.

  • Marlo989Marlo989 Members Posts: 12 ✭✭

    I believe the biggest cause of slow play is lack of awareness and selfishness. Seems that 80% of rounds I'm at every next tee ready to go 60 seconds before anyone else is ready to tee off. Parking cart / leaving bag on wrong side of green, stopping to score, futzing with bag, looking at phone. Followed by not playing ready golf and then taking 4 practice swings on a chip. It's why we are in a world where a stoplight turns green and every car is a 3 second delay to look up and go.

  • St JimmySt Jimmy Members Posts: 449 ✭✭✭✭

    Carts are faster if everyone has their own.
    The cart loses it's advantage because 99% of riders drive to each other's ball.

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  • @_the_crook@_the_crook Members Posts: 736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    granted, each of us has our own personal pace. we usually clock in at three and half whether at Sportsmans or Shepherds.
    last weekend my partner and I - usually out first, played the sixth or seventh tee time.
    we didn't change our game but the groups ahead - sluggish. some rode, some walked.
    took us thirty minutes longer for the round. can't understand why people get out at dawn and crawl.
    group ahead was two holes behind and were going to use all four allotted hours. two ahead of them, couple of wanderers.
    what's the phrase? the task expands to fill the time available....
    we'll be better off when the sun comes up earlier and we can get our 5:30 - 5:45 slot back.

    currently playing:
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  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I've said it for years, one should be required to take a test on the proper use of a cart before one is given the keys. Carts don't generally slow down play, but players who incorrectly use them slow down play. My personal experience has been that a single in a cart is no faster than a single walking. I've been a solo player first out of the gate with and without a cart more times than I can count, and I can get around in 2:00 to 2:20. A cart may speed up straight-line travel, but having to walk to/from the cart at tee boxes and around the greens negates that advantage.

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,793 ClubWRX

    @Argonne69 said:
    7 hours? Bah. There isn't a course in Chicago that isn't walkable. There are few residential/resort courses with 800 yds between the greens and the next tee boxes. Elevation changes are basically non-existent. If carts sped up golf every resort course in the country would be bragging about their 3 hour rounds. There isn't a course in Chicago that I can't walk in 2.5 hours as a single, or 4:15 with a foursome.

    Funny, I rarely see a walker at Harborside or Lost Marsh, but rounds are rarely less than 4:15, and often 4:30 or more. OTOH, the courses that I play on a regular basis that are 50% or more walkers (e.g. Wilmette, Glencoe, Sportsman's) have 4 hour rounds the majority of the time, and rarely over 4:20.

    I've played over 500 rounds in Chicagoland over the past decade. One thing I know for certain is that the likelihood of having a long round increases as the number of carts goes up.

    Not sure you can walk Oak Grove in 2.5 hours. We've played it as a 2 some in 3:30 but there are some healthy gaps between greens and tees.

  • WABWAB Highland Park, ILMembers Posts: 55 ✭✭

    @Argonne69 said:
    I've been a solo player first out of the gate with and without a cart more times than I can count, and I can get around in 2:00 to 2:20.

    I am not doubting your number, but curious as to how you get around so fast (6:36/hole for a 2 hour round). When I'm a single/walking, I get around in about 3-3:15.

  • bbucks44bbucks44 Members Posts: 4

    @Argonne69 said:
    Crazy a** weather. Snow on Sunday, and 77 degrees today. I was in the neighborhood, so I stopped at Harborside for a quick round. Ugh. $64 for wet conditions and cart path only. Greens were still healing from an aeration. Cart paths are trash. They're either filled with pot holes, or crushed stone in the areas where they're being replaced. Bunkers are starting to settle, and are playing nice.

    Good day off the tee, but oh lordy I couldn't hit an iron. First local round of the year without 3+ layers, and I was all arms. Big 'ol sweeping hooks. Fairway wood was even uglier with dead pulls.

    I was thinking of playing harborside this weekend to get ready for my Illinois qualifier there, how bad were the greens? Would you advise me against playing it this weekend? I assume they punched port & starboard?

  • bbucks44bbucks44 Members Posts: 4

    Better question; where can I play this weekend near Chicago where the greens haven't been punched?

  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bbucks44 said:

    @Argonne69 said:
    Crazy a** weather. Snow on Sunday, and 77 degrees today. I was in the neighborhood, so I stopped at Harborside for a quick round. Ugh. $64 for wet conditions and cart path only. Greens were still healing from an aeration. Cart paths are trash. They're either filled with pot holes, or crushed stone in the areas where they're being replaced. Bunkers are starting to settle, and are playing nice.

    Good day off the tee, but oh lordy I couldn't hit an iron. First local round of the year without 3+ layers, and I was all arms. Big 'ol sweeping hooks. Fairway wood was even uglier with dead pulls.

    I was thinking of playing harborside this weekend to get ready for my Illinois qualifier there, how bad were the greens? Would you advise me against playing it this weekend? I assume they punched port & starboard?

    The greens were bumpy, but playable. I played Starboard, so I have no idea if they punched Port as well.

  • Argonne69Argonne69 Members Posts: 21,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @WAB said:

    @Argonne69 said:
    I've been a solo player first out of the gate with and without a cart more times than I can count, and I can get around in 2:00 to 2:20.

    I am not doubting your number, but curious as to how you get around so fast (6:36/hole for a 2 hour round). When I'm a single/walking, I get around in about 3-3:15.

    On the flatter courses, e.g. Wilmette, Glencoe, I can get around in 2:00 to 2:15. Hit the ball and go. I don't take practice swings on full shots, and I've played the courses enough that I know almost all the breaks on the greens. For a longer course with more distance between the holes it generally adds another 20 minutes. It simply boils down to walking at a brisk pace, and not farting around. Stick a tee in the ground, put the ball on the tee, and hit it. With my Skycaddie I basically know what club I'm going to need before I get to my ball.

  • dhartmann34dhartmann34 Members Posts: 701 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bbucks44 said:
    Better question; where can I play this weekend near Chicago where the greens haven't been punched?

    Depends on how near. Stonewall doesn't aerate their greens so they're in great shape. But that's a bit out from Chicago itself.

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