How You Can Build a Single-length (or close to it) Set of Irons

[update 5/11/16]

Thinking of building your own custom-length set of irons? Check out the updated Clubmaker's Calculator for a detailed look at the geometric specs of your clubs—it's the easiest and most accurate way to optimize your irons!

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Since the end of last season, I began to suspect that I would fare better on the course if I cut down my longer irons to be roughly 6-iron length.

Not being a clubmaker and also being aware of the fact that shafts are generally sold as sets comprised of differing lengths and stepping patterns, I figured cutting down my longer clubs would probably be worthless journey, so I put the idea on the back burner.

However, with Bryson Dechambeau's victory at the NCAAs in 2015, the idea of non-stock lengths on longer irons (and perhaps the entire set) came back into focus. As you are probably aware, Bryson played a custom set of Edel irons and wedges (3-LW) cut to 37.5", and he also played beastly XL Jumbomax grips that weigh 120g apiece (more on this in a bit).

The trick with a single-length set of this nature is to match the swing weights for a consistent feel throughout. In Bryson's case, this was achieved through custom-built, matching-weight heads from Edel (for example, his 3-iron has a much deeper face than your typical blade or players cavity—the weight has got to go somewhere).

Obviously, custom heads like Bryson's probably aren't in the cards for most people, so if you're looking to create your own single-length set, you have a couple of options:

• purchase one of the few single-length sets from boutique manufacturers and live with their ugly-Word not allowed heads, or
  
• figure out another way to match swing weights (or, better, MOI...lots more on this throughout this thread)
  

I was mostly curious to see if a single-length (or rather, custom-length) set would benefit my game in some way, so instead of spending an ungodly amount of money on custom-made heads, I decided to go with the second option listed above.

Using Joe Kwok's information on swing weight factors, I set about building my own custom-length iron set using some Nike VR Pro blades that were languishing in one of my backup bags. The VR Pros have a 45-gram difference between the 3-iron and PW, so matching swing weights with a single shaft length is a bit tricky.

Although I began my project with the intent of making all my clubs 37" long, I quickly abandoned this idea due to the fact that adding any more than about 24 grams of weight to the back of an iron is ridiculous (and I would have had to add 40+ to my 3 and 4-irons). And thus, I learned single-length lesson #1...

Lesson 1: Of the factors you can control easily (and cheaply), shaft length is the primary determinant of swing weight.

With this in mind, I decided to make my 8-P 36" and my 3-7 37" long. This difference in shaft length reduced the weight needed for the 3 and 4-irons by over 20g. And that leads us to single-length lesson #2...

Lesson 2: If you want to build a custom-length set using OEM club heads, your best bet is to pick at least two (or more) shorter lengths to balance out swing weights throughout the set.

I realize that the stated goal of a single-length set is to promote the use of a single swing plane on every shot, but the fact is, there isn't that much difference between the swing of a 36" and 37" club.

[Edit: I now disagree with the above statement, at least in the sense that the first step in building custom-length clubs is to identify a sweet spot position—a combination of length and lie—that is the ideal focal point for any set you might build.]

Also, from my perspective, I really only struggle with the longer clubs anyway, so most of my benefits are going to come from two areas: shorter clubs that are easier to swing consistently, and standardized lies that allow me to address the ball in a comfortable, confidence-inspiring manner.

And now this brings us to the lie of each club, which is not only an important consideration for your swing type, but also a crucial piece of the single-length puzzle because nearly every club will need its lie altered in some way.

Lesson 3: Base your clubs' lie angles on the specs of the club you hit best.

[Edit: Lie angles are only half of the geometric equation. Length is the other half, so your "focal point" club should be based on both the length and lie of the club you hit best.]

I like my 7-iron at 37" and 62.5º, so I used those specs as a model for the 3-7 in my set. For the 8-P at 36", I chose a lie angle that is 1º more upright, so 63.5º for those.

A good rule of thumb here is to increase/decrease the lie angle 1º for every inch of club length difference, and that's what guided my decision here.

Of course, lie angle isn't the only club head variable affected by the move to a custom-length set; lofts should also be considered, as you want to achieve the most consistent distance gapping possible with your new clubs.

For most players, a loft gap of 4º between clubs will result in 8-12 yards of carry difference, assuming a constant shaft length.

[Quick aside here: If you're a stronger player, you may have noticed that standard-length sets of clubs often leave you with gaps in the 12-16 yard (or more) range; this is because the extra length promotes a higher swing speed in addition to the gap already provided by the difference in loft. Personally, my ever-growing yardage gaps were a big reason why I sought to build a custom-length set.]

Lesson 4: Establish loft gaps of 4º throughout your custom-length set, but be aware that a 1º change up or down in loft will also affect the bounce by 1º up or down as well.

For my first custom set, I only had to consider the lofts of the 3 and 4 irons, as the rest of the clubs were already gapped at 4º (and indeed, this is true of most sets).

Since my VR Pro 5-iron was 27º, I had the 4-iron bent 1º stronger to 23º (bringing the bounce down to 2º), and then I had my 3-iron bent down to 20º (bringing the bounce to 1º). This made the gap between my 3 and 4-iron only 3º, but I was unwilling to go with a 0º bounce on the 3-iron because I was afraid I'd get it snagged in the turf too frequently and would never want to hit it off the deck.

Of course, the easiest way to avoid this gap/bounce issue with the 3-iron is simply to avoid using a 3-iron altogether :D

After I established my lengths, lofts, and lies, I had to choose a shaft and grip combination. In my experience, it's sensible to consider both the shaft and the grip at the same time, simply because the two work together to dictate the way irons feel when you swing.

Lesson 5: Choose a shaft and grip combination that produces your desired feel.

My VR Pros have always felt a little light to me, so I wanted to select a shaft that emphasized the head weight a bit more. In addition, I knew I was going to install Jumbomax Large grips that weigh 113g apiece, and these big grips further de-emphasize the weight-at-the-end-of-a-string feel of the club head.

Based on these ideas, I selected the Dynamic Gold SL x100, which checks in at 108g per shaft. These shafts restored a bit of the weighty feeling of the club head, which is more important to me than the actual swing weight number.

Lesson 6: Swing weight is a relative value; depending on your club's setup, a C4 could feel the same as a D2. In other words, don't focus on the swing weight number, but instead focus on matching swing weights throughout your new set.

[Edit: MOI-matching is superior, as it matches effective weighting along a curve rather than linearly. In other words, it's more accurate than swing weight matching.]

With my lengths, lofts, lies, shafts, and grips selected, I went to my local clubmaker, ordered what I needed, and then had everything assembled.

Immediately after assembly, you'll have a set of sticks with increasing swing weights as you move from the 3-iron down to the PW.

In my case, I couldn't resist trying them out before attempting to match swing weights, and this experience was...interesting. Basically, the 3, 4, and 5-iron felt like there was no club head at the end of the shaft, and while I had some fun on the launch monitor, it was clear that I needed to match the swing weights throughout the set before I could declare this project complete.

My local Golfsmith has a swing weight scale on its shop counter that is available for customers to use, so I snatched up some high-density lead tape and put my new clubs on the scale.

My intent going in was to create a custom-length set where every club felt like a 7-iron, so I based all new swing weights off my new 7-iron, which came in at C4. To match the swing weights throughout the set, I had to add significant amounts of lead tape to my 8, 6, 5, 4, and 3-irons; the amount I added to the 3, 4, and 5 is the most lead tape I've ever seen on a golf club :D

Lesson 7: Add high-density lead tape to the back of the irons that require an increase in swing weight.

For reference, a 1" long strip of 1/2" wide, high-density lead tape weighs 1g. I like to use 2" strips to keep the tape from bulking up too much on the back of the club head.

Further, the ideal location for the lead tape is right at or just below the center of mass of the club head. Please note that the center of mass is located at a lower point than the vertical center of the club face, so the best position for the lead tape will be somewhat low on the back of the club.

In addition, this is a great opportunity to address any ball flight concerns you may have, as the lead tape can help correct some of your sidespin tendencies.

If you tend to overdraw or hook the ball, place the tape with a clear bias toward the toe; if you tend to overfade or slice the ball, place the tape with a bias toward the heel.

After adding lead tape, you should hop on a launch monitor to see what kind of flight characteristics you're getting. In my case, the two-length set with matching swing weights produced a much tighter dispersion from club to club, and the consistent feeling combined with hook-fighting grips gave me confidence and control I had never previously experienced on the course.

***************

What I've learned after 7 rounds with my custom-length irons...

First, custom-length irons are absolutely the truth. I seriously doubt I will ever use a standard-length set of clubs again.

In fact, after using my two-length set for 7 rounds, I'm kind of baffled that clubmaking EVER went in this direction of having increasing club lengths throughout a set.

For me, the question is not "Why have a single-length set," but rather, "Why NOT have club heads that all weigh the same along with identical shaft lengths?"

From an economic perspective, producing single-length shafts would be substantially cheaper (and easier) than producing the shaft sets with which we're already familiar. Also, designing club heads of equal weights that provide a consistent look and feel is actually easier than designing heads that offer similar characteristics in drastically different sizes (ie, a 3-iron is substantially smaller than a 9-iron).

Second, on clubs where you've added more than 6 grams of lead tape below the center of mass, you can expect an associated—and statistically significant—increase in backspin.

As I stated above, I added over 20g apiece to my 3 and 4-irons, and both of these clubs now routinely produce spin rates that are 800-1000rpm higher than I would prefer.

Obviously, I could remove some of the lead tape, but the drastic reduction in swing weight feels crappy to me (and also represents a major departure from the weighting of the rest of the set).

Now, with this said, I'm still pretty damn happy with the performance of the new 3 and 4-irons, but hey—I like to split hairs, and I can tell there is some optimization yet to be done on these longer clubs.

Third, I have already built a second set of custom-length clubs to address the concerns raised above.

This time, to reduce the need for ridiculous amounts of lead tape throughout the set, I used a combination of different (but still short) shaft lengths and shaft weights:

• 4: 37.5" DGx100, 130g, 61.5º lie
  
• 5: 37.5" DGx100, 130g, 61.5º lie
  
• 6: 37" DGx100, 130g, 62º lie
  
• 7: 37" DGx100, 130g, 62º lie
  
• 8: 36.5" DG xp115 (x100), 120g, 62.5º lie
  
• 9: 36.5" DG xp115 (x100), 120g, 62.5º lie
  
• P: 36" DGSL x100, 108g, 63º lie
  
• G: 36" DGSL x100, 108g, 63º lie
  

For those interested, I used Adams CMB heads for this set, and yes—I expect these to be the greatest clubs ever assembled :D

Regarding the four different shaft lengths, the longer (37.5") shafts were necessary to increase the swing weight of the longer irons in order to reduce the amount of lead tape.

I also chose to go with 0.5" gaps and four different lengths rather than a 1" gap and two different lengths, because [1] the yardage gap between the 36" 8-iron and 37" 7-iron in my Nike VR Pro set was making me uncomfortable on the course, and [2] the extra length is the easiest—and most effective—way to reduce the need for lead tape throughout the set.

Next, while it may seem counter-intuitive to use the heaviest shafts on the longer clubs, the DGx100s help to reduce spin on the clubs that require the most lead tape. In addition, the lighter shafts on the shorter clubs emphasize the head weight more, and I prefer that feeling on my scoring irons.

Finally, to match the swing weights even more (without lead tape), I put lighter (95g) grips on the 4-8 irons and heavier (105g) grips on the 9-G. For reference, 5g of grip weight reduces the swing weight by about 1 point, so I was able to save 2 swing weight points (or 4g of lead tape) by making this adjustment with my grips.

**********

Obviously, there are many details to consider if you want to build your own custom-length set of clubs, but based on my experience, the journey is completely worthwhile.

If you want to feel a comfort and consistency with your irons that is literally impossible with "standard-length" clubs, I urge you to consider building your own custom-length set.

I find myself nodding a lot. I did essentially this, but with a pro builder. 1/4 inch increments and progressive swing weighting... Some OEM is going to figure this out and it will change a lot.

The same swing weight on a 4 and 9 iron make no sense. Neither does adjusting your posture over 2 1/2 inches.

Wait so on the first set, how did you make the shorter irons lighter?

Gaucho, I didn't make them lighter. The shorter lengths on the 8-P offset the swing weight difference (1" of length = 6 swing weight points).

Matchavez, the swing weight issue is an interesting one. If you look at stock iron sets, most of them come with swing weights in the D0-D3 range. Stock drivers are generally around D5, and stock wedges are in the D3-D5 range.

This means your shortest and longest clubs have the highest swing weights, with your middle clubs (irons) having the lowest swing weights.

At first glance, it seems unlikely that this would be the most optimal setup, simply because some sort of progression (as you suggested) would seem to be in the offing here. Another alternative would be to try and match all swing weights for a consistent feel from driver to wedges, but this approach seems strange because of the difference in attack angles (and thus desired pendulum feel) between, say, woods and wedges.

Before adding weight to my forthcoming set of CMBs (which I will pick up on Wednesday), I'm going to experiment with some progressive swing weights in the irons to see what I can find.

Honestly, I've been pretty happy with the constant C4 weight of my VR Pros (remember, I'm using huge grips), and I was actually thinking it would be desirable to up the swing weights even more (say, C7). The problem here is that my 3 and 4-irons are absolutely maxed out on the lead tape, so there's really nowhere else for me to go if I want a matching set.

Thus, my experience mostly corroborates the way OEMs set up the swing weights. Based on this, here are my suggestions for tweaking the swing weights throughout your set:[list]
[*]Based on your current club specs, determine a swing weight you're comfortable with.
[*]With irons or wedges, if you want to promote a downward, more deliberate strike (for consistency), bump the swing weight up about 2 points.
[*]With woods, a higher swing weight will promote a more deliberate transition, which could help with consistency but also possibly cost you some speed.
[*]Try to keep your entire set within a 4-point range (I keep mine within 3). Taking this approach will prevent any clubs from feeling like outliers, and this will promote your confidence from club to club through the course of a round.
[/list]

I've been looking at the Pinhawk components:
[url="http://www.valuegolf.com/pinhawk-sl-single-length-iron-heads"]http://www.valuegolf.com/pinhawk-sl-single-length-iron-heads[/url] (heads only, $107)
[url="http://www.valuegolf.com/pinhawk-sl-single-length-irons"]http://www.valuegolf.com/pinhawk-sl-single-length-irons[/url] (Full clubs, $219)

I like the idea of the same-length hybrid also, with a fully built set coming in under $300. Right now I'm happy with my bag, so I haven't given serious thought to buying a set but the theory behind it makes complete sense to me.

My biggest concerns are distance on the long irons and control on the short irons. Have you had any issues in those areas?

Mych, as I mentioned in my original post, I don't care for single-length irons, but I [i]do [/i]prefer shorter lengths and shorter progression overall.

Thus, my short irons are still...short, and my distance with them has not changed. Regarding the longer irons, I have lost a small amount of carry distance with my 3-5 irons (but remember, my 3-to-4 iron gap is only 3º, which is 1º short of optimal for my custom-length set). Specifically, my 5-iron is 4-6 yards shorter, my 4-iron is 5-9 yards shorter, and my 3-iron is 8-12 yards shorter (though my distance gaps are 12 and 10 between 5 and 4, 4 and 3 respectively).

Contrary to one's intuition, most of the carry distance loss in the longer irons is NOT from the shorter shaft length. Instead, the distance loss comes from increased spin, which is due (in my case) to a combination of the super lite shafts and tons of added weight low and back on the club heads.

Interestingly, my swing speeds with the longer irons have only changed about 2-3 mph. Even though my 7-iron and 3-iron are the same length and weight, I still swing the 3-iron about 6-8 mph faster. I don't know if this is simply mental or is a product of the aerodynamic differences between the smaller 3-iron and larger, deeper-faced 7-iron, but even with a constant length, the "longer" irons still behave like...longer irons.

With my new set of CMBs, I've attempted to address the spin issue with my longer irons, and I've also employed 4 lengths (rather than 2) throughout the set in an attempt to nail down my distance gapping in a more precise manner.

After reading about the NCAAs, I bought a set of EQL irons with DG X100 shafts at 37" ... and I've never hit my irons better.

I've found I'm about a club shorter through the set, but that is mainly because of loft (the EQL 3 iron is 26º). I've also found I hit this irons lower than my G15s, but I think that is because of the shafts. (My Pings had ZZ65 shafts.)

I truly do have 1 swing for all my irons ... 3 iron or PW, it's the exact same swing.

I did keep my SW standard, because I like using it around the green and I didn't want the extra length there.

BTW - I'm at a 4 handicap currently and hit my 3 iron about 190, so I'm not GWRX long by any means.

Heh, ever since the NCAAs, full sets of EQLs have been nearly impossible to find on eBay. I'd love to hit 'em with the x100s.

I've done something similar with all of my iron sets, for the past 5 or 6 years ... albeit not quite as extreme.

3 and 4 irons are both 38.5 in length
5 iron is standard at 38 in length
6 and 7 iron are both 37.5 in length
8 and 9 iron are 37
PW is 36.5

I've built each of my iron sets in this fashion over the past several seasons and find them much easier to get used to and hit consistently.

My thought was to find the longest iron you can hit very well (for me its the 6), and cut the longer irons down to that length. Keep the length increments in the other irons, i.e PW-7, the same.

Pearsonified... Awesome stuff. Thanks for taking the time to share. I am extremely intrigued & have been very interested in giving something like this a go since watching & following Bryson Dechamp over the past few months.

Thats a nice read, thank you.

I've been diddling with this idea for a couple of years now, in part due to having diddled with MOI matching for slightly longer. I actually have a set of Pinhawks on the bench in the garage at the moment, and am waiting for one more shaft to come in before I take (3) of them to the range with some impact spray & lead tape.

I don't have much trouble with irons 4i & down, but I really truly believe that an MOI match & single (or even two length) setup is just an easier way to go for more consistency, and more joy. I'm not a fan of "playing golf swing" on the course.

For what it's worth, the Pinhawks are 5* loft increments. Also, you can get around lead tape (once you've found your ideal SW) with something as simple as small hosel weights that insert into the shaft tip. These can be worth upto 7 grams I believe.

Lastly, Most of Tom Wishon's line of clubheads have ALOT of weight port options as well. And he makes damned fine clubheads.

[quote name='pearsonified' timestamp='1435595773' post='11855454']
Heh, ever since the NCAAs, full sets of EQLs have been nearly impossible to find on eBay. I'd love to hit 'em with the x100s.
[/quote]

I was very lucky to get these ... Paid just $100 for the 3-SW. Hosels are discolored from being heated when the original shafts were pulled, but otherwise in good shape.

MoBryant, if you choose to build your own custom set, don't hesitate to PM me with any questions you may have.

nikuk, regarding the weight in the hosel, that was definitely an option for my second set, but there are a couple of issues to consider:[list]
[*]the weights tend to become dislodged over time and can rattle around in the shaft
[*]the extra weight in the hosel promotes draw/hook spin, which is something I specifically wanted to avoid with my custom set
[/list]
I think Wishon's irons with the various weight port options represent a really intriguing answer to club head weighting. I have been thinking about interchangeable tungsten backplates, but weight ports seem like a more useful (and cost-effective) version of this solution. Thanks for the info here!

i absolutely love this thread.

i've been thinking of doing something like this for a while and now i just might.

In a similar vein, another thing we seldom ask is why irons have to be sold in "sets". Why can we not treat irons like we do our driver, woods, hybrids and wedges, which often can be mismatched and made by different manufacturers, with different shafts, grips etc? The only criteria in selecting these other clubs is "what works the best"?

If we follow this chain of thought, and putting the question of convenience aside, what is there to stop us from finding random irons that work best for us, regardless of the shaft, brand etc, as long as we can achieve the desired distance for each club and hit it consistently well? I experimented with this for a while by simply bagging whatever iron works best:

Mizuno Mph4 5iron - nspro 1150 s shaft
Taylormade Mc 6 iron - nspro 1150s shaft
Cobra s2 forged 7 and 8 irons - nspro 1130 s shaft
Taylormade mc forged 9 iron - Dynamic gold SL s300 shaft
Taylormade mb forged pw - dynamic gold s300 shaft

But alas, this is just my backup set that i use infrequently. cos i ultimately succumbed to the vanity of have a beautifully matched set of irons =)

I love this thread! I am learning so much from you fellas, thank you for sharing. I am a digger who is working his way out of that trend. Lots of shags. took up the game last yr. after 20 yrs off. 40 now. Bought most of the players cb's from 2012-13. Adams cmb w big grips and +1 kbs tour had me hitting six irons 200-210. Quit them cause they so high, very obvious for you guys I know w shaft head combo like this, and they were totally messing with my swing and so unlike any of the other sets it scared me. Any how I gave them to a friend yesterday who has a very deliberate rocking type transition, upright ( he is 80 lbs overweight) swing with a powerful descending blow. The long cmbs in the 4 5 6 worked soooo well! He hasn't hit anything below 7 wood in years. It's like magic. Anyhow I apologize for the interruption. I am new but have been following your discussions for a year and thank you pearsonified for your share and your dogged determination to add something to the enjoyment of this game. Hogan would certainly be piqued I think. (Meant that as a compliment). I think you are on to something especially for those who can't stay down on a short iron through transition w the shorter irons. Any recomendations for this friend as far as maybe a different shaft in the short irons to keep his shots down? Good luck and can't wait to hear about cmb's of yours. Ps. How do I display my witb ? Can't figure out how to do all that personalizing of my profile

scottycollector, nothing is stopping you from only baggin' what works best

In all seriousness, though, the club head is really just an incidental piece of a golf swing physics puzzle. Matching swing weights (or per Tom Wishon and Tutelman, matching MOIs) is the key (I'll come back to this in a sec). [b]The club head you ultimately choose should be all about the feel, feedback, and confidence it provides.[/b]

Peteroverlien, although shafts can certainly affect ball flight, the primary determinant of high/low, slice/hook, etc is the swing itself. Based on what you stated, my guess is your friend is casting the club head down toward the ball at impact (common with overweight people), thus increasing the dynamic loft, which causes the ball to be hit higher and shorter than a well-struck shot.

I spent most of last year (my first back in the game after 11 off) casting the club head, so I know a caster when I see him

[b]Okay, now back to MOI-matching, which I spent some time on yesterday...[/b]

Research from Tutelman coupled with anecdotal evidence suggests that swing weights can be used to closely approximate MOI matching throughout a set (1.3 swing weight points per inch down/up as the shafts get longer/shorter).

This yields a couple of insights:[list]
[*]With a single-length set, swing weight matching *is* MOI matching (obvious when you think about it)
[*][b]With a variable-length set, MOI-matching means your longer irons will be lighter than your shorter irons[/b]
[/list]
Also, with MOI-matching, the grip weight is more or less negligible, so that eliminates a variable that has a significant effect on the swing weight scale.

[b]Based on my attempts to match the MOI of my irons, I have the following recommendations:[/b][list]
[*]If you are using a variable-length set (as opposed to a single-length set), choose the heaviest head from one of the mid-range shaft lengths of your set as the basis for your MOI-matching.
[*]For example, my new Adams CMBs have four shaft lengths: 36 (PW, G), 36.5 (8i, 9i), 37 (6i, 7i), and 37.5 (4i, 5i). My best-fit MOI matches came from the 7i and 9i. The tightest fit actually came from the 9i, but it also required more lead tape to be added throughout the set than the 7i. Because of this, I will likely use the 7i as the basis for my MOI-matching (but I may still use the 9i due to the reduced margin of error).
[*]Depending on your shaft length progression, you will probably end up with one or more clubs that are 1-2 swing weight points too heavy in terms of their MOI relative to the rest of your set (also note: these irons will [i]always[/i] be heavier and have more loft than the club you chose as the basis for your MOI-matching). This is somewhat of a bummer, but it's also a problem that has an easy solution: [b]If you have a club whose swing weight is too high after MOI-matching (and grinding off club mass is not a reasonable option), you can simply choke down on that club by 1/4"-1/2" to make up the difference.[/b]
[/list]

This is really interesting. I was planning on getting fitted for a MOI matched set later this summer, but when I saw the posts on the kid from SMU, I started wondering about single length clubs. After digging some, it seemed very difficult to accomplish as I wanted to use some existing ap2 heads that I already have. This post suggests that it is possible.

I am, however, having questions about whether there is a discernable advantage to single length vs. MOI matched with shorter incriments. Tutelman in his discussions on MOI matching stated that he had success only when keeping ball position consistent amongst clubs. One of the perceived advantages to single length is the same swing and set up for all irons. But if you have 1/4 or 3/8 inch increments, is it noticeable? To me, if you have the same ball position, then does say a 1/4 inch in extra length really create an issue? To me, the biggest issue seems to be that people's clubs are too long, and that their ideal swingweight or overall clubweight is rarely accounted for in traditional sets. If you just start off with shorter clubs, and adjust everything to match your ideal club, then is there really much of a difference between these two concepts? Also, is there any benefit to having several "groups" of a single lenght vs. just having really small gaps between them. Is there a benefit to having two 37.5, two 37, two 36.5, two 36 inch clubs vs. having 37.5, 37.25, 37, 36.75, 36.5, 36.25, 36...?

Thanks again to the OP for starting this thread and for experimenting with something that a lot of us seemed to be wondering about.

[quote name='pearsonified' timestamp='1435675976' post='11862044']
scottycollector, nothing is stopping you from only baggin' what works best

In all seriousness, though, the club head is really just an incidental piece of a golf swing physics puzzle. Matching swing weights (or per Tom Wishon and Tutelman, matching MOIs) is the key (I'll come back to this in a sec). [b]The club head you ultimately choose should be all about the feel, feedback, and confidence it provides.[/b]

Peteroverlien, although shafts can certainly affect ball flight, the primary determinant of high/low, slice/hook, etc is the swing itself. Based on what you stated, my guess is your friend is casting the club head down toward the ball at impact (common with overweight people), thus increasing the dynamic loft, which causes the ball to be hit higher and shorter than a well-struck shot.

I spent most of last year (my first back in the game after 11 off) casting the club head, so I know a caster when I see him

[b]Okay, now back to MOI-matching, which I spent some time on yesterday...[/b]

Research from Tutelman coupled with anecdotal evidence suggests that swing weights can be used to closely approximate MOI matching throughout a set (1.3 swing weight points per inch down/up as the shafts get longer/shorter).

This yields a couple of insights:[list]
[*]With a single-length set, swing weight matching *is* MOI matching (obvious when you think about it)
[*][b]With a variable-length set, MOI-matching will require slightly less weight to be added to longer irons than swing weight matching[/b]
[/list]
Also, with MOI-matching, the grip weight is more or less negligible, so that eliminates a variable that has a significant effect on the swing weight scale.

[b]Based on my attempts to match the MOI of my irons, I have the following recommendations:[/b][list]
[*]If you are using a variable-length set (as opposed to a single-length set), choose the heaviest head from one of the mid-range shaft lengths of your set as the basis for your MOI-matching.
[*]For example, my new Adams CMBs have four shaft lengths: 36 (PW, G), 36.5 (8i, 9i), 37 (6i, 7i), and 37.5 (4i, 5i). My best-fit MOI matches came from the 7i and 9i. The tightest fit actually came from the 9i, but it also required more lead tape to be added throughout the set than the 7i. Because of this, I will likely use the 7i as the basis for my MOI-matching (but I may still use the 9i due to the reduced margin of error).
[*]Depending on your shaft length progression, you will probably end up with one or more clubs that are 1-2 swing weight points too heavy in terms of their MOI relative to the rest of your set (also note: these irons will [i]always[/i] be heavier and have more loft than the club you chose as the basis for your MOI-matching). This is somewhat of a bummer, but it's also a problem that has an easy solution: [b]If you have a club whose swing weight is too high after MOI-matching (and grinding off club mass is not a reasonable option), you can simply choke down on that club by 1/4"-1/2" to make up the difference.[/b]
[/list]
[/quote]
I built my set as MoI matched. There is approximately a 3/8" progression between clubs, leading to about 2.5 SW every two clubs.

And yes, MoI is sensitive to 1/4" so varying your grip position changes the perceived MoI significantly.

svenson, above all else, I think shorter clubs provide the real advantage here—it's the old 24/38 adage. Any irons less than 24º of loft or longer than 38" are simply too demanding for most people to hit consistently.

I started my custom-length quest in an attempt to gain consistency and also nail down my distance gaps, which were too large with standard length clubs at 1/2" progression.

[b]Using my swing weight-matched 36-37" set, I have absolutely gained consistency and confidence on the course.[/b] It's also easier to make adjustments from one swing to the next, simply because the club variables are largely the same.

I am anticipating similar results with my forthcoming MOI-matched set of Adams CMBs, which will be ready this week.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I decided to go with 1/2" gaps every 2 clubs, so PW and G are 36", 8i and 9i are 36.5", etc. I may choose to go with a smaller progression in the future, but for this set, my initial goal was to balance out the swing weight more evenly using factors other than lead tape on the club head (though I will still be using [i]some[/i] tape). Because shaft length is the primary determinant of swing weight, I went with 1/2" progressions.

Also, I went in with the notion that 1/4" or 3/8" increments wouldn't be all that noticeable; I'm not sure how true that is since I haven't swung a set with those progressions.

As you mentioned, you could theoretically just have really small gaps between all your clubs (let's say 1/4" for sanity's sake), but quite frankly, I'm not sure which shafts would be best for the job here.

For example, would you just use all 7-iron shafts? Given how close all the shafts would be in length, you probably would want to use a mixture of 6, 7, and 8-iron shafts throughout the set, but there would be slight differences in the weighting and flexion because each shaft would have a different amount of material removed from the butt end. [b]Granted, the difference is probably negligible, but I avoided this problem by ensuring that each of my shafts were trimmed by the exact same amount.[/b]

Finally, I would NOT recommend using the same ball position for different lengths of clubs. Longer shafts call for a ball position that is more forward in your stance, but obviously, the difference in position between a 36" and 37.5" club is a heck of a lot smaller than the difference between a 36" and a 39" club.

Honestly, ball position is one of those intuitive things that becomes natural as you get more comfortable swinging the club. I play my shorter clubs a little further back to ensure a nice, downward strike, and I move the longer clubs up just a bit to ensure more of a sweep. Since my clubs are far shorter than the OEM variety, the total difference in my ball position is much smaller and thus more manageable.

Pinhawk's are "ugly-a$$"?

They are about as minimalist design as you can get. We aren't Loudmouth Golf here.

ValueGolf, I was specifically thinking of 1iron's offerings when I made that statement, and while I prefer the looks of the Pinhawks to the 1irons, I still think both are a far cry from something like the Adams MB2s.

When you're in "ho country" like we are, you can expect a significant percentage of people to be uncompromising when it comes to aesthetics

[quote name='pearsonified' timestamp='1435756997' post='11868258']
ValueGolf, I was specifically thinking of 1iron's offerings when I made that statement, and while I prefer the looks of the Pinhawks to the 1irons, I still think both are a far cry from something like the Adams MB2s.

When you're in "ho country" like we are, you can expect a significant percentage of people to be uncompromising when it comes to aesthetics
[/quote]

Well, we can't all be that sexy (MB2's)

Now the first version of the Pinhawk cavity, that I can admit was rough. We did use a pro graphics guy on the new version though.

I enjoyed your post.

Ok folks, I'm off to MOI-match my new CMBs. I still don't know what I'm going to do with the grips, as I have 4 Jumbomax mediums and 7 Jumbomax smalls available for use (neither of which will outfit my full set).

I'm tempted to put the mediums on the longer clubs for hook-prevention purposes, as that will leave me a few smalls to put on wedges.

Also, I took some pictures of my custom VR Pro set yesterday, and I'll add those to this thread later today.

My custom-length Adams CMBs are complete; I decided to put small Jumbomax grips on 6-G for control, and medium grips on the 4 and 5 to safeguard against hooks (I really tend to go after the longer irons). Looks like I may have some issues getting lead tape to stay on a couple of the heads, but I'll figure it out eventually.

As promised, here are some pics of my Nike VR Pros, which I also MOI-matched this morning. Since there are only two club lengths in play here—36" and 37"—MOI-matching was as easy as ensuring the 36" clubs registered a swing weight 1.3 points higher than the 37" clubs. Now, on to the pics!

Side-by-side reference to show iron lengths:

Check out the extreme amount of lead tape on the longer irons:

The 3-iron has 24-26 grams of tape on it. Looks ridiculous, but it works like a champ!

The mid-irons are sweet. The 8-iron now has more tape on it after today's MOI-matching (it's the first 36" club in the set):

Would you play the guy who shows up with this bag for money? :D

Finally, in case you're curious, the driver is a BioCell Pro with a Matrix 7M3x and a medium Jumbomax grip. The 5-wood is a TEE XCG6 18º with a Matrix Black Tie 8M3x and small Jumbomax grip. Both play to "standard" lengths for each club.

The putter is a 34" Odyssey PT 82 with a black Winn Jumbo Pistol grip. This sucker is badly in need of some lead tape.

What do you do about the lie angle? All this sounds strange to me. Having wedges longer than standard would seem to cause a loss of touch. Having long irons shorter than standard would seem to cause a loss of distance.

cristphoto, I had the lie angles adjusted to match the length of the clubs. With the VR Pros, I went with 61.5º on the 37" clubs and 62.5º on the 36" clubs. This is easy to do if you are using forged heads (which are the only kind of heads I would recommend for an experiment like this).

Also, I did not modify my wedges, which play between 35.25" and 35.75".

I appreciate your comment, because you bring up a binary situation that many people who look into the idea of single-length clubs often fall into: [b]Single-length or a normal 1/2" progression are not your only options; indeed, you can construct your set however you like![/b]

Want normal wedges but shorter long irons? Done. Want two-lengths between your 3i and PW? Easy. Want to leave your wedges alone? Also easy.

People seem to think custom-length sets are a bigtime departure from normal, but nothing could be further from the truth. All custom-length sets seek to do is reduce the complications and variables in the golf swing. This promotes better distance gapping and more consistent contact—two things that will improve pretty much anyone's game.

Finally, as I explained in the introductory post here, I did lose some distance in the long irons, but that is mostly due to spin (lighter shaft + more head weight) and also to a more compressed long iron gap (something I intentionally sought). Now, instead of carrying my 3i 15-18 yards farther than my 4i, I only carry it about 10 yards farther. Based on what I set out to achieve, that's a win.

[quote name='scottycollector' timestamp='1435651978' post='11860724']
i absolutely love this thread.

i've been thinking of doing something like this for a while and now i just might.

In a similar vein, another thing we seldom ask is why irons have to be sold in "sets". Why can we not treat irons like we do our driver, woods, hybrids and wedges, which often can be mismatched and made by different manufacturers, with different shafts, grips etc? The only criteria in selecting these other clubs is "what works the best"?

If we follow this chain of thought, and putting the question of convenience aside, what is there to stop us from finding random irons that work best for us, regardless of the shaft, brand etc, as long as we can achieve the desired distance for each club and hit it consistently well? I experimented with this for a while by simply bagging whatever iron works best:

Mizuno Mph4 5iron - nspro 1150 s shaft
Taylormade Mc 6 iron - nspro 1150s shaft
Cobra s2 forged 7 and 8 irons - nspro 1130 s shaft
Taylormade mc forged 9 iron - Dynamic gold SL s300 shaft
Taylormade mb forged pw - dynamic gold s300 shaft

But alas, this is just my backup set that i use infrequently. cos i ultimately succumbed to the vanity of have a beautifully matched set of irons =)
[/quote]Actually back in the day I remember some of the guys on the Tour did the same thing. They used foil tape to cover up the name (not lead tape) and went about their business. Bobby Jones used a mismatched set of clubs in his day and they are in a museum somewhere and he did use lead tape on some. A few years ago someone swingweight tested them and found they all matched they also frequencied out the shafts and found out he had them matched perfect as far as flex. Amazing he did this by feel there were no machines in his day.

My custom-length Adams CMBs are complete; I decided to put small Jumbomax grips on 6-G for control, and medium grips on the 4 and 5 to safeguard against hooks (I really tend to go after the longer irons). Looks like I may have some issues getting lead tape to stay on a couple of the heads, but I'll figure it out eventually.

 

As promised, here are some pics of my Nike VR Pros, which I also MOI-matched this morning. Since there are only two club lengths in play here—36" and 37"—MOI-matching was as easy as ensuring the 36" clubs registered a swing weight 1.3 points higher than the 37" clubs. Now, on to the pics!

 

Side-by-side reference to show iron lengths:

 

Check out the extreme amount of lead tape on the longer irons:

 

The 3-iron has 24-26 grams of tape on it. Looks ridiculous, but it works like a champ!

 

The mid-irons are sweet. The 8-iron now has more tape on it after today's MOI-matching (it's the first 36" club in the set):

 

Would you play the guy who shows up with this bag for money? :D

 

Finally, in case you're curious, the driver is a BioCell Pro with a Matrix 7M3x and a medium Jumbomax grip. The 5-wood is a TEE XCG6 18º with a Matrix Black Tie 8M3x and small Jumbomax grip. Both play to "standard" lengths for each club.

 

The putter is a 34" Odyssey PT 82 with a black Winn Jumbo Pistol grip. This sucker is badly in need of some lead tape.

Quick question about shafts,in the VR pros are you using 7 iron shafts in the 3-7 and 8 iron shafts in the 8-p?What shaft are you using in the CMB setup?