side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

brentflogbrentflog Members Posts: 69 ✭✭
I am making the switch to side saddle putting. I have had too many rounds of 71 or 72 with 34 putts. I was curious what kind of putters are my fellow side saddlers using? right now i am trying bobby grace heavyweight champ cut down to 42 inches. it has a pretty big head though so I have a wack-e L on the way to try.
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  • PreppySlapCutPreppySlapCut This is just babytown frolics... Members Posts: 6,371 ✭✭
    I'm toying with it, Odyssey WHP long center shafted cut to 43". I like Bobby Grace's F-35, and I'd like to try Gianinni's "Butchie", but I've been using the WHP as an entry point.
    Ping G400 MAX 9* w/ Tour 65 (S)
    Ping G 14.5* & 19.5* w/ Tour 80 (X)
    Ping G30 22* w/ Accra Kuchar Proto 85 (X)
    Ping i210 5-PW w/ Aldila RIP 115 (S)
    Ping Glide 2.0 50*, 55*, 60* w/ Aldila RIP 115 (S)
    Scotty Cameron Toolbox
  • kenstlkenstl Members Posts: 422 ✭✭
    Currently using a 42" two ball style putter. It lines up well as you would expect, may be a little short for me and you can't really get the shaft fully verticals due to the width of the head. I have a PR Dione GP putter on the way to me in 47" and I look forward to trying it
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Wishon 929 4 wood
    SL Sterling Irons 5-LW
    Evnroll Arm Lock Putter
  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
    kenstl wrote:


    Currently using a 42" two ball style putter. It lines up well as you would expect, may be a little short for me and you can't really get the shaft fully verticals due to the width of the head. I have a PR Dione GP putter on the way to me in 47" and I look forward to trying it




    So, how has the GP Putter worked for you?
  • kenstlkenstl Members Posts: 422 ✭✭
    fast forward a year and looking back I kicked the face forward putting the first part of this year. I have gone back to traditional putting and have settled in on a couple of Seemore FGP putters. On the face forward putting, I went through about 4 different putters over about a years time. The GP putter is well made but it has a very small head. It is easy to get the shaft verticle with the narrow head which depending on how you have been putting face on, may be of benefit.



    Overall I putted pretty good with it, especially within 20', but my lag putting on long putts was never very consistent. I went to face on putting to help out with shorter putts as short misses were costing me a lot of strokes. face on putting definatly helped with the shorter putts, but overall due to poor lag putting, i did not get the overall improvement that I was wanting. (and I practiced a LOT with the 4 different putters).



    Although a part of me really likes the aspects of face on putting, I just felt I lost my touch and feel of putting with the face on style.
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Wishon 929 4 wood
    SL Sterling Irons 5-LW
    Evnroll Arm Lock Putter
  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
    Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, it's not very encouraging as I am just starting to tinker with the face on style. Thus far, distance control is the most difficult aspect. I am still fiddling around with technique as well.
  • kenstlkenstl Members Posts: 422 ✭✭


    Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, it's not very encouraging as I am just starting to tinker with the face on style. Thus far, distance control is the most difficult aspect. I am still fiddling around with technique as well.




    Keep working at it, it may be a fit for you. i think from the standpoint of getting a ball on the right line from 10' and in, face on is tough to beat once you get a process down in your set up. When I first went to it, I purchased the L2 putter which has a huge head on it. I actually found his technique to be very good from long distance, but the putter was just too large and heavy for shorter putts and that is when I moved on to the two ball putter and then the PR Dionne. I ended up pretty good on shorter putts with the PR Dionne, but I never was able to get real confident on longer putts (one of the strong points of my traditional stance putting). LOL, at one point I thought about carrying two types of putters!
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Wishon 929 4 wood
    SL Sterling Irons 5-LW
    Evnroll Arm Lock Putter
  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
    Ha, two putters... that has crossed my mind too as I go through this transition. Did you ever try the JuanPutt Putter. I know that the music on the video is hilarious but, something about his technique is intriguing.
  • kenstlkenstl Members Posts: 422 ✭✭
    No, I have never tried the Juan putter. I figured trying 4 putters for that style was enough!
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Wishon 929 4 wood
    SL Sterling Irons 5-LW
    Evnroll Arm Lock Putter
  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
    I have been fiddling around with a Scotty Cameron Big Sur with an adjustable shaft that I felt was too long at 46" (which is the shortest setting). Well, I just received the JuanPutt Putter this morning at 40" for a trial and have been considering the Bobby Grace "Let's Face It" version as well.
  • brentflogbrentflog Members Posts: 69 ✭✭
    Here is a new post from Randy Haag on side saddle putting. There are 4 youtube videos as well. https://randyhaag.com/2016/10/12/faceon-putting-101/



  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
    Thank you for the videos. Keep all the information coming. I am trying to soak it all in and practice as much as possible.
  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,355 ✭✭
    Been using the JuanPutt for most of the last 16 months since I converted to Face On. I've tried two different Bobby Grace versions, the GP putter, and even an STX, which is the one that Randy Haag uses, I believe. None of them match to the JuanPutt for weighting and ease of alignment; I think it's just a great piece of equipment.



    BTW, if you are considering ordering one, remember that Mr. Elizondo includes a putting trac that is fitted to his putter. I think it is a KEY piece of the puzzle in learning to trust the Face On stroke. I'm not trying to shill for him, but I DO think he's figured some stuff out about all of this.
  • wannabeparwannabepar I am the captain of my soul and the master of my fate..... Posts: 146
    It's neat that this subject just popped back up as I heard over the weekend, and just verified that Bryson Dechambeau is considering this very putting style. I didn't see it mentioned here, and may have missed it, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone hadn't heard it.
  • I have the L2 lateral line putter. And it is a solid putter. It is however extremely heavy. If you enjoy heavy putters and want to try side saddle then give this a go. I just looked at the juanputt putter and am very interested in this putter. Anyone with first hand experience using this putter please chime in.
    Taylormade SLDR 430
    Taylormade P790 UDI 2 iron
    Pinhawk SL 4 hybrid
    1 iron golf pro line 5-pw
    Six Bowtie SS red faced 44in
    Pinnacle Gold Ball
    Ping Hoofer Carry Bag
  • wannabepar wrote:
    It's neat that this subject just popped back up as I heard over the weekend, and just verified that Bryson Dechambeau is considering this very putting style. I didn't see it mentioned here, and may have missed it, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone hadn't heard it.




    It is my understanding that Dechambeau did indeed putt sidesaddle but was tired of all the attention and questions that he was getting about putting this way. So he switched to conventional putting and now uses an edel brick putter. I don't remember where I read this it was probably here lol.
    Taylormade SLDR 430
    Taylormade P790 UDI 2 iron
    Pinhawk SL 4 hybrid
    1 iron golf pro line 5-pw
    Six Bowtie SS red faced 44in
    Pinnacle Gold Ball
    Ping Hoofer Carry Bag
  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
  • brentflogbrentflog Members Posts: 69 ✭✭
    wannabepar wrote:


    It's neat that this subject just popped back up as I heard over the weekend, and just verified that Bryson Dechambeau is considering this very putting style. I didn't see it mentioned here, and may have missed it, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone hadn't heard it.




    According to Haag and another source (Gary Van Sickle) he has said he will switch back to side saddle after he secures his tour card, which he did this year. If he does I think this will have a greater effect of changing the game than his single length irons. I think most of us who have posted on this thread agree it is a better way to putt. Of course under current leadership, the usga and r&a will probably try to ban it. I have no idea how they could but never underestimate the usga.
  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,355 ✭✭


    I have the L2 lateral line putter. And it is a solid putter. It is however extremely heavy. If you enjoy heavy putters and want to try side saddle then give this a go. I just looked at the juanputt putter and am very interested in this putter. Anyone with first hand experience using this putter please chime in.




    See my post above. I've been using the JuanPutt for nearly a year and a half, but have used (and still own!) several other Face On models. None are as good as the JuanPutt.



    I'd add this; the guy who designed the JuanPutt, Juan Elizondo from Omaha, is a PGA professional who teaches out on Tour. He provides not only an instructional DVD with his putter but also a putting trac made specifically for his putter that I found invaluable and still use from time to time.
  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,355 ✭✭

    wannabepar wrote:
    It's neat that this subject just popped back up as I heard over the weekend, and just verified that Bryson Dechambeau is considering this very putting style. I didn't see it mentioned here, and may have missed it, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone hadn't heard it.




    It is my understanding that Dechambeau did indeed putt sidesaddle but was tired of all the attention and questions that he was getting about putting this way. So he switched to conventional putting and now uses an edel brick putter. I don't remember where I read this it was probably here lol.




    You are correct about Dechambeau doing this earlier and saying that he was going back to it. The most recent report made it sound like he was just going to try it out, which is incorrect.



    I will say that the one thing that has most caught me by surprise with the switch to Face On is the reaction of other golfers; they just freak out, and the worse they are, the more freaked out they become! I have people I've never met walk up to me on the practice green and start questioning the legality, etc, of what I am doing. I'm at a point in my life where I don't much care what anybody thinks of me, much less of the way I putt a golf ball, but it does get a bit tiresome.



    My theory on this is that the attention is about two things. One is of course the unusualness of what I'm doing. But I've come to believe that for many golfers, seeing me putt this way is sort of threatening; if I putt better than they do using a completely different method, then it means that they are "doing it wrong" and ought to switch, too. And that's a problem for a lot of people.



    BTW, the two groups that do NOT seem freaked out? Low handicap senior players, and tournament players of any age. The lower the age, the higher the handicap, and the more casual the golfer, the more they react like I've just thrown a live cobra out on the green.
  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,355 ✭✭
    brentflog wrote:

    wannabepar wrote:


    It's neat that this subject just popped back up as I heard over the weekend, and just verified that Bryson Dechambeau is considering this very putting style. I didn't see it mentioned here, and may have missed it, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone hadn't heard it.




    According to Haag and another source (Gary Van Sickle) he has said he will switch back to side saddle after he secures his tour card, which he did this year. If he does I think this will have a greater effect of changing the game than his single length irons. I think most of us who have posted on this thread agree it is a better way to putt. Of course under current leadership, the usga and r&a will probably try to ban it. I have no idea how they could but never underestimate the usga.




    I don't know how they could write the rule banning Face On, unless they were willing to take on any or all of three things. They could try limiting the allowable length of the putter, though Snead putted with a conventional length Bullseye, and I'd be willing to putt Face On with a putter down to about 38" or so (my JuanPutt is 44"). They could also try something with requiring the hands to be together, though that gets into some really thin ice because of ten-finger baseball grips used for full swings. And third, they could try something about alignment that would be really, really hard to write clearly.



    I think the difficulties we are seeing with the guys still using the long putter but saying that they are NOT anchoring will give the USGA pause about heading down that sort of road again anytime soon. Any rule that effectively bans facing the hole (think of it as a VERY open stance!) is going to be VERY tough to write and even tougher to administer.
  • brentflogbrentflog Members Posts: 69 ✭✭
    bluedot wrote:

    wannabepar wrote:
    It's neat that this subject just popped back up as I heard over the weekend, and just verified that Bryson Dechambeau is considering this very putting style. I didn't see it mentioned here, and may have missed it, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone hadn't heard it.




    It is my understanding that Dechambeau did indeed putt sidesaddle but was tired of all the attention and questions that he was getting about putting this way. So he switched to conventional putting and now uses an edel brick putter. I don't remember where I read this it was probably here lol.




    You are correct about Dechambeau doing this earlier and saying that he was going back to it. The most recent report made it sound like he was just going to try it out, which is incorrect.



    I will say that the one thing that has most caught me by surprise with the switch to Face On is the reaction of other golfers; they just freak out, and the worse they are, the more freaked out they become! I have people I've never met walk up to me on the practice green and start questioning the legality, etc, of what I am doing. I'm at a point in my life where I don't much care what anybody thinks of me, much less of the way I putt a golf ball, but it does get a bit tiresome.



    My theory on this is that the attention is about two things. One is of course the unusualness of what I'm doing. But I've come to believe that for many golfers, seeing me putt this way is sort of threatening; if I putt better than they do using a completely different method, then it means that they are "doing it wrong" and ought to switch, too. And that's a problem for a lot of people.



    BTW, the two groups that do NOT seem freaked out? Low handicap senior players, and tournament players of any age. The lower the age, the higher the handicap, and the more casual the golfer, the more they react like I've just thrown a live cobra out on the green.




    I've had the same reaction. If Dechambeau is successful this will change.
  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
    Well, originally, Sam Snead putted croquet style. I have heard rumors that Bobby Jones had some influence in getting that style banned. That is when Snead settled on side saddle. Croquet style is legal so long as you are OFF the putting surface.
  • I will be ordering the JuanPutt putter sometime this week. I emailed the customer service department and got a response within 2 hours from Juan himself along with his cell phone number if I have any other questions. This just shows me how he stands behind his product and how excellent the customer service is. I will update everyone once I order and receive this putter.
    Taylormade SLDR 430
    Taylormade P790 UDI 2 iron
    Pinhawk SL 4 hybrid
    1 iron golf pro line 5-pw
    Six Bowtie SS red faced 44in
    Pinnacle Gold Ball
    Ping Hoofer Carry Bag
  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,355 ✭✭


    I will be ordering the JuanPutt putter sometime this week. I emailed the customer service department and got a response within 2 hours from Juan himself along with his cell phone number if I have any other questions. This just shows me how he stands behind his product and how excellent the customer service is. I will update everyone once I order and receive this putter.




    He is terrific; I had two LONG phone conversations with him after I started down this road. Just a super nice guy in every respect.



    I would urge you to watch his instructional video carefully, and use his putting trac religiously at the beginning. After hitting a few hundred 3 and 4 footers with the putting trac, you'll find that you have a completely different confidence level over those putts on the green. The feeling that if you get lined up right the ball WILL start on that line is just absolutely invaluable.



    And that's really the biggest difference in Face On vs. conventional putting; the certainty that the ball is going to at least start on the line that you've picked without any need to manipulate or micro-manage the putter head. Then you are free to simply focus on the speed, which at least for me simplified putting incredibly.
  • MoaningMMoaningM Members Posts: 1,346
    Dechambeau most definately used to use this method, a firend of mine played with at the Jones cup a few years ago and he was using this side saddle style.
  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
    The question is......... was he any good using the side saddle method?
  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,355 ✭✭


    The question is......... was he any good using the side saddle method?




    Apparently HE thinks he was, right?



    FWIW, I putted for nearly half a century conventionally. I was at least decent at it, and worked really hard; used lots of different grips, tried lots of different putters, took lessons, read books, did drills, the whole nine yards. I've been putting Face On/sidesaddle for 16 months, and I think I can say without reservation or hesitation that this is a better way to putt. I truly believe that the ONLY reason that golfers stand parallel to the line of play when they putt is because that's the way it's always been done. There is literally NO biomechanical advantage to conventional putting, and LOTS of disadvantages.



    My two analogies are Pete Gogolak and **** Fosbury. Until those two guys, people were pretty sure they knew how you should kick a football and how you should high jump; now, a straight-on placekicker or a high jumper that did the western roll or the scissors would look absurd. There WILL be that sort of paradigm shift with putting someday, but it'll take a young like Dechambeau to get people to take it seriously.



    But it's a better way to putt; it just is.
  • PreppySlapCutPreppySlapCut This is just babytown frolics... Members Posts: 6,371 ✭✭


    The question is......... was he any good using the side saddle method?


    He won the Trans-Miss putting sidesaddle...
    Ping G400 MAX 9* w/ Tour 65 (S)
    Ping G 14.5* & 19.5* w/ Tour 80 (X)
    Ping G30 22* w/ Accra Kuchar Proto 85 (X)
    Ping i210 5-PW w/ Aldila RIP 115 (S)
    Ping Glide 2.0 50*, 55*, 60* w/ Aldila RIP 115 (S)
    Scotty Cameron Toolbox
  • glensmithisglensmithis GlenSmith Posts: 481
    Oh, I am not doubting that it is a better way to putt. I have been tinkering with it for almost a week now. I have been working on it everyday. It does take some getting used to as I am still trying to find the correct putter length, foot position and grip/stroke. But, I am a believer...
  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,355 ✭✭


    Oh, I am not doubting that it is a better way to putt. I have been tinkering with it for almost a week now. I have been working on it everyday. It does take some getting used to as I am still trying to find the correct putter length, foot position and grip/stroke. But, I am a believer...




    If you decide to "convert", I'll give you some unsolicited advice:



    1. Watch the videos online from Randy Haag, Juan Elizondo, and David Cook (on the "Links of Utopia" website) There is a learning curve with face on, just like with anything else, and the instructional stuff from those guys is really, really good. Haag, for instance, puts great emphasis on the top hand staying still, which I believe MUCH more now than I did 16 months ago at the outset. Elizondo's advice of hitting a zillion putts from a putting trac on a carpet in your house and/or on a straight flat putt on a putting green is just critical; the whole thing is to learn to trust that the putter is simply going back and thru and that you are starting the putt on line. Once the habit of manipulating the putter head to square it back up is overcome, things really accelerate.



    2. View it as a process and don't be afraid to tweak what you are doing. I changed my bottom hand grip after several months, and changed the length of the putter after over a year, both to great benefit. That's one piece of advice from Cook that is invaluable; enjoy the process.



    3. Understand that you will NOT suddenly start making lots of 30 footers; that's just not the way putting works. The difference is twofold; you will find putts from 5' and in to be FAR easier, and you will find it FAR easier to avoid three putts. Your good days putting won't necessarily be much better than before, but your average day will be somewhat better and your BAD days will be FAR better. (If, by chance, you have the yips now, all bets are off; you will putt better from Day One!)



    4. Go whole hog and make the change; don't go back and forth. Give face on a set period of time, and putt ONLY that way and then assess. Going back and forth will make you worse at both, IMO.



    5. Cultivate an attitude of only caring about results and not in the least what other golfers think when they see you putting face on. Cook talks about this in his video briefly, but it's something to be ready for. I had an advantage in this, I think; I'm 64 and have spent my life in competitive athletics as a player and coach, plus I play a lot of competitive golf. And because of some things that have happened to my family, I'm long past giving a **** about what anybody thinks about what I'm doing in general, much less putting a golf ball. But I also realize that not everybody is in my situation, so not everybody is going to be comfortable with the reaction of others to putting face on. (This, btw, is where somebody like Dechambeau putting this way on TV would be helpful, I think.) And the flip side of this is that you'll get people who by the middle are really interested in talking about what you are doing because they see you putting better than they are!



    Anyway, good luck with putting, whatever you decide to do.
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