side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

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  • Joe DufferJoe Duffer Members Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kenstl said:
    I just got my BG F-22 delivered today, great looking putter! Also, BG was great to deal with. I had changed my mind on the length of my putter and he took a number of my phone calls during the process and he was always available by phone and email.

    Can't wait to get a few rounds in with the putter. Prior to getting it delivered, I played a round this past weekend with another face on putter that I had and shot a great score with 32 putts (11 GIR, 2 birdies). I hadn't putted face on for over a year and although it was not a great putting round, it was certainly no worse than almost all of my rounds with std putting.

    I went out practiced for a couple of hours tonight to get the hang of the F-22. Tried a lot of variations on techniques. I was able to hit 50 putts in a row from 3' (sounds easy but good practice of face control and the mental process due to the # of putts) and lag putting was very good. Putting it in play will be obviously the real test, looking forward to playing a few rounds with the new stick.

    Cool! - Best of luck with the new stick!

    Curious, does the Bobby Grace F-22 sole design lend itself to a vertical shaft?

    "Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do" - John Wooden
  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Joe Duffer said:

    @kenstl said:
    I just got my BG F-22 delivered today, great looking putter! Also, BG was great to deal with. I had changed my mind on the length of my putter and he took a number of my phone calls during the process and he was always available by phone and email.

    Can't wait to get a few rounds in with the putter. Prior to getting it delivered, I played a round this past weekend with another face on putter that I had and shot a great score with 32 putts (11 GIR, 2 birdies). I hadn't putted face on for over a year and although it was not a great putting round, it was certainly no worse than almost all of my rounds with std putting.

    I went out practiced for a couple of hours tonight to get the hang of the F-22. Tried a lot of variations on techniques. I was able to hit 50 putts in a row from 3' (sounds easy but good practice of face control and the mental process due to the # of putts) and lag putting was very good. Putting it in play will be obviously the real test, looking forward to playing a few rounds with the new stick.

    Cool! - Best of luck with the new stick!

    Curious, does the Bobby Grace F-22 sole design lend itself to a vertical shaft?

    I'm assuming that you mean holding the shaft in a vertical position, rather than at the 10* angle at which it is inserted into the head?

    And if so, MY answer after a year or so of using the F22 is "Not really." Or at least not any more that any other conforming head design. I think the F22, like most putters has enough of a bevel on each edge to allow it to be used in an address position that has the heel (or toe, for that matter) SLIGHTLY off the ground, just as you see guys like Stricker putt conventionally with their putter not completely soled. But if you held the F22 completely vertically, the heel will be well off the ground and you would lose effective "sweet spot" and make it much tougher to putt effectively, especially from distance.

    I had this conversation with Juan Elizondo four plus years ago after I started using the JuanPutt, which was my second face on putter. The first had been the GP, which IS designed to be used vertically. I spoke with Juan on the phone and asked the same question, and he said he would try it an call me back the next day, which he did. The answer I gave above is what he told me, and I've found it to be true. The only other face on putter that I've tried that could be held vertically, or very close to it, is the STX model that Randy Haag uses, and I just never could get used to how soft the insert and feel of that putter was. But beyond that, none of the others that I've tried (Directed Force, a couple of other Bobby Grace models, etc) worked well at all in a true vertical position.

  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 1:05pm #904

    @bluedot said:

    @Joe Duffer said:

    @kenstl said:
    I just got my BG F-22 delivered today, great looking putter! Also, BG was great to deal with. I had changed my mind on the length of my putter and he took a number of my phone calls during the process and he was always available by phone and email.

    Can't wait to get a few rounds in with the putter. Prior to getting it delivered, I played a round this past weekend with another face on putter that I had and shot a great score with 32 putts (11 GIR, 2 birdies). I hadn't putted face on for over a year and although it was not a great putting round, it was certainly no worse than almost all of my rounds with std putting.

    I went out practiced for a couple of hours tonight to get the hang of the F-22. Tried a lot of variations on techniques. I was able to hit 50 putts in a row from 3' (sounds easy but good practice of face control and the mental process due to the # of putts) and lag putting was very good. Putting it in play will be obviously the real test, looking forward to playing a few rounds with the new stick.

    Cool! - Best of luck with the new stick!

    Curious, does the Bobby Grace F-22 sole design lend itself to a vertical shaft?

    I'm assuming that you mean holding the shaft in a vertical position, rather than at the 10* angle at which it is inserted into the head?

    And if so, MY answer after a year or so of using the F22 is "Not really." Or at least not any more that any other conforming head design. I think the F22, like most putters has enough of a bevel on each edge to allow it to be used in an address position that has the heel (or toe, for that matter) SLIGHTLY off the ground, just as you see guys like Stricker putt conventionally with their putter not completely soled. But if you held the F22 completely vertically, the heel will be well off the ground and you would lose effective "sweet spot" and make it much tougher to putt effectively, especially from distance.

    I had this conversation with Juan Elizondo four plus years ago after I started using the JuanPutt, which was my second face on putter. The first had been the GP, which IS designed to be used vertically. I spoke with Juan on the phone and asked the same question, and he said he would try it an call me back the next day, which he did. The answer I gave above is what he told me, and I've found it to be true. The only other face on putter that I've tried that could be held vertically, or very close to it, is the STX model that Randy Haag uses, and I just never could get used to how soft the insert and feel of that putter was. But beyond that, none of the others that I've tried (Directed Force, a couple of other Bobby Grace models, etc) worked well at all in a true vertical position.

    I've found the same to be true. And I had that exact same conversation with Juan Elizondo...lol....
    What's worked for me is I hold the putter fairly vertical on the really short putts, and more out in front, so I can see the line better and easier to have a sbst stroke (I'd say 5 feet and closer).
    However, on the longer putts, I sole the putter for more stability and also bring the ball closer to my feet. This combination gives me better contact for lagging.

  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭

    @kenstl said:
    I just got my BG F-22 delivered today, great looking putter! Also, BG was great to deal with. I had changed my mind on the length of my putter and he took a number of my phone calls during the process and he was always available by phone and email.

    Can't wait to get a few rounds in with the putter. Prior to getting it delivered, I played a round this past weekend with another face on putter that I had and shot a great score with 32 putts (11 GIR, 2 birdies). I hadn't putted face on for over a year and although it was not a great putting round, it was certainly no worse than almost all of my rounds with std putting.

    I went out practiced for a couple of hours tonight to get the hang of the F-22. Tried a lot of variations on techniques. I was able to hit 50 putts in a row from 3' (sounds easy but good practice of face control and the mental process due to the # of putts) and lag putting was very good. Putting it in play will be obviously the real test, looking forward to playing a few rounds with the new stick.

    You'll love it. Best sidesaddle putter I've ever had (and I've tried them all!!)
    So much so, that's it's the first putter ever that I've used for 3 consecutive years (and counting).
    I love it so much I bought another as a "backup" in case they ever went out of production!

  • Joe DufferJoe Duffer Members Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 2:45pm #906

    Big, do you, or have you ever used your Bobby Grace F-22 on a SBST vertical plane?

    Post edited by Joe Duffer on
    "Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do" - John Wooden
  • J-TizzleJ-Tizzle Hello Members Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BigEx44 said:

    @kenstl said:
    I just got my BG F-22 delivered today, great looking putter! Also, BG was great to deal with. I had changed my mind on the length of my putter and he took a number of my phone calls during the process and he was always available by phone and email.

    Can't wait to get a few rounds in with the putter. Prior to getting it delivered, I played a round this past weekend with another face on putter that I had and shot a great score with 32 putts (11 GIR, 2 birdies). I hadn't putted face on for over a year and although it was not a great putting round, it was certainly no worse than almost all of my rounds with std putting.

    I went out practiced for a couple of hours tonight to get the hang of the F-22. Tried a lot of variations on techniques. I was able to hit 50 putts in a row from 3' (sounds easy but good practice of face control and the mental process due to the # of putts) and lag putting was very good. Putting it in play will be obviously the real test, looking forward to playing a few rounds with the new stick.

    You'll love it. Best sidesaddle putter I've ever had (and I've tried them all!!)
    So much so, that's it's the first putter ever that I've used for 3 consecutive years (and counting).
    I love it so much I bought another as a "backup" in case they ever went out of production!

    My plan as well. I can't ever seem to get them when my eBay alert goes off, might just have to reach out to BG himself and get one for a back up.

    G410 10.5* - F8+ 15* - F6 18* - G410 23* - i500 5-U - Hi Toe 54* & 60* - BG F22
  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 6:56pm #908

    @Joe Duffer said:
    Big, do you, or have you ever used your Bobby Grace F-22 on a SBST vertical plane?

    @Joe Duffer said:
    Big, do you, or have you ever used your Bobby Grace F-22 on a SBST vertical plane?

    Joe,
    See my post #904 above.
    I use it vertical for short putts (more accurate) but then I sole it for longer lag putts where stability is more important.

  • ncp10ncp10 Members Posts: 74 ✭✭

    @BigEx44 said:
    I use it vertical for short putts (more accurate) but then I sole it for longer lag putts where stability is more important.

    What do you mean by 'stability' in this context if you will?

  • garytgaryt Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi, I just started back into SS putting. I gave it a whirl a few years ago but never gave it a serious try. I'm using a Ping B90 putter head at 41". Anybody know the loft of this head? I see from reading this thread you want 1* or less.
    And just for kicks, has anyone ever tried the SS chipper that PR Dionne sells?

  • ncp10ncp10 Members Posts: 74 ✭✭

    Curious how people do practice strokes when putting SS/FO. I want to put the putter head behind the ball to line it up so it's not possible to do a practice stroke then.

  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 10, 2019 8:21pm #912

    @ncp10 said:

    @BigEx44 said:
    I use it vertical for short putts (more accurate) but then I sole it for longer lag putts where stability is more important.

    What do you mean by 'stability' in this context if you will?

    When the putter is held vertical it's not as in balance IMHO - easier for the face to twist closed or open (or be twisted closed or open when striking the ball off center). But on the short putts for me that's not a big deal since the putting stroke is small. I believe it can become an issue on longer putts if the sweet spot of the putter is missed thus impacting the lag.

  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 10, 2019 8:20pm #913

    accidental double post....

  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭

    @ncp10 said:
    Curious how people do practice strokes when putting SS/FO. I want to put the putter head behind the ball to line it up so it's not possible to do a practice stroke then.

    I do my practice strokes behind the ball getting a feel for how hard I want to hit the putt.
    Then I walk up to my ball, get into my setup, and putt away!

  • ncp10ncp10 Members Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited Aug 10, 2019 9:13pm #915

    Sounds good I will do it! I had been doing that for long putts that I do side-on but for some reason I had not been doing this with shorter putts. Very slowly I'm increasing the distance I will do FO/SS from which is now limited to about 15-16 or less'. I seem to do better SO from there out at the moment and have yet to yips-test it on the course.

  • ncp10ncp10 Members Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited Aug 10, 2019 9:18pm #916

    Another duplicate post this forum is really behind the times for how it works never saw anything like it.

  • RohlioRohlio Members Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @BigEx44 said:

    @ncp10 said:
    Curious how people do practice strokes when putting SS/FO. I want to put the putter head behind the ball to line it up so it's not possible to do a practice stroke then.

    I do my practice strokes behind the ball getting a feel for how hard I want to hit the putt.
    Then I walk up to my ball, get into my setup, and putt away!

    Exactly what I do.

    WITB:
    Driver: Ping G400 LST 8.5* Kuro Kage Silver TINI 70s
    FW: Ping G25 4 wood Kuro Kage Silver TINI 80s
    Utility: 20* King Forged Utility One Length C Taper Lite S
    Irons: King Forged One Length 4-PW C Taper Lite S
    Wedges: Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin 50, 54, 58
    Putter: Custom Directed Force Reno 2.0 48" 80* Lie Side Saddle
  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭

    @Rohlio said:

    @BigEx44 said:

    @ncp10 said:
    Curious how people do practice strokes when putting SS/FO. I want to put the putter head behind the ball to line it up so it's not possible to do a practice stroke then.

    I do my practice strokes behind the ball getting a feel for how hard I want to hit the putt.
    Then I walk up to my ball, get into my setup, and putt away!

    Exactly what I do.

    Great minds think alike! :wink:

  • bluedotbluedot Members Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Rohlio said:

    @BigEx44 said:

    @ncp10 said:
    Curious how people do practice strokes when putting SS/FO. I want to put the putter head behind the ball to line it up so it's not possible to do a practice stroke then.

    I do my practice strokes behind the ball getting a feel for how hard I want to hit the putt.
    Then I walk up to my ball, get into my setup, and putt away!

    Exactly what I do.

    You both probably know this, but what you are doing is what Stockton wants his conventional putting students to do for practice strokes AT MOST. He really doesn't want them to take a practice stroke at all, but urges them to compromise if they insist on a practice stroke and do it from behind the ball while facing and looking at the hole.

  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 11, 2019 4:10pm #920

    @bluedot said:

    @Rohlio said:

    @BigEx44 said:

    @ncp10 said:
    Curious how people do practice strokes when putting SS/FO. I want to put the putter head behind the ball to line it up so it's not possible to do a practice stroke then.

    I do my practice strokes behind the ball getting a feel for how hard I want to hit the putt.
    Then I walk up to my ball, get into my setup, and putt away!

    Exactly what I do.

    You both probably know this, but what you are doing is what Stockton wants his conventional putting students to do for practice strokes AT MOST. He really doesn't want them to take a practice stroke at all, but urges them to compromise if they insist on a practice stroke and do it from behind the ball while facing and looking at the hole.

    Yes. I'm just getting a mental feel for the length of the stoke. I almost subconsciously do a three little bears. That stroke is too hard. That stroke is too soft. Ahhh...that stroke is just right. Now hurry up and go putt with that stroke before you forget!

  • RohlioRohlio Members Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bluedot said:

    @Rohlio said:

    @BigEx44 said:

    @ncp10 said:
    Curious how people do practice strokes when putting SS/FO. I want to put the putter head behind the ball to line it up so it's not possible to do a practice stroke then.

    I do my practice strokes behind the ball getting a feel for how hard I want to hit the putt.
    Then I walk up to my ball, get into my setup, and putt away!

    Exactly what I do.

    You both probably know this, but what you are doing is what Stockton wants his conventional putting students to do for practice strokes AT MOST. He really doesn't want them to take a practice stroke at all, but urges them to compromise if they insist on a practice stroke and do it from behind the ball while facing and looking at the hole.

    Yep...I don't even really take a practice stroke per say...I just let the putter swing while I trace the line from the hole back to my ball with my L eye (I am crazy left eye dominant). AS soon as the line arrives back at my ball I walk up align the putter face on my start line take my stance and let it go as quickly as I can.

    WITB:
    Driver: Ping G400 LST 8.5* Kuro Kage Silver TINI 70s
    FW: Ping G25 4 wood Kuro Kage Silver TINI 80s
    Utility: 20* King Forged Utility One Length C Taper Lite S
    Irons: King Forged One Length 4-PW C Taper Lite S
    Wedges: Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin 50, 54, 58
    Putter: Custom Directed Force Reno 2.0 48" 80* Lie Side Saddle
  • jamgamjamgam ClubWRX Posts: 105 ✭✭✭

    I bought one off Ebay. Hefty side saddle or something like that. I like it a lot. Made my own putting track at home and practiced at home then 1 session at putting green. 1 round on the books and really happy with the putting. 30 putts and make a lot more inder 10'. And biggest of all no 3 putts. I used it from off the green 2 or 3 times also

  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭

    @jamgam said:
    I bought one off Ebay. Hefty side saddle or something like that. I like it a lot. Made my own putting track at home and practiced at home then 1 session at putting green. 1 round on the books and really happy with the putting. 30 putts and make a lot more inder 10'. And biggest of all no 3 putts. I used it from off the green 2 or 3 times also

    Cool! Great job.

  • Joe DufferJoe Duffer Members Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jamgam said:
    I bought one off Ebay. Hefty side saddle or something like that. I like it a lot. Made my own putting track at home and practiced at home then 1 session at putting green. 1 round on the books and really happy with the putting. 30 putts and make a lot more inder 10'. And biggest of all no 3 putts. I used it from off the green 2 or 3 times also

    Well done and welcome to the club! 👍😃

    "Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do" - John Wooden
  • ncp10ncp10 Members Posts: 74 ✭✭

    @jamgam said:
    I bought one off Ebay. Hefty side saddle or something like that. I like it a lot. Made my own putting track at home and practiced at home then 1 session at putting green. 1 round on the books and really happy with the putting. 30 putts and make a lot more inder 10'. And biggest of all no 3 putts. I used it from off the green 2 or 3 times also

    Is this the first time you've tried SS/FO? If so, amazing you have talent that is missing from my arsenal! I've practiced on the putting green for about 18 hours now and initially things looked pretty good but no real progress for the last 1/3 of those hours. I get to play tomorrow so we'll see how it goes on the course for the first time.

  • jamgamjamgam ClubWRX Posts: 105 ✭✭✭

    @ncp10 said:

    Is this the first time you've tried SS/FO? If so, amazing you have talent that is missing from my arsenal! I've practiced on the putting green for about 18 hours now and initially things looked pretty good but no real progress for the last 1/3 of those hours. I get to play tomorrow so we'll see how it goes on the course for the first time.

    First time. I made my own putting track that looks like JuanPutts to practice with at home. Just getting the stroke right. Spent about an hour the first day and then about 10-15 minutes here or there. I've putted 3 times with it now. yesterday I had 29 putts and 3 putted twice. I'm making so many more 5-10 footers is the big part

  • ncp10ncp10 Members Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited Aug 20, 2019 2:51pm #927

    @jamgam said:
    First time. I made my own putting track that looks like JuanPutts to practice with at home. Just getting the stroke right. Spent about an hour the first day and then about 10-15 minutes here or there. I've putted 3 times with it now. yesterday I had 29 putts and 3 putted twice. I'm making so many more 5-10 footers is the big part

    That's amazing. After putting in 18h of focused practice on a practice green I had a chance to play for the first time a few days ago. Towards the end of that 18h I was making on average 55+% of 8 foot putts. I did lag putts side-on with this 47" putter. We played at the amazing Fossil Trace in Golden CO--it's a course that is something between miniature golf on a grand scale and just an amazing golf course I've never seen anything like it. Greens were fast and severely sloped. The front nine putting FO/SS was awful! I went back to left handed w/ my lefty putter on the back nine and really did no better. We played Indian Peaks the next day and greens were reasonable there so I decided to bring out the 47" FO/SS putter. I had a terrible time w/ any kind of shorter breaking putts--poor distance control mostly. I had FOUR birdie putts under 8 feet on the front nine and missed them all. In fact one was 4.5 feet. The back nine was a bit better but I still had 3 three-putts. We played again on Sunday and I putted about the same as the prior round's back nine. Better, but still pretty poor total performance. The main positive result was that for both lagging side-on and putting face-on I had no yips whatsoever. So I'll stick with it and figure it will be awhile before we get to any level of proficiency. That is so cool you've had great success so quickly I'm envious as my long game has been quite decent. Again, I have some hope because I'm not yipping w/ this approach so it's hopeful if a struggle.

  • prouse25prouse25 ILMembers Posts: 348 ✭✭✭✭

    I tried this grip today with my F22. It felt rather good. Distance control was very good on long putts. Seeing the line / aim was a little difficult.

    I think I putt best with the F22 when I use it like a short broomstick putter (sideways to the hole). Long putts (>50 feet). Can be a real challenge. Might incorporate this for those long ones.

    @ncp10 said:

    @Joe Duffer said:
    Here's a couple of videos of my friend, Jimmy. He's one of the best putters at my club!

    That is fundamentally like the old-timer described in the Dave Pelz article:
    "An elderly gentleman walks into the Dave Pelz Short Game School in Boca Raton, Fla. .... The old-timer takes his putter and stands facing the cup. Then he produces a sidesaddle-style stroke. Interesting, Pelz thinks. The man’s extended right arm grasps a longish putter on the front of the shaft so the back of his hand faces the hole, with one finger down the shaft like a pointer.

    I've tried this and have gone back to I guess what's called pencil grip. In any case when I sense which muscles involved are quite similar if I let my right hand just hang to its neutral position. But I haven't given up on the back of hand facing the target it's just a little more awkward and I'm not sure if it offers more then the neutral pencil grip.

    @ncp10 said:

    @Joe Duffer said:
    Here's a couple of videos of my friend, Jimmy. He's one of the best putters at my club!

    That is fundamentally like the old-timer described in the Dave Pelz article:
    "An elderly gentleman walks into the Dave Pelz Short Game School in Boca Raton, Fla. .... The old-timer takes his putter and stands facing the cup. Then he produces a sidesaddle-style stroke. Interesting, Pelz thinks. The man’s extended right arm grasps a longish putter on the front of the shaft so the back of his hand faces the hole, with one finger down the shaft like a pointer.

    I've tried this and have gone back to I guess what's called pencil grip. In any case when I sense which muscles involved are quite similar if I let my right hand just hang to its neutral position. But I haven't given up on the back of hand facing the target it's just a little more awkward and I'm not sure if it offers more then the neutral pencil grip.

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