Favorite Course Designer

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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,536 ✭✭
    Greg Norman.



    IMHO he’s done a good job delivering what his clients want, which is not always a masterpiece. But his best work is pretty good. I learned to play on a Raynor course, but it was a week that I spent on a Greg Norman design that piled my interest in golf course design.
  • freddiecfreddiec Members Posts: 4,268 ✭✭
    Donald Ross, Reese Jones, Fazio, Mike Strantz
  • tommgtommg Members Posts: 137 ✭✭
    Another vote for Ross. I am looking out my window at one right now. Grew up on it. We are fortunate to have 2 in town and 4 or 5 within an hours drive.

    Windsor/Detroit area.
  • titleist_christitleist_chris Members Posts: 63
    Tom Doak mainly due to the locations where he designs his courses.
  • pearsonifiedpearsonified Extreme enthusiast Members Posts: 1,791 ✭✭
    Moderns:
    • Keith Foster
    • Gil Hanse
    • Tom Doak
    • Coore & Crenshaw
    • David McLay-Kidd
    • Steve Smyers
    • Jeff Brauer


    Classics:
    • Alister MacKenzie
    • William Flynn
    • C. B. Maconald
    • Seth Raynor
    • George C. Thomas, Jr.
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    2018 Tournament Anti: 7.76

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  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,014 ✭✭
    edited Jul 29, 2018 #97
    Classic: Harry Colt | Willie Park Jr.

    Contemporary: Coore-Crenshaw Coolaid drinker | Axland & Proctor
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • JNewstedJNewsted Members Posts: 686 ✭✭
    They’re hard to find, but Langford and Moreau
  • digger91digger91 Members Posts: 79
    Donald Ross, his courses are so natural. My home course is a Ross and it may be “short” by today’s standards but the crowned greens and undulating fairways protect it from really low numbers.
  • moegolfer11moegolfer11 steal your face right off your head Members Posts: 2,185 ✭✭
    edited Jun 18, 2018 #100
    Can I put my take out there about Donald Ross courses...



    They're all relatively the same. Short and windy with front to back sloping greens. The only ones that have really stuck with me were Brookside, Maketewah (can be unreasonably brutal), and Columbus Country Club (imo my fav of his).



    I think the sheer amount of courses he designed is profound on American golf, but his courses are just not my cup of tea.
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  • pearsonifiedpearsonified Extreme enthusiast Members Posts: 1,791 ✭✭
    edited Jun 18, 2018 #101
    They're all relatively the same. Short and windy with front to back sloping greens.


    I concur about Donald Ross. Most of your round consists of hitting from sub-optimal positions to green complexes that are gonna force you into stressful up-and-downs.



    I appreciate this style of course in tournaments, but for everyday play, I think it saps a bunch of enjoyment from the game.
    Callaway Rogue 9.5º •• Project X HZRDUS Yellow 75 6.5
    TM 2016 M2 3HL 16.5º •• Aldila NV 2KXV Orange 65x
    Callaway Apex 20º •• Project X EvenFlow Black Hybrid 6.5
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC Fli-Hi 4 (22º) •• Paderson IMRT KG95-IRT30
    Adams CMB 5-P (27º-46º) •• DG TI S400
    TM MG 50º/9º •• Project X LZ 5.5
    TM MG 54º/11º •• DG Wedge
    TM ATV Grind Tour Spin 60º •• KBS 105 Wedge
    Odyssey Versa 330M BWB 34"

    For sale:
    Tour-only Cleveland 588 CB 4-P with PX 6.5

    2018 Tournament Index: 2.56 (see results)
    2018 Tournament Anti: 7.76

    Current anti-handicap: 4.7
  • AMM315AMM315 Members Posts: 223 ✭✭

    They're all relatively the same. Short and windy with front to back sloping greens.


    I concur about Donald Ross. Most of your round consists of hitting from sub-optimal positions to green complexes that are gonna force you into stressful up-and-downs.



    I appreciate this style of course in tournaments, but for everyday play, I think it saps a bunch of enjoyment from the game.




    This couldn't have described my round at Pinehurst #2 any better. Probably really fun to watch the pros suffer, but I was surprised at how unenjoyable the round was. Dont get me wrong, it was a very cool experience, but it felt like one of those places you just play to scratch off the list. Getting your a** kicked every hole is only funny for so long. My buddy and I had far more enjoyment out of our round at Dormie Club.
  • I struggle with this question: Depends on the day between MacKenzie and McDonald/Raynor.
  • scottc25scottc25 Members Posts: 633 ✭✭
    AMM315 wrote:


    They're all relatively the same. Short and windy with front to back sloping greens.


    I concur about Donald Ross. Most of your round consists of hitting from sub-optimal positions to green complexes that are gonna force you into stressful up-and-downs.



    I appreciate this style of course in tournaments, but for everyday play, I think it saps a bunch of enjoyment from the game.




    This couldn't have described my round at Pinehurst #2 any better. Probably really fun to watch the pros suffer, but I was surprised at how unenjoyable the round was. Dont get me wrong, it was a very cool experience, but it felt like one of those places you just play to scratch off the list. Getting your a** kicked every hole is only funny for so long. My buddy and I had far more enjoyment out of our round at Dormie Club.




    I just played #2 a couple weeks ago and within the first 5-6 holes everyone except for myself putted off the green. One of them even putted into a bunker. Two of them were super frustrated playing. The only saving grace for them is they were playing from 6k yards when based on their length they should have played back a set of tees.



    I am a 4 cap and was happy with my 41 on the front. Then mental fatigue set in on the back and I shot 44.



    The greens once you are on them are awesome however. They were rolling at 12.5 the day I was there and were perfectly smooth. If you missed a putt it was all on you.
  • AMM315AMM315 Members Posts: 223 ✭✭
    scottc25 wrote:

    AMM315 wrote:


    They're all relatively the same. Short and windy with front to back sloping greens.


    I concur about Donald Ross. Most of your round consists of hitting from sub-optimal positions to green complexes that are gonna force you into stressful up-and-downs.



    I appreciate this style of course in tournaments, but for everyday play, I think it saps a bunch of enjoyment from the game.




    This couldn't have described my round at Pinehurst #2 any better. Probably really fun to watch the pros suffer, but I was surprised at how unenjoyable the round was. Dont get me wrong, it was a very cool experience, but it felt like one of those places you just play to scratch off the list. Getting your a** kicked every hole is only funny for so long. My buddy and I had far more enjoyment out of our round at Dormie Club.




    I just played #2 a couple weeks ago and within the first 5-6 holes everyone except for myself putted off the green. One of them even putted into a bunker. Two of them were super frustrated playing. The only saving grace for them is they were playing from 6k yards when based on their length they should have played back a set of tees.



    I am a 4 cap and was happy with my 41 on the front. Then mental fatigue set in on the back and I shot 44.



    The greens once you are on them are awesome however. They were rolling at 12.5 the day I was there and were perfectly smooth. If you missed a putt it was all on you.






    Completely agree with you on the putts. I played a couple weeks ago as well and they were very quick, smooth, and true. Definitely a challenge! I thought the fairways were super fair, which I guess when you have greens as such you’ve got to have forgiving fairways. That course is definitely a place where you want to get back out there having seen the course once, but ****, that a** kicking makes you think twice.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,287 ✭✭
    scottc25 wrote:

    AMM315 wrote:


    They're all relatively the same. Short and windy with front to back sloping greens.


    I concur about Donald Ross. Most of your round consists of hitting from sub-optimal positions to green complexes that are gonna force you into stressful up-and-downs.



    I appreciate this style of course in tournaments, but for everyday play, I think it saps a bunch of enjoyment from the game.




    This couldn't have described my round at Pinehurst #2 any better. Probably really fun to watch the pros suffer, but I was surprised at how unenjoyable the round was. Dont get me wrong, it was a very cool experience, but it felt like one of those places you just play to scratch off the list. Getting your a** kicked every hole is only funny for so long. My buddy and I had far more enjoyment out of our round at Dormie Club.




    I just played #2 a couple weeks ago and within the first 5-6 holes everyone except for myself putted off the green. One of them even putted into a bunker. Two of them were super frustrated playing. The only saving grace for them is they were playing from 6k yards when based on their length they should have played back a set of tees.



    I am a 4 cap and was happy with my 41 on the front. Then mental fatigue set in on the back and I shot 44.



    The greens once you are on them are awesome however. They were rolling at 12.5 the day I was there and were perfectly smooth. If you missed a putt it was all on you.




    That is because Coore / Crenshaw didn't restore the course to it's original design. They just restored the fairways and rough.
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,014 ✭✭
    The $2.5 million project was conducted by Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw and included work on every hole. Features of the project include:
    • Increase fairway widths Fairways were widened by as much as 50%, offering more strategic options in playing holes from tee to green.
    • Removal of rough All rough was eliminated, establishing two heights of grass: greens and everything else.
    • Reintroduction of natural areas 35 acres of irrigated turf were removed, restoring natural areas of sand, wire grass, pine straw and a variety of native grasses.
    • Turf maintenance 650 irrigation heads were eliminated, and the centerline irrigation was restored.
    • Wiregrass More than 200,000 plants were added
    • Overseeding Eliminated during the winter months, allowing for firm, fast conditions throughout the year
    • Increased length Thirteen new tees were added to the championship course, increasing the total championship length by more than 300 yards, to 7,565 from 7,214.
    • Bunker modifications Several bunkers were restored, eliminated or reshaped based on aerial images of the course from the 1940s, and bunkers were edged to create rustic appearance
    • Greens Only two (15 and 17) were modified slightly to increase hole locations.
    • Cart paths Relocated and concrete removed.
  • ceejay81ceejay81 Love that chicken from Popeyes! Washington, DCMembers Posts: 1,701 ✭✭
    I'm around an 18-19 cap and I think PH #2 is one of the best courses. I played it back in April and shot 47/51 with a birdie on the 5th hole. I get how Donald Ross designs can be frustrating to people with really terrible short games. I only putted one off the green. On the 9th hole, I hit the green in regulation, putted off the back right, chipped it back on and two putted for a 5. Standard 3 putt, lol. I loved the challenge of navigating around those greens. Same thing with playing at Pine Needles.



    I think one of the best features of the course is that it's hard to lose a golf ball. Being a high handicapper, this part is a yuge selling point when going to an upper end golf course. I'd much rather play a course like #2 instead of going to a place with a bunch of forced carries with forest or high grass on either side of the fairways. I guess I'd rather have it be more penal around the greens than off the tee box because I can spray it a little bit with the longer clubs.
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  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,287 ✭✭
    duffer987 wrote:


    The $2.5 million project was conducted by Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw and included work on every hole. Features of the project include:
    • Increase fairway widths Fairways were widened by as much as 50%, offering more strategic options in playing holes from tee to green.
    • Removal of rough All rough was eliminated, establishing two heights of grass: greens and everything else.
    • Reintroduction of natural areas 35 acres of irrigated turf were removed, restoring natural areas of sand, wire grass, pine straw and a variety of native grasses.
    • Turf maintenance 650 irrigation heads were eliminated, and the centerline irrigation was restored.
    • Wiregrass More than 200,000 plants were added
    • Overseeding Eliminated during the winter months, allowing for firm, fast conditions throughout the year
    • Increased length Thirteen new tees were added to the championship course, increasing the total championship length by more than 300 yards, to 7,565 from 7,214.
    • Bunker modifications Several bunkers were restored, eliminated or reshaped based on aerial images of the course from the 1940s, and bunkers were edged to create rustic appearance
    • Greens Only two (15 and 17) were modified slightly to increase hole locations.
    • Cart paths Relocated and concrete removed.





    Yes, but they didn't restore the greens to the original design. The course was designed with Simps of 5 or 6. Now they are 11 or 12. That's not a restoration so the course doesn't play anything like it did originally.
  • Drewmiller07Drewmiller07 Members Posts: 153 ✭✭
  • tommgtommg Members Posts: 137 ✭✭
    I’m with ceejay many Ross layouts do not include a lost ball. They are playable. I play two regularly and score the same as the fescued , hazard filled courses. My home course (Ross) has no hazards unless you get really wild and I score about the same as those that I have 3 or 4 penalty’s.





  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,014 ✭✭

    duffer987 wrote:


    The $2.5 million project was conducted by Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw and included work on every hole. Features of the project include:
    • Increase fairway widths Fairways were widened by as much as 50%, offering more strategic options in playing holes from tee to green.
    • Removal of rough All rough was eliminated, establishing two heights of grass: greens and everything else.
    • Reintroduction of natural areas 35 acres of irrigated turf were removed, restoring natural areas of sand, wire grass, pine straw and a variety of native grasses.
    • Turf maintenance 650 irrigation heads were eliminated, and the centerline irrigation was restored.
    • Wiregrass More than 200,000 plants were added
    • Overseeding Eliminated during the winter months, allowing for firm, fast conditions throughout the year
    • Increased length Thirteen new tees were added to the championship course, increasing the total championship length by more than 300 yards, to 7,565 from 7,214.
    • Bunker modifications Several bunkers were restored, eliminated or reshaped based on aerial images of the course from the 1940s, and bunkers were edged to create rustic appearance
    • Greens Only two (15 and 17) were modified slightly to increase hole locations.
    • Cart paths Relocated and concrete removed.





    Yes, but they didn't restore the greens to the original design. The course was designed with Simps of 5 or 6. Now they are 11 or 12. That's not a restoration so the course doesn't play anything like it did originally.




    Sure, they didn't do much in that regard, though I'm not sure about 'anything like it did originally', I was just including the list for completeness sake.
  • jerebear21jerebear21 Don't Go Left ClubWRX Posts: 3,259 ClubWRX
    edited Oct 9, 2018 #113
    just want to show some love to Steve Smyers



    met him at OM over the weekend; anyone who's been fortunate to play some of his public and private courses have to agree it's exceptional with lots of visual and unlike fazio there's plenty of substance. my favorite of his private obviously OM; my favorite public of his is southern dunes. Exceptional.
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