.355 Vs. .370, Who has switched...and opinions?

Hey guys,

Have a local builder that is going to fit me for a backup set of irons (J15CB) I have and he mentioned that he would intend to bore out the heads to fit .370 parallel tip shafts. I've never had a set of irons like this and was curious about people's experiences? Pros/Cons etc.? What can I expect from this? Is it a waste of time/money?

Lastly, curious.....do many Pros have their clubs built this way?

Cheers in advance,

D

[quote name='DNice26' timestamp='1443879641' post='12404798']
Lastly, curious.....do many Pros have their clubs built this way?


[/quote]

None.


Using Parallel Tip shafts is a way for an OEM or builder to cheap out, by limiting the amount of inventory they need to carry.

That said, there's generally little or no difference in playing characteristics.

I have done it myself in the past, it is such a minor amount of material being removed there is no difference in feel.

Sounds like a cash grab by the clubmaker. Your hosel walls will be thinner which could lead to cracking when bending loft and lie. No reason to spend time boring out a hole where a hole already exist other than .370 shafts can be had at closeout prices.

Most parallel tip shafts are sold in blank lengths, and the tip is trimmed in a progressive fashion as the clubs get shorter. After cutting the shafts get progressively lighter as the clubs get shorter too. Taper tip shafts (.355) are typically constant weight shafts. The short irons are typically stiffer than the parallel shaft equivalents.

One nice thing about parallel tip shafts is a good clubmaker can progressively tip trim them and give you a nice even frequency progression through the set. You can not do this with taper tip shafts, or at least it's not easily done.

You don't have to worry about the hosel wall cracking after boring the heads, and building with parallel tip shafts is not a builder cop out or cheap out methodology. It actually takes the builder more time to build this way. That said, it's not a good practice overall to bore out heads unless you have too.

If you are simply making a back up set I'd get the same shafts as in your gammers. That way the feel will be consistent. No need to go through all the gyrations involved with boring the heads etc.

I wouldn't do that for my customer in a million years!

Search "parallel vs taper"....Lots of my post to answer your questions!

My view are my own!

Joe

Its scary stuffs ..... the builder must have proper tools : vertical drilling machine , high quality drill bits for metal drilling, and experiences.

One time I asked pro shop technician to change my mizuno hybrid's shaft from steel to graphite , therefore it must involve drilling my hybrid's head from .355 to .370 , the pro shop technician was lazy doing the job , 1st problem, the hole is not deep enough, the graphite shaft only enter 1/2 inch ! 2nd problem, the technician, at one time, he start trimming the graphite shaft in order to fit into .355 hole ..... crazy !!. All these problems actually can be avoided if his drill bit was new and very sharp. As I watched him during drilling, he was taking more than 10 minutes and my hybrid was smoking hot due to metal friction ..... damm. So, after small arguments with the technician, I tell him to stop drilling and stop ruinning my hybrids heads. I comeback the next day with new high quailty metal drill bit in order to get his job well done.

I cannot say the results from steel to graphite shaft because I have many swing problems using hybrids. It feels better because it is lighter but start hooking , lol.....

If you insist to change with graphite shaft, make sure the pro golf shop have vertical drilling machine and new drill bit because you are about drilling many irons.

I reamed some Callaway wedge heads to .370 and it was remarkably easy. Started the process using my drill press but in the end working by hand was easier and better overall. The reamer (not a drill bit) followed the old hole and it only took a min. or so to do the job. Really easy with a proper reamer.

[quote name='asw7576' timestamp='1443919377' post='12406878']
Its scary stuffs ..... the builder must have proper tools : vertical drilling machine , high quality drill bits for metal drilling, and experiences.

One time I asked pro shop technician to change my mizuno hybrid's shaft from steel to graphite , therefore it must involve drilling my hybrid's head from .355 to .370 , the pro shop technician was lazy doing the job , 1st problem, the hole is not deep enough, the graphite shaft only enter 1/2 inch ! 2nd problem, the technician, at one time, he start trimming the graphite shaft in order to fit into .355 hole ..... crazy !!. All these problems actually can be avoided if his drill bit was new and very sharp. As I watched him during drilling, he was taking more than 10 minutes and my hybrid was smoking hot due to metal friction ..... damm. So, after small arguments with the technician, I tell him to stop drilling and stop ruinning my hybrids heads. I comeback the next day with new high quailty metal drill bit in order to get his job well done.

I cannot say the results from steel to graphite shaft because I have many swing problems using hybrids. It feels better because it is lighter but start hooking , lol.....

If you insist to change with graphite shaft, make sure the pro golf shop have vertical drilling machine and new drill bit because you are about drilling many irons.
[/quote]


In theory, tapered tip shafts/hosels ensure shaft is centered in the hosel,

Machinists looking for precision will use interference fit first and tapered fit second.

Parallel tip shafts fitted in a parallel bored hosel will be relatively 'loose' (if a technician uses a dull drill bit or oversize drill bit and doesnt finish with a reamer fit will be excessively loose).

Imagine your shaft off center in each iron a different amount, at slightly different angles?
So much for matched sets!

Bushings and beads can help center parallel shafts, but will never be as consistenly centered as with tapered tip shaft in a tapered bore hosel.

more expensive to mfg, takes, more inventory to service but cant imagine a pga pro would be satisfied with parallel shaft tips.
For the rest of us, what we dont know cant hurt us?

Yes, I agree with you .... drilling 8 pieces of irons and expect to get identical result is very risky business.

If it ain't broke, dont fix it.

Lots of "theory" being put out by folks that, while certainly well intentioned, is being done without full understanding of the specific details for the modification.

The actual difference between a .355 tp and a .370 tip shape is extremely small. The tips are not tapered over the entire length of the tip (or full length of the hossel). The taper occurs over only the first 1/2" and the amount of material that needs to be removed is very small. Yes, with enough incompetence, the job can be botched but with the right tools (hand reamer, not a drill) it's extremely difficult to mess up and the results will be no more inconsistent than what you'd see with normal manufacturing tolerances right out of any factory.

Doing so, will have absolutely no impact on the performance of the head or the quality of the build that can be obtained. The ONLY difference is that it changes what shaft options might be available to use. Well, some might say it might have some impact on resale value of the heads if you ever want to sell them relatively soon (with little use).

Now, that being said, it makes no sense to me to do it if it's not actually needed for that particular build. The only reason it should be done is if the specific shaft you are interested in for that build happens to be a parallel tip steel shaft (parallel graphite irons shafts can have a taper added to the shaft as an alternative option).

So in order to really give proper advice to the OP, we need the critical piece of information from the OP that is missing. What shafts were you fit for or do you want installed in this backup set?

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1443950320' post='12407874']
Lots of "theory" being put out by folks that, while certainly well intentioned, is being done without full understanding of the specific details for the modification.

The actual difference between a .355 tp and a .370 tip shape is extremely small. The tips are not tapered over the entire length of the tip (or full length of the hossel). The taper occurs over only the first 1/2" and the amount of material that needs to be removed is very small. Yes, with enough incompetence, the job can be botched but with the right tools (hand reamer, not a drill) it's extremely difficult to mess up and the results will be no more inconsistent than what you'd see with normal manufacturing tolerances right out of any factory.

Doing so, will have absolutely no impact on the performance of the head or the quality of the build that can be obtained. The ONLY difference is that it changes what shaft options might be available to use. Well, some might say it might have some impact on resale value of the heads if you ever want to sell them relatively soon (with little use).

Now, that being said, it makes no sense to me to do it if it's not actually needed for that particular build. The only reason it should be done is if the specific shaft you are interested in for that build happens to be a parallel tip steel shaft (parallel graphite irons shafts can have a taper added to the shaft as an alternative option).

So in order to really give proper advice to the OP, we need the critical piece of information from the OP that is missing. What shafts were you fit for or do you want installed in this backup set?
[/quote]

stuartG,

Just to clarify, it is not possible to simply use a single hand reamer to remove the hosel taper from 0.355 to 0.370 inch.

A drill bit doesnt make a perfectly round bore. Reamers make a bore round. For longevity, they are not designed to remove more than a couple thousandths of an inch of metal.

FYI, some top line, graphite shafts are available with tapered tip and parallel tip. eg Nunchuk Xi

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1443972158' post='12408588']
[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1443950320' post='12407874']
Lots of "theory" being put out by folks that, while certainly well intentioned, is being done without full understanding of the specific details for the modification.

The actual difference between a .355 tp and a .370 tip shape is extremely small. The tips are not tapered over the entire length of the tip (or full length of the hossel). The taper occurs over only the first 1/2" and the amount of material that needs to be removed is very small. Yes, with enough incompetence, the job can be botched but with the right tools (hand reamer, not a drill) it's extremely difficult to mess up and the results will be no more inconsistent than what you'd see with normal manufacturing tolerances right out of any factory.

Doing so, will have absolutely no impact on the performance of the head or the quality of the build that can be obtained. The ONLY difference is that it changes what shaft options might be available to use. Well, some might say it might have some impact on resale value of the heads if you ever want to sell them relatively soon (with little use).

Now, that being said, it makes no sense to me to do it if it's not actually needed for that particular build. The only reason it should be done is if the specific shaft you are interested in for that build happens to be a parallel tip steel shaft (parallel graphite irons shafts can have a taper added to the shaft as an alternative option).

So in order to really give proper advice to the OP, we need the critical piece of information from the OP that is missing. What shafts were you fit for or do you want installed in this backup set?
[/quote]

stuartG,

Just to clarify, it is not possible to simply use a single hand reamer to remove the hosel taper from 0.355 to 0.370 inch.

A drill bit doesnt make a perfectly round bore. Reamers make a bore round. For longevity, they are not designed to remove more than a couple thousandths of an inch of metal.
[/quote]
355 tapered hosels can be easily opened up to .370 with a hand reamer. I've done it many times. You are not removing much metal with each revolution since the reamer fits right into the top and quite a way down the hosel since it is .370. Some of the harder stainless steels are harder to do but this has to do with the material not with the reamer.

BTW if you drill the hosel in a fixture and a drill press with minimal chuck runout the holes are round and centered enough for any golf club.

People don't remember why there were tapered hosels in the first place. In the old days before decent expoy adhesive was available the tapered hosel was used with a tapered shaft as a way to provide some mechanical interlock since the available glue wasn't all that strong. This requirement has disappeared since epoxy adhesives became common and affordable.

Today you have all these old wives tales about how tapered shafts are somehow better and some people buy into this. It's nonsence Manufacturers still make some to cater to those who still believe this baloney.

[quote name='asw7576' timestamp='1443919377' post='12406878']
Its scary stuffs ..... the builder must have proper tools : vertical drilling machine , high quality drill bits for metal drilling, and experiences.

One time I asked pro shop technician to change my mizuno hybrid's shaft from steel to graphite , therefore it must involve drilling my hybrid's head from .355 to .370 , the pro shop technician was lazy doing the job , 1st problem, the hole is not deep enough, the graphite shaft only enter 1/2 inch ! 2nd problem, the technician, at one time, he start trimming the graphite shaft in order to fit into .355 hole ..... crazy !!. All these problems actually can be avoided if his drill bit was new and very sharp. As I watched him during drilling, he was taking more than 10 minutes and my hybrid was smoking hot due to metal friction ..... damm. So, after small arguments with the technician, I tell him to stop drilling and stop ruinning my hybrids heads. I comeback the next day with new high quailty metal drill bit in order to get his job well done.

I cannot say the results from steel to graphite shaft because I have many swing problems using hybrids. It feels better because it is lighter but start hooking , lol.....

If you insist to change with graphite shaft, make sure the pro golf shop have vertical drilling machine and new drill bit because you are about drilling many irons.
[/quote]

One does not use a drill to enlarge an existing hole/hosel. One uses a reamer. With a reamer it is a very simple task that most anyone can do and most often can be done by hand.

I have done hundreds and never had an issue. Easy Peezy task people.

I agree with Ronsc on the other things he said.

Easy peezy good enough. YES SIR
What we don't know won't hurt us

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1443972158' post='12408588']
Just to clarify, it is not possible to simply use a single hand reamer to remove the hosel taper from 0.355 to 0.370 inch.
[/quote]

I suggest you actually give it a try before jumping to any conclusions about what is or is not possible.

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1443972158' post='12408588']
For longevity, they are not designed to remove more than a couple thousandths of an inch of metal.
[/quote]

That is certainly true and can be very important in a full blown manufacturing process. However, considering the volume of use the tool gets in club maker environment (and even much less for a hobby builder), tool wear of the reamer is not going to be much of an issue, particularly when balanced against it's ease of use over drilling.

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1444044090' post='12411624']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1443972158' post='12408588']
Just to clarify, it is not possible to simply use a single hand reamer to remove the hosel taper from 0.355 to 0.370 inch.
[/quote]

I suggest you actually give it a try before jumping to any conclusions about what is or is not possible.

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1443972158' post='12408588']
For longevity, they are not designed to remove more than a couple thousandths of an inch of metal.
[/quote]

That is certainly true and can be very important in a full blown manufacturing process. However, considering the volume of use the tool gets in club maker environment (and even much less for a hobby builder), tool wear of the reamer is not going to be much of an issue, particularly when balanced against it's ease of use over drilling.
[/quote]

I drilled and reamed my current irons.
Drill bits are less than $10.00. Used two different size drill bits and one reamer to take it to size.
(not a hand reamer with tapered lead)

I know enough to not force any machine tool. Its not good practice for a number of reasons.