Private Club Membership - How far away is too far away?

I've been debating becoming a member at a private golf & athletic club for quite sometime. With the New Year rapidly approaching I would like to start 2016 as an official member at a private club. I am having a really tough time making a decision so I thought I would share a little bit of information about me and get some feedback from the GolfWRX Community.

About Me:

31 years old

In a serious/long term relationship but not married & do not have children

Work Four 10-Hour Shifts, No intentions to change career or location (unless it's a perfect opportunity)

Currently play 2-3 rounds a week (weather permitting)

Low single digit index

Golf Goals: Pass the local qualifier for a major USGA Event, see how the regional goes from there

Club Goals: Golf as much as possible. Socialize and develop golf, business and personal relationships

I live in an area of Northern California that has 4 Private Clubs within my budget. I've taken an official tour at 3 of 4 clubs. I've played 3 of the 4 clubs within the last 2 months, I'll number them in no specific order and share my pros and cons with each:

1)

pros: 25 minutes from home. established social network. tastefully upgraded clubhouse/pro shop/locker room. great restaurant and EXCELLENT customer service from the Member Director. Offer a Young Exec Membership that is Month to Month and Fees/Dues will not increase until 2024 (includes gf/wife and any kids under 21)

cons: closed mondays. surrounded by cow pastures (stinks in the summer), course has absolutely no character and the back 9 is closed till April 2016. Getting a lot of new members because the initiation and monthly dues are very affordable even for just the weekend golfer.

2)

pros: 25 minutes from home. course has a lot of character and is challenging. athletic club is top notch. Offer a Young Exec Membership (two year minimum) and Fees/Dues will not increase increase until 2024 (includes gf/wife and any kids under 21)

cons: closed mondays, clubhouse/pro shop/locker room and restaurant are very outdated. Uphill driving range, average age of golf members is 65 years old. a lot of my customers are currently members there/might be hard to become an equal. TERRIBLE customer service from the Member Director. Took weeks to get a call back after multiple emails, calls and eventually going around the membership department to get noticed.

3)

pros: course is very well maintained. Had my first and only Hole-In-One there 3 weeks ago. clubhouse and restaurant are masculine/prestigious and a place I would spend time at even on non-golf days. Access to multiple swim and athletic clubs around Northern California. Unlimited play at a second club (90 minutes from home) and they partner with clubs in Southern California. 4 months out of the year so I could play unlimited golf for free at those clubs on a vacation.

cons: closed mondays, 30 mins away on a good day/1 hour away during commute hours, NO DRIVING RANGE, no athletic club on site (multiple clubs available are a minimum of 45 mins from home). IMPOSSIBLE to get a hold of the membership director after my initial tour. Fees/Dues will increase if I add a girlfriend/wife and again with each child I have.

4)

pros: TWO (2) 18-Hole courses, open 7 Days a week, kept in incredible condition,Courses have average/above average layout & character, grass driving range, resort property, do not know any current members/can go in there fresh and establish myself without any preconceived notions. Member Director exceeded my expectations, already have been welcomed by a couple members that were cc'd in an email.

cons: 50 minutes away from home on avg. Fees/Dues increase in 2020, 2025 and 2030

So, lets just say I will be at one of the above clubs for the next 5 years. Knowing they're all within budget, knowing my work schedule and my personal life, which would be the one you would consider?

Boils down to is 50 minutes too far IMO. Drinker? Can course 1 be eliminated due to not being that great to play?

Guest play policies are important, quarterly food and beverage minimums are too ( if you're playing 2-3 days a week that shouldn't be a problem) If you practice a lot the best practice/short game facility is the way I would lean.
3 & 4 sound the best and having been a member of a private club in the bay area for 20 years I like the idea of 2 18 hole tracks. 50 minutes is tough though and if you're a social drinker that drive home should be considered.
Is Fountain Grove one of the 4?

Everyone is different...and priorities will depend on the individual. There are a million variables, but based on my experience being a private club member for just over 20 years (from ages 27-48) my top 3 priorities for joining a club would rank something like this:

1. Given a minimum of "good" course design and conditions, the most important thing is finding the right fit in terms of the guys & the game. A great course means little if you can't get a good competitive regular game with good guys, some $$ action that you're comfortable with, and a decent social scene after golf. Gotta be the right fit "culturally."

2. Excellent greens, consistently maintained throughout the season, trump a better designed course with just mediocre greens, or a course that only has good greens for several weeks out of the year.

3. Convenience of living close to the club (short, easy drive) is huge if you like to practice regularly or stop by for meals/socializing frequently...especially if you enjoy the occasional cocktail. Of course if you find the perfect club you could always relocate your residence to be closer!

Lots of other factors of course, but these are my most important.

I was a member of a private club for a few years. Let it go because it was not convenient to use. Pick the one that you think you will use the most or you will eventually grow tired of paying for it.

Proximity is key. That's the biggest issue across the board whether you're talking about where you work, where you work out, where you bank, where you shop, etc…The closer the better. So given your options weigh that heavily. A 40 minute drive each way is a big deal. Not so much if it's between your office and home. Also, If you have a current health club membership maybe you can dump it and use your golf club. Consider the savings. But keep in mind, combining HC and GC isnt always a great match. Generally, you cant lift on the same day you play. My experience has taught me that the social aspect makes a difference. Do you have friends who play there? Is it a place convenient to your friends who might join you as guests? Sounds like your options are good. Hope my 2 cents helps.

Proximity to home and work is a big for me. I changed clubs this year and went from 40 minutes to 20 minutes. I've thanked myself many times over. My current club has a more out going and welcoming membership. Very diverse ages and occupations. That has meant more to me than I would have expected.

I am a bit of a range rat. I always warm up before playing and a really good short game practice area is important to me.

Closed on Monday would be pretty far down on my list of criteria. Those Mondays where I do choose to play it becomes an away game. Seeing another course every now and again is something I really enjoy.

Phred

I vote "None".

The closer clubs won't help your game or your business...it will hurt them.
The farther clubs are too far - they are adding 2 hours to your golf - so on a good day it's still 6-7 hours. Unless it's a Top 100 club in the US your clients won't go.

Use the money and play locally.

I would vote for #4 with a few conditions: if most of your golf is weekend play and if the 50 minute drive isn't in traffic.

I think proximity is big if you like to drop in to play or practice. But I'm assuming on your work days, after a 10 hour shift you're probably not going out for practice sessions. And if you're off work and are not pressed for time, the extra commute time shouldn't be as big an issue.

But I agree with the poster who said the most important factor is the membership. If you can't get a good, regular game (unless you prefer to play alone), then it really doesn't matter how goog everything else is.

That being said, I vote for #4.

Do you plan on having any kids? We live right next to a club and have thought of joining but don't have the time right now with 3 small children. Some clubs do have child care so that could be an a big plus if you plan on having kids in the future.

Like I said, we live right on the course so if we decide to join a private club it would be a no brainer for me. No worries of driving home after a few beverages. If I had to drive 40 minutes I personally wouldn't be interested.

swizbeatz - #1 should be eliminated due to the lack excitement with the course layout but by having a modern clubhouse, established social network and being 25 minutes from home/10 minutes from work it's on my radar for being convenient to drop in and workout, eat and practice.

jjr - Individual Guest Rounds Per Year- #1 6 #2 12. #3 12 #4 Unconfirmed but I'll ask tomorrow. I've totaled all expenses from Initiation, Monthly Dues, F&B, Cart Fee, Capital Dues and Renewal Charges. #1 is by far the most affordable but the least appealing course. Numbers 2, 3 and 4 all hover around the same amount in the long run (when factoring over the next 5 years). Yes, Fountaingrove is on the list.

dpb5031 - Those are 3 great requirements. I'm really struggling on my decision because I don't want to join a club just for the quality of the course and end up being only about golf. I really want to find somewhere that I will be accepted, have some common interests with other members and actually enjoy myself on and off the links. I was just discussing with my girlfriend how if I find a club I absolutely love I/we could easily sacrifice the drive time for the first couple years and then move closer if we end up having a family.

CRider - I know current members at course #1 & #2 because they're in the area of where I live and work. I honestly do not have any close friends who would consider joining a private club. My intentions are to meet current / new members and establish a golf/personal friendship.

Phreddy - My cousin was the same way when it came to his club in Orange County. He had a 45 minute drive because he could only go through town to get to the club with way to many stop lights and signs. He ended up moving to a club that is 5 minutes away but it lacks so many amenities and perks. Closed on Monday is big for me because I currently have Mondays off 3 months out of the year and if my predictions are correct It will be going up to 6 months a year.

ChipDriver - I read your reply earlier and I'm definitely pondering it. I do not own my own business so I would not be working when I see my customers. I might be over thinking this but I feel they would always see me as "Andrew from ABC Inc." and not "New Member Andrew R"

From_Parts_Unknown - yes, #4 is 50 mins of country/vineyard driving. Not much actual traffic but if there is an event or accident than it will bring the 2-lane highway to a snails pace. #1, #2 and #3 are all freeway/city streets and could easily take longer than projected during commute times.

deadsolid...shank - Yeah, working 10 hour days really limits my golf to 3 rounds a week. However, in the summer I am sure I could easily roll to the club to hit the range or squeeze in 9 holes but I have so many public courses around work and home that I could stop by there if I get the itch. I also work an office job so even if I could run up before work/lunch break/after I would really want to change. I think by dedicating myself to the game I could accomplish a lot more on my 3 days off and not feel rushed.

deejaid - Children wouldn't come into the picture for at least 2-3 years so by that time I could easily walk away from any of the above and feel I've gotten my moneys worth. I was discussing with my girlfriend how now in our personal lives/careers we could handle the extra drive time to the club because we do not have a dog/child/etc. My current commute to work is 10-15 mins each way so the longer drive to #4 would be tolerable since it would be 2 to 3 times a week, not 5 to 7

I finally joined a club this year and the big reason was proximity. After being a member now for about 6 months, I can say with certainty that the closer the club the better. I am able to get out from work and to the club quickly which is huge for me. I'm also able to go from my house to the range in under 15 minutes, which makes it nice whenever the mood strikes. I have many colleagues and friends who constantly complain their club is over 40 minutes away. They can't leave the office at 3:30 and get in a quick 9, it just isn't possible. As for closed on Mondays, a lot of private courses do that so they can maintain the course in much better conditions than a public track. I know our course is closed Monday mornings which I have yet to find as an inconvenience to me golfing. Finally, the range is a huge factor for me. There are some solid clubs that have crappy ranges. If you have a solid club with a great range, it makes a huge difference in my opinion (if you are the practicing type). Just a couple of thoughts from a new club guy who went through the whole process just recently.

I would pick the one where you like the golf course best. Especially if you have one that you definitely prefer. You will spend most of your time on the course when you are at the club and I have found that the golf course is much more important than any of that other stuff when picking a club (for me).

When I first joined our club we lived about 30 minutes away and did not have children. Ten years and 2 children later we ended up moving into a new home that is just 5 minutes from the club. Proximity is a huge advantage for all of the reasons stated above. It became even more advantageous when my younger daughter started playing. It's very easy to swing over to the club for 5 or 6 holes after work/school, practice, etc. She's a HS Junior now and will most likely be playing D1 college golf on a scholarship and is currently in the midst of the recruiting process.

The social part is huge for us. At this point, the majority of our friends are those we know from the club. There's a men's game Wed & Fri at 1 pm, Thursday skins at 5 pm, and both weekend mornings at 10 a.m. There are about 30 guys in the men's group, 8-24 on any given day. There's another mens group that goes off earlier on the weekends also.

I think the idea of finding a great club with the idea that you could move closer in the future is a good one.

And being closed on Mondays would not be a concern for me. Most private clubs are closed on Mondays and after playing the weekend it's a nice forced break.

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1450052694' post='12716316']
Everyone is different...and priorities will depend on the individual. There are a million variables, but based on my experience being a private club member for just over 20 years (from ages 27-48) my top 3 priorities for joining a club would rank something like this:

1. Given a minimum of "good" course design and conditions, the most important thing is finding the right fit in terms of the guys & the game. A great course means little if you can't get a good competitive regular game with good guys, some $$ action that you're comfortable with, and a decent social scene after golf. Gotta be the right fit "culturally."

2. Excellent greens, consistently maintained throughout the season, trump a better designed course with just mediocre greens, or a course that only has good greens for several weeks out of the year.

3. Convenience of living close to the club (short, easy drive) is huge if you like to practice regularly or stop by for meals/socializing frequently...especially if you enjoy the occasional cocktail. Of course if you find the perfect club you could always relocate your residence to be closer!

Lots of other factors of course, but these are my most important.
[/quote]

Pretty much all of this! 30 minutes max IMO but even that is probably too far, having a steady game and being able to jump into games on random days is HUGE, social matters if you are planning on spending time there.

You have to decide for yourself which club is the right choice. You’re weighing most of the big factors – cost of dues, location, quality of course, type of membership, etc. A few other things you might want to look into:

· What’s the financial status of each club? What is their history of assessing members? What “hidden fees” do they charge? What is the F&B minimum? Just looking at your summaries, I’d be skeptical about course 1 on these fronts. “Tastefully updated” clubhouses often mean debt, and affordable dues are often a way to get new members roped in while relying on hidden fees and assessments to help balance the budget. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but it’s something you should look into.

· How is the club managed? Is it member-owned, family/individually owned, or owned by a corporation or business? In my experience, member-owned clubs make stupid decisions (the members don’t understand the golf business and also tend to be older guys, so they tend to push costs downstream by racking up debt under the assumption that they’ll die or leave before they have to eat the expenses). Corporate-owned courses can be very bottom-line focused – they may allow too much guest play or cut budgets in areas that matter to you. In my experience, courses owned by a family or individual benefit both from having an operator who understands the business as well as an owner who sees the course as their baby and wants to protect it. Most are in the business because they love golf, and not because it’s necessarily profitable. That’s important, and moreso today than ever with the overbuilt course market.

· Who pays the bills? Many clubs that are 25+ years old rely on aging members for revenue. In a lot of cases, these guys are too old to play golf but they keep their membership because they love the place after spending many years there, and enjoy going to dinner once in a while. These guys are important and wonderful to have, but the downside is obvious – they don’t stick around for long. If a club is relying on very old members to pay the bills, then it’s a recipe for financial difficulties in upcoming years that will end up hitting your pocket.

I know which club I'd tell you to choose, but it's not my money and I don't know any of the specifics on any of them so my advice is basically worthless. I’d get as many answers as possible to the questions above and make sure I’m comfortable with them, and then weigh the factors you're already weighing to reach the right decision. Keep in mind that "none of the above" is always an option too - I'd rather not be a member of a club than be a member of the wrong one.

I'll keep this simple

If it's outside 30 minutes it's a deal breaker
Golf course, golf course, golf course


All the amentities and clubhouse are super but i want to play golf not sit inside playing cards sipping on soup. Give me decent amentities and a golf course I enjoy all day every day.

It might be easier to make a decision if you rephrase the question.

Priority List:

1) Course

2) Commute

3) Practice facitlity

4) Club house/culture

5) Job

6) LT gf.

Looks like you are changing jobs and testing your relationship.

Good luck and play well!

First off, don't put much stock in your interactions with the membership director. Odds are you won't see much of them ever again once you sign. Pay much more attention to the pros and people you will actually deal with.


Seems like it's really between 2 and 4. I would only choose 4 if you're willing to move closer to the club down the road. Just think that a lot of the people you meet, etc are going to be from that side of town, plus if you have a 50 minute commute each way you will never golf once you have kids.

I would go with # 4, mainly due to you only working 4 days a week. If GM or Membership Director is bad at 2 and 3, that will not get better unless they are terminated. If the drive does become too much and things improve at course 2 and 3, you could always go to one of them. My experience is never believe anything a membership director tells you, find out the facts by talking to current members.

Proximity, as has already been stated, is really key. Not having to eat up an entire day to play golf is the primary benefit of going private. A big problem with a longer commute is that it makes playing early (have to get up really early) or late (getting back for dinner is tough/impossible) so much more difficult. GF and family won't want to meet you there after the rounds if they have to drive too far.

Also, an unresponsive membership director is not always a bad sign. You want your golf club to not NEED new members. Just make sure to do your homework on the club finances.

TarHeelNation3 - I get what you're saying. The convenience to just drop in is awesome but on the days where I am working or have other obligations limiting me from actually playing there are 6 Ranges/Practice facilities closer than the nearest club on my list. Yes, I might have to pay a few bucks for range balls but this wouldn't happen often enough that it would break the bank. Heck, it would probably be a wash when you compared the cost of range balls to the cost of gas going to and from the club.

FairwayFred - I get what you're saying. Location, property and culture are huge but if the course doesn't hold my interest or attention than I have no business being a member.

Thurmdiesel - I get what you're saying. I don't want to join #1 and within 6 months receive notice that they need every member to fork out $5,000 to cover debt to avoid going bankrupt. I was told personally that #2 requires a mandatory capital gains payment just to build a nest egg to try and remodel sometime in the next 5 to 10 years. Well, I might not be at that club then so my contributions are basically for nothing. #4 is owned by a group that has their hands deep into the cookie jar. Golf is a huge priority as well as the hotel on it's property. It is managed by a corporation that is well known across the US.

dpb5031 - I totally agree. If kids come into play then location location location. At that point I would either relocate my residence or change clubs. I would want my wife and kids to feel comfortable and know people inside and outside of the club community. Would be great if other members kids went to the same school. Makes those social gatherings a lot more enjoyable. Shoot me a PM with your choice.

j13 - I get it. I'm not looking for the best book club to join. It truly is about the golf!

highergr0und - This is so true. I don't want to be stuck with the chore of getting all the kids necessities in a bag and driving one hour or more to a club. It would be a nightmare and I would end up just paying my local Muni since it's convenient.

crazy8golfer - I hear you on that. Nothing changes if the person in charge remains employed. I hear great things from members at #1 because of how affordable it is and the strength of their social scene. However, When talking to members from #2 & #3 about their visits to #1 all I hear are complaints about the course layout and quality. I know a guy from #2 and he feels like his social club is non-existant and the restaurant is so so. He would not dine there unless he was playing that day. Haven't heard much chatter about #3 since it just went full private a year or so ago and haven't heard anything from #4 due to it's distance from my day to day living/work.

Bazinky - I get that. Is the response from #1 so great because they are really hurting and need the money going forward?

***Here is one more thing to add to all of this. I am 31 years old and #1, #2 and #4 offer a Young Exec Membership for persons under 40. That is 9 years away. Yes, initiations may increase in those 9 years but right now I would not be paying a premium for initiation or monthly dues. They are all allowing me to test the waters, to see if a Full Proprietary/Resalable Membership is right for me when the time comes. I can always switch clubs in the unlikely event my career changes, when my family expands or if I absolutely hate it.***

[quote name='awr_84' timestamp='1450050079' post='12716134']
I've been debating becoming a member at a private golf & athletic club for quite sometime. With the New Year rapidly approaching I would like to start 2016 as an official member at a private club. I am having a really tough time making a decision so I thought I would share a little bit of information about me and get some feedback from the GolfWRX Community.

About Me:
31 years old
In a serious/long term relationship but not married & do not have children
Work Four 10-Hour Shifts, No intentions to change career or location (unless it's a perfect opportunity)
Currently play 2-3 rounds a week (weather permitting)
Low single digit index
Golf Goals: Pass the local qualifier for a major USGA Event, see how the regional goes from there
Club Goals: Golf as much as possible. Socialize and develop golf, business and personal relationships

I live in an area of Northern California that has 4 Private Clubs within my budget. I've taken an official tour at 3 of 4 clubs. I've played 3 of the 4 clubs within the last 2 months, I'll number them in no specific order and share my pros and cons with each:

1)
pros: 25 minutes from home. established social network. tastefully upgraded clubhouse/pro shop/locker room. great restaurant and EXCELLENT customer service from the Member Director. Offer a Young Exec Membership that is Month to Month and Fees/Dues will not increase until 2024 (includes gf/wife and any kids under 21)

cons: closed mondays. surrounded by cow pastures (stinks in the summer), course has absolutely no character and the back 9 is closed till April 2016. Getting a lot of new members because the initiation and monthly dues are very affordable even for just the weekend golfer.

2)
pros: 25 minutes from home. course has a lot of character and is challenging. athletic club is top notch. Offer a Young Exec Membership (two year minimum) and Fees/Dues will not increase increase until 2024 (includes gf/wife and any kids under 21)

cons: closed mondays, clubhouse/pro shop/locker room and restaurant are very outdated. Uphill driving range, average age of golf members is 65 years old. a lot of my customers are currently members there/might be hard to become an equal. TERRIBLE customer service from the Member Director. Took weeks to get a call back after multiple emails, calls and eventually going around the membership department to get noticed.

3)
pros: course is very well maintained. Had my first and only Hole-In-One there 3 weeks ago. clubhouse and restaurant are masculine/prestigious and a place I would spend time at even on non-golf days. Access to multiple swim and athletic clubs around Northern California. Unlimited play at a second club (90 minutes from home) and they partner with clubs in Southern California. 4 months out of the year so I could play unlimited golf for free at those clubs on a vacation.

cons: closed mondays, 30 mins away on a good day/1 hour away during commute hours, NO DRIVING RANGE, no athletic club on site (multiple clubs available are a minimum of 45 mins from home). IMPOSSIBLE to get a hold of the membership director after my initial tour. Fees/Dues will increase if I add a girlfriend/wife and again with each child I have.

4)
pros: TWO (2) 18-Hole courses, open 7 Days a week, kept in incredible condition,Courses have average/above average layout & character, grass driving range, resort property, do not know any current members/can go in there fresh and establish myself without any preconceived notions. Member Director exceeded my expectations, already have been welcomed by a couple members that were cc'd in an email.

cons: 50 minutes away from home on avg. Fees/Dues increase in 2020, 2025 and 2030

So, lets just say I will be at one of the above clubs for the next 5 years. Knowing they're all within budget, knowing my work schedule and my personal life, which would be the one you would consider?
[/quote]1, off the list. 9 holes you don't like, 9 that won't be good until 2017, realistically. 2, sounds OK, but if the membership is older, you won't see much capital improvement, and it might be hard to find a compatible group. 3, facility sounds fine, but for the driving range, My experience in metro areas (Houston, SA, Austin, Metroplex) is that commute time is all the time. 4, great, but it's a 3 hour door to door when you want to get there early and have a sandwich after playing. Then, a 4 hour round and it's all day. Plus, as a resort of some kind, there will be non-member groups out there. I would go with 2, but I'm an old guy, I would fit right in. For you, playing with older customers, assuming you're fun to play with, could be good for your business. Two things I would be wary of. 30 minutes is an hour round trip. That might get old after a time. Second, if the club is considering capital improvements, how will they be financed? Assessments, dues increases, where is the money? Whatever you choose, I hope it's a good fit and you enjoy.

No increase in dues/ fees until 2024....sounds hard to believe

Is it possible to name the courses listed 1-4?

Farmer - Thanks for your input. I played a public course this morning that happened to be located along the same route at #4. Only difference, it was 15 minutes from my house. Left my place at 11am, stopped by the bank, had time to BS before the round then put in 18 and was home by 3:15pm. I was trying to picture the drive if it were 30-45 minutes longer/farther. I'm not sure how long I'd be able to stomach the commute If I didn't end up moving closer to #4 within 2 years. Really eye opening. I'll ask the controller about the financial states and plans for #2 tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up.

Landolakes - I didn't mean that the dues/fees wouldn't fluctuate but they wouldn't be as high as the proprietary members until I turned 40 years old. It's a entry level membership, non-resaleable.

I would recommend 20 minutes as the max. Anything greater and after awhile you'll forego hopping over to hit balls, play a few holes, or have drink with friends.

#3 stonetree?

#4 silverado?

Wish I could weigh in more to help you with your decision.
#1 and #2 sound convenient and check off most of the boxes.

#3 having no range is a pretty major con. The variability in traffic is a downside.
#4 is personally too far for me and also is a resort, so pace of play can be unpredictable

I think the convenience of the club is what ultimately is going to decide how much _I_ am going to play or drop in to practice. #1 and #2 sound like your best bet for getting as much golf in as possible.

Not an easy decision... good luck!