Clubhouse Grille

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  • ReasonabilityReasonability Mirror work is a good idea. Members Posts: 8,530 ✭✭
    Hankshank wrote:

    Spooky67 wrote:



    Ooopps! Failed to add a hearty welcome to Spooky. Hopefully, our mundane discussion of wrong bathrooms doesn't chase him away.




    No worries and not at all...I have my own bathroom history..lol...let's just say the wife prefers me to have my own bathroom and I do too...lol!


    scomac2002 wrote:


    Used the ladies' washroom at the club plenty of times on purpose. When there's three guys waiting to use the men's head, I just go next door if it's free. I've gotten lots of interesting looks when I pop out and there's a lady standing there waiting... image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />




    Been there done that, any place that has a lock on the door and room for one...if I'm next then I'm using whatever is available!


    Here my americano comes up short, what exactly is a "washroom"? The same as a toilet or a locker room? Supposing toilet - Always been a mystery to me, that. I dont know about in the US but I gues its the same as here - some places the washroom are like unisex and some places they are split into ladies/men. Never figured out the system for when to split.And exactly the reason for splitting or not splitting.




    Yes - bathroom and washroom somehow have come to be terms used interchangeably. And to your point, the cultural "taboo" of unisex bathrooms has become quite the area of public policy debate in recent years. There exists in our land a few unisex bathroom facilities... often where space for building two separate bathrooms is limited. Invariably when such somewhat rare cases occurs, a sign near the door suggests locking the door upon entering and knocking on the door before entering.



    This "taboo" we have in the US is deeply rooted for some strange reason and becomes fertile battleground in the political world (which can get us all banned for discussing here on wrx - so enough said there, too). Essentially you can think of it as two camps. Progressively minded folks see no need to splitting and think it's a childish and non-progressive attitude. Those in favor of splitting don't feel comfortable zipping up their garments, passing gas, exposing themselves at a urinal, etc., in front of the opposite ****. It's a protracted and long debate on both sides. It calls into question any number of related "taboos" about children and what they should potentially be exposed to, sexual deviants, and you-name-it areas those who prefer splitting hold dear.



    This whole subject can - and in fact has - boiled up to levels you'd probably giggle at since the lack of concern to split or not split in the first place is probably not really worth worrying about in the first place.



    Customs and traditions and taboos... We humans do settle into cultural norms that can leave those outside looking in scratching their heads in wonderment. This is one of those. And, perhaps WRX has it right when they ask us to steer clear of politics and such since at the end of the day, hotly contested debates about such things on the internet rarely if ever lead to anything good.



    No telling where the US debates over splitting or not splitting will eventually land. And at my age - I have very serious doubts anything significant will change one way or the other in what's left of my lifetime. So for me it's one of things I get a chuckle out of as others get all spun-up about. In my little private world, I'll go to the men's room unless it's out-of-order or I'm about to pop and the ladies room is the only thing available. Then this guy is going to find a way of relieving himself if he has to let-fly on the nearest indoor ficus tree planter. When the options are limited and the urge is strong - you do whatever you have to do! lol.
    A cynic sees the cost of everything
    and the value of nothing.
  • ReasonabilityReasonability Mirror work is a good idea. Members Posts: 8,530 ✭✭
    Well said Sixty. Lots of cool reading in here today! image/read.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':read:' />
    A cynic sees the cost of everything
    and the value of nothing.
  • ReasonabilityReasonability Mirror work is a good idea. Members Posts: 8,530 ✭✭
    edited Jun 13, 2018 #17764
    Scomacer- I'm going to be honest and en route to disagreeing (let me explain) I'll end up agreeing.



    Biking...



    Have eye-witnessed multiple motorcycle accidents over the years. Can't find the words to how horrific they are. Think of a circus cannon shooting a human through the air, only in this case he launches broken and bleeding, lands into oncoming traffic and gets dismembered and well you get the picture. Roadways around here conducive to safe and fun bike riding just don't exist. The original design and intent put into building our abundance of two-lane, winding, hilly roads can barely sustain safe motor vehicle traffic and were never meant to be the place for a bicycle regardless of it's carbon graphite technology, multi-speed, open-road allure. Around here, that doesn't stop the wave of bikers ****-bent on forcing their way and all who drive cars/trucks into danger. My position on this isn't about being a cranky opinionated cuss. It's about loathing the choice between a head-on collision, or killing some fun-loving innocent human who was just out there to relax and have some fun.



    Here comes the 180 I promised.



    While I see these endless miles of cul de sacs - public parks with miles of on and off road biking potential, stationary biking opportunities, and endless ways of getting it done effectively AND safely... a very good friend of mine also knows back problems all too well. And I believe him when he says there's nothing else quite like a good bike ride on the open road that gives his back SUSTAINABLE relief. If he's lying to me about that, it would be first time I've ever caught that man in a lie. He also picks where and when he rides very carefully to absolutely minimize risk to others and himself.



    Just be careful out there my friend. That spine and everything attached to it make for a terrible circus act. I've hopefully witnessed my last view of what can happen out there and those little memory clips can't be erased. Don't want to hear later on you've become a statistic. If you tell me that open road option is the ONLY way to get it done and it works... I believe you.



    EDIT: Also - THANK YOU for responding to the grip and gate drill thing. You and Fella and Bill (and all of you here) restore faith that some of my dribble does sometimes warrant a little feedback now and then! lol.
    A cynic sees the cost of everything
    and the value of nothing.
  • ReasonabilityReasonability Mirror work is a good idea. Members Posts: 8,530 ✭✭



    Stuey -



    If you happen to stumble onto a set of Rifle 5.5 shafts, please hang on to them for me. 6.0 is fine and dandy but I'm not getting any younger. 5.5s are pretty scarce unless you want to pay an arm and a leg. Might end up with easier to locate 5.0s anyway, but thought maybe you'd find a set on the scrap pile one day. (Folks tell me the difference for me in 6 vs 5.5 won't be noticeable enough to make it worth it. I dunno.




    What tip size you looking for? If I was to hazard a guess, probably .355 tapers. Have a set of .370 (5 - GW) Rifle 5.0 sitting around unused. Blue labels, so after TT bought out Royal Precision. Some have mentioned noticing a difference once Rifle became part of TT. I question the validity of that.



    It's a half flex change moving from 6.0 (S+) to 5.5 (S). So whether the difference is noticeable is dependent on how perceptive one is to changes in shaft flex. The usual caveat of everyone's different applies. WTS, if your goal is to "soften up" moving forward, 1/2 flex is perhaps not worth the time or trouble.



    Here's a photo from a 2001 Golfsmith catalog with some info on the RP Rifle's.







    And yet again, I sit in stark amazement at the level of commitment to help out a fellow golfer!



    So I hear ya. The 5.5 thing has way more red-flags attached to it's potential success than its probably worth. After reading your post I believe I'll stick with the 6.0 for another season or two. It's clear that at some point they're going to be too much shaft for my aging swing. For now - they're fine but the day will come when I can't give them what they're asking for.



    Your time with the little tyke. Mighty good reading. Ya know, our son cracked his Mama's ankle bone whacking at it with his little plastic kiddie clubs! Felt horrible for her at the time. Confess to at least "thinking" for a split second... "Hey this kid's got some POWER!" lol.



    Don't tell Mrs. Reason I said that! Something tells me I'd end up with more than a cracked ankle bone.
    A cynic sees the cost of everything
    and the value of nothing.
  • ReasonabilityReasonability Mirror work is a good idea. Members Posts: 8,530 ✭✭
    edited Jun 13, 2018 #17766
    One fine day - experiments with graphite shafted irons will come. It tickles my curiosity too much for it not to one day become a road more traveled.



    You guys remember when ALL shafts were steel. Enter these whippy fiberglass shafts in drivers that sent it a mile out to the push side. Everyone raced right back to steel. But now graphite is in just about every driver sold while irons remain (by and large) steel from the OEM.



    It begs the question - WHY? If it's "better" for a driver why would it be "worse" for an iron? That little riddle will one day drive me to go find out why. No doubt the weight of the heads is in the equation but nowadays a shaft can be made to any imaginable weight, flex, tip size, yadda.
    A cynic sees the cost of everything
    and the value of nothing.
  • ReasonabilityReasonability Mirror work is a good idea. Members Posts: 8,530 ✭✭
    OK one more and I'll STFU and get out of the way so you guys will free more free to play.



    Just today I happen to see Phil in some interview. He discusses how the longer the driver shaft the LESS loft required to control it.



    His logic: A longer shaft will flatten the swing plane (it has to) and will therefore approach the ball during contact more along the ground (shallower angle of attack as they say). This will cause the loft of the clubface to act on the ball sending it higher with more backspin. Ergo a little less loft is called for.



    Conversely, a steeper angle of attack would come from a somewhat shorter driver shaft. By the same logic that will call for a little MORE loft.



    Phil was explaining a time when he carried two drivers with him in the same round. He was getting a little more draw and distance with the longer one, and his goal was to try to control both. (He one one or two times btw with the two-driver strategy).



    So why are being sold longer drivers with MORE loft? For MOST amateurs wouldn't we be better served with shorter drivers with more loft? Seems like we're being a little duped into mixing the distance of a longer shaft with the wrong loft to go with that shaft length.



    I know this tire has been kicked before - but to hear a guy outright say that more loft AND longer inside the same driver bring with it control issues is sort of telling in my book.



    I shall now vaporize for the fun and sanity of other! lol
    A cynic sees the cost of everything
    and the value of nothing.
  • scomac2002scomac2002 Inside the Starters' Hut Members Posts: 5,598 ✭✭
    I did a bit of volunteer fire fighting in my early twenties. I've seen my share of carnage of various sorts. Cycling is not a no risk undertaking and that is exacerbated by motorists who don't give adequate way. As more cyclists hit the road awareness has improved, but by the same token I sympathize with those motorists who run across a swarm of cyclists who won't give way to the motorists either as well as breaking rules of the road at intersections, etc.



    We have quite a bit of cycling infrastructure in town with segregated bike lanes, multi-use paths, etc., but once again as is typical of our times there isn't much consideration given to others beyond get the **** outa my way! image/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> S o, it's always a matter of looking out for everyone else cause you never know what might happen. That said, I'd like to explore some of the bike friendly areas more fully in my area rather than riding the country roads that have become commuter thoroughfares. When on the road locally I always time my rides to avoid commuting hours and that has been satisfactory when going for rides of up to an hour. I've had a couple of close calls over the years often resulting in a change of route and or timing as a preventative measure. That said, I'm realizing that often times the right thing to do is to drive to the area you want to explore and then venture out from there. (It has occurred to me that if we do move further east into the peninsula I will likely join a riding club there that caters to older cyclists that aren't interested in race culture. My SIL rides periodically with that group.) We'll see how I progress going forward and how long it takes me to gain some type of riding condition as to how many adventures I attempt.
    Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
    _____________________________________

    TM RBZ Black 12°
    Adams Tight Lies 2.0 16°/22°
    TM '09 Rescue 25°
    TM Burner Plus 6-AW
    Cleveland Smart Sole 2.0 C
    TM Z Spin 56°
    Rossa Tourismo 3 counterbalanced 37"
  • scomac2002scomac2002 Inside the Starters' Hut Members Posts: 5,598 ✭✭
    A couple of topics that are of interest to me:



    Graphite shafts in irons:



    I'm a fan. I've played graphite shafted irons for 10 years now. Oh sure, I took time off with steel shafted alternatives, but in the end I see no advantage to steel beyond cost. If you suffer from tendinitis and I do, graphite is a godsend! If you're getting older and losing swing speed the weight savings is also welcome once you make the adjustment. The first couple of seasons that I played my i25's I had about 2" of high density lead tape on each one. Now I have none. The trick now is finding appropriate wedge(s) to play with them which is leading me to graphite shafted wedges, a $10 option if you order from the factory which in the day of $200 wedges is no more than they'll charge to alter the lie angle or loft.



    Loft versus shaft length in drivers:



    I think Phil is onto something. I remember last year that the old timers got taking about when they switched to steel from persimmon especially if the new driver had a graphite shaft that they lofted down from 10-10.5 on the persies to 8.5-9.5 with the steel head drivers. Perhaps Phil is just revisiting the physics of generations earlier.



    I struggled to get any sort of performance out of my 913 driver when I first acquired it, It has a 12° head and I tried it all the way up to 13.5° with no benefit. After talking with Fella over the winter about how he had his 910 head set I went the opposite direction and dropped the loft to 11.25° and may even go down to 10.5° to see if there's a benefit. I don't have a lot of reps to go on for obvious reasons, but the darned thing came to life for me being more consistent directionally and the flatter trajectory didn't fall out of the sky quite the same as before.
    Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
    _____________________________________

    TM RBZ Black 12°
    Adams Tight Lies 2.0 16°/22°
    TM '09 Rescue 25°
    TM Burner Plus 6-AW
    Cleveland Smart Sole 2.0 C
    TM Z Spin 56°
    Rossa Tourismo 3 counterbalanced 37"
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,396 ✭✭


    Stuey -



    If you happen to stumble onto a set of Rifle 5.5 shafts, please hang on to them for me. 6.0 is fine and dandy but I'm not getting any younger. 5.5s are pretty scarce unless you want to pay an arm and a leg. Might end up with easier to locate 5.0s anyway, but thought maybe you'd find a set on the scrap pile one day. (Folks tell me the difference for me in 6 vs 5.5 won't be noticeable enough to make it worth it. I dunno.
    Will do I file stuff like that in my mind and believe it or not remember it--- On the other hand I can not tell you what I ate for supper last night
  • scoteescotee Members Posts: 3,402 ✭✭



    Perhaps it could be pointed out that men may be highly allergic to these unless DW is not around, but then I wouldn't know, right? ha


    Funny story, when our second baby was in need of changing one day, my wife asked if I would change his diaper in his[background=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.9)] [/background]room, which was on the second story. Of course I set a fan in the window against the screen blowing on me to keep the odors at bay while I did the quick lane change routine. Meanwhile she was in the kitchen below cooking something for supper. Well the screen popped out at the bottom from the vibration, and gravity took over and the fan fell out and down to the ground and broke into many pieces. I finished changing him, and took him downstairs, and she calmly said 'this time get one of those that sits on the pole so it stays put'... she hadn't even looked, she just knew what happened...maybe she heard the crash image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' />




    Not Fella. The "quick lane change" is part of the morning ritual. Seven days a week, when the lad wakes up about 7:30 a.m. As I've mentioned before in these chronicles, our granddaughter and great-grandson live with us. It's a joy and wouldn't have it any other way. I've become so accustomed to the change, don't even think about. Just tell the lad, "No fooling around. Let's get fresh and be done with it." He listens to his 'Da'. We then share the early morning time together, him sitting in my lap, sometimes viewing WRX on the screen as I try and keep his paws off the keyboard. Life has a way of of taking unanticipated directions.



    Related. So I figured that it was time for the lad to have his own plastic golf club set. So bought him his first set. Three plastic "clubs" some balls, couple of "holes" all in this wheeled cart that he drags around behind him. Wields these implements around like a Jedi light saber trying to whack the ball around the family room. Have to remain vigilant while he's swinging. One day after I got these, grandma comes home with another set of clubs. I doubt there is another 20 month old that already has two sets of sticks. Perhaps a bad precedent, early childhood club ho development.



    (Alas, the boy has woken up. The change has taken place. Now sitting in my lap, watching as I try and finish this composition.)



    Whenever he goes to the basement, he makes a beeline to the club stash. Grabs whenever implement that's at hand, and commences to wielding it around. Knows where I have some balls around the work bench. Swings club at ball. Even more dangerously that with the plastic ones.



    (No touch. Paws off the keyboard.)



    Think he may have future potential. We've been working on his grip some, the 10 finger seems to be working well for him. For about 5 seconds. Fella has to stick around for another 25 years. We've got work to do. It's become important.



    Gotta go, he's becoming rambunctious.




    You are making me smile Fella. I get to see 2 of our 6 grandkids once a week. The 4 yr. old boy is quite the ham. He called me yesterday and asked if I knew how to cut through the Ocean? "No Grady how do you cut through the ocean?" "With a seesaw" He is into knock knock jokes. He makes up some of his own that don't always make any sense at all but he thinks they are hilarious. The jokes aren't but he is! Glad you are getting this time with them image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> And yes I have and do get changing duty every now and then on the little ones. And rambunctious? Wish I could bottle it and get a dose for myself once in awhile. Their energy is endless!
    Turn the mass

    OGA member #15

    Lord help me to be the person my dog thinks I am
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,396 ✭✭
    Spooky67 wrote:


    If I'm in the grille/clubhouse talking and having a beer or two, I will talk equipment if I have seen someone with a club that interests me. I was going to say I'd talk equipment if I'd seen their bag, but I felt that might go in the wrong direction...lol. Anyway, I'll ask a stranger- how do you like "insert club/shaft here". Especially if I see one old club in a new-ish bag. I'm always really interested in a really old club that the owner can't get out of the bag. I know they try to, but they don't find anything better and come back again and again. Do any of you have any "older" clubs that you can't get rid of and play regularly?



    I played a Nike Ignite 410 tour issue head with a UST Proforce PROTO that was just incredible. I got it just as the 460 craze was starting, of course I didn't want to lose the displacement battle so I tried a litany of 460 drivers and always came back to the Ignite 410. I wound up with a TM R1 and that gave the 410 a run but I was inconsistent with the TDR1 so the 410 always wound up in the bag if my driving was off. The 410 was permanently retired when I picked up a 2017 M1, that sealed the deal but the 410 had a 13yr run.



    Another item that WILL NOT go away has been the Oban Devotion that I have played since I got the R1. I have purchased 15-20 shafts looking for something better and it never happens. I pay. I play. I put the Devo back in. I have not found anything better for my swing and the R1 and M1 heads.



    What club has stood the test of time with you?
    Well for a long time like 25 years it was a Ping Zing 2 putter. Now for a long time I was not really a club ho. That started when I got into the golf shop business. I played the same set of 66 Power Bilt Custom Grind Citation irons for 10 years and wore them out. I bought my first set of VIPs in 90 brand new and played them mostly until maybe a year ago. I did carry my first metal fairway wood for 13 seasons it was a old Callaway Steelhead tour head. The only reason I quit hitting it was because the old Pro Force 65 Gold got too stiff for me. I guess for me now the old Cleveland 588s are the oldest in the bag. Those heads I have had since the late 90s. My buddy the Miura dealer did some extensive shaft work on them about 5 years back and I did a grind job on the 60. I am a wedge ho and experiment around with wedges a lot but when it comes to brass tacks those 2 588s are in the bag. Before I became a real club ho I did play a set of MP-33 blades for a couple of years. Note: The Vips in my signature are not the original set> Fellow WRXer Mitchell sent them to me 2 years ago and they were pristine but had Brunswick 7.0 shafts in them which are telephone poles for me now. I had always wanted to build a set of Macgregors with real Hogan Apex shafts. I built those last fall.
  • SilverBulletsSilverBullets BMW Members Posts: 5,899 ✭✭
    scomac2002 wrote:


    I did a bit of volunteer fire fighting in my early twenties. I've seen my share of carnage of various sorts. Cycling is not a no risk undertaking and that is exacerbated by motorists who don't give adequate way. As more cyclists hit the road awareness has improved, but by the same token I sympathize with those motorists who run across a swarm of cyclists who won't give way to the motorists either as well as breaking rules of the road at intersections, etc.



    We have quite a bit of cycling infrastructure in town with segregated bike lanes, multi-use paths, etc., but once again as is typical of our times there isn't much consideration given to others beyond get the **** outa my way! image/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> S o, it's always a matter of looking out for everyone else cause you never know what might happen. That said, I'd like to explore some of the bike friendly areas more fully in my area rather than riding the country roads that have become commuter thoroughfares. When on the road locally I always time my rides to avoid commuting hours and that has been satisfactory when going for rides of up to an hour. I've had a couple of close calls over the years often resulting in a change of route and or timing as a preventative measure. That said, I'm realizing that often times the right thing to do is to drive to the area you want to explore and then venture out from there. (It has occurred to me that if we do move further east into the peninsula I will likely join a riding club there that caters to older cyclists that aren't interested in race culture. My SIL rides periodically with that group.) We'll see how I progress going forward and how long it takes me to gain some type of riding condition as to how many adventures I attempt.




    One of my favorite parts about Phoenix is the canal. Along both sides of the canal is a 40-50 mile paved bike/running/walking path. From central phoenix to Peoria, the canal provides an express route which means tunnels under all major roads. I live a block from an access point to the canal and ride 20ish miles on it weekly. It's a great amenity to have. Back in Ohio it was always street riding. Generally that mean slower rides on 'safer' residential streets. Being able to hop on an unobstructed bike path and ride to Old Town Scottsdale, Tempe or take a long ride across the city is pretty awesome.
    Taylormade M6 10.5* - HZRDUS Smoke Black 6.5
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    Scotty Cameron Circa 62 No. 2 - Scotty Custom Shop
  • Spooky67Spooky67 Members Posts: 1,345 ✭✭
    edited Jun 13, 2018 #17774


    OK one more and I'll STFU and get out of the way so you guys will free more free to play.



    Just today I happen to see Phil in some interview. He discusses how the longer the driver shaft the LESS loft required to control it.



    His logic: A longer shaft will flatten the swing plane (it has to) and will therefore approach the ball during contact more along the ground (shallower angle of attack as they say). This will cause the loft of the clubface to act on the ball sending it higher with more backspin. Ergo a little less loft is called for.



    Conversely, a steeper angle of attack would come from a somewhat shorter driver shaft. By the same logic that will call for a little MORE loft.



    Phil was explaining a time when he carried two drivers with him in the same round. He was getting a little more draw and distance with the longer one, and his goal was to try to control both. (He one one or two times btw with the two-driver strategy).



    So why are being sold longer drivers with MORE loft? For MOST amateurs wouldn't we be better served with shorter drivers with more loft? Seems like we're being a little duped into mixing the distance of a longer shaft with the wrong loft to go with that shaft length.



    I know this tire has been kicked before - but to hear a guy outright say that more loft AND longer inside the same driver bring with it control issues is sort of telling in my book.



    I shall now vaporize for the fun and sanity of other! lol




    I remember when draw and fade biased drivers hit the market and Phil actually carried one of each in his bag during the Masters, two drivers in the bag. I think he pulled his 3w if I remember correctly..? Don't remember if he kept them in for the entire tournament but I do remember him carrying one of each during competition. IMO Phil isn't afraid to make a little money if you get what I'm saying...lol. He's also a bit of a club ho and likes to try different stuff so who knows...
  • Conrad1953Conrad1953 Members Posts: 15,096 ✭✭



    Stuey -



    If you happen to stumble onto a set of Rifle 5.5 shafts, please hang on to them for me. 6.0 is fine and dandy but I'm not getting any younger. 5.5s are pretty scarce unless you want to pay an arm and a leg. Might end up with easier to locate 5.0s anyway, but thought maybe you'd find a set on the scrap pile one day. (Folks tell me the difference for me in 6 vs 5.5 won't be noticeable enough to make it worth it. I dunno.




    What tip size you looking for? If I was to hazard a guess, probably .355 tapers. Have a set of .370 (5 - GW) Rifle 5.0 sitting around unused. Blue labels, so after TT bought out Royal Precision. Some have mentioned noticing a difference once Rifle became part of TT. I question the validity of that.



    It's a half flex change moving from 6.0 (S+) to 5.5 (S). So whether the difference is noticeable is dependent on how perceptive one is to changes in shaft flex. The usual caveat of everyone's different applies. WTS, if your goal is to "soften up" moving forward, 1/2 flex is perhaps not worth the time or trouble.



    Here's a photo from a 2001 Golfsmith catalog with some info on the RP Rifle's.







    I have those Rifle flighted (FCM) shafts in my Mac combo set. They are 5.0s and by today's

    standards, fairly heavy at 135 grams...………..but they don't feel any heavier to me than my

    various Ping iron sets. I was surprised by that when I first hit them, frankly. And, of course,

    these are the Royal Precision (pre TT) shafts....stepless. The shaft bands are still there and

    in good shape.
  • scoteescotee Members Posts: 3,402 ✭✭
    Spooky67 wrote:


    If I'm in the grille/clubhouse talking and having a beer or two, I will talk equipment if I have seen someone with a club that interests me. I was going to say I'd talk equipment if I'd seen their bag, but I felt that might go in the wrong direction...lol. Anyway, I'll ask a stranger- how do you like "insert club/shaft here". Especially if I see one old club in a new-ish bag. I'm always really interested in a really old club that the owner can't get out of the bag. I know they try to, but they don't find anything better and come back again and again. Do any of you have any "older" clubs that you can't get rid of and play regularly?



    I played a Nike Ignite 410 tour issue head with a UST Proforce PROTO that was just incredible. I got it just as the 460 craze was starting, of course I didn't want to lose the displacement battle so I tried a litany of 460 drivers and always came back to the Ignite 410. I wound up with a TM R1 and that gave the 410 a run but I was inconsistent with the TDR1 so the 410 always wound up in the bag if my driving was off. The 410 was permanently retired when I picked up a 2017 M1, that sealed the deal but the 410 had a 13yr run.



    Another item that WILL NOT go away has been the Oban Devotion that I have played since I got the R1. I have purchased 15-20 shafts looking for something better and it never happens. I pay. I play. I put the Devo back in. I have not found anything better for my swing and the R1 and M1 heads.



    What club has stood the test of time with you?




    For me it is two clubs. Cleveland Launcher Comp 5 wood with that Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue shaft that Conrad likes. I had the driver and 3 wood. The driver was one of my best but suddenly I could not hit it high enough. The 3 wood had a heavier shaft that was always too "board like" I kept the 5 and still like it a lot. The other is my non-conforming Callaway Mac Daddy 58 deg. lob wedge. Old and rusty but I love the sole grind and being a member here of the OGA (outlaw golf association) no one cares that I still use it. If you don't know about the OGA, Big Stu is our president and all around bad A$$ good guy image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> and will give you a membership number if you like the idea. Oh and welcome to the Grille.
    Turn the mass

    OGA member #15

    Lord help me to be the person my dog thinks I am
  • scoteescotee Members Posts: 3,402 ✭✭
    Spooky67 wrote:



    OK one more and I'll STFU and get out of the way so you guys will free more free to play.



    Just today I happen to see Phil in some interview. He discusses how the longer the driver shaft the LESS loft required to control it.



    His logic: A longer shaft will flatten the swing plane (it has to) and will therefore approach the ball during contact more along the ground (shallower angle of attack as they say). This will cause the loft of the clubface to act on the ball sending it higher with more backspin. Ergo a little less loft is called for.



    Conversely, a steeper angle of attack would come from a somewhat shorter driver shaft. By the same logic that will call for a little MORE loft.



    Phil was explaining a time when he carried two drivers with him in the same round. He was getting a little more draw and distance with the longer one, and his goal was to try to control both. (He one one or two times btw with the two-driver strategy).



    So why are being sold longer drivers with MORE loft? For MOST amateurs wouldn't we be better served with shorter drivers with more loft? Seems like we're being a little duped into mixing the distance of a longer shaft with the wrong loft to go with that shaft length.



    I know this tire has been kicked before - but to hear a guy outright say that more loft AND longer inside the same driver bring with it control issues is sort of telling in my book.



    I shall now vaporize for the fun and sanity of other! lol




    I remember when draw and fade biased drivers hit the market and Phil actually carried one of each in his bag during the Masters, two drivers in the bag. I think he pulled his 3w if I remember correctly..? Don't remember if he kept them in for the entire tournament but I do remember him carrying one of each during competition. IMO Phil isn't afraid to make a little money if you get what I'm saying...lol. He's also a bit of a club ho and likes to try different stuff so who knows...




    Turn the mass

    OGA member #15

    Lord help me to be the person my dog thinks I am
  • tolmijtolmij Living in paradise Members Posts: 3,761 ✭✭
    What an interesting read this morning, such diverse topics.



    Shaft and fitting. There seems to be some competition as to which one of the Grillers is the most knowledgeable, I find myself hitting my head on the wall to try and clear the grey matter. I suppose when you do it for so long it becomes second nature. Never thought much about shafts untill my son purchased the clubs with graphite shafts for my Xmas present then I could feel and see the improvement in my shots, it has not impacted my scores to that extent but I can now have better controls about where the ball finishes.



    Unisex toilets. DW and myself volunteered in an age care facility, all staff toilets were unisex. DW refused to use them as she could not get used to the idea of seeing a male person when she used it. I only used the facility once and was sharing it with a female staff member when I walked in, walked out and never used it again, I may be old fashioned but somethings are private between people of the same ****, toilets are one of them. I think the modern I can be what **** I like is only an opportunity for perverts to get themselves off. As with everything, it will go full circle and normality will be resumed, it’s only going to take some deviant to abuse it to bring about a change.



    How about the college lads/girls. One person won a foot race a month ago as a boy, this week he identified as a girl and won a girls foot race, where is the justification for that, where is the justice for the girls that worked hard for that race to be cheated out of a win.



    Well done Fella, more and more people are now living in mixed family groups, our son asked if we wanted to purchase a house between us, the result we can afford more as the bills are shared, a larger house and we will also have some support later in life. It’s really good being an influence on youngsters, always liked working with children it’s so satisfying to see them achieve something.



    Into the studio now, painting day.
    Way down under in (not New Orleans) Australia.

    Living the dream.

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    Kindly donated by mdgboxx and worn with pride


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  • billh17billh17 just happy to play Members Posts: 2,874 ✭✭


    One fine day - experiments with graphite shafted irons will come. It tickles my curiosity too much for it not to one day become a road more traveled.



    You guys remember when ALL shafts were steel. Enter these whippy fiberglass shafts in drivers that sent it a mile out to the push side. Everyone raced right back to steel. But now graphite is in just about every driver sold while irons remain (by and large) steel from the OEM.



    It begs the question - WHY? If it's "better" for a driver why would it be "worse" for an iron? That little riddle will one day drive me to go find out why. No doubt the weight of the heads is in the equation but nowadays a shaft can be made to any imaginable weight, flex, tip size, yadda.




    Funny you mentioned this... Before I started this One Length trip, The irons I had used since about 2000 were graphite shafts. I am seriously

    considering getting a set of graphite in the one lengths ..if I decide to continue them. The graphite were as consistent as any I have played.

    They were almost exactly the same distance wise as the steel i had before. They ARE a club longer than the one lengths. They sure seem

    to have been a lot easier on my lead wrist and elbow....and the fingers in my trail hand...nothing serious..just never felt any issues the day after.

    The graphite shafts in todays irons are probably as good as steel. I know tradition is blahblahblah...but I am older,and if they help me in any

    way they are going to get looked at ! Hence the changing one length to graphite down the road.
    Certified Orginal Member#2
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  • billh17billh17 just happy to play Members Posts: 2,874 ✭✭
    To you guys and your grandkids.... Now is a lot of fun,and I hope you are able to soak up every minute. The really great time is when

    they ask you to teach them how to play, and then later you get to enjoy a beautiful early morning,or a late afternoon sun,on the course

    with them. Talking about golf....life....or sports....or whatever.. Those are the great times. You will be making memories that will

    last a lifetime . I honestly hope each of you are as lucky as I have been with my granddaughter. You will cherish it .
    Certified Orginal Member#2
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  • tolmijtolmij Living in paradise Members Posts: 3,761 ✭✭
    Bicycles. Boooooooooo.



    Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.



    No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door. They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration but quite often refuse to use them when they are there, but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.



    I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.
    Way down under in (not New Orleans) Australia.

    Living the dream.

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  • tolmijtolmij Living in paradise Members Posts: 3,761 ✭✭
    edited Jun 14, 2018 #17782

    tolmij wrote:


    Bicycles. Boooooooooo.



    Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.



    No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door. They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration but quite often refuse to use them when they are there, but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.



    I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.


    Wow, very different. And one meter isn't much huh, being just 39". Around here we have a lot of bike paths, many of which are old railroad tracks converted over and paved, so they go thru the country with nice views. In our county alone we have almost 50 miles of bike paths, These are dedicated paths, not for car traffic at all, or if they do happen to be near a street connecting one path to the next, the path is in a lane all of its own. I think riding in the Columbus area streets as SilverBullets was saying is probably more 'good luck to you' type riding.

    You can also walk our paths, but riders always pass on the left and walkers or runners know this, and riders always give a courteous "On your left" shout in advance. In all the years we've lived here no one has ever been hit.

    http://lickingparkdistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Bike-Trail-Map-2016.pdf




    How lucky civilised cyclists image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />. We have dedicated cycling paths that are usually only a painted line on the normal road, cyclists are supposed to keep to them and cars are not supposed to drive in them. Usually cyclists drive outside them or more than one abreast so they cannot remain inside of them. Usually they use the normal highways.



    Have you heard the term she will be right mate, it covers many things but usually means stuff it, no matter what everything will work out. This is the general Australian attitude, cyclists are no different.
    Way down under in (not New Orleans) Australia.

    Living the dream.

    OGA Member no #8

    Kindly donated by mdgboxx and worn with pride


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  • scomac2002scomac2002 Inside the Starters' Hut Members Posts: 5,598 ✭✭

    tolmij wrote:


    Bicycles. Boooooooooo.



    Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.



    No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door. They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration but quite often refuse to use them when they are there, but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.



    I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.


    Wow, very different. And one meter isn't much huh, being just 39". Around here we have a lot of bike paths, many of which are old railroad tracks converted over and paved, so they go thru the country with nice views. In our county alone we have almost 50 miles of bike paths, These are dedicated paths, not for car traffic at all, or if they do happen to be near a street connecting one path to the next, the path is in a lane all of its own. I think riding in the Columbus area streets as SilverBullets was saying is probably more 'good luck to you' type riding.

    You can also walk our paths, but riders always pass on the left and walkers or runners know this, and riders always give a courteous "On your left" shout in advance. In all the years we've lived here no one has ever been hit.

    http://lickingparkdi...il-Map-2016.pdf




    Our area is very similar to Sixty's as well in terms of cycling infrastructure including an expansive bike share program featuring the Sobi bike system. I haven't used it personally, but I have used the Bixi bike system in Montreal on a couple of occasions.



    I've ridden a couple of the more scenic routes on the maps that can be linked to from the following page:



    https://www.hamilton.ca/streets-transportation/biking-cyclists/cycling-routes-maps



    The waterfront trail is an easy route that follows along the Lake Ontario lakeshore and is part of a large provincial network route that goes all the way from Niagara-on-the-Lake to Oshawa. I've also done the Dundas Waterfalls route which is fairly demanding due to scaling and then descending the escarpment via older access roads versus the gentle slopes that are featured on the escarpment rail trails. There are two cycling routes that travel east-west through the city featuring segregated lanes featuring bollards to provide cyclists with a relatively safe means of getting through the city. It's a pretty good set-up with a great mix of routes for those inclined to take advantage.
    Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
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  • tolmijtolmij Living in paradise Members Posts: 3,761 ✭✭
    scomac2002 wrote:


    tolmij wrote:


    Bicycles. Boooooooooo.



    Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.



    No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door. They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration but quite often refuse to use them when they are there, but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.



    I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.


    Wow, very different. And one meter isn't much huh, being just 39". Around here we have a lot of bike paths, many of which are old railroad tracks converted over and paved, so they go thru the country with nice views. In our county alone we have almost 50 miles of bike paths, These are dedicated paths, not for car traffic at all, or if they do happen to be near a street connecting one path to the next, the path is in a lane all of its own. I think riding in the Columbus area streets as SilverBullets was saying is probably more 'good luck to you' type riding.

    You can also walk our paths, but riders always pass on the left and walkers or runners know this, and riders always give a courteous "On your left" shout in advance. In all the years we've lived here no one has ever been hit.

    [url="http://lickingparkdistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Bike-Trail-Map-2016.pdf"]http://lickingparkdi...il-Map-2016.pdf[/url]




    Our area is very similar to Sixty's as well in terms of cycling infrastructure including an expansive bike share program featuring the Sobi bike system. I haven't used it personally, but I have used the Bixi bike system in Montreal on a couple of occasions.



    I've ridden a couple of the more scenic routes on the maps that can be linked to from the following page:



    [url="https://www.hamilton.ca/streets-transportation/biking-cyclists/cycling-routes-maps"]https://www.hamilton.ca/streets-transportation/biking-cyclists/cycling-routes-maps[/url]



    The waterfront trail is an easy route that follows along the Lake Ontario lakeshore and is part of a large provincial network route that goes all the way from Niagara-on-the-Lake to Oshawa. I've also done the Dundas Waterfalls route which is fairly demanding due to scaling and then descending the escarpment via older access roads versus the gentle slopes that are featured on the escarpment rail trails. There are two cycling routes that travel east-west through the city featuring segregated lanes featuring bollards to provide cyclists with a relatively safe means of getting through the city. It's a pretty good set-up with a great mix of routes for those inclined to take advantage.




    From what you are both saying, it appears cycling is more a method of relaxation, in Australia it is a method of transport, to and from work.
    Way down under in (not New Orleans) Australia.

    Living the dream.

    OGA Member no #8

    Kindly donated by mdgboxx and worn with pride


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  • scomac2002scomac2002 Inside the Starters' Hut Members Posts: 5,598 ✭✭
    Oh, it's definitely a method of transportation for the urban dweller who doesn't own or want to own a car. I know several folks that fall into this category particularly in Toronto and they're not all millennials either. The cycling culture has been growing in this country for at least a decade or more, particularly from a transport perspective. All of our city buses are equipped with bike carriers so that you can mutli mode your transportation options. I've frequently seen bikes being brought on the intercity Go Trains so that once at your destination you've got a method to get around. If anything, cycling for transport is the growth area.
    Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
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  • billh17billh17 just happy to play Members Posts: 2,874 ✭✭
    tolmij wrote:


    Bicycles. Boooooooooo.



    Let me explain. As a youngster I went everywhere on my bike, heavy traffic no problems as you took care, obeyed the road rules and had no major accidents and very few minor ones.



    No Idea what America is like but in Australian cyclists want the whole road system to revolve around them, many of them are good, do the right thing, but so many do not care about anyone else. A recent road rule, if you pass a clylist you have to be 1meter away from him, on very narrow roads this is almost impossible, they ride two, three, and sometimes four abreast on main roads and you still have to give the outside rider 1meter clearance. The other side of this, if a cyclist overtakes a car they do not need to be 1meter away, so if an accident happens which is quite often as they run into car doors being opened, the car driver is then at fault for not being carefully opening his door. They want a cycle path along every road, special consideration but quite often refuse to use them when they are there, but are unwilling to contribute towards the cost which for what they want would cost billions of dollars, at the same time road rules do not apply to them, it’s regular to see them go over a pedestrian crossing that is in use, run red lights, the wrong way down one way streets.



    I have no problem with cyclists if they obey the rules of the road, act in a considerate way, and contribute towards the financial burden there demands cause, unfortunately, this does not happen in Australia.


    it is heading down the same path here in rural southern Ohio..dont know about the bigger cities,but in the country,the residents are

    constantly in danger of the city people bringing their bikes to the country and riding like you described on country roads.. I have came to

    the top of a hill...doing the speed limit(55),and found a bunch of cyclists ...stopped in the middle of the lane...talking.....They were from the

    city...because NO country man/woman would wear spandex riding outfits !
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    To Heck with the USGA
  • billh17billh17 just happy to play Members Posts: 2,874 ✭✭
    Down here also,we have the Amish..with their horse pulled buggies...I see young kids,maybe 12/14 age on the roads,driving the buggy.

    Have heard of several accidents...none really fatal,thank goodness. Every one has been either a young new driver of the car,or a city

    person on the two lane road and wasn't aware that the SLOW buggies use the same lane ! Everyone here is used to them and know to be careful

    on two lane roads.
    Certified Orginal Member#2
    Outlaw Golf Association
    To Heck with the USGA
  • billh17billh17 just happy to play Members Posts: 2,874 ✭✭
    watching the Open before I go out for 9 this afternoon...the USGA has a new commercial running ,to help the problem

    of the length of time it takes to play a round.

    Play ready golf.....NO

    Marshalls.............NO

    increased tee interval.....NO

    pick up after triple bogey....NO

    their solution is ....When you dont have the time for a round....PLAY 9.....

    This helps the ones who are now playing 9... they are in no hurry at all..because they get done in 2 3/4 instead of 5 .

    The ones who are playing 18 are further screwed...more playing 9 so now 18 takes 5 1/2

    And in a few years we will start with the complaints of how long it takes to play 9.

    Another great solution by the USGA which only bothers the lowly non-pros....

    And we all know when this starts kicking in,you will have absolutely no more thinking you leave the 9th and go tee off on 10...nonono...

    management has slammed a bunch of "play niners" off in front of you.....welcome to the future...lol
    Certified Orginal Member#2
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    To Heck with the USGA
  • ReasonabilityReasonability Mirror work is a good idea. Members Posts: 8,530 ✭✭
    Out of radio silence. Sometimes (for me) the better part of valor is listening to and enjoying you gents ahead of saying anything. I'm sure all know here know and understand that one.



    Biking is a tougher subject for me. As said, these eyes have seen 100% avoidable things.



    I want to see folks who can't drive a car like our bud Sixty have the option to bike. I want to see folks who find some brand of physical therapy have an outlet even though in my eyes there would seem to be (what do I know) other good options. I want to see original design and intent when roads were built be kept in mind.



    When they "re-purpose" a road for a walk-a-thin, or cross-country bike event, or a run.... that's different in my mind. The road was in effect dedicated to (re-purposed) that event for that day and it's time for the cars and trucks to find other roads, for the safety of all concerned. FINE!



    There's a city not far from here that appointed to town counsel - a "Bike Czar". I thought that was a perfect title for it. Someone was by-God going to ram it down the throats of anyone who disagreed that this movement is here and everyone had better get used to it. They could have called the job "Bike ****" and it would have engendered the same effect in my mind.



    All of this stuff to my pea brain is about common sense. Which for whatever reason isn't common. Mom and Dad taught me to not play in traffic - period - the end. But we rode bikes as kids in the street. We were careful about which streets, and when we did so. We rode on the sidewalk or even walked the bike through more dangerous areas. We didn't need a "Czar'. We just needed common sense. What a concept!



    I suppose the only thing beyond safety and compassion for folks who actually might NEED to ride a bike out there the drives my take on this stuff is the angst I feel from things like a "Czar" jamming it down my throat... that and the really WEAK arguments that it's the motorist's fault when something happens. I've seen moms and dads out there not only endangering themselves, but their own babies are strapped to their back or pulled in some sort of little bike trailer behind.



    Common sense.



    Can we have a "Golf Czar" to allow us to play nine holes on the interstate? All we need to do is say, "Folks need to get used to it. We're here and we here to stay - it's the motorists fault when one of us (or the kid strapped to our back) gets killed.



    Oh well. Smoke'm if you got'm. Ride the bike when and wherever you want. I've got about as much chance of getting it to go precisely to my liking as I do influencing the mega-industry known as rap. It is what it is. White flag waved.
    A cynic sees the cost of everything
    and the value of nothing.
  • scomac2002scomac2002 Inside the Starters' Hut Members Posts: 5,598 ✭✭
    edited Jun 14, 2018 #17790
    billh17 wrote:


    watching the Open before I go out for 9 this afternoon...the USGA has a new commercial running ,to help the problem

    of the length of time it takes to play a round.

    Play ready golf.....NO

    Marshalls.............NO

    increased tee interval.....NO

    pick up after triple bogey....NO

    their solution is ....When you dont have the time for a round....PLAY 9.....

    This helps the ones who are now playing 9... they are in no hurry at all..because they get done in 2 3/4 instead of 5 .

    The ones who are playing 18 are further screwed...more playing 9 so now 18 takes 5 1/2

    And in a few years we will start with the complaints of how long it takes to play 9.

    Another great solution by the USGA which only bothers the lowly non-pros....

    And we all know when this starts kicking in,you will have absolutely no more thinking you leave the 9th and go tee off on 10...nonono...

    management has slammed a bunch of "play niners" off in front of you.....welcome to the future...lol




    Well then I guess we're all screwed because as the walking nine hole player I'm being viewed as a problem. I don't see it that way but there's always some mouth piece out on the course that's ready to say their piece as they zoom up to the tee box in their cart in a big hurry to go nowhere fast! as I said in a previous post; string enough of these types of experiences together and I'll cease to be a perceived problem because I'll just pack up my old kit bag and look for something else to do rather than engage in a weekly confrontation with some tool!



    As for your list of things that will help pace of play:



    Ready golf helps. Marshaling is OK too, but after you've left there's no guarantee that the group will speed up. In fact, they're more likely to just keep doing what they were doing.



    Increase the interval between tee times -- NOT HAPPENING! No operator is going to deliberately cut their revenue if they want to stay in business.



    Pick up after a triple? Absolutely! But this comes back to a separate issue; playing the right tees and playing the course that suits one's abilities so that you aren't forced to pick up more than the rare occasion. Good luck with that as there's too much ego at play. Everybody overestimates how far they hit it so you can be damned sure they overestimate their ability to handle a tough track.



    Getting people conditioned to play nine holes does make sense especially if they do it walking. Saves money and they get a bit of exercise out of the outing. Sadly, I've run across too many guys that view nine holes and walking as a joke and they'd rather not play at all than be reduced to that! Looks to me like we're always going to be at an impasse... image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' />
    Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
    _____________________________________

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  • scomac2002scomac2002 Inside the Starters' Hut Members Posts: 5,598 ✭✭


    Out of radio silence. Sometimes (for me) the better part of valor is listening to and enjoying you gents ahead of saying anything. I'm sure all know here know and understand that one.



    Biking is a tougher subject for me. As said, these eyes have seen 100% avoidable things.



    I want to see folks who can't drive a car like our bud Sixty have the option to bike. I want to see folks who find some brand of physical therapy have an outlet even though in my eyes there would seem to be (what do I know) other good options. I want to see original design and intent when roads were built be kept in mind.



    When they "re-purpose" a road for a walk-a-thin, or cross-country bike event, or a run.... that's different in my mind. The road was in effect dedicated to (re-purposed) that event for that day and it's time for the cars and trucks to find other roads, for the safety of all concerned. FINE!



    There's a city not far from here that appointed to town counsel - a "Bike Czar". I thought that was a perfect title for it. Someone was by-God going to ram it down the throats of anyone who disagreed that this movement is here and everyone had better get used to it. They could have called the job "Bike ****" and it would have engendered the same effect in my mind.



    All of this stuff to my pea brain is about common sense. Which for whatever reason isn't common. Mom and Dad taught me to not play in traffic - period - the end. But we rode bikes as kids in the street. We were careful about which streets, and when we did so. We rode on the sidewalk or even walked the bike through more dangerous areas. We didn't need a "Czar'. We just needed common sense. What a concept!



    I suppose the only thing beyond safety and compassion for folks who actually might NEED to ride a bike out there the drives my take on this stuff is the angst I feel from things like a "Czar" jamming it down my throat... that and the really WEAK arguments that it's the motorist's fault when something happens. I've seen moms and dads out there not only endangering themselves, but their own babies are strapped to their back or pulled in some sort of little bike trailer behind.



    Common sense.



    Can we have a "Golf Czar" to allow us to play nine holes on the interstate? All we need to do is say, "Folks need to get used to it. We're here and we here to stay - it's the motorists fault when one of us (or the kid strapped to our back) gets killed.



    Oh well. Smoke'm if you got'm. Ride the bike when and wherever you want. I've got about as much chance of getting it to go precisely to my liking as I do influencing the mega-industry known as rap. It is what it is. White flag waved.




    I can tell that you haven't been to Holland. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    In the Netherlands cyclists have the primary right of way. Next comes pedestrians and lastly comes the lowly car driver. Now you must keep in mind that the Netherlands has spectacular cycling infrastructure because it is the primary means of transportation in that country -- full stop! Totally segregated lanes, their own rules of the road that are strictly followed and enforced. Purpose built bikes for transport and utility. You don't see a bunch of spandex clad middle aged men on overpriced carbon fibre racing bikes pretending to be Lance Armstrong. If you want to get around in Amsterdam, cycling is the means of choice. It's much quicker than by car!



    What I've described is actually the model that many major North American cities are attempting to aspire to. A safe way to incorporate cycling for transportation into the greater transportation infrastructure. It works for me even though it scares the beejeezus out of others who think I'd be just as well served in a gym setting riding some stationary bike to some sort of preset routine on a video monitor. That maybe OK in the winter, but when you've got weather and the great outdoors, why coop yourself up and have to fork out a monthly fee for the privilege? What this whole argument comes down to I think is that you get a segment of the population that don't want to have to pay for something they view as a frill that they aren't going to use. With that in mind, I think that it is reasonable that cyclists be expected to contribute financially through licencing or some other means. One thing is for certain that this is a contentious issue no matter where you are as there's an expense incurred to accommodate bikes within our roadways.
    Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
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