Best Driver of 2019 | Full Article _HERE_ | Discussion Thread _HERE_

For those that have applied the GG pivot

17172737476
77

Comments

  • DoubletripledoubleDoubletripledouble  14Members Posts: 14
    Joined:  #2252

    So I’ve been using this pivot for a few months and I’ve seen an increase in distance but I’ve been unable to get on plane. I’ve finally realized that as I squat my arms drop straight down and I get under plane. Thoughts?

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • QManyQMany #TheWRX  9137ClubWRX Posts: 9,137
    Joined:  #2253

    @Doubletripledouble said:
    So I’ve been using this pivot for a few months and I’ve seen an increase in distance but I’ve been unable to get on plane. I’ve finally realized that as I squat my arms drop straight down and I get under plane. Thoughts?

    Have you tried his drill where you put an alignment stick on your arms at the top and try to keep it up there as long as possible in the downswing?

    Posted:
    Currently in #TheWRX...

    Taylormade M3 460 (9.5°) Tensei CK Pro Orange 70TX
    Taylormade SLDR Mini (14°) Matrix White Tie 70X
    Callaway XR Pro (20°) Diamana White 90X
    Callaway Apex Pro (4i-PW) DG X100 TI
    Ping Glide 2.0 (50° & 54°) DG S400 TI
    Artisan MT Grind (58°) DG S400
    Odyssey O Works R-Line
    Taylormade TP5X


    QMany's Swing/Sticks / Instagram
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3789Members Posts: 3,789
    Joined:  #2254

    A little update on my progress. I originally went to see GG in April 2018. From there I had 3 online lessons with him. Then I saw him for a 2nd time, in person, this past May.

    After seeing GG in 2018, my game was wildly inconsistent. I would hit it great for a month, then horrible for a month. Then I would hit it well for a couple of months, then terrible for another month. The pattern was developing to the point where as time would go by, I would hit it well for longer stretches of time and then go into a slump. But as time went along, the slumps were not so bad.

    After my lesson with him in May, I was hitting the ball well. Had a small slump, but nothing crazy. Big thing that helped me was going to see a chiropractor. I have had back and neck pain for the past 20 years. Stopped seeing a chiropractor for the past 8 years. Pain was too much and I started to go back to one and it’s been incredible how much better I feel. I am no longer swinging while worrying about my elbow or shoulder hurting during the swing.

    Anyway, after the lesson I felt GG really uncovered some long-standing issues with my swing. Biggies where me getting out of my backswing tilts too quickly in the downswing and losing flexion of my left knee too early in the downswing. They pretty much go hand-in-hand. Now I can use the ground better and it has moved the low point forward more to help me with my irons (typically, my driving has been really good the past 5 years).

    One of the other issues was with my backswing. I would struggle with getting enough turn and using my femurs to do so. I found what really works for me is the sharpie drill (stick a sharpie in your back right pocket. If you turn your pelvis enough the sharpie will move forward towards the target).

    I think I’m at the point where I’m starting to accomplish all of those things consistently. The big thing to work on that I’m not quite getting is the pivot action and femur and feet movement from p5 thru p8. I get a little late with the femur action. I think I have some ideas as to what’s going on.

    When I’m not striking it well, it’s still well struck, but it’s just a huge draw and the misses are pushes (again, well struck) that don’t draw.

    RH

    Posted:
  • KevinnzKevinnz  306Members Posts: 306
    Joined:  #2255

    Spent more than a week to get through page35 to 76, great info, hat off to a few people that wrote insightful comments and experiences.
    For me the no throw and keeping upper body centered (P5-p6) and delayed (p4-p5) really made a huge difference to my swing.
    I used to follow kelvin but his matching move, tailbone facing the target and moving away etc were difficult to practise, whereas GG (i think GG is actually a student of Kelvins) makes the milestones of the downswing so easy to copy.

    Posted:
  • bw5000bw5000  54Members, ClubWRX Posts: 54
    Joined:  #2256

    Any set of thoughts or theory that gets you to a 66 are worth it!

    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3789Members Posts: 3,789
    Joined:  #2257

    GG was never a student of Kelvin's, but he did read and watch some of his stuff and had numerous students of Kelvin's work with him, so he learned and took what he felt was appropriate. The same with S&T, MORAD, etc.

    What most people don't realize is that there were a lot of changes that Kelvin made his last year before he had his stroke. The ends were pretty much the same, but the means to the end changed a bit. He started studying othropedics as well as his research into anatomy and discovered some new things and some easier ways to do things. He then started working with Jeff Haas (who is a brilliant guy with superb golf swing knowledge) and somewhere along the line Denny Lucas started working with them. Unfortunately, the stroke occurred the week before the Web site was planned to open. But there was a lot of stuff that Kelvin had that changed prior to that. And the end result is a guy like Viktor Hovland who was arguably the best ballstriker on Tour this past season.

    As far as my progress, it's been going pretty well. I haven't taken an online lesson from GG since my in-person lesson in May. I haven't even been videotaping my swing that much as I started to figure some new things out. In particular, rotating my lead foot counterclockwise in the downswing and getting that torque as such where the pressure goes to the outer edge of my left foot.

    By simply connecting the dots, I now have a better sense of how to pivot in the backswing. If you don't turn enough so the pressure is on the instep of the lead foot at p4, you really can't rotate that lead foot counterclockwise as much as you need to.

    The last part I've found was simply done by doing a drill where I stick the butt of the club on a door jam (so I cannot physically pull the club down) and then try to rotate the lead foot counterclockwise with getting pressure on the outer edge of the lead foot.

    What I found by doing this drill is the only way to rotate the lead foot enough to get the pressure on the outer edge of the lead foot is to 'sit down' with the left hip/butt cheek. I call it 'collapsing my left side.' When I stall and get too much axis tilt on the downswing it's as if my right side 'collapses.'

    A lot of teachers today discuss getting the right knee (trail knee) into flexion in the downswing and I think they are correct. But for me, this is a 'feel is not real' situation so by feeling I don't collapse my right side, while 'collapsing the left side' keeps my tilts in place while I rotate.

    The end results have been really good. I got up to 170 mph ball speed with my driver (at 162 before). I really cranked that one, but usually I can get it at consistently 166-167 mph and I still hit up about +3 to +4 and with my driver fitting, I'm getting really good numbers of 13* launch, 2,100 rpm's and the ball is going a long way.

    The low point control is much better and so is the face control as I hit less pull draws and the ones I hit are less offline. Now it's about getting reps in and being able to improve the consistency of my performance.

    RH

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • proguyproguy  903Members Posts: 903
    Joined:  #2258

    @RichieHunt said:
    A little update on my progress. I originally went to see GG in April 2018. From there I had 3 online lessons with him. Then I saw him for a 2nd time, in person, this past May.

    After seeing GG in 2018, my game was wildly inconsistent. I would hit it great for a month, then horrible for a month. Then I would hit it well for a couple of months, then terrible for another month. The pattern was developing to the point where as time would go by, I would hit it well for longer stretches of time and then go into a slump. But as time went along, the slumps were not so bad.

    After my lesson with him in May, I was hitting the ball well. Had a small slump, but nothing crazy. Big thing that helped me was going to see a chiropractor. I have had back and neck pain for the past 20 years. Stopped seeing a chiropractor for the past 8 years. Pain was too much and I started to go back to one and it’s been incredible how much better I feel. I am no longer swinging while worrying about my elbow or shoulder hurting during the swing.

    Anyway, after the lesson I felt GG really uncovered some long-standing issues with my swing. Biggies where me getting out of my backswing tilts too quickly in the downswing and losing flexion of my left knee too early in the downswing. They pretty much go hand-in-hand. Now I can use the ground better and it has moved the low point forward more to help me with my irons (typically, my driving has been really good the past 5 years).

    One of the other issues was with my backswing. I would struggle with getting enough turn and using my femurs to do so. I found what really works for me is the sharpie drill (stick a sharpie in your back right pocket. If you turn your pelvis enough the sharpie will move forward towards the target).

    I think I’m at the point where I’m starting to accomplish all of those things consistently. The big thing to work on that I’m not quite getting is the pivot action and femur and feet movement from p5 thru p8. I get a little late with the femur action. I think I have some ideas as to what’s going on.

    When I’m not striking it well, it’s still well struck, but it’s just a huge draw and the misses are pushes (again, well struck) that don’t draw.

    RH

    Your pelvis issue is the same thing with me. When I get it right it feels almost automatic. I think it is from years of being told to increase the xfactor stuff.

    Posted:
    F9 9 degree Diamana white.  70G
    Epic SZ 15 degree Diamana white 70G
    M3 19 Hyrbrid Diamana white 90G
    R11 7 wood Fuji something old school
    4-pw J40 CB Modus 130 S
    52,56,60 DD scratch 8810
    Pointy looking thing. 
    Srixon Z star
  • KevinnzKevinnz  306Members Posts: 306
    Joined:  #2259

    Thanks for the Kelvin part Richie, feel so sorry for Kelvin. He is such a talent to have the swing figured out. GG teaches quite some of Kelvins methodology.
    One thing that may be you could explain a bit more is about Kelvins spine/pelvis is the engine. He literally didnt think the transition starts from the feet but the pelvis. I tried to initiate the DS with lead side pelvic APT with GG's pivot but the APT seems to delay the lead knee external rotation. The APT leads to more of a Rory transition instead of the GG squat. I know you are very GG pivot now but have you tried Kelvins APT with GGs shallowing?

    @RichieHunt said:
    GG was never a student of Kelvin's, but he did read and watch some of his stuff and had numerous students of Kelvin's work with him, so he learned and took what he felt was appropriate. The same with S&T, MORAD, etc.

    What most people don't realize is that there were a lot of changes that Kelvin made his last year before he had his stroke. The ends were pretty much the same, but the means to the end changed a bit. He started studying othropedics as well as his research into anatomy and discovered some new things and some easier ways to do things. He then started working with Jeff Haas (who is a brilliant guy with superb golf swing knowledge) and somewhere along the line Denny Lucas started working with them. Unfortunately, the stroke occurred the week before the Web site was planned to open. But there was a lot of stuff that Kelvin had that changed prior to that. And the end result is a guy like Viktor Hovland who was arguably the best ballstriker on Tour this past season.

    As far as my progress, it's been going pretty well. I haven't taken an online lesson from GG since my in-person lesson in May. I haven't even been videotaping my swing that much as I started to figure some new things out. In particular, rotating my lead foot counterclockwise in the downswing and getting that torque as such where the pressure goes to the outer edge of my left foot.

    By simply connecting the dots, I now have a better sense of how to pivot in the backswing. If you don't turn enough so the pressure is on the instep of the lead foot at p4, you really can't rotate that lead foot counterclockwise as much as you need to.

    The last part I've found was simply done by doing a drill where I stick the butt of the club on a door jam (so I cannot physically pull the club down) and then try to rotate the lead foot counterclockwise with getting pressure on the outer edge of the lead foot.

    What I found by doing this drill is the only way to rotate the lead foot enough to get the pressure on the outer edge of the lead foot is to 'sit down' with the left hip/butt cheek. I call it 'collapsing my left side.' When I stall and get too much axis tilt on the downswing it's as if my right side 'collapses.'

    A lot of teachers today discuss getting the right knee (trail knee) into flexion in the downswing and I think they are correct. But for me, this is a 'feel is not real' situation so by feeling I don't collapse my right side, while 'collapsing the left side' keeps my tilts in place while I rotate.

    The end results have been really good. I got up to 170 mph ball speed with my driver (at 162 before). I really cranked that one, but usually I can get it at consistently 166-167 mph and I still hit up about +3 to +4 and with my driver fitting, I'm getting really good numbers of 13* launch, 2,100 rpm's and the ball is going a long way.

    The low point control is much better and so is the face control as I hit less pull draws and the ones I hit are less offline. Now it's about getting reps in and being able to improve the consistency of my performance.

    RH

    Posted:
  • KevinnzKevinnz  306Members Posts: 306
    Joined:  #2260

    As for the lead foot rolling on the outer edge, my coach jst gets me to literally roll and have pressure on the outer n heel of the lead foot and jst push up from there, and it really works (so i dont need to think about counterclockwise rotation)

    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3789Members Posts: 3,789
    Joined:  #2261

    Here's a latest swing of mine:

    It's been one of those deals where I'll make progress with my backswing and see some good results and then when those results stop coming, I'll work on something with my transition, rinse and repeat. And then I start to discover new things when I go back and focus on say the backswing.

    I feel very good about the backswing now. I'm getting my hands deep enough at p4 and it more easily allows me to rotate in transition and shallow out the shaft. I've been working a lot on rotating while keeping my tilts. I've found the importance of keeping the left knee in flexion because if I straighten the left knee too much, too soon....I lose my tilts and start pulling down the shaft and lose any semblance of a pivot.

    A big focus for me that has worked lately is to focus on my belt buckle and not let the belt buck move back (away from the target) and down. I really focus on the front left half of my belt and rotate by left foot counter clockwise while sustaining my hip slant. I figure the left hip should reach its lowest point when the hips are square to the target, then it should move back (away from target) and up.

    From there, I'm really working on getting the right femur movement as I go thru impact the way GG wants it. I think this is probably the 2nd biggest issue with my swing...getting the right leg to move in the downswing. I tend to let the right leg hang back and thus my knees, femurs and pelvis cannot rotate. It also causes too much secondary axis tilt and causes low point and face control issues. When I get it 'right', it's amazing how much more zip the ball has off the face and how straight I can hit it. It's one of those beautiful feelings where you feel like you took a pivot that would result in a cut and instead you hit a flush baby draw.

    I do notice that my head movement in the swing is probably the best it's been since college. Much less tilting the neck downward in the downswing and doing a weird early extension move.

    I have gotten my ballspeed up to 172 mph max with the driver. But normally it's around 165-168 mph, with 13* launch and 2,200 spin. Those are good numbers that I fairly pleased with. Just have to do it more consistently.

    RH

    Posted:
  • ryan983ryan983  727Members Posts: 727
    Joined:  #2262

    That’s a lot to think about. I’d be paralyzed trying to accomplish all that 😂

    @RichieHunt said:
    Here's a latest swing of mine:

    It's been one of those deals where I'll make progress with my backswing and see some good results and then when those results stop coming, I'll work on something with my transition, rinse and repeat. And then I start to discover new things when I go back and focus on say the backswing.

    I feel very good about the backswing now. I'm getting my hands deep enough at p4 and it more easily allows me to rotate in transition and shallow out the shaft. I've been working a lot on rotating while keeping my tilts. I've found the importance of keeping the left knee in flexion because if I straighten the left knee too much, too soon....I lose my tilts and start pulling down the shaft and lose any semblance of a pivot.

    A big focus for me that has worked lately is to focus on my belt buckle and not let the belt buck move back (away from the target) and down. I really focus on the front left half of my belt and rotate by left foot counter clockwise while sustaining my hip slant. I figure the left hip should reach its lowest point when the hips are square to the target, then it should move back (away from target) and up.

    From there, I'm really working on getting the right femur movement as I go thru impact the way GG wants it. I think this is probably the 2nd biggest issue with my swing...getting the right leg to move in the downswing. I tend to let the right leg hang back and thus my knees, femurs and pelvis cannot rotate. It also causes too much secondary axis tilt and causes low point and face control issues. When I get it 'right', it's amazing how much more zip the ball has off the face and how straight I can hit it. It's one of those beautiful feelings where you feel like you took a pivot that would result in a cut and instead you hit a flush baby draw.

    I do notice that my head movement in the swing is probably the best it's been since college. Much less tilting the neck downward in the downswing and doing a weird early extension move.

    I have gotten my ballspeed up to 172 mph max with the driver. But normally it's around 165-168 mph, with 13* launch and 2,200 spin. Those are good numbers that I fairly pleased with. Just have to do it more consistently.

    RH

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • TMoakley1547TMoakley1547  154Members Posts: 154
    Joined:  #2263

    I feel like ive found the GG downswing pivot without even realizing it. I have been working on adding flex to my lead knee in transition and letting it turn towards target, keeping my right knee where it is (not allowing it to move laterally or turn toward target), and letting my hands drop to my right thigh when my lead knee turns toward target. From there, I add all the pressure i can to my left (lead) heel, and rotate everything around it. My ballstriking has improved dramatically, and I feel so much more powerful.

    I hope I made some sense here. Im going to have to study GG's instruction.

    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3789Members Posts: 3,789
    Joined:  #2264

    @ryan983 said:
    That’s a lot to think about. I’d be paralyzed trying to accomplish all that 😂

    I actually don't thing about that stuff when I'm on the range hitting balls. It's more of my analysis of what's going on when things are going wrong. Particularly when I can sense that I'm nowhere close to making the move or if I see it on video. Then I relay it in this thread to help others or for them to possibly help me.

    Right now, I pretty much go thru the checklist in warmup without a ball. I do that a few times and then 'muscle memory' starts to pick up most of it naturally. From there, my main thoughts are just focusing on the left hip and then the right femur movement thru impact.

    From my experience, if my swing thoughts involve the backswing...I'm probably not going to play very well. It's sort of a necessary evil at times, but my hopes are not high if my swing thoughts are in the backswing. If they are in the downswing only, then I feel good about my chances. And the best is when there are no swing thoughts.

    RH

    Posted:
  • ryan983ryan983  727Members Posts: 727
    Joined:  #2265

    Glad it works for you. From the outside looking in, the GG method seems pretty complex. I can’t imagine trying to piece something like this together on my own. Maybe the membership site takes care of it all?

    I love the idea of being your own coach. I just find it difficult to believe that an Am is going to be able to diagnose what their proper matchup should be, apply the right change and be then execute it. If they can....they are much more talented than I am! But I’ve been called a knucklehead once or twice 🤪

    @RichieHunt said:

    @ryan983 said:
    That’s a lot to think about. I’d be paralyzed trying to accomplish all that 😂

    I actually don't thing about that stuff when I'm on the range hitting balls. It's more of my analysis of what's going on when things are going wrong. Particularly when I can sense that I'm nowhere close to making the move or if I see it on video. Then I relay it in this thread to help others or for them to possibly help me.

    Right now, I pretty much go thru the checklist in warmup without a ball. I do that a few times and then 'muscle memory' starts to pick up most of it naturally. From there, my main thoughts are just focusing on the left hip and then the right femur movement thru impact.

    From my experience, if my swing thoughts involve the backswing...I'm probably not going to play very well. It's sort of a necessary evil at times, but my hopes are not high if my swing thoughts are in the backswing. If they are in the downswing only, then I feel good about my chances. And the best is when there are no swing thoughts.

    RH

    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3789Members Posts: 3,789
    Joined:  #2266

    @ryan983 said:
    Glad it works for you. From the outside looking in, the GG method seems pretty complex. I can’t imagine trying to piece something like this together on my own. Maybe the membership site takes care of it all?

    I love the idea of being your own coach. I just find it difficult to believe that an Am is going to be able to diagnose what their proper matchup should be, apply the right change and be then execute it. If they can....they are much more talented than I am! But I’ve been called a knucklehead once or twice 🤪

    I do believe it's best to see GG in person or one of his instructors like Jake Gilmer in person at least once. I've had 2 in person lessons with GG and learned some valuable things that I could never quite understand on my own.

    I think his backswing stuff is the best and easiest stuff I've ever seen. I've had more difficulty learning the correct posture than I have the actual backswing. Conceptually his downswing stuff is easy to understand, but you're bound to have moves that you do that prevent you from doing the downswing correctly and they need to be properly diagnosed.

    GG showed me the downswing action and it's easy to see what I do differently. From there, I just had to keep working on the drills he prescribed and I could figure it out on my own.

    I think golfers that stick with it and use the drills he prescribes can figure it out better than they would imagine, but they'll need a lesson to get them thru the stumbling blocks.

    RH

    Posted:
  • caseFSUcaseFSU  220Members Posts: 220
    Joined:  #2267

    @RichieHunt said:

    @ryan983 said:
    Glad it works for you. From the outside looking in, the GG method seems pretty complex. I can’t imagine trying to piece something like this together on my own. Maybe the membership site takes care of it all?

    I love the idea of being your own coach. I just find it difficult to believe that an Am is going to be able to diagnose what their proper matchup should be, apply the right change and be then execute it. If they can....they are much more talented than I am! But I’ve been called a knucklehead once or twice 🤪

    I do believe it's best to see GG in person or one of his instructors like Jake Gilmer in person at least once. I've had 2 in person lessons with GG and learned some valuable things that I could never quite understand on my own.

    I think his backswing stuff is the best and easiest stuff I've ever seen. I've had more difficulty learning the correct posture than I have the actual backswing. Conceptually his downswing stuff is easy to understand, but you're bound to have moves that you do that prevent you from doing the downswing correctly and they need to be properly diagnosed.

    GG showed me the downswing action and it's easy to see what I do differently. From there, I just had to keep working on the drills he prescribed and I could figure it out on my own.

    I think golfers that stick with it and use the drills he prescribes can figure it out better than they would imagine, but they'll need a lesson to get them thru the stumbling blocks.

    RH

    Can you briefly describe your right femur moves you are talking about? TIA

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • LeftDaddyLeftDaddy  804Members Posts: 804
    Joined:  #2268

    Do any of you think there are any downsides to GGs swing guidance? The main reason I ask is that I’ve been fooling around with it over the past few months and it clicked for me in a recent range session. The only reason I stuck with it to get to this point is that I’ve been working on fixing two things for a long time, and his advice seems to help. Plus, I have a couple of tendencies that my current instructor is trying to get me to fix, but GG goes so far as to recommend them.

    Here they are:

    My tendencies: I tend to let my trail elbow get disconnected and flare at the top. I’ve tried pinning it to my body but have never really found a cure. Second, if I don’t focus on stopping it, I tend to turn in place and / or even reverse pivot a little. I’ve mostly fixed it, but it requires some unnatural moves on my part. But all that said, GG basically recommends both.

    My faults that I’m working to fix: first, my setup/stance seems to be too forward (weight in my toes). I started shanking recently and that was the cause. Second, no matter how hard I’ve tried, I can’t rotate my hips prior to impact. At impact, my hips are back where they were at address.

    The GG method fixes both of these for me, by having me stand a little more in my heels, and the pivot forces me to turn my hips more before impact.

    So, before I decide to try to change my swing and go all in on GG, I want to make sure I’m not going to regret some part of it later.

    I’ll give an example. My current coach is going to hate my GG stance, and he’s going to hate the near reverse pivot. So if I go all in GG, I’m basically saying “bye bye” to my old instructor, or at the very least I might not be able to have him help me fix any future issues that pop up.

    Any other examples of things I might regret going all GG?

    Posted:
    Callaway 815 BBA DBD, Aldila Rogue Stiff
    Callaway X2 Hot 3 Deep, 14.5, Aldila Tour Green stiff
    Callaway Apex MB UT 2 iron, Project X PXI 6.0
    Callaway 2013 X-forged (3-5), Project X PXI 6.0
    Callaway Apex MB (6-PW), KBS Tour V stiff
    Vokey SM5 54, Callaway Mack Daddy 2 Tour Grind Chrome 58, both with KBS Tour
    Bettinardi BB1
  • MPStratMPStrat  1026Members Posts: 1,026
    Joined:  #2269

    Overall GG is as good as it gets and knows the golf swing as much or more than anyone out there. He has a few preferences that I don’t personally care for.. or maybe it would be better to say that I’ve seen a lot of people trying to teach or execute the GG move and they are very stacked at the top with driver and in a ton of upper spine extension. That isn’t very common among tour players or even long drive competitors. The other thing I’ve seen is the over exaggeration of the legwork. It’s a great move if you need it, but great players aren’t leading out a ton with the legs. The guys who use the pivot from the top of the swing are using the core or oblique sling to start and the legs are generally more reactionary. GG is one of the very best at what he does and I think the bigger issue is trying to learn the swing on the internet or online lessons. Almost impossible unless you are extremely dedicated and patient.

    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3789Members Posts: 3,789
    Joined:  #2270

    I tend to wonder if shallowing out the shaft so much may be worse on wedges and short irons, although Trevino was very shallow and one of the greatest wedge players off all time. It's just a thought that I've pondered. But in reality, even if I'm correct I'd much rather hit it well with the driver and longer irons than hit it inferior with the driver and long irons, but hit it superior with the shorter irons. All of the data points to that.

    I also think there are people that can pull the handle down and still shallow out. Somebody like Gary Woodland may have trouble with 'keeping the arms up.' But I tend to find the golfers that can effectively shallow and pull the handle down to be far and few between.

    I've heard of some people having trouble with a hook and a block. But, I'm guessing they are not fully there yet with what GG teaches. They've basically figured out how to shallow the club, but they haven't quite figure out the pivot and the path goes too far out to the right.

    I'm certain that everything he says is not 1000% scientifically accurate and there's probably some things that there are easier ways to accomplish it. But in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't really matter if you have a coach that teaches it so students learn it and hit the ball great.

    RH

    Posted:
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5504Members Posts: 5,504
    Joined:  #2271

    Love ggs stuff but he can overdo the standing up at address and diving down on downswing which can cause low point and contact issues just as much as moving laterally off ball on backswing. It's just in the vertical dimension instead of horizontal.

    Posted:
  • airjammerairjammer  1133Members Posts: 1,133
    Joined:  #2272

    @RichieHunt said:
    I tend to wonder if shallowing out the shaft so much may be worse on wedges and short irons, although Trevino was very shallow and one of the greatest wedge players off all time. It's just a thought that I've pondered. But in reality, even if I'm correct I'd much rather hit it well with the driver and longer irons than hit it inferior with the driver and long irons, but hit it superior with the shorter irons. All of the data points to that.

    I also think there are people that can pull the handle down and still shallow out. Somebody like Gary Woodland may have trouble with 'keeping the arms up.' But I tend to find the golfers that can effectively shallow and pull the handle down to be far and few between.

    I've heard of some people having trouble with a hook and a block. But, I'm guessing they are not fully there yet with what GG teaches. They've basically figured out how to shallow the club, but they haven't quite figure out the pivot and the path goes too far out to the right.

    I'm certain that everything he says is not 1000% scientifically accurate and there's probably some things that there are easier ways to accomplish it. But in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't really matter if you have a coach that teaches it so students learn it and hit the ball great.

    RH

    Gary woodland and Ricky both steepen then shallow. They start shallowing around p6. They have been taught by Butch how to effectively release the club past themselves.

    You can pull the handle down but only a short period of time in downswing and that is what gets most people...they don’t decelerated quick enough to release the club.

    From working with Dan on similar feels as GG talks about I can hit it crazy good but if I pull on the handle at all in transition I absolutely cannot recover and I hate that.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5504Members Posts: 5,504
    Joined:  #2273

    to be honest, I don't even know what pull of the handle means

    Posted:
  • airjammerairjammer  1133Members Posts: 1,133
    Joined:  #2274

    I would define it as a conscious force applied to the grip toward the ball or target

    Posted:
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5504Members Posts: 5,504
    Joined:  #2275

    @airjammer said:
    I would define it as a conscious force applied to the grip toward the ball or target

    ok, I mean I definitely feel a swinging of my arms/hands on the grip as I shift my weight. Not sure if that's considered pulling the handle. I've also tried leaving them up and had success both ways.

    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3789Members Posts: 3,789
    Joined:  #2276

    To me, it's a force pulling downward on the handle. Everybody pulls the handle to some degree, it just depends when and how much. The players that shallow out big time, ala Ruiz, are not pulling the handle very much if at all in transition. This allows them to get their trail shoulder in external rotation (or transverse adduction) and get their lead wrist more into flexion and trail wrist more into extension.

    Hackers that come over the top from pulling the handle have pulled too much, too soon and it causes the opposite effect...trail shoulder is now in internal rotation, lead wrist extends and trail wrist goes into flexion.

    Guys like Woodland have a mix of both conditions, but shallow out the shaft. I believe the positive of it is that it tends to generate more torque which can be applied as force. But the downside is that it is still likely to produce steep AoA unless you're like Fowler who has the lead arm so far inward.

    RH

    Posted:
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5504Members Posts: 5,504
    Joined:  #2277

    @RichieHunt said:
    To me, it's a force pulling downward on the handle. Everybody pulls the handle to some degree, it just depends when and how much. The players that shallow out big time, ala Ruiz, are not pulling the handle very much if at all in transition. This allows them to get their trail shoulder in external rotation (or transverse adduction) and get their lead wrist more into flexion and trail wrist more into extension.

    Hackers that come over the top from pulling the handle have pulled too much, too soon and it causes the opposite effect...trail shoulder is now in internal rotation, lead wrist extends and trail wrist goes into flexion.

    Guys like Woodland have a mix of both conditions, but shallow out the shaft. I believe the positive of it is that it tends to generate more torque which can be applied as force. But the downside is that it is still likely to produce steep AoA unless you're like Fowler who has the lead arm so far inward.

    RH

    Woodland could be an example of a true pulling the handle I think. Pulls narrow down with hands and lets the shaft like hit him in the back, now that can cause you to be steep.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • LeftDaddyLeftDaddy  804Members Posts: 804
    Joined:  #2278

    I hit the range again to try to groove in some of my new Gankas moves. I’m primarily just doing the rounded back, and I’m attempting to “screw” my lead foot into the ground to create hip rotation and ground force.

    I’m striping the ball. It is one of the best feelings in the world. I’ve never had clean contact like I do now, at least on the range. Hoping to take it to the course this weekend.

    But, I have started to notice/worry about a couple of physiological things. First, the “bad posture” stance is killing my back. I’m hoping it is just a short term thing because I’m using motions I’ve never used before. But second, I’ve had 3 knee surgeries to repair torn ACLs (in both knees). I’m worried with this “****” motion of my lead foot at the top that I’m destined for more knee trouble.

    I figure since GG is somewhat of an expert in the physiology of the swing that he wouldn’t steer us all towards bad backs and knees. But who knows?

    Posted:
    Callaway 815 BBA DBD, Aldila Rogue Stiff
    Callaway X2 Hot 3 Deep, 14.5, Aldila Tour Green stiff
    Callaway Apex MB UT 2 iron, Project X PXI 6.0
    Callaway 2013 X-forged (3-5), Project X PXI 6.0
    Callaway Apex MB (6-PW), KBS Tour V stiff
    Vokey SM5 54, Callaway Mack Daddy 2 Tour Grind Chrome 58, both with KBS Tour
    Bettinardi BB1
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5504Members Posts: 5,504
    Joined:  #2279

    Lol, gg an expert in physiology, you guys put too much trust. If it’s hurting you, it’s not good and should stop plus you might not be doing it right

    Posted:
  • LeftDaddyLeftDaddy  804Members Posts: 804
    Joined:  #2280

    @Redjeep83 said:
    Lol, gg an expert in physiology, you guys put too much trust. If it’s hurting you, it’s not good and should stop plus you might not be doing it right

    It’s basically the only reason I’m intrigued by him. I don’t want the goofy looking swing almost even if it does work (I kid...sorta). But I’ve fought a few faults for years and long suspected that it wasn’t as simple as “stop doing that”. The first time I heard GG speak about the cause for some swing fault, was the first time I realized that my suspicion might be right. Then I read up on him, and he’s supposed to be an expert in the physiology of the swing. And again, he’s the only one I’ve heard that can tell me why I’m doing something...not “stop doing this”.

    But maybe the stuff that has been written about him is wrong? Maybe he didn’t actually study physiology?

    Posted:
    Callaway 815 BBA DBD, Aldila Rogue Stiff
    Callaway X2 Hot 3 Deep, 14.5, Aldila Tour Green stiff
    Callaway Apex MB UT 2 iron, Project X PXI 6.0
    Callaway 2013 X-forged (3-5), Project X PXI 6.0
    Callaway Apex MB (6-PW), KBS Tour V stiff
    Vokey SM5 54, Callaway Mack Daddy 2 Tour Grind Chrome 58, both with KBS Tour
    Bettinardi BB1
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83  5504Members Posts: 5,504
    Joined:  #2281

    @LeftDaddy said:

    @Redjeep83 said:
    Lol, gg an expert in physiology, you guys put too much trust. If it’s hurting you, it’s not good and should stop plus you might not be doing it right

    It’s basically the only reason I’m intrigued by him. I don’t want the goofy looking swing almost even if it does work (I kid...sorta). But I’ve fought a few faults for years and long suspected that it wasn’t as simple as “stop doing that”. The first time I heard GG speak about the cause for some swing fault, was the first time I realized that my suspicion might be right. Then I read up on him, and he’s supposed to be an expert in the physiology of the swing. And again, he’s the only one I’ve heard that can tell me why I’m doing something...not “stop doing this”.

    But maybe the stuff that has been written about him is wrong? Maybe he didn’t actually study physiology?

    He doesn’t have any degrees that deal with physiology or anything, he has just studied the swing for years and taught a lot of people. I’m only saying if a change is hurting you then stop.

    Posted:
77

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file