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does the usga miss the mark compared to the r&a regarding golf course selection for the open(s)


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the nice thing about "the open" is if you wanna go play the golf courses where "the open(s)" are held, you can. whereas in the US all the courses arent accessible to public. i feel like the USGA is missing the mark on this.

 

Pebble, Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Bethpage - have you played those?

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the nice thing about "the open" is if you wanna go play the golf courses where "the open(s)" are held, you can. whereas in the US all the courses arent accessible to public. i feel like the USGA is missing the mark on this.

 

Pebble, Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Bethpage - have you played those?

Oakmont, Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Baltusrol, Olympic Club, Oakland Hills, Medinah, Hazeltine, Southern Hills, The Country Club, etc. The list of private clubs that host majors outnumbers the public courses EASILY.

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the nice thing about "the open" is if you wanna go play the golf courses where "the open(s)" are held, you can. whereas in the US all the courses arent accessible to public. i feel like the USGA is missing the mark on this.

 

Pebble, Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Bethpage - have you played those?

Oakmont, Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Baltusrol, Olympic Club, Oakland Hills, Medinah, Hazeltine, Southern Hills, The Country Club, etc. The list of private clubs that host majors outnumbers the public courses EASILY.

 

Duh. I was asking if he had played the courses that are available to him yet.

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the nice thing about "the open" is if you wanna go play the golf courses where "the open(s)" are held, you can. whereas in the US all the courses arent accessible to public. i feel like the USGA is missing the mark on this.

 

Pebble, Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Bethpage - have you played those?

Oakmont, Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Baltusrol, Olympic Club, Oakland Hills, Medinah, Hazeltine, Southern Hills, The Country Club, etc. The list of private clubs that host majors outnumbers the public courses EASILY.

 

The USGA (and US Open) historically was not built to be "public" per se - all the founding members of the USGA are private clubs. They built the organization, fostered the success of the tournament, and have supported a huge number of other USGA events.

 

How many public courses have been willing to give up a week's worth (or more) revenue to host a Walker Cup, a Solheim Cup, a Senior Open, a US Amateur, etc.? Private clubs have made a long term commitment to the USGA in hosting all of these events, so it's not unreasonable that they get somewhat preferential treatment on the US Open.

 

There's also the fact that there really aren't that many public courses that meet the needs of the US Open - high quality, brutally long, near a major metro area. We don't have a public course in New England that could host (but probably ~3 - 5 privates that are capable, if unwilling).

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the nice thing about "the open" is if you wanna go play the golf courses where "the open(s)" are held, you can. whereas in the US all the courses arent accessible to public. i feel like the USGA is missing the mark on this.

 

Pebble, Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Bethpage - have you played those?

Oakmont, Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Baltusrol, Olympic Club, Oakland Hills, Medinah, Hazeltine, Southern Hills, The Country Club, etc. The list of private clubs that host majors outnumbers the public courses EASILY.

 

 

How many public courses have been willing to give up a week's worth (or more) revenue to host a Walker Cup, a Solheim Cup, a Senior Open, a US Amateur, etc.? Private clubs have made a long term commitment to the USGA in hosting all of these events, so it's not unreasonable that they get somewhat preferential treatment on the US Open.

 

 

You're right more than you might think. Bethpage has 5 courses that are in constant play. All you have to do is try to find a parking spot. FYI, they do have a large parking area. During the week of a golf event they close down the 5 courses to public play. I doubt that the USGA or whomever can match that lost revenue no matter how much they pay. I might be wrong there but I think I'm correct. Granted the local stores love it though,

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the nice thing about "the open" is if you wanna go play the golf courses where "the open(s)" are held, you can. whereas in the US all the courses arent accessible to public. i feel like the USGA is missing the mark on this.

 

Pebble, Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Bethpage - have you played those?

Oakmont, Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Baltusrol, Olympic Club, Oakland Hills, Medinah, Hazeltine, Southern Hills, The Country Club, etc. The list of private clubs that host majors outnumbers the public courses EASILY.

 

 

How many public courses have been willing to give up a week's worth (or more) revenue to host a Walker Cup, a Solheim Cup, a Senior Open, a US Amateur, etc.? Private clubs have made a long term commitment to the USGA in hosting all of these events, so it's not unreasonable that they get somewhat preferential treatment on the US Open.

 

 

You're right more than you might think. Bethpage has 5 courses that are in constant play. All you have to do is try to find a parking spot. FYI, they do have a large parking area. During the week of a golf event they close down the 5 courses to public play. I doubt that the USGA or whomever can match that lost revenue no matter how much they pay. I might be wrong there but I think I'm correct. Granted the local stores love it though,

 

Yep. It just seems unreasonable to me that public clubs want to grab the crown jewel event, but don't want to actually contribute and host the undercard events.

 

Pebble Beach and Pinehurst are both notable exceptions (and also notable as expensive resort destinations...).

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the nice thing about "the open" is if you wanna go play the golf courses where "the open(s)" are held, you can. whereas in the US all the courses arent accessible to public. i feel like the USGA is missing the mark on this.

 

Pebble, Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Bethpage - have you played those?

 

negative i havent. i stayed at the resort at pinehurst and just didnt feel a round of golf on number 2 was worth their asking price. esp not with pine needles, mid pines and dormie club all a short drive away and a fraction of the price). of those listed chambers bay is the most appealing to me to play, doubtful ill travel up there to play it though.

 

i did go to scotland and play an open course and a number of other rota qualifier courses. open (british) courses are much more accessible imo. hell st andrews is a public park in addition to being a golf course.

 

i hear yalls points i just liked the idea (when i was in scotland) of courses being way more accessible.

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The greens fees for non residents at Open courses are just as steep, if not more, than pebble, Torrey, etc. Troon is $300 and only available on certain days.

 

If you haven't bothered to play the public courses that have hosted half the US Opens this century, why care if they host more? Do you think the $27 golfnow rate including a hotdog and fountain drink is attracting a US Open to your local public course?

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The real answer is it's just the nature of private courses in the UK versus in the US. Most, not all, private courses in the states are truly private. Open to members and guests only. There are some privates that allow some golfnow or the like selling some of there open times if they need the revenue. The UK privates tend to be more open to outside play, for a high price.

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The greens fees for non residents at Open courses are just as steep, if not more, than pebble, Torrey, etc. Troon is $300 and only available on certain days.

 

If you haven't bothered to play the public courses that have hosted half the US Opens this century, why care if they host more? Do you think the $27 golfnow rate including a hotdog and fountain drink is attracting a US Open to your local public course?

 

that begs the question- if there were more us opens held on public tracks would pinehurst et al,, still able to charge such a premium due to more competition?

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the nice thing about "the open" is if you wanna go play the golf courses where "the open(s)" are held, you can. whereas in the US all the courses arent accessible to public. i feel like the USGA is missing the mark on this.

 

Pebble, Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Bethpage - have you played those?

Oakmont, Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Baltusrol, Olympic Club, Oakland Hills, Medinah, Hazeltine, Southern Hills, The Country Club, etc. The list of private clubs that host majors outnumbers the public courses EASILY.

 

 

How many public courses have been willing to give up a week's worth (or more) revenue to host a Walker Cup, a Solheim Cup, a Senior Open, a US Amateur, etc.? Private clubs have made a long term commitment to the USGA in hosting all of these events, so it's not unreasonable that they get somewhat preferential treatment on the US Open.

 

 

You're right more than you might think. Bethpage has 5 courses that are in constant play. All you have to do is try to find a parking spot. FYI, they do have a large parking area. During the week of a golf event they close down the 5 courses to public play. I doubt that the USGA or whomever can match that lost revenue no matter how much they pay. I might be wrong there but I think I'm correct. Granted the local stores love it though,

 

i think in a very short period they would be able to recover their losses due to the increased interest to play the track bc it held a us open. and long term they would benefit for the same reason.

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I hear you but Bethpage doesn't need that increased interest because there are no lulls in play on any course. Yes if it's raining or the threat or if it's very hot and humid, you'll find an opening here and there plus there are walk-ins always waiting to get on. The Black is a championship course, The Red almost to that level, The Blue was the signature course at Bethpage before The Black was updated and received most of the money, The Green and The Yellow are both not bad. All of the them are in nice shape for public courses and that's why they are always busy.

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I hear you but Bethpage doesn't need that increased interest because there are no lulls in play on any course. Yes if it's raining or the threat or if it's very hot and humid, you'll find an opening here and there plus there are walk-ins always waiting to get on. The Black is a championship course, The Red almost to that level, The Blue was the signature course at Bethpage before The Black was updated and received most of the money, The Green and The Yellow are both not bad. All of the them are in nice shape for public courses and that's why they are always busy.

 

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

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+1

 

It would be very nice to be able to play a lot of the courses the majors are held at on US soil.

 

Not a bad point at all, though you would want to exclude Chambers Bay from your "wish list" right?

 

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I think the answer is a resounding yes. Certainly there are public courses worthy of hosting a US Open. The problem is, the USGA doesn't "get it" and hasn't gotten it for quite some time.

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I go in the complete opposite direction on this. Most of the great American private clubs are very inaccessible to the average golfer. The one time we really get to see them is when a major championship comes to town. I like an occasional publicly accessible course to host an Open because it's fun to revisit a round at a place I've played and to watch guys much better than me play it "correctly" while, occasionally, butchering a hole that I played well. But I'd much rather get a glimpse of a course like Oakmont, Merion, or Shinnecock Hills, not in spite of the fact that I may never play them myself, but BECAUSE of the fact that I may never play them myself. The US has some truly great, historic private clubs with a lot of crazy and sometimes sordid stories, and I enjoy getting an annual glimpse inside their gates.

 

I also think about it from the perspective of an amateur who manages to qualify for the tournament. I've played and loved the 2014, 2017, and 2019 host sites, and I'd be ecstatic to qualify for a US Open at one of those great and accessible (if expensive) courses. But I'd be just a little more ecstatic if I qualified for the 2016 or 2018 US Open instead.

 

I'll never have the time, the means, nor the connections to play every great private course I wish I could play. I love that the US Open occasionally gives me an opportunity to at least make my daydreams a little more accurate.

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The USGA *used* to miss the mark, but they have come a long ways in the last 20 years or so. Consider this, in the last 18 years nine Opens were held on publicly-accessible courses (Pinehurst * 3, Pebble * 2, Bethpage * 2, Torrey Pines, Chambers Bay). 50% is a really good ratio, actually. Contrast this with the 18 years prior to that, where only 2 (Pebble * 2) were public. And 4 of the next 10 (Erin Hills, Pebble, Torrey Pines, Pinehurst) will be public too.

 

The USGA has a lot of issues, but they deserve credit here -- they have come a long way.

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One more thought...

 

This isn't really a situation where the USGA misses the mark and the R&A gets it right. The fundamental issue is that private clubs in the US are far more exclusive than the ones in the UK. The R&A picks some of the least accessible courses in the British Isles to host The Open. The courses on the rota are extremely expensive without exception, and they're generally much more restrictive about allowing public access than their less famous neighbors. It just happens to be that the golf club culture in the UK is less centered on exclusion than that in the US, and the most exclusive courses on that side of the pond still usually accommodate at least a little bit of guest play. By American definition, there are only a tiny handful of "truly" private clubs in the UK. Even the most prestigious courses there mostly follow a model that we in the US would call "semi-private."

 

I do wish the great clubs in the US were more willing to embrace a similar model, even if I understand why private US clubs value the autonomy, club culture, and course and turf quality that comes with being truly private. I'm a member of a private club myself, and many of my favorite things about the course and club would have to change if we were going to allow public play. I also respect that US club members spend a LOT more money on dues than those in the UK, since they don't have public rounds subsidizing their operation. But it does suck a bit that the average golfer in the US who truly loves the game but lacks connections may never get a chance to play the best course in his own town or state, let alone one of the blue blood clubs that hosts a US Open every few years. Still, I'd rather see a great course host a US Open than never get to see it at all.

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We need to find courses that fit the bill before we can say they are missing the mark. Anyone got any options?

 

streamsong, kiawah, harbour town, (even tho i didnt care for the course). greenbriar, pete dye golf club in west virginia. heck if royal new kent sped up the greens that would be a great venue(freaking course is a beast). im just naming courses in my neck of the woods or that i have played. im sure guys in other parts of the country know of courses that may be suitable.

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The best, more difficult courses in US are private and expensive, plus private club membership supports tour events in many ways. Another factor has to do with average Joe golfer. He doesn't like playing difficult, highly rated courses and paying high green fees. They want easy and wide open and cheap discount vouchers. PGA Tour doesn't want easy and wide open, not even if long, and has to find various funding sources. Also, economics resources of European events are a bit different from American events. You might look up some of the courses in rotation; not all are public. Some are tied to Resorts allowing semi-public play if staying in the resort. There are reasons why The Open has a limited course rotation...

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We need to find courses that fit the bill before we can say they are missing the mark. Anyone got any options?

 

streamsong, kiawah, harbour town, (even tho i didnt care for the course). greenbriar, pete dye golf club in west virginia. heck if royal new kent sped up the greens that would be a great venue(freaking course is a beast). im just naming courses in my neck of the woods or that i have played. im sure guys in other parts of the country know of courses that may be suitable.

 

You're ignoring two of the most important factors: weather (nobody wants to play or spectate at Streamsong in mid June), and proximity to a major city for logistics.

 

It's not just about quality of the course.

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