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Last 6 major winners used 2 wedge setups. Time for a rule change?

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  • jjj912jjj912  1487Posted: Members Posts: 1,487
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    lopey986 wrote:
    jjj912 wrote:

    Marand wrote:

    jmck wrote:






    PW doesn't count here. It gets lumped in with the irons. Playing two wedges is (PW not counting as a "wedge" despite the name, plus....) sand wedge around 53-55 and lob wedge around 58-60.




    If it's not a wedge why do all of the golf manufacturers, save Hogan, call it that and stamp PW on the club? image/read.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':read:' />




    Because in the modern numbering/naming convention, PW comes after 9 without regard to the design of the club. Furthermore, a modern, set matching PW has the same design as the short irons and a similar loft and thus can be considered as a mere continuation of the short irons.



    If a set matching PW were a true wedge, it'd be designed more like a specialty wedge (e.g., a Vokey or 588) and have loft in the 50*-53* range.




    Well Jimmy Walker used 3 Vokeys. 3-9 716 TMB and 3 Vokeys...ergo...3 "wedges".



    Also, irons can include a set matching sand and lob wedge if I wanted, so would that mean i'm using NO wedges by your defintion?




    No. Once you hit a 50* loft, the clubs usually at least pretend to be wedges, even if the don't have flexible design of a specialty wedge.



    A Vokey 48* is closer to a wedge than most set matching wedges, to be sure.



    To an extent, I try to take a functional approach to the definition of a wedge. So, if you hit a 40 yd pitches with your set matching 46* PW, then I can't really argue with you if you want to call it a wedge. To an extent I also consider most clubs at or over 50* to be wedges, though there are some that I think may be better called super high lofted irons.



    The only reason why I'm even discussing how to define the term wedge is because we (meaning GolfWRX posters) don't have a common definition and thus the conversation is cumbersome because we're always having to say if we're including the nominal PW in the discussion. If it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't care about it enough to post.
    Posted:
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake  2024Posted: Members Posts: 2,024
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    I've done it all.

    P, 56

    P, 56, 60

    P, 52, 56, 60

    P, 52, 58

    P, 54, 60

    P, 51, 54, 57, 60

    P, 52, 58, 64



    And literally have tweaked every single one of those lofts a degree or two here or there within that wedge configuration. 6° gaps? Sure. 3° gaps? Why not. 2, 3, 4, 5 wedges???? Give it a shot. And what did I learn?



    Well, I'm not really sure what I learned, but I'll try to make something up that sounds eloquent.



    None of it matters. Not really. Not to us. I mean, I have my preferences with how the wedges should be set up and I suggest that to my students, but that doesn't mean I'm right. We are all going to have days where we end up in between yardages, either at the top end of the bag, or the bottom end. We are all going to have days where the ball ends up in a lie that we don't like to deal with, multiple times. It's golf, and even though we want to, sometimes, you just can't shoehorn this swing idea or that bag setup into your game.



    Here's my rule: Make sure that you have a wedge (or wedges) in your bag that allow you to hit your favorite style of short game shot as often as possible under the conditions that you face most often. If that means you only need one wedge to hit "your" pitch shot and bunker shot, congrats! You get to load up the bag somewhere else. If that means you need 3 wedges to hit "your" pitch and bunker shots, congrats! You are going to have really nice tight gaps in your wedges! Either way, you'll be fine.



    PS. I purposely didn't say anything about chip shots and partial wedges for a reason. Simply put, you should be able to hit a chip shot with most any club in the bag and, as far as partial wedges, lol, you aren't really out there practicing those that much anyway, are you? Just lay up to 100yds! (said in jest, but there is a bit of truth buried deep down there, isn't there?)
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  • youngwaldoyoungwaldo NJ 3230Posted: Members Posts: 3,230
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    Everyone should just copy my wedge setup. Money!



    Wk
    Posted:
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  • krisrodkrisrod  72Posted: Members Posts: 72
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    jjj912 wrote:
    lopey986 wrote:
    jjj912 wrote:
    Marand wrote:
    jmck wrote:
    PW doesn't count here. It gets lumped in with the irons. Playing two wedges is (PW not counting as a "wedge" despite the name, plus....) sand wedge around 53-55 and lob wedge around 58-60.
    If it's not a wedge why do all of the golf manufacturers, save Hogan, call it that and stamp PW on the club? image/read.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':read:' />
    Because in the modern numbering/naming convention, PW comes after 9 without regard to the design of the club. Furthermore, a modern, set matching PW has the same design as the short irons and a similar loft and thus can be considered as a mere continuation of the short irons. If a set matching PW were a true wedge, it'd be designed more like a specialty wedge (e.g., a Vokey or 588) and have loft in the 50*-53* range.
    Well Jimmy Walker used 3 Vokeys. 3-9 716 TMB and 3 Vokeys...ergo...3 "wedges". Also, irons can include a set matching sand and lob wedge if I wanted, so would that mean i'm using NO wedges by your defintion?
    No. Once you hit a 50* loft, the clubs usually at least pretend to be wedges, even if the don't have flexible design of a specialty wedge. A Vokey 48* is closer to a wedge than most set matching wedges, to be sure. To an extent, I try to take a functional approach to the definition of a wedge. So, if you hit a 40 yd pitches with your set matching 46* PW, then I can't really argue with you if you want to call it a wedge. To an extent I also consider most clubs at or over 50* to be wedges, though there are some that I think may be better called super high lofted irons. The only reason why I'm even discussing how to define the term wedge is because we (meaning GolfWRX posters) don't have a common definition and thus the conversation is cumbersome because we're always having to say if we're including the nominal PW in the discussion. If it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't care about it enough to post.


    For most people their PW is essentially a 10i. It's a full swing club that goes a little shorter than their 9i, that they occasionally use for chipping, just like their 9i, 8i and 7i.
    Posted:
    Driver: taylormade-small.jpg M2 10.5*
    3 Wood: taylormade-small.jpg M2 16.5*
    (Driving Iron: taylormade-small.jpg P790 UDI 17*)
    (Hybrid: taylormade-small.jpg R15 19*)
    Irons: taylormade-small.jpg PSi 3-PW
    Wedges: taylormade-small.jpg Tour Preferred EF ATV Grind 52* and 58*
    (Wedges: taylormade-small.jpg Hi-Toe 52* and 58*)
    Putter: [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]scotty-small.jpg [/font]2014 Newport
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  • pokerplayerpokerplayer  116Posted: Members Posts: 116
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    well with the way irons are going, soon you will have a PW at 39 or 40 degrees. I really doubt you can consider that a wedge. I think 45 or 46 is the lowest loft i will consider something being a wedge.



    I also like having less wedges, so when I shank it into the woods, I only have to 2 wedges instead of P, G1, G2, G3, S, L image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    Posted:
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    Method 007 @ 33.5"


    .... i think its set?!?!
  • ShipwreckShipwreck  3955Posted: Members Posts: 3,955
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    I'm a 4 wedge (PW/50/54/58) kind of guy. I feel extremely comfortable with distances from 135 and in. I prefer to not hit my 50/54/58 on full shots but will if necessary. Unfortunately there are too many variables that affect my shot decision (wind/pin placement/hazards etc) so I believe in having many tools to get the job done. A hammer might be the best tool at building a house, but it isn't the only tool you need.
    Posted:

    Bag as of 14MAY2019
    Driver - Cobra F9 Speedback w/ Evenflow White 76x
    3w - Cobra F8 w/ HZRDS RED 6.5
    Hybrid - Cobra F7 w/ Fuji VTS Silver Stiff
    Irons - Titleist 718 AP2 w/ AMT S300 Tour White 4-9
    Wedges Titleist SM7 w/ AMT S300 Tour White 46/50/54/60
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  • RRFirebladeRRFireblade AKA Jay.  4782Posted: Members Posts: 4,782
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    It really doesn't matter. Technically none of the clubs in the whole bag are full swing clubs. The amount of times in a round that I take a full "stock" swing at a pin is virtually zero. After that it's really just bag setup preferences and how you like to have your gaps. I like to have relatively even gaps throughout the bag. The idea that less clubs/wedges leaves less room for decision making is silly. It doesn't make a difference. Every shot takes the same amount of decision-making no matter how many clubs you have in the bag. The less club options you have to execute a specific shot, then the more you have to be skilled at manipulating each Club. That's usually not a good thing for most amateurs. But the psyche is a strange thing and sometimes overcomes logic. Whatever you think works often does.
    Posted:
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  • og512og512  575Posted: Members Posts: 575
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    I went from 3 to 2 wedges... was the best thing I could have for my game... having an 8* difference cuts out all the guess work for me for which wedge to use. I
    Posted:
  • bossman641bossman641  307Posted: Members Posts: 307
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    I've played 4 wedges in the past but have been playing 3 for years now - 46° PW, 52°, 58°. I like the simplicity of it, plus I've always been a feel player and prefer hitting half and 3/4 wedges over full anyways.
    Posted:
  • 4pillars4pillars  660Posted: Members Posts: 660
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    mahonie wrote:


    In commentary on Sky last night, Butch Harmon said that Jimmy Walker was one of the only guys he knows who uses one wedge for every shot around the green from flop shots to low bump and runs, manipulating the club head with his fantastic hands.



    I can remember when you had a 50* PW and 55* SW and that was it...I can't remember never having enough loft in my hand with a 55* SW. Having said that, as my PW is now 46* I usually play 52-58 but have just added an old 56* SW as it is easier to plug the distance gaps at the other end of the bag with the variety of woods, hybrids and driving irons.




    I'm sure that can't be right.



    Zac Johnson recommends just using one wedge



    "Another word of wisdom: Get good with one of your wedges. Choose the one you're most comfortable with and practice with it the most. With so many loft and bounce options, it can be tough to decide which wedge is right for a given chip or pitch. Having confidence in your go-to wedge makes the job a whole lot easier."



    Short Game coach James Ridyard recommends using just one - with a smash factor of one so that you are using the built in throwing ability from your genes, ie it will go the same amount as if you threw it.
    Posted:
  • mahoniemahonie England 2567Posted: Members Posts: 2,567
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    4pillars wrote:

    mahonie wrote:


    In commentary on Sky last night, Butch Harmon said that Jimmy Walker was one of the only guys he knows who uses one wedge for every shot around the green from flop shots to low bump and runs, manipulating the club head with his fantastic hands.



    I can remember when you had a 50* PW and 55* SW and that was it...I can't remember never having enough loft in my hand with a 55* SW. Having said that, as my PW is now 46* I usually play 52-58 but have just added an old 56* SW as it is easier to plug the distance gaps at the other end of the bag with the variety of woods, hybrids and driving irons.




    I'm sure that can't be right.



    Zac Johnson recommends just using one wedge



    "Another word of wisdom: Get good with one of your wedges. Choose the one you're most comfortable with and practice with it the most. With so many loft and bounce options, it can be tough to decide which wedge is right for a given chip or pitch. Having confidence in your go-to wedge makes the job a whole lot easier."



    Short Game coach James Ridyard recommends using just one - with a smash factor of one so that you are using the built in throwing ability from your genes, ie it will go the same amount as if you threw it.




    There are two main schools of thought as I see it: use one wedge for all of your shots; or use one swing with various clubs. I have real difficulty hitting a 20 yard bump and run with even a 52* gap wedge and usually use 8-iron. If there is a bunker in the way, I use a slightly longer 'bump and run' swing with a wedge but I am much less consistent with a wedge in my hand.



    I can see the benefits of both schools...the one wedge route would mean a lot more practice to master all the shots for me though.
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  • krisrodkrisrod  72Posted: Members Posts: 72
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    I can't think of a single situation where simplicity is not better. For some people, simplicity is one swing with different clubs (as discussed above), for others simplicity is one club with different swings. Whatever works for each individual is the way to go, but for me switching from 3 wedges (52/56/60) to 2 (usually 52/58 but sometimes 54/60) changed my game and lowered my scores by about 5 shots a round.
    Posted:
    Driver: taylormade-small.jpg M2 10.5*
    3 Wood: taylormade-small.jpg M2 16.5*
    (Driving Iron: taylormade-small.jpg P790 UDI 17*)
    (Hybrid: taylormade-small.jpg R15 19*)
    Irons: taylormade-small.jpg PSi 3-PW
    Wedges: taylormade-small.jpg Tour Preferred EF ATV Grind 52* and 58*
    (Wedges: taylormade-small.jpg Hi-Toe 52* and 58*)
    Putter: [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]scotty-small.jpg [/font]2014 Newport
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  • nilopolnilopol  687Posted: Members Posts: 687
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    I went to a 4 wedge set up a while back as based on my shirt game. 54 for 100y and then 10-12 about that. Moved to a 58 from a 60 as pretty confident manipulating for around the greens. A few sets back Pw was 47 so 110 was a partial shot, but sets since pw has been 46 and now 45 with 9 iron accordingly stronger. So naturally now have a 50 Uw matching the irons and still feel like I have "2" wedges at the bottom since those match and the U matches the irons.



    Also I can't find the article but it commented on wedges in that depending on the Tees/distances you are hitting from, if you most often are left with no more than a 7 iron in than play more wedges. If you are more than 7 iron in than put more options on the top end.
    Posted:
  • ex0dusex0dus  506Posted: Members Posts: 506
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    Having a 30 yard gap between my pw and sw was too much for me so i added a gap wedge and haven't thought about going back. Pros can lay up to specific distances so that the gap isnt as big of an issue.
    Posted:
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  • benclabbenclab golfn702  1630Posted: Members Posts: 1,630
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    I tried the 4 wedges setup a few times and always go back to 3. I like partial shots more than full wedges and it gave me too many options. My wedge play didn't improve with 4 like I had hoped so in went back. Digging the wedge life again.
    Posted:
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  • SwingBladeSwingBlade SoCal 884Posted: Members Posts: 884
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    This has come up at least three times this year. Again, of the top ten wedge players on the PGA Tour, 50% play 3 wedges and 50% play 4 wedges, and a few sometimes play 5 wedges at a course like Augusta.



    They are all different and we are all different.
    Posted:
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  • just plain billjust plain bill  1488Posted: Unregistered Posts: 1,488
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    suprfli6 wrote:


    Whatever works for them, they know their game better than anyone. I play much shorter courses and like having 10 yard gaps for 120-110-100 since I get those yardages very often throughout a round, so I'll stick with my 50/54/58 setup.


    i run into the same thing, but i just added a 68* for BIG flop shots to tight pins....had to pull the 17* hybrid to make room, but my bag is probably unusual, but gets the job done, and is based on my individual need...
    Posted:
  • dunndunn  6362Posted: Members Posts: 6,362
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    SuperCarl wrote:


    Just kidding.



    But it's an interesting fact. Does the streamlined training when using one GW/SW and one LW make a difference or is it just a coincidence?



    I've been using a 52-56-60 setup all my life but I'm really curious about the 2 wedge setup. I don't need the extra wood but I could for sure need some help with my wedges. Maybe less tools and more familiarity with them is the way to go?





    What's your thoughts about 2 or 3 wedge setups?
    tried it and didn't work as well, but prolly have to give it alot more time to have it set in...just coincidence, I am sure there have been times when 3 wedges were winners back to back to back....etc



    Been back to 3 wedges and am happy
    Posted:
  • Jaygolf37Jaygolf37 All Go. No Quit.  679Posted: Members Posts: 679
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    I have played my last 3 rounds at level par. This is working for me...may not for you. I simplified and it worked. I am not Phil.



    PW is 47.5

    GW is 52

    SW is 58



    The SW does not get hit with a full swing unless it's from crap lie, or long bunker. It is the finesse club in my bag. The rest are flighted, like the rest of my irons, by my swing.



    Downside? I "carry" an extra long iron I never use.
    Posted:
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    Odyssey Black Series Tour #5
    ...all subject to “adjustment” per WRX societal norms...
  • TheKclubTheKclub  54Posted: Members Posts: 54
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    gators78 wrote:


    Kind of threw me for a loop here, I was thinking there's no way they're only using 2 wedges.



    Upon inspection they are using 2 wedges in addition to the PW in their set, so they all really use 3 wedges. 3-4 is pretty much the norm.


    I thought the whole point of this thread was to discuss the difference between a 2 and a 3 wedge set up. Saying everyone carries between 2 and 3 wedges (or 3 or 4 if you include the PW) doesn't really help :P .

    Personally, I'm more and more curious about that 2 wedge idea. I'm pretty sure I could live well without my 51 if I had a 54 and a 58. I now uses a 51-56-60 set up. My only fear is that I'd miss the 60 too much. Anyone doing pw-54-60?

    That sounds like something I'd like to try.
    Posted:
  • UncleJohn’sBandUncleJohn’sBand  1024Posted: Members Posts: 1,024
    Joined:  edited Aug 15, 2016 #82

    BigHook25 wrote:

    coho10 wrote:



    When you practice as much as these guys do you can reliably alter distance, trajectory, spin with only 2 wedges. Doesn't work for me.




    Exactly this....I don't have the time to practice so I need every club I can get!




    I hardly practice, but find it easier to just use two wedges. I don't see the need for small gaps from 50-60 degrees, a 5 to 6 degree gap is fine. The less wedges the less you think about it or think about hitting shots you probably can't.




    If I need the precision of 3-4 degree gaps from 150-200 yards then I certainly need it inside 100 yards where the majority of shots are hit.




    Well if you're winning majors, you aren't getting up and down too many times cause you're hitting 55-60 greens a tournament, if not more. Which is a $#!+ ton.
    Posted:
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  • jwb10jwb10 Major Winner Mars 1006Posted: Members Posts: 1,006
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    It's funny because I just switched to a 4 wedge set-up because my 60 is so much more versatile than my 56 ! But I still need the 56 for shots between 85 and 105 yards. 15 Club rule IS THE ANSWER ! image/superman.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':superman:' /> image/stop.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stop:' /> image/to_become_senile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':to_become_senile:' /> image/to_become_senile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':to_become_senile:' />
    Posted:
  • idriveahondaidriveahonda Virginia Beach, VA 1055Posted: Members Posts: 1,055
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    I went from PW/51/55/59 to PW/52/58 and have been playing significantly better. Never been happier



    Around the greens...there is 58* (high and soft), 52* (mid with check), or any other club for bump and run.



    Oftentimes I think fewer options are better for players.
    Posted:
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  • golfgirlrobingolfgirlrobin  2382Posted: Members Posts: 2,382
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    To me, wedges are even more personal than putting. Carry however many wedges allow you to execute the kind of shots you visualize.



    I carry PW plus 4, and never hit any of them full out. I'm comfortable with lots of options. I'd really rather give something up at the top of the bag than limit my scoring clubs.



    Posted:
    Driver: Ping G400 Max 10.5*
    Fairway: Epic Flash 14* & 20*
    Hybrid: Ping G410 22*
    Irons: TaylorMade M CGB 6-SW
    Wedges: Callaway PM Grind 59* and 64*
    Putter: Ping Vault 2.0 Ketsch
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  • drvrwdgedrvrwdge  2434Posted: Members Posts: 2,434
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    Whatever idriveahonda says should be automatically discredited and taken with no value what so ever because he is blackout drunk 95% of the time he plays..... image/air_kiss.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':air_kiss:' />
    Posted:
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  • jmckjmck  4467Posted: Members Posts: 4,467
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    drvrwdge wrote:


    Whatever idriveahonda says should be automatically discredited and taken with no value what so ever because he is blackout drunk 95% of the time he plays..... image/air_kiss.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':air_kiss:' />




    That's interesting. You could argue that that's a good reason to carry fewer wedges--the better to cause less befuddlement in the drunkard's brain. Or you could argue that that's a good reason to carry more wedges--the better to not hurt your game if you leave one or two behind somewhere. Hmmm....
    Posted:
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  • RogerinNewZealandRogerinNewZealand Maungakeikei Auckland New Zealand 2610Posted: Members Posts: 2,610
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    Young Waldo, your setup will definitely help people with a Rhythm issue,

    No static at all... FF MM

    Cheers!

    Just an Old Steely Dan Fan
    Posted:
    2019 September nice bag

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    Mizuno MP 63 DGR300 at D4

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse Kansas 13618Posted: Members Posts: 13,618
    Joined:  #89
    A little secret from the old days. Players like Jack, Hogan and I think Watson for a while played with a 51-53 degree PW and a 57-58 degree SW. the specs may have been listed as 55-56 on the SW but they like some extra loft.



    This translates well into the modern set with many carrying 58 degree wedges with a 52-54 gap wedge, the modern PW is nothing more than a 9 iron.



    The more things change.....
    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • idriveahondaidriveahonda Virginia Beach, VA 1055Posted: Members Posts: 1,055
    Joined:  #90
    drvrwdge wrote:


    Whatever idriveahonda says should be automatically discredited and taken with no value what so ever because he is blackout drunk 95% of the time he plays..... image/air_kiss.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':air_kiss:' />




    And continually DRAGS YO A$$ while blackout drunk.
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ w/ Hzardus Smoke
    TM UDI 20* w/ RIP Tour 90
    Callaway Apex Pro 19 4-PW
    Mack Daddy 4 52/10 S Grind
    Mack Daddy 58/10 PM Grind
    Taylormade Spider X
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

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  • Lacey UnderallLacey Underall  1184Posted: Members Posts: 1,184
    Joined:  #91
    I'll admit that I didn't read all three pages..........but one other thing to consider is swing speed. The less swing speed you have, the more wedges you should carry. Four degree gaps are perfect for short to medium hitting amateurs. Longer hitting amateurs and pros are better off with 6 degree gaps. That's why you've seen forever that the most popular set ups on tour are 48-54-60 and 46-52-58.



    I also agree with several people who have said MORE practice time with LESS wedges can be very beneficial. But if you don't have much time to practice like many weekend warriors, then having more wedges to make full swings is a good idea.
    Posted:
    2019 WITB
    Driver: Callaway Epic Flash Sub-Zero 10.5* - Project X Hzrdus Black 75 6.5
    3 Wood: Callaway Epic 15* - Aldila Rogue Max 85x
    2-PW: Callaway X-Prototype MBs - Project X 6.5 flighted
    52* Wedge: Callaway MD2 Slate S Grind
    58* Wedge: Callaway MD2 Slate S Grind
    Putter: Odyssey Jailbird Mini
6

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