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Most Over Rated Course on the Major Rotation

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  • FergusonFerguson Members  5934WRX Points: 3,395Handicap: 7.0Posts: 5,934 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @MountainGoat said:

    On -, @Ferguson said:

    The Camp David 9-Holer. Hasn't been the same since they shortened 3 and 4.

    Actually, Camp David only has a single green with a couple of tee areas. Judging by the most current GoogleMaps image, it's currently undergoing renovation. The nearest course to the compound is Maple Run, which is quite possibly the worst pos golf course on the face of the Earth.

    Clearly you have never been to Camp David.

    Posted:
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  • gvogelgvogel Members  8472WRX Points: 1,398Posts: 8,472 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @cdnglf said:

    On -, @Roadking2003 said:

    On -, @FairwayFred said:> You need to go play Sand Hills or Friars Head sometime.

    I would love to, but they are not likely due to location. My next few destinations are;

    Cabot Links
    Lake Tahoe
    Punta Cana
    Banff
    Bandon Dunes

    You probably already know this, but...
    if you’re going all the way to Cape Breton, you might want to play Highlands Links too. Like Banff, it was designed by Stanley Thompson. At least top 10 on every list of Canadian courses that I’ve ever seen.

    I've played Banff and I have played Highland Links. Highland Links is more spectacular. Both were exceptionally enjoyable.

    Posted:
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  • JD3JD3 Members  5073WRX Points: 407Posts: 5,073 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 12, 2019 #364

    Next year it's Winged Foot (imo a great US open course, probably the best), Harding park (looks good to me on TV, but many who've played it don't seem to agree), and royal at george's which I dont know much about other than having some sahara sized bunker.

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  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Members  3268WRX Points: 1,391Posts: 3,268 Titanium Tees
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    TPC Sawgrass.

    Thread closed.

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  • tideridertiderider Members  3102WRX Points: 2,136Handicap: 5ishPosts: 3,102 Titanium Tees
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    TPC Sawgrass.

    Thread closed.

    not a major ... thread opened!

    Posted:
  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Members  3268WRX Points: 1,391Posts: 3,268 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @tiderider said:


    TPC Sawgrass.

    Thread closed.

    not a major ... thread opened!

    Yeah but but but....5th major!!!

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  • KrazyTrain18KrazyTrain18 West CoastMembers  3270WRX Points: 239Handicap: 1.5Posts: 3,270 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @BottleCap said:

    On -, @Shilgy said:

    On -, @BottleCap said:

    Pebble and Pinehurst, glorified resort courses

    Gee, don't forget Torrey and Bethpage, glorified munis. A good course is a good course.

    Exactly, but those aren't good courses, they're just in the inner circle.
    PGA West Stadium and PGA National are good courses. Could you imagine those with a US Open setup? It would be crazy

    I actually wouldn't mind seeing PGA National host a major.

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  • mcputtermcputter Members  1056WRX Points: 239Handicap: 0.9Posts: 1,056 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @KrazyTrain18 said:

    On -, @BottleCap said:

    On -, @Shilgy said:

    On -, @BottleCap said:

    Pebble and Pinehurst, glorified resort courses

    Gee, don't forget Torrey and Bethpage, glorified munis. A good course is a good course.

    Exactly, but those aren't good courses, they're just in the inner circle.
    PGA West Stadium and PGA National are good courses. Could you imagine those with a US Open setup? It would be crazy

    I actually wouldn't mind seeing PGA National host a major.

    PGA National hosted the 1987 PGA Championship, but obviously it's not in the majors regular rotation. With the PGA being played so early in the year now, it may get more consideration again. Of course, the Honda would have to be played somewhere else that year.

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  • JD3JD3 Members  5073WRX Points: 407Posts: 5,073 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @tiderider said:


    TPC Sawgrass.

    Thread closed.

    not a major ... thread opened!

    Thats the good thing about players being held there, at least that crappy track won't get to host a real major. Other than the par 5's, that course is useless

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members  714WRX Points: 106Posts: 714 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Aug 29, 2019 #371

    On -, @WidespreadPanic said:

    Baltusrol looked like your standard Country Club course. A nice course? Yeah. A Major Championship course for the PGA Tour? Not in my eyes. The PGA Tour needs to check out Bulle Rock in Maryland.

    Standard CC? Since when do CCs have 36holes by Tilly, a golden age architect.

    Most of Baltusrols strategic holes never make it on TV. Seeing the course on TV doesn't do it justice as in person. Large multitiered greens, sloping fairways and the mountainous terrain look flat on TV.

    Tilly split multiple fairways distancewise forcing strategic play and added defenses against bomb n' gouge play a century ago.

    There are many risk/ reward challenges, blind shots, required shot shaping around hazards/doglegs and yes a few blind shots.

    After being on Bulle Rock and Baltusrol many times I can see why LPGA doesn't go back to Bulle Rock while USGA and PGA do go back to Baltusrol.

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members  714WRX Points: 106Posts: 714 Golden Tee
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    On -, @johnnypro said:

    Baltusrol and Pinehurst 2.....neck and neck. They both suck.

    Bethpage is so much harder than Balty, it ain't even funny.

    Different courses designed by probably the same architect for different purposes. Balty was designed to test players in tournaments. Bethpage was designed to be tough w/o any idea of hosting tournaments.

    Balty is a somewhat mountainous mature tree lined parkland course w/ splt fairways and mounds.
    Bethpage is an inland sandy hilly open w/ limited trees and mounds. Both course require strategic thinking and are not only drive and wedge play.

    Bethpage is definitely usually tougher as the rough esp. for the US Open is allowed to grow belly button high 4ft off the fairway and thigh high 1ft off the fairway. However during the PGA Championship, rough was much, much lower. Thigh high fescue at worst areas not trambled down. Balty has been 2-4" thick rough and no fescue during the PGA Championships.

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  • nicelifenicelife Members  133WRX Points: 94Posts: 133 Fairways
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    Augusta - No tournament/course lives further up its own **** than Augusta.

    Posted:
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members  2471WRX Points: 968Posts: 2,471 Platinum Tees
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    Pebble Beach.

    You should not pull a course that hosts an annual PGA Tour Tournament (ATT Pebble Beach Pro-Am) and make it into a major venue.

    Honorable Mentions: Congressional for the same reason as above. Whistling Straights for the bunker/waste area debacle.

    Posted:
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members  2471WRX Points: 968Posts: 2,471 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @smashdn said:

    Pebble Beach.

    You should not pull a course that hosts an annual PGA Tour Tournament (ATT Pebble Beach Pro-Am) and make it into a major venue.

    If it is a spectacular course, then why not?

    Just my opinion/preference is all. If I was picking major venues I would not pick PB for that reason alone. And I do agree it is a nice venue and good architecture. I wish they would pull a Coore and Crenshaw style reno on it though. Make it rugged and more natural as it was originally.

    Posted:
  • JD3JD3 Members  5073WRX Points: 407Posts: 5,073 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @aabcuue said:

    On -, @WidespreadPanic said:

    Baltusrol looked like your standard Country Club course. A nice course? Yeah. A Major Championship course for the PGA Tour? Not in my eyes. The PGA Tour needs to check out Bulle Rock in Maryland.

    Standard CC? Since when do CCs have 36holes by Tilly, a golden age architect.

    Most of Baltusrols strategic holes never make it on TV. Seeing the course on TV doesn't do it justice as in person. Large multitiered greens, sloping fairways and the mountainous terrain look flat on TV.

    Tilly split multiple fairways distancewise forcing strategic play and added defenses against bomb n' gouge play a century ago.

    There are many risk/ reward challenges, blind shots, required shot shaping around hazards/doglegs and yes a few blind shots.

    After being on Bulle Rock and Baltusrol many times I can see why LPGA doesn't go back to Bulle Rock while USGA and PGA do go back to Baltusrol.

    17 may be the best par 5 I ever played. The rest of the course is a good fair test just not particularly interesting as an "everyday" course.

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  • johnnyprojohnnypro Lynbrook, nyMembers  1910WRX Points: 157Handicap: 14.5Posts: 1,910 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @aabcuue said:

    On -, @johnnypro said:

    Baltusrol and Pinehurst 2.....neck and neck. They both suck.

    Bethpage is so much harder than Balty, it ain't even funny.

    Different courses designed by probably the same architect for different purposes. Balty was designed to test players in tournaments. Bethpage was designed to be tough w/o any idea of hosting tournaments.

    Balty is a somewhat mountainous mature tree lined parkland course w/ splt fairways and mounds.
    Bethpage is an inland sandy hilly open w/ limited trees and mounds. Both course require strategic thinking and are not only drive and wedge play.

    Bethpage is definitely usually tougher as the rough esp. for the US Open is allowed to grow belly button high 4ft off the fairway and thigh high 1ft off the fairway. However during the PGA Championship, rough was much, much lower. Thigh high fescue at worst areas not trambled down. Balty has been 2-4" thick rough and no fescue during the PGA Championships.

    I think you're exaggerating the rough issue. I'm standing by my original opinion. There's a tee on 15 at the Black that was built for the 2002 Open that STILL hasn't been used. Not once. And they rarely use the new tee they built on 7. USGA was unlucky with the weather in BOTH Opens. If the Black had played the way it CAN in June, i.e. dry, sunny and quite breezy, +5 would have won, possibly by a lot.

    Posted:
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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members  714WRX Points: 106Posts: 714 Golden Tee
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    On -, @NotTheTrees! said:

    To those who think my beloved Bethpage Black is overrated:

    -You probably didn't listen to the warning sign that basically says you are going to have a bad time if you aren't any good. This is what I am interpreting from your comments. You probably tried to tip the course, in which case yes, it is very long and challenging. But hey, if you play from the whites or reds on a year when they aren't hosting a tournament, the rough and fescue are not bad at all, and the length is more than manageable.

    -Bethpage Black is a Tillinghast masterpiece. Each hole stands out in my mind as memorable and challenging in their own ways. The bunkering is gorgeous and the hole design is stunning.

    -It is a MUNICIPLE course and a **** good one at that. What is a better major venue than one you can try out yourself?

    -Every pro who plays there respects the **** out of it.

    Bethpage is undoubtedly one of the greatest and most challenging tracks in the country, and a terrific major venue at that.
    Rant over.

    Ko
    Everytime the US Open, PGA Championship and Barclays/Northern Trust has been to Bethpage, the course gets into multiple pros head. Ya hear them muttering and shaking their head as play.
    A sizeable portion of the field eliminates themselves due the strategy, difficulty and the rough.

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  • HankshankHankshank Members  1966WRX Points: 507Posts: 1,966 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 30, 2019 #379

    On -, @aabcuue said:

    On -, @johnnypro said:

    Baltusrol and Pinehurst 2.....neck and neck. They both suck.

    Bethpage is so much harder than Balty, it ain't even funny.

    Different courses designed by probably the same architect for different purposes. Balty was designed to test players in tournaments. Bethpage was designed to be tough w/o any idea of hosting tournaments.

    Balty is a somewhat mountainous mature tree lined parkland course w/ splt fairways and mounds.
    Bethpage is an inland sandy hilly open w/ limited trees and mounds. Both course require strategic thinking and are not only drive and wedge play.

    Bethpage is definitely usually tougher as the rough esp. for the US Open is allowed to grow belly button high 4ft off the fairway and thigh high 1ft off the fairway. However during the PGA Championship, rough was much, much lower. Thigh high fescue at worst areas not trambled down. Balty has been 2-4" thick rough and no fescue during the PGA Championships.

    For boring TV golf Pinehurst have no rival major or not major course. Baltusrol and Bethpage are right up there on the list too, but exciting compared to long par four h*ll

    Posted:
  • HankshankHankshank Members  1966WRX Points: 507Posts: 1,966 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @smashdn said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @smashdn said:

    Pebble Beach.

    You should not pull a course that hosts an annual PGA Tour Tournament (ATT Pebble Beach Pro-Am) and make it into a major venue.

    If it is a spectacular course, then why not?

    Just my opinion/preference is all. If I was picking major venues I would not pick PB for that reason alone. And I do agree it is a nice venue and good architecture. I wish they would pull a Coore and Crenshaw style reno on it though. Make it rugged and more natural as it was originally.

    I aint no big fan of PB either. the ocean is cool, but kinda strange with a course where all the exciting holes are on the front 9.
    17 and 18 are not exactly boring but when the course turns left after the seaside holes its like the party is over. Like after 16th green @ AN.

    Posted:
  • aabcuueaabcuue Members  714WRX Points: 106Posts: 714 Golden Tee
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    On -, @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    I think a lot of the courses in the northeast are supremely overrated, but have hosted so many majors that they are considered great. The topography and natural beauty of the area has no real redeeming qualities.

    >
    Balty is built on the side on an old mountain range or rl large hill.

    They can just have courses in good shape for the time of year, have some bunkers, slick up the greens, and grow out the rough without being guaranteed to be over 90*F. I think the reason so many are hosted over there is a summer climate issue more than anything.

    >
    Balty and most of the NorthEast are definitely over 90F in August and many days in May are also. Phils 2005 win featured all 90+F days, some in the 100+F and scores of patrons passing out daily. EMS, ambulances and the Red Cross were are on hand trying to reduce heat strokes and heat exhaustion cases.
    August in NE is as hot as Florida and much of the south.

    I really would like to see more majors played out west, but the climate is a limitation inland from the coast given the time of year of the US Open/PGA. There are some amazing layouts in the inland NW which would curb the heat, but I'm not sure any are worthy of a major. The Seattle corridor has some really good ones, but people don't want to see pros hitting it 285 instead of 325.

    >
    That didn't stop the last Balty PGA Championship in 2016. 285 is what most pros were hitting after the rain. Zero roll and unfortunately lift, clean & .... for some tournament days.

    I'm surprised the old PGA August date didn't feature New England esp. Boston area courses. Thats a great way to moderate the heat.

    Posted:
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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members  714WRX Points: 106Posts: 714 Golden Tee
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    On -, @JD3 said:

    (Quote)
    BPB certainly earned it's status as a major stop. IMO it would also be worth nominating as best course in the world if only the greens had been finished by tillinghast too. Sadly the they were done by a local firm after tillinghast left the project. As is they're very flat and not too interesting being so large.

    Depending on who you believe, read the multiple GD articles, either Tilly consulted in depth, briefly or the superintendent built Black on his own.
    Yes in many opinions, Black's weakest aspect is the greens & easier18th hole.

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members  714WRX Points: 106Posts: 714 Golden Tee
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    On -, @lowheel said:

    (Quote)

    Honestly the sign is there for 1 reason and 1 reason only. If the rough is up and youre playing the wrong tees you will lose 6-8 balls at least. i played with a guy who walked off after 9 because he lost 10 balls.We told him to move up a few sets of tees but he was fuming and refused. there are 3/4 forced carrys just to get to the fairway that some cant even make so its logical it being a muni and trying to speed up play that they would have signs and marshalls stating this

    Actually believe its for multiple reasons:
    1. Scare off the beginners & high handicapers
    2. Lower # of rounds
    3. Reduce complaints when the average round is 5.5hours. You were warned.

    Fyi, played Black after the 2009 US Open when tents were still up & range was closed, you could've modified the sign to state most of the balls in the rough WILL NOT reach the ground!!!
    Had 8-10 shots not reach the ground including around the green. Remember taking waist and thigh high swings to hit out.

    Posted:
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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members  714WRX Points: 106Posts: 714 Golden Tee
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    On -, @Obee said:

    (Quote)
    So it looks like the rating is 78.1 and the slope is 152. Tough course for sure. My home course is 75.7/146.

    Do you think it plays tougher than 78.1?

    No one plays from the Tournament Back tees except during the actual Tournaments.

    Normally the rough isn't as deep as during the PGA Championship and definitely not both US Opens 2002 & 2009. Its definitely different early in May vs. later in the summer.

    Posted:
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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members  714WRX Points: 106Posts: 714 Golden Tee
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    On -, @300yard+ said:

    Torrey ..... So many other iconic and memorable courses that have memorable holes.. I dont think its fair to host a US open .PGA would be Baltusrol..it seems just meeh compared to Medinah...

    After working multiple tournaments, weeks everytime

    On -, @each course, think Medinah is different almost apples to oranges to Baltusrol. Balty is on side of a mountain range, has more elelvation changes and Tilly strategies inc. split fairways and mounding.

    Medinah is just long but that doesn't mean anything to pros after rain. All greens become a dart throwing contest. Pros now hit so long every course needs lengthening between majors or scores will go low unless bad weather occurs.

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  • JD3JD3 Members  5073WRX Points: 407Posts: 5,073 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @aabcuue said:

    On -, @JD3 said:

    (Quote)
    BPB certainly earned it's status as a major stop. IMO it would also be worth nominating as best course in the world if only the greens had been finished by tillinghast too. Sadly the they were done by a local firm after tillinghast left the project. As is they're very flat and not too interesting being so large.

    Depending on who you believe, read the multiple GD articles, either Tilly consulted in depth, briefly or the superintendent built Black on his own.
    Yes in many opinions, Black's weakest aspect is the greens & easier18th hole.

    Whatever the story is I don't believe Tilly would have left them that way. On no other course are his greens pancake flat. It looks almost certain to me he did the foot print for each green...they're classic Tilly shapes...and then whoever finished them just made the actual surfaces pancakes

    Posted:
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