Tournament Play With Hickory?!?

We have a fellow who plays in our "net" tournaments with hickory shafts and pre-WWII heads, Modern ball.

Maybe someone can posit a reason why someone would want to play against a field of 460cc-headed, graphite shafted, game-improved iron playing, 2-ball putter, sand-baggers in a handicapped tournament. If his handicap reflected his use of the hickory I could understand. He supposedly is a 15.0 index and failed to crack 95 in 3 days. I played with him on day #2 and there was nothing in his game that told me he could compete with that index and his equipment.

If one is just playing for the fun of it, why pay all the extra fees for a tournament and the right to finish, at best, tied for 15th out of 17?

I'll take this one boys.

As someone who plays either hickory, or vintage persimmon and blades in local senior touraments, I can say with reasonable assurance,"Because he enjoys playing the auld game. Just because his fellow competitors are playing modern equipment has nothing to do with the price of his tea in China.

Speaking for myself, I find more satisfaction in knowing that the score I post at the end of the day is 100% due to my abilities on that particular round, rather than aided by advantages in technology.

I am not being aloof, or condescending, when I say that, and I have no bias with regard to what clubs anyone wishes to play, but, that is what brings me the most gratification and FUN when I play.

My names not on my bag, golf is not filling my pocketbook, nor, stroking my ego, instead, it is providing me with a passionate pursuit of a lifelong nature.

Do not be too concerned, or shed a tear at his tally, for him the victory is in the journey.

I would add that the hickory chap managed to finish tied for 15th, besting two others that I assume were playing more modern gear. Next time, he may finish tied for 10th.

I've told people, some well wishing, that if I want to play golf with tree branches, I'll do so. As long as it doesn't slow play, or any other infringements on someone else, why would anyone care?

He is doing his own thing I guess. IMHO do your own thing and be happy doing it

I've told people, some well wishing, that if I want to play golf with tree branches, I'll do so. As long as it doesn't slow play, or any other infringements on someone else, why would anyone care?

What people don't account for is that once you start to lose swing speed there's a limit to how far anything is going to travel. You can't make up for nature with gadgetry no matter how hard you try because physics gets in the way. I don't see much difference in distance on average between modern and vintage, it's the outlier shots that get all the attention! The funny part is that you can hit an outlier with just about anything in your hands! The qualifier I have to make is that even my vintage irons are cavity backs as I just don't have the game for blades beyond about an 8 iron/mashie.

I've told people, some well wishing, that if I want to play golf with tree branches, I'll do so. As long as it doesn't slow play, or any other infringements on someone else, why would anyone care?

 

What people don't account for is that once you start to lose swing speed there's a limit to how far anything is going to travel. You can't make up for nature with gadgetry no matter how hard you try because physics gets in the way. I don't see much difference in distance on average between modern and vintage, it's the outlier shots that get all the attention! The funny part is that you can hit an outlier with just about anything in your hands! The qualifier I have to make is that even my vintage irons are cavity backs as I just don't have the game for blades beyond about an 8 iron/mashie.

Very true. According to a chart, I have around a 90 swing speed. Chart says 216 Driver carry, 3W 195, and PW 109. Hits the nail pretty much on the head, with most any clubs, vintage or more modern. Maybe, an occasional crunch, or hard pack conditions make us feel like gorillas, but, truth be told, the ball is only going to fly so far. Human limitation is the factor.

I'll admit hickories are a FEW yards shorter, but score pretty much stays the same. Reason probably, shafts are considerably shorter with hickory.

I don't have a consistent game, so averages are the only way I can measure accurately.

Play well!

PS: I've experimented (inexpensively) with lengthening shafts, shortening shafts, etc. and it mostly ends up the same performance on average. The only good experimenting does is give me hope that I'll hit 300 yard drives. (I say that tongue in cheek.)

I've seen that chart before, Wriggles. Last time I was on a launch monitor my swing speed with driver was right on 85 mph, but I don't launch the ball particularly high so I would think that my carry distance is more like 185-200. From six iron on down the distances look about right (if we're talking carry) when you take an average of the 80 and 90, but it gets a bit muddy for the longer stuff.

At this stage I know enough about my game and tendencies that I'm a brassie or high lofted driver candidate off the tee. Anything with less than 20° of loft is a waste of time off the deck in terms of woods and irons with less than 30° of loft are asking for trouble if not from a tee peg. I know that 5500 yards is about the limit of my comfort zone for course length if I'm to have much hope of scoring well unless the conditions are extremely firm, but then it becomes a real game of mental gymnastics trying to determine what club to pull.

At the end of the day I'm just going to play what I want, where I want, with whom I want and the rest doesn't much matter. There's still too much BS in this game for my liking. The senior crowd has a better handle on this of just get out there and get a bit of exercise, enjoy the camaraderie and have some fun!

Like showing up to a gun fight with a knife? Well maybe but if you win with that knife, oh how sweet it would be!

We have a fellow who plays in our "net" tournaments with hickory shafts and pre-WWII heads, Modern ball.

 

Maybe someone can posit a reason why someone would want to play against a field of 460cc-headed, graphite shafted, game-improved iron playing, 2-ball putter, sand-baggers in a handicapped tournament. If his handicap reflected his use of the hickory I could understand. He supposedly is a 15.0 index and failed to crack 95 in 3 days. I played with him on day #2 and there was nothing in his game that told me he could compete with that index and his equipment.

 

If one is just playing for the fun of it, why pay all the extra fees for a tournament and the right to finish, at best, tied for 15th out of 17?

I'd like to respond to this as well since I think it is me he is referring to and I am pretty sure who posted it.

For the record I shot 94, 97, 94 gross on courses that averaged about 6,050 yards, 70.0 course rating and 133 slope.

The 97 was highlighted by me holing out from 105 yards for eagle only to find out I hit my cart partners ball, I ended up

with a 7 on the hole, and subsequently double bogeying the remaining 2 holes due to a bad attitude. Both of the 94's

included a few 8's and 9's.

The reason I played was to see if I could (I had only played sparingly in the prior 3 weeks or so because my

shoulder was hurting) and for "practice" - hickory tournament coming up. I can guarantee the poster that my index was

15 when I teed off (13.4 now) - I post all rounds played and I know how to do it as the former Handicap Chairman of the

Amateur Tour of America). My handicap is totally the use of hickory bk, and I very well can compete at that index with

those clubs against anybody, and that includes you. The shoulder has turned out to be rotator cuff related.

I also can guarantee the poster that if I play to my potential I can be competitive in the net division of the MPSGA. I can

still hit the ball decently so the distance is no problem (as a matter of fact I can out drive a lot of the seniors

playing in that tournament hitting their modern woods and irons - and I did). I will admit my game was not sharp for the

tournament (especially the second day) and the mishap did not help the matter.

I play the tournaments for the same reason as the poster, for the competition etc and to sharpen up for hickory tournaments.

There are only a handful of players in the tournament that resent someone doing what I did, but I really could care less what

they think. I am going to sign up for some Michigan Publinx Senior Golf Association events in 2017 just because I can, and I

expect complaints when I finish in the money.......

Brian - I have played all over the country (and overseas too) for many years with those clubs and the fee for that tournament

was cheap in comparison.

Wally

Good on you Wally, just go play what you want, when you want, where you want is what I say! To piggyback on the posts above as long as you don't slow or otherwise impede play I don't care if you swing a switch (that's what we call a flexible stick in he south ?) with a Coke bottle tied to it.

This turned out to be a much more entertaining thread than I thought it would.

We have a fellow who plays in our "net" tournaments with hickory shafts and pre-WWII heads, Modern ball.

 

Maybe someone can posit a reason why someone would want to play against a field of 460cc-headed, graphite shafted, game-improved iron playing, 2-ball putter, sand-baggers in a handicapped tournament. If his handicap reflected his use of the hickory I could understand. He supposedly is a 15.0 index and failed to crack 95 in 3 days. I played with him on day #2 and there was nothing in his game that told me he could compete with that index and his equipment.

 

If one is just playing for the fun of it, why pay all the extra fees for a tournament and the right to finish, at best, tied for 15th out of 17?

 

 

I'd like to respond to this as well since I think it is me he is referring to and I am pretty sure who posted it.

 

For the record I shot 94, 97, 94 gross on courses that averaged about 6,050 yards, 70.0 course rating and 133 slope.

The 97 was highlighted by me holing out from 105 yards for eagle only to find out I hit my cart partners ball, I ended up

with a 7 on the hole, and subsequently double bogeying the remaining 2 holes due to a bad attitude. Both of the 94's

included a few 8's and 9's.

 

The reason I played was to see if I could (I had only played sparingly in the prior 3 weeks or so because my

shoulder was hurting) and for "practice" - hickory tournament coming up. I can guarantee the poster that my index was

15 when I teed off (13.4 now) - I post all rounds played and I know how to do it as the former Handicap Chairman of the

Amateur Tour of America). My handicap is totally the use of hickory bk, and I very well can compete at that index with

those clubs against anybody, and that includes you. The shoulder has turned out to be rotator cuff related.

 

I also can guarantee the poster that if I play to my potential I can be competitive in the net division of the MPSGA. I can

still hit the ball decently so the distance is no problem (as a matter of fact I can out drive a lot of the seniors

playing in that tournament hitting their modern woods and irons - and I did). I will admit my game was not sharp for the

tournament (especially the second day) and the mishap did not help the matter.

 

I play the tournaments for the same reason as the poster, for the competition etc and to sharpen up for hickory tournaments.

There are only a handful of players in the tournament that resent someone doing what I did, but I really could care less what

they think. I am going to sign up for some Michigan Publinx Senior Golf Association events in 2017 just because I can, and I

expect complaints when I finish in the money.......

 

Brian - I have played all over the country (and overseas too) for many years with those clubs and the fee for that tournament

was cheap in comparison.

 

Wally

Wow, :good: :good:

Why would anyone complain when you played the hickory in a local tournament ? Unless the club is non-conforming.....

You were not having an unfair advantage against the field, in fact you were having a disadvantage playing the hickory against the modern golf clubs in the field so why should anyone have anything to say about it ?

Wow, :good: :good:

 

Why would anyone complain when you played the hickory in a local tournament ? Unless the club is non-conforming.....

You were not having an unfair advantage against the field, in fact you were having a disadvantage playing the hickory against the modern golf clubs in the field so why should anyone have anything to say about it ?

Because B_tt-heads are everywhere.

I played in my first hickory event last week and had a great time. We were all dressed in era clothing and most guys had original clubs, with a few playing new replicas. I struggled to a score that was probably 10 strokes worse than I would have shot with my moderns, but that was my first ever round with my play set. Looking back, I gave up a lot of strokes due to just plain lack of familiarity of that set. That being said, I am competing in my club's annual match play championship and I'll be using the clubs in my sig. I did talk to a few guys, however, that play their hickory clubs in all of their rounds.

Give me my modern driver and my 2 hybrid and my score will be within a few shots.

I've seen that chart before, Wriggles. Last time I was on a launch monitor my swing speed with driver was right on 85 mph, but I don't launch the ball particularly high so I would think that my carry distance is more like 185-200. From six iron on down the distances look about right (if we're talking carry) when you take an average of the 80 and 90, but it gets a bit muddy for the longer stuff.

 

At this stage I know enough about my game and tendencies that I'm a brassie or high lofted driver candidate off the tee. Anything with less than 20° of loft is a waste of time off the deck in terms of woods and irons with less than 30° of loft are asking for trouble if not from a tee peg. I know that 5500 yards is about the limit of my comfort zone for course length if I'm to have much hope of scoring well unless the conditions are extremely firm, but then it becomes a real game of mental gymnastics trying to determine what club to pull.

 

At the end of the day I'm just going to play what I want, where I want, with whom I want and the rest doesn't much matter. There's still too much BS in this game for my liking. The senior crowd has a better handle on this of just get out there and get a bit of exercise, enjoy the camaraderie and have some fun!

Interesting to look back after a couple of years and see what the impacts of time and infirmity are. Mind you, I have played very little this year due to back trouble, so that will be the overarching issue with my loss of distance.

Last time I was out about 3 weeks ago I was good for 170-175 with a 3W off the tee. Didn't even bother to pull the driver. Looks like that places me at around 80 mph for swing speed at this juncture which was more or less confirmed by pacing off a 6 iron at 131. These distances are with modern clubs, so not sure how that would translate with vintage/hickory.

Wow, :good: :good:

 

Why would anyone complain when you played the hickory in a local tournament ? Unless the club is non-conforming.....

You were not having an unfair advantage against the field, in fact you were having a disadvantage playing the hickory against the modern golf clubs in the field so why should anyone have anything to say about it ?

I recall one guy (All in all, a good guy) beefing at me, that I was playing an illegal club one day on a league day. I had an adjustable iron. He was dead serious. I just ignored the comment.

You tube has excerpts from a Jeeves and Wooster episode, where Wooster is chastised by Jeeves for using an illegal club. The other excerpt shows Bertie playing terribly in a game using the illegal club. His pal borrows it, and plays well with it.

I recall one guy (All in all, a good guy) beefing at me, that I was playing an illegal club one day on a league day. I had an adjustable iron. He was dead serious. I just ignored the comment.

 

You tube has excerpts from a Jeeves and Wooster episode, where Wooster is chastised by Jeeves for using an illegal club. The other excerpt shows Bertie playing terribly in a game using the illegal club. His pal borrows it, and plays well with it.

Some of this rules crap especially in amateur handicap leagues amazes me now days. Hell I have seen people raise hell in scrambles about this and that. I informed one old gripey fart one day that no way in hell a scramble was a stipulated event. The dumba** asked "why?" I told him because to begin with you have your hand on the ball even in the rough and hazards. Needless to say he STFU rather quickly and someone shouted from the peanut gallery "get em Stuey". I offered to play his team 4 on 4 in a down match best 2 balls total for $1000. Bear's son we call "Balls" sorta rolled his eyes. I told him first thing cats like him are scared to play for .025 and Bear and I could beat all 4 of them off our 2 balls playing a down match. Bear is like me old school as heck and is not scared of a down match. But yeah I play for fun now and could give two hoots what clubs someone else plays. But get me mad and I will gamble. Shoot I would enjoy playing with you and your one club. Besides I may have to try it myself

I recall one guy (All in all, a good guy) beefing at me, that I was playing an illegal club one day on a league day. I had an adjustable iron. He was dead serious. I just ignored the comment.

 

You tube has excerpts from a Jeeves and Wooster episode, where Wooster is chastised by Jeeves for using an illegal club. The other excerpt shows Bertie playing terribly in a game using the illegal club. His pal borrows it, and plays well with it.

One of the reasons I do not mess with leagues around here. Always some kind of crap especially when you beat someone. Technically that iron is illegal but ONLY if you make an adjustment during a round. On that note so is most of these modern drivers IF you make an adjustment. To get really anal if say the lead tape comes off one of my clubs during that round it can be non conforming. Now on that same note if it just flew off during the course of normal play and not because I threw it I can put another piece of lead tape on. Yep one can get really technical on the rules especially pertaining to equipment. None of the groups I play with give two hoots what someone plays and that is why I play in them. Personally I give two hoots less if you played a adjustable club or not and adjusted it 20 times on one hole. I would find it hilarious if you beat me with the one club. I would say "well this cat beat me with one club and I had a bag full of sticks"

 

Some of this rules crap especially in amateur handicap leagues amazes me now days. Hell I have seen people raise hell in scrambles about this and that. I informed one old gripey fart one day that no way in hell a scramble was a stipulated event. The dumba** asked "why?" I told him because to begin with you have your hand on the ball even in the rough and hazards. Needless to say he STFU rather quickly and someone shouted from the peanut gallery "get em Stuey". I offered to play his team 4 on 4 in a down match best 2 balls total for $1000. Bear's son we call "Balls" sorta rolled his eyes. I told him first thing cats like him are scared to play for .025 and Bear and I could beat all 4 of them off our 2 balls playing a down match. Bear is like me old school as heck and is not scared of a down match. But yeah I play for fun now and could give two hoots what clubs someone else plays. But get me mad and I will gamble. Shoot I would enjoy playing with you and your one club. Besides I may have to try it myself

Worked for Roy McAvoy! ;)

Wow, :good: :good:

 

Why would anyone complain when you played the hickory in a local tournament ? Unless the club is non-conforming.....

You were not having an unfair advantage against the field, in fact you were having a disadvantage playing the hickory against the modern golf clubs in the field so why should anyone have anything to say about it ?

Technically and I say technically and I stress that word they are deemed non conforming if they have not been submitted and approved. I ran into that when I was going to get my AM status back and play some CGA events with my Macgregor blades. Basically I said screw it and kept things like they are now. I do not worry about stipulated events or comps any more or a legal handicap. I play what clubs I want to play that day. Some folks just want to be a---holes especially if you do well and beat them with "antique sticks" and thanks to the almighty autocratic USGA they can and will throw that "non conforming" card on you. Hey if you play with me and beat me with your hickory stuff so be it. From what I have seen on here on the hickory threads I think there are some that could very well do that.

I know lots of golfers like that, whom will throw the books at you when they're defeated on the golf course. Most of them don't know half the rules in the book.

Some years back, at the regional junior girls events, all the way into the final did someone reported one of the contestant was under suspicion of using a wedge with non-conforming grooves. The potential champion was disqualified, after the wedge in question was exam under the microscope. The girl's father had sharpen the grooves of her old trusty wedge and did not have the means to measure the grooves to make sure every line on the wedge is conforming from the end to end.

Later, this girl had made it to the LPGA. She has sponsors now so she could have new golf equipment every season if she choose.

I recall one guy (All in all, a good guy) beefing at me, that I was playing an illegal club one day on a league day. I had an adjustable iron. He was dead serious. I just ignored the comment.

 

You tube has excerpts from a Jeeves and Wooster episode, where Wooster is chastised by Jeeves for using an illegal club. The other excerpt shows Bertie playing terribly in a game using the illegal club. His pal borrows it, and plays well with it.

One of the reasons I do not mess with leagues around here. Always some kind of crap especially when you beat someone. Technically that iron is illegal but ONLY if you make an adjustment during a round. On that note so is most of these modern drivers IF you make an adjustment. To get really anal if say the lead tape comes off one of my clubs during that round it can be non conforming. Now on that same note if it just flew off during the course of normal play and not because I threw it I can put another piece of lead tape on. Yep one can get really technical on the rules especially pertaining to equipment. None of the groups I play with give two hoots what someone plays and that is why I play in them. Personally I give two hoots less if you played a adjustable club or not and adjusted it 20 times on one hole. I would find it hilarious if you beat me with the one club. I would say "well this cat beat me with one club and I had a bag full of sticks"

 

Some of this rules crap especially in amateur handicap leagues amazes me now days. Hell I have seen people raise hell in scrambles about this and that. I informed one old gripey fart one day that no way in hell a scramble was a stipulated event. The dumba** asked "why?" I told him because to begin with you have your hand on the ball even in the rough and hazards. Needless to say he STFU rather quickly and someone shouted from the peanut gallery "get em Stuey". I offered to play his team 4 on 4 in a down match best 2 balls total for $1000. Bear's son we call "Balls" sorta rolled his eyes. I told him first thing cats like him are scared to play for .025 and Bear and I could beat all 4 of them off our 2 balls playing a down match. Bear is like me old school as heck and is not scared of a down match. But yeah I play for fun now and could give two hoots what clubs someone else plays. But get me mad and I will gamble. Shoot I would enjoy playing with you and your one club. Besides I may have to try it myself

I'd definitely enjoy playing with you too, Stu.

I have two adjustables, a Universal, and a Divnick. Both play well, got to get used to one or the other for a couple games to play at maximum. Only drawback is distance off the tee. Pretty much a 5 iron distance, no matter what you dial lower. Putting is a hit or miss, sometimes good and sometimes bad.

The answer for me is to carry a driver or 3w, and a blade putter, for a total of three clubs. When I just feel like walking light, I'll carry the adjustable and the driver. A ladies' 11 degree BBB works off the turf, too. It's amazing, I've had some remarkably good scores with the two clubs, when I'm putting well with the putter setting. Sometimes, I give myself an automatic two putt anywhere on the green.

The adjustable by itself is excellent for playing off the ladies' tees, or a par 3 course. For traveling, the Divnick collapses to fit into a checked suitcase. I've never travelled on a plane with it, so I don't know if it would attract the attention of the TSA.

I've been playing mostly solo for the last few years, so no one cares.

Had an original 1960's miracle adjustable. Last year, the head exploded in pieces. The club was primitive, no where near the quality of my two modern clubs.

I recommend either the Universal or the Divnick to anyone walking the course, who values the exercise more than the "rules of golf."

Scheduled to play up at OCC Thursday with the Palmetto group. Good layout for me. Won my flight three out of the last four years there with the buttonbacks and Bullseye, sans woods.

Haven’t played hickory since Spring, but, this advent of cooler weather has me itching to get them out.

In the vein of, “ why do you play golf, and, practice what you preach,” I am going to give the sticks a run up the flagpole and see how they wave.

Cool, crisp air, my favorite sweater, and the hickories, I’m a winner no matter the score.

Sometimes it just feels right to march to the beat of a different drum.

Since this thread drifted this direction I'll share a short story.

Around April this year one of the courses I frequent was trying to expand their "Summer League" and a few of the front desk personnel had been trying to talk me into joining. My answer was 'Well, you know what kind of clubs I play in the off-season. If I joined your league I wouldn't be coming in here one day a week and playing my modern set. I'd still be playing a set of clubs over 45 years old or more. How do you think that would go over with the other league players?' Their response was "Oh right, we forgot."

Yup, No Summer League play for me. I also have no interest in playing in an On-Season League with the Snow Flakes. Pretty sure I'd end up in jail for throttling someone on the golf course.

Since this thread drifted this direction I'll share a short story.

Around April this year one of the courses I frequent was trying to expand their "Summer League" and a few of the front desk personnel had been trying to talk me into joining. My answer was 'Well, you know what kind of clubs I play in the off-season. If I joined your league I wouldn't be coming in here one day a week and playing my modern set. I'd still be playing a set of clubs over 45 years old or more. How do you think that would go over with the other league players?' Their response was "Oh right, we forgot."

Yup, No Summer League play for me. I also have no interest in playing in an On-Season League with the Snow Flakes. Pretty sure I'd end up in jail for throttling someone on the golf course.

Scheduled to play up at OCC Thursday with the Palmetto group. Good layout for me. Won my flight three out of the last four years there with the buttonbacks and Bullseye, sans woods.

Haven't played hickory since Spring, but, this advent of cooler weather has me itching to get them out.

In the vein of, " why do you play golf, and, practice what you preach," I am going to give the sticks a run up the flagpole and see how they wave.

Cool, crisp air, my favorite sweater, and the hickories, I'm a winner no matter the score.

 

Sometimes it just feels right to march to the beat of a different drum.

Today, walked 11 holes. I have two modern drivers that I've been using this year, an R11s and an Optiforce 440. I got both from Callaway Preowned, the R11s is a warranty replacement I got last August, and I bought the Optiforce last January. Callaway Preowned doesn't sell junk, guarantees the stuff they sell, sent me the S model free when the R11 developed a rattle. They even sent me a prepaid label to send the R11 back.

Anybody who knows me probably thinks I'm nuts, because I play different clubs all the time. From hickories to fairly modern, I play pretty much the same, even with the adjustable irons. Today, I played the R11s and 5,7,9,A wedge (HotX2's) and an old Bulls Eye putter. I was hitting the R11s well, straight as an arrow, on the 9 1/2 degree setting. Sounded off the tee like Bubba or Rory hit the ball, literally an explosion. Pacing the drives, 200-215 yards, the same as any other vintage driver I play, including hickories. The hickories may be slightly shorter. Shot a 38, with one birdie. For me, an excellent 9, a rare occurance.

Point being, I feel I'd scored the same today, with any era club. Just was in the zone.

Wriggles,

BZ on “ the zone.” Wish we could find a way to bottle that. The funny thing is, for me at least, is that it just shows up, unexpectedly, like a second cousin dropped by for a chat, and, it’s not even Thanksgiving, or, Christmas.

I know when it’s there. Was going to say by a different mindset, but, it’s much more than that, perhaps astrial projection, without the willful intention.

They say it, “ the zone” can be courted like a muse, but, I for one, have much more luck having the muse come to call when writing, than the zone appearing during a round of golf.