Fitting Tall Golfers With NO Chart or Preconceived Ideas!

2456717

Comments

  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭


    I do have one question that is not meant to try and be negative or debunk any theory of longer is better for us tall folks. Why is it that we do not see any tour pros using much more than +1" if it would indeed be a better way? After all they have pretty much unlimited access to the best of the best when it comes to any and all things golf equipment, instruction, fitness instruction, etc???



    I have always found myself looking to WITB and hoping to see the clubs specs of folks like Chris Wood, Stuart Cink, Robert Karlsson, and they all seem to sport around +1" or less. Craig Smith from the UK is the tallest current pro golfer at 6'-8" tall but have not found any info on his club specs.




    I think it goes back to using what you grew up with and/or have become accustomed to, they make it work! The clubs themselves have some limitations, head weight, that are definitely dictating the use of shorter clubs. Club builders heads literally go into overload when they see the swingweight scale go into the E's and sometimes F's. There really are not that many really tall pro's, go to an event and you'll see the norm is about 5' 10". There are a few here and there but overall the tall (6' 3" and taller) pro golfer is about as common as what a distribution height chart shows, not very many. Plus nobody is length fitting tall people with disregard for club limitations. This is why the title of the thread states 'no chart or preconceived ideas'.



    I'm simply stating there is known distance between ones shoulder and the ground. Tall people have much higher shoulders and the smaller increase in arm length doesn't make up for the larger increase in shoulder height. You have to make a choice as to either add length to the clubs or in some manner get your hands down to the club. Personally I think tall people are not being given enough length. +1" just doesn't come close.



    Stewart Cink is interesting, a few years back he was playing 5* up and playing terrible. He went to longer clubs and 1* or 2*'s up and started playing better.



    There used to be a great article on the Titleist website about Karlsson's clubs, think they put him in something like +1 1/4" or + 1 1/2" long and he instantly started playing better. He does play a 37" putter and definitely is not standing too tall when he putts which is quite telling of the real length he likely needs.
  • PCHPCH Sooooo deep Members Posts: 266 ✭✭
    What a great write up! It's always very refreshing to see someone go out and do some experimentation, and I'm glad the results worked out so well for you. I'm the same height (6'4") and have found 1/2" to 3/4" over standard to work the best for me, but I've also noticed the wedges and short irons can get really short.
    [font=times new roman,times,serif]Taylormade M1 440 8.5, Fujikura Atmos Black 7TX 45 Tip 1"
    Taylormade M2 Tour T3, Fujikura Atmos Black 8TX 43 Tip 1"[/font]

    [font=times new roman,times,serif]Taylormade P790 UDI HZRDUS Black 105 6.5 Tip 1"[/font]
    [font=times new roman, times, serif]Taylormade Tour Preferred MB 4-PW DG X7[/font]
    [font=times new roman, times, serif]Vokey SM7 56.14F, 60.12D S400 [/font]
    [font=times new roman, times, serif]Byron Morgan 615[/font]
  • trying2scratchtrying2scratch Members Posts: 1,053 ✭✭
    First, great info and thanks for all the detail and time you have put into this.



    A couple questions:



    Did it take long to get comfortable standing further away from the ball with your wedges and 8-pw irons? Seems like keeping the lie angles std the ball would be farther away?



    Did it take long to achieve center face contact with the longer woods and long irons?



    Any chance you could post some before and after pics of your set up position DTL. With std clubs vs new longer clubs? Maybe wedge, 7i, 4i, driver? Just to visualize the change.



    I understand not everyone likes to post there swing but a video would be great too.



    Thanks again for all the info on your trails.



    Cheers!
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    PCH wrote:


    What a great write up! It's always very refreshing to see someone go out and do some experimentation, and I'm glad the results worked out so well for you. I'm the same height (6'4") and have found 1/2" to 3/4" over standard to work the best for me, but I've also noticed the wedges and short irons can get really short.




    If you're noticing your wedges and short irons are feeling too short it's because they are!! Fitting with a 6 or 7 iron is useless. Those clubs already have sufficient length but will not tell you what your lower length limit is and they are in no way indicative of what it may be.
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭


    First, great info and thanks for all the detail and time you have put into this.



    A couple questions:



    Did it take long to get comfortable standing further away from the ball with your wedges and 8-pw irons? Seems like keeping the lie angles std the ball would be farther away?



    Did it take long to achieve center face contact with the longer woods and long irons?



    Any chance you could post some before and after pics of your set up position DTL. With std clubs vs new longer clubs? Maybe wedge, 7i, 4i, driver? Just to visualize the change.



    I understand not everyone likes to post there swing but a video would be great too.



    Thanks again for all the info on your trails.



    Cheers!




    It took about 4 swings to get used to the ball position being further away. It's not so much the ball gets further away it's that your posture improves so you can stand a bit taller. Ball position is more of an incremental change. I did end up changing lie angles back to pretty close to where they were, so for me it was more about raising my posture.



    For me I have always struggled with striking the ball toe side of center, more so with the shorter clubs. This completely remedied the situation and now making center contact with ease. It's definitely improved center contact with driver. Never realized the combo of an upward angle of attack and a club that's too short created. Now the driver head is in the proper orientation at impact.



    I don't have any pics or videos with the new set up so let me see what I can come up with. I already planned on doing some pics to show how to do the length limits so a couple more in the setup position with a standard, +1" and then what the clubs are now seems like a good idea.
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    edited Nov 16, 2016 #37
    In the other post I spoke of a fellow member at my club who is at least 6' 5" and has very large hands. Here are some pics from this afternoon with his sand wedge, my sand wedge and my 8 iron. His posture is dramatically better!

    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • TLT_DanTLT_Dan TLT_DAN Hampton, ONMembers Posts: 1,067 ✭✭
    rybo wrote:


    I think Dan and I differ in the idea that I want to ensure you have enough length for your proportions especially in the short clubs and what you do with the lie angle after that is not a big deal. Lie angle is just an adjustment to effect ball flight, it does not effect club length. I have no concern of giving a tall golfer a club that is too long, the chances of that are pretty slim to none if you do the high limit length test. And I've never seen a tall golfer with a club that was too long.




    I have fit many to this long wedge and all them are happy. Rybo, what you are doing I assure you is the right direction. I do use math modelled lengths and lies and once the player has a few rounds in they find that their swing plane evens out and directional control has never been better. I'm a firm believer that the set be built with correct math length's and lies - resulting in a very consistent directional control.
  • TLT_DanTLT_Dan TLT_DAN Hampton, ONMembers Posts: 1,067 ✭✭
    PCH wrote:


    What a great write up! It's always very refreshing to see someone go out and do some experimentation, and I'm glad the results worked out so well for you. I'm the same height (6'4") and have found 1/2" to 3/4" over standard to work the best for me, but I've also noticed the wedges and short irons can get really short.




    This is why - if it is math modelled - you work from a more favorite club. So say your 'extended' 7 iron is what fits best - by math modelling you can prevent the short clubs from getting too short. You get to remain in your 7 iron address when playing a wedge. Don't continue to shorten your wedges. Keep them all the same length and lie.
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    edited Nov 16, 2016 #40
    Here is a side by side pic of my setup using my friends sand wedge and my sand wedge. Unfortunately the angle he took the pics from was not the best, much too high and on a bit of an angle.

  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    edited Nov 16, 2016 #41
    Dan,



    While we are going to fit people better then they currently are being fit, I have no issue with changes in hand height. I am only concerned with getting the low length limit figured correctly. After that if you wish to keep a single hand height so be it. If you wish to use some other incrementle change in hand height well that's great too. For us tall people, finding the proper length for the short clubs is absolutely critical.



    I am curious how TLT could possibly account for all the variations in the human body from person to person.
  • Sean2Sean2 #TheWRX (Callaway Trip) Members Posts: 30,826 ✭✭
    With shoes on I am 6'6", and have relatively short arms. Never felt comfortable with any fitting I have had...they all have had different results. I have no clue if the clubs I have are at the right length and lie angle.
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Callaway Rogue[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Callaway GBB Epic 16º/20º/24º[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Callaway Steelhead XR 25º[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Callaway Apex CF16 6-AW [/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Callaway MD3/MD-PM 54º/58º[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Callaway "O" Works #7[/font]
  • 03SMURF03SMURF Members Posts: 764 ✭✭
    Good info in here. Subbing to re-read and hopefully build a test set this winter.
    [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]M3 440 9° - Tensei CK Pro Orange V3 70TX[/font]
    [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]915 Fd 15° - ATMOS Black 8TX
    716 T-MB 3 iron - RIP Tour 115
    714 MB - 4-pw - X100's
    SM5's - 50/08 F, 56/10 (55°) M, 60/08 M - X100's
    Cleveland Huntington Beach #11
    Ball TBD
    4up Stadry[/font]
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    Sean2 wrote:


    With shoes on I am 6'6", and have relatively short arms. Never felt comfortable with any fitting I have had...they all have had different results. I have no clue if the clubs I have are at the right length and lie angle.




    What is your WTF?
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    TLT_Dan wrote:

    PCH wrote:


    What a great write up! It's always very refreshing to see someone go out and do some experimentation, and I'm glad the results worked out so well for you. I'm the same height (6'4") and have found 1/2" to 3/4" over standard to work the best for me, but I've also noticed the wedges and short irons can get really short.




    This is why - if it is math modelled - you work from a more favorite club. So say your 'extended' 7 iron is what fits best - by math modelling you can prevent the short clubs from getting too short. You get to remain in your 7 iron address when playing a wedge. Don't continue to shorten your wedges. Keep them all the same length and lie.






    And at 6' 4" I suspect that 7 iron is very close to your low length limit. Anything shorter then whatever that length is, is likely going to be too short.
  • slantsfloodslantsflood slantsflood Members Posts: 785 ✭✭
    rybo wrote:


    In the other post I spoke of a fellow member at my club who is at least 6' 5" and has very large hands. Here are some pics from this afternoon with his sand wedge, my sand wedge and my 8 iron. His posture is dramatically better!





    This pretty much sums it up! If there are instructors here that don't agree with his setup, then they haven't swung with his body.
    "Patience without understanding"
  • bad coffeebad coffee Members Posts: 42
    Great post. Will take some of your numbers into my wedge fitting in the spring.



    I'm 6'2 as well. I'm more of the science-not-the-art part of the game, so when I got fitted, I expected tape measures and numbers. I walked in and the fitter handed me a club.

    "Hit a few with this one."

    "Now try this one. It's a different flex."

    "Now try this third one."



    He wasn't testing for flex, but length. I went from slouching over the ball, to standing more upright, to backing away from the ball. He knew the clubs were too long at that point.



    I ended up with clubs that were 1 1/4" over my old ones. They just feel GOOD. This week I extended my wedges to the same as my PW. Tomorrow I'll play with them and see how they feel.
  • kenstlkenstl Members Posts: 424 ✭✭
    Interesting topic. I'm 6'4" and recently went with SL irons in 6-sw and one of the biggest things I have liked about the set is playing my 9-sw in 37" length. Now I am wondering if I could even play longer! I do know for me, I have played a shorter driver at 44.5" as when I got fitted, that was the longest length in which I could consistently hit the center of the club face. Probably more of a testament of a flawed swing vs proper length. I am hitting a little shorter on my best on center hits with my driver, but I am hitting a high percentage of fairways. Longer is not always better, it still has to fit your swing, but I really think there is a benefit on the higher lofted clubs for taller players. I am definitely hitting balls tighter to the pin since playing with them this season.
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Wishon 929 4 wood
    SL Sterling Irons 5-LW
    Evnroll Arm Lock Putter
  • MikeskiMikeski ClubWRX Posts: 300 ✭✭
    Great write up.

    I'm 6'2 with a wtf at 38" This past year I experimented with my clubs. Took them to 1 3/8' over standard for the season. Last month I cut 3/4" off to see how I hit the ball. I played with the shorter clubs about 6 rounds now plus range work.

    I do see a difference in ball striking compared to the lengths as I struck it better with the longer length at 1* upright. I shortened them I took them to 2* upright to see if I struck the ball better going down at it more. Having the longer club felt much more easier of a swing and consistent distances. With the club shorter my shots are more inconsistent.

    Next season I want to put some graphite shafts in and experiment with them as far as length and swing speed. Going to put them in 5-pw and leave the gap, 56, 60 steel shafted.



    Whats the thoughts on getting x-stiff graphite shafts and soft stepping them?
  • bigseanc12bigseanc12 Members Posts: 108 ✭✭
    edited Nov 16, 2016 #50
    Wish some of you guys that are doing this experimenting were in my neck of the woods. Haven't found any open-minded club fitters in this part of CA
  • Bunker2Bunker2Bunker2Bunker2 HoselRocketMan Members Posts: 122
    I'm 6'6" and play 1" over. The pic is my 8 iron and thinking I might need a bit of extra length (and yes, I know my posture still needs some work!).
    R15 9.5 (neutral) Black Tie 8M3 X
    17* V-Steel Aldila NV Green 85x
    Apex UT 21 Modus 3 130x
    Srixon Z745 4-P Modus 3 130x
    Vokey 48 * bent to 50* C-Taper 130x, Cleveland Tour Issue RTX 2.0 Raw 54* and 60* Nippon Tour Issue WV115
    Machine Fat Back 38"
    ProV1x/RZN Platinum/Tour D
    Nike FI Impact 2
    Leupold GX3i
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭


    I'm 6'6" and play 1" over. The pic is my 8 iron and thinking I might need a bit of extra length (and yes, I know my posture still needs some work!).




    Oh yes, I would recommend much longer clubs. I've noticed ones chin in relationship to their grip seems to be a good indicator with the short irons and wedges. If the chin is outside the grip then too short, if the chin is over the grip then all is good. In your pic, your chin is well outside the grip, this is due to the excessive bending from the waist you are having to do just to reach the club. IMO your hands are quite low and too close to your body in that pic.



    For the average body proportioned 6' 6" individual, the calculations show a low length limit occurring at 38 5/8".
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    Couple of random thoughts for the morning



    For me this is long past experimentation and I have moved on to the refining stage. Finding the right shafts, maybe a 1/4" adjustment here or there, best lie angle for each club, grips, etc. All of the questions that no one could seem to answer over the years have been answered. Sometimes you just know when something is right and for me this has done it.





    Trying to fit someone with a 6 or 7 iron is like trying to measure ones inseam starting at the knee and then come up with some calculations to maybe have pants long enough to reach the crotch and ankle. Of course no one does that. Find the low length limit starting point and work up from there; it's simple, easy and accurate!





    The idea of longer clubs are harder to control is severely limiting us taller people from being fit correctly. There is a huge difference between providing proper length clubs to the tall individual to fit their proportions and using a club that is too long. Those over the top, inside out swings, steep AoA, thin toe divot swings, etc etc, are more likely a product of using clubs that are just too short for tall people





    I would love to see a 5' 9" fitter/instructor use a wedge that is some 3"- 4" shorter then their WTF measurement! Maybe then they would understand what tall people are dealing with. Hand them a 31" wedge and lets see what happens.
  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members Posts: 7,163 ✭✭
    rybo wrote:




    Couple of thoughts



    Club length does not change with a lie angle change. You can not fix a length problem with a lie angle change. And when a club is bent upright it actually shortens the effective playing length, the distance between the center of the face and the butt of the club and most definitely has an impact on the swing plane becoming steeper. This idea of upright lie angles as a way to accommodate additional length used by the OEM's is borderline malpractice. It's nothing but a bad measurement taken from the wrong spots. Bending a clubhead up or down moves just that, the clubhead, the shaft doesn't magically lengthen and there is no effective length change. Lie angles are the relationship of the sole to the centerline of the hosel from a fixed axis point. Moving a lie angle up or down only moves the clubhead, you will still need the same length from your shoulder and hands to the ground.




    I think you have cause and effect a little confused here, and thinking about part of this in the wrong way. There are no written rules on effect. Lie angle changes handle height for some, and changes sole conditions for some when we talk static setup. If the head is in fact kept at the same orientation when a lie angle is changed, then yes, handle height changes, which absolutely can change the players posture and work much in the same way as a length change would. Length changes effective lie angle and vice versa. This becomes even greater as the club gets longer, simple geometry of a triangle. The issue with many people is that impact consistency goes down considerably when the shaft starts to lengthen, not all people react in the same way. As a result, lie angle changes ARE a viable option for some people to achieve a better posture while keeping a more manageable playing length. While this may not work for you, and I'm not here to dispute that, it does in FACT work for other people. It's something that has to be resolved through testing and trial and error. There again, there are no absolutes in this.




    Short drivers and fairway woods, and tall people....not a good combination. The only consideration that should be made for driver length is can the head be returned to its proper orientation at impact. Too short of a driver with an even or worst yet upward angle of attack is a recipe for disaster. Pretty much guarantees a popcorn fade, with zero chance for a draw. A fairway wood that is too short and the head will be toe down. Lie angle matters and since it can not be changed length is needed to produce a head that can be returned in its correct square orientation at impact. For me I have found driver is best at 46.5" for a GBB and 44.25" and 43.75" for my 3 and 5 woods.




    So impact consistency shouldn't matter at all here? Most will not be able to handle a driver or fairway woods anywhere near that length with any consistency.. There is good reason why you won't see many if at all out there at the pro level.
    TM Supertri V2 w/ Matrix Ozik Code 6.2
    Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB  
    Taylormade P790 2 UDI w/ DG 105R 
    Taylormade P790 3 iron w/ DG AMT White R300
    4-PW Nike VR Pro MBs w/ DG AMT White R300
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,647 ✭✭
    First, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your thought and effort. As somebody that is 6’4” tall, I can perfectly agree with you that most of the irons in particular I feel like I’m hunching well over. Put an 8-iron in my hand and I’m not particularly looking forward the shot. So I’m really hoping that some of my skepticism is proven wrong…****, just for the amount of effort and thought you put in alone makes me want you to be correct.



    And that being said, my gut tells me you’re onto something.



    My concerns are the following:
    1. The MOI of the club
    2. The overall weight balance/distribution of the club
    3. Length and its impact on distance, particularly yardage gapping and directional control


    I’m a big believer in fitting to MOI. Not only has it been very beneficial to me but I have fitted MOI for roughly 100 different golfers, tested diligently against the placebo effect and really believe it works. The issue is that you’re likely to find clubs that are way too hefty. My experience with fitting for MOI is that too heavy with short clubs and wedges usually means fat shots and with longer clubs it usually means thin shots.



    Of course, you could get very light shafts and hopefully find a bend profile of the shaft that fits your swing. But then the club becomes to head heavy and you’re likely to hit high launching and spinny shots.



    I also have noticed how easy and accurately it is to hit Wishon’s Sterling Single Length 5-iron and 6-iron which are built to an 8-iron length. Perhaps it is the club head design, but it feels like it is hard to curve your shot with those shorter clubs. And conversely, if I had very long shafted irons, I think that the curvature would likely be too great.



    My initial impressions is that we may be overemphasizing what ‘good posture’ is. To me, there is a lack of real scientific study on what good posture is. We see a lot of the all time great ballstrikers with the shoulders rolled/hunched over. Jack Nicklaus is a good example:



    instruction-2010-03-inar03_jack_nickaus.jpg



    But at the same time, chiropractors will tell you that the rolled shoulders is not a healthy prospect. So the question is if the shoulders should be rolled as seen by players like Nicklaus or perhaps there is a better way to setup to the ball?



    I think this also begs the question if we have head weights and shaft weights correct to begin with. Perhaps we should be fitting for length first as you prescribed and then have clubs designed, not only from a lie angle perspective, but from a weight perspective…based on the longer length clubs.













    RH
  • 03SMURF03SMURF Members Posts: 764 ✭✭
    With shoes on, I'm 6'3", 39" WTF and 62-62.5" shoulder to floor. My current set was fit to me at +0.5" and 4* up. Anything below 6 iron my common miss is on the toe and often thin. Even my solid shots favor the toe side some. This winter I'm thinking about building some Maltby irons and wedges to experiment with much longer lengths and try to maintain std lie angles. Only thing that worries me is shaft flex. If I hardstep X100's once or maybe even twice I would probably be ok.
    [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]M3 440 9° - Tensei CK Pro Orange V3 70TX[/font]
    [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]915 Fd 15° - ATMOS Black 8TX
    716 T-MB 3 iron - RIP Tour 115
    714 MB - 4-pw - X100's
    SM5's - 50/08 F, 56/10 (55°) M, 60/08 M - X100's
    Cleveland Huntington Beach #11
    Ball TBD
    4up Stadry[/font]
  • scottazscottaz ClubWRX Posts: 1,911 ClubWRX
    edited Nov 17, 2016 #57
    This is me with my wedge. I don't have any before pics since I've been 2" over for a while now. But I can tell you I looked a lot like the Rybo hunched over 1st pic. I'm 6'4".
  • LCPLCP Members Posts: 1,268 ✭✭


    I'm 6'6" and play 1" over. The pic is my 8 iron and thinking I might need a bit of extra length (and yes, I know my posture still needs some work!).




    Looks like 2 more inches are needed there to me. You're horrifically bent over.
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    Golfrnut wrote:

    rybo wrote:


    Couple of thoughts



    Club length does not change with a lie angle change. You can not fix a length problem with a lie angle change. And when a club is bent upright it actually shortens the effective playing length, the distance between the center of the face and the butt of the club and most definitely has an impact on the swing plane becoming steeper. This idea of upright lie angles as a way to accommodate additional length used by the OEM's is borderline malpractice. It's nothing but a bad measurement taken from the wrong spots. Bending a clubhead up or down moves just that, the clubhead, the shaft doesn't magically lengthen and there is no effective length change. Lie angles are the relationship of the sole to the centerline of the hosel from a fixed axis point. Moving a lie angle up or down only moves the clubhead, you will still need the same length from your shoulder and hands to the ground.




    I think you have cause and effect a little confused here, and thinking about part of this in the wrong way. There are no written rules on effect. Lie angle changes handle height for some, and changes sole conditions for some when we talk static setup. If the head is in fact kept at the same orientation when a lie angle is changed, then yes, handle height changes, which absolutely can change the players posture and work much in the same way as a length change would. Length changes effective lie angle and vice versa. This becomes even greater as the club gets longer, simple geometry of a triangle. The issue with many people is that impact consistency goes down considerably when the shaft starts to lengthen, not all people react in the same way. As a result, lie angle changes ARE a viable option for some people to achieve a better posture while keeping a more manageable playing length. While this may not work for you, and I'm not here to dispute that, it does in FACT work for other people. It's something that has to be resolved through testing and trial and error. There again, there are no absolutes in this.




    Short drivers and fairway woods, and tall people....not a good combination. The only consideration that should be made for driver length is can the head be returned to its proper orientation at impact. Too short of a driver with an even or worst yet upward angle of attack is a recipe for disaster. Pretty much guarantees a popcorn fade, with zero chance for a draw. A fairway wood that is too short and the head will be toe down. Lie angle matters and since it can not be changed length is needed to produce a head that can be returned in its correct square orientation at impact. For me I have found driver is best at 46.5" for a GBB and 44.25" and 43.75" for my 3 and 5 woods.




    So impact consistency shouldn't matter at all here? Most will not be able to handle a driver or fairway woods anywhere near that length with any consistency.. There is good reason why you won't see many if at all out there at the pro level.




    Lie angle changes do not change length. This is a fact. A club will measure the same length whether bent from 0* to 90*. Going more upright will only change hand height but this will also in turn cause swing plane to be more steep. Now the tall individual who is almost for sure starting with a club that is too short, hand height changes are an illusion for length change. Length does not change effective lie angle for those starting with clubs that are too short. A club must be a proper length first for any change in lie angle to be effective.



    If these much shorter LPGA women can handle longer drivers I'm pretty sure taller players can. Maybe the worst argument ever. And the point I believe you are missing is the extra length is easier to hit since it allows the head to be in the proper orientation at impact. A toe down fairway wood or driver is a very real issue. I would love to see a Trackman study on a driver that is truly too short with an upward angle of attack. Guarantee it will be a slice! Toe down with upward AOA produces a very open face. How does Rory at a whooping 5' 8" play a 45 1/2" driver? And please don't pull out Sergio, Reed, Fowler etc as a comparison. These guys won't come up to my shoulder. Bubba may be the lone exception as a tall guy playing a shorter then average driver on tour. He also tees it insanely high.



    So as a tall individual I can get longer pants, bigger gloves, bigger grips, larger shirts, but I'm expected to play with clubs that are literally several inches too short. Every other sport in existence I can get properly sized equipment for my size, just not golf......why? It has made things easier, not harder. I don't have to manipulate the clubs like when they were too short.





    Curious, how tall are you?
  • LCPLCP Members Posts: 1,268 ✭✭
    rybo wrote:


    Trying to fit someone with a 6 or 7 iron is like trying to measure ones inseam starting at the knee and then come up with some calculations to maybe have pants long enough to reach the crotch and ankle. Of course no one does that. Find the low length limit starting point and work up from there; it's simple, easy and accurate!



    I would love to see a 5' 9" fitter/instructor use a wedge that is some 3"- 4" shorter then their WTF measurement! Maybe then they would understand what tall people are dealing with. Hand them a 31" wedge and lets see what happens.




    Great commentary!

    rybo wrote:


    Trying to fit someone with a 6 or 7 iron is like trying to measure ones inseam starting at the knee and then come up with some calculations to maybe have pants long enough to reach the crotch and ankle. Of course no one does that. Find the low length limit starting point and work up from there; it's simple, easy and accurate!



    I would love to see a 5' 9" fitter/instructor use a wedge that is some 3"- 4" shorter then their WTF measurement! Maybe then they would understand what tall people are dealing with. Hand them a 31" wedge and lets see what happens.




    Great commentary!
  • ryborybo Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭
    RichieHunt wrote:


    First, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your thought and effort. As somebody that is 6’4” tall, I can perfectly agree with you that most of the irons in particular I feel like I’m hunching well over. Put an 8-iron in my hand and I’m not particularly looking forward the shot. So I’m really hoping that some of my skepticism is proven wrong…****, just for the amount of effort and thought you put in alone makes me want you to be correct.



    And that being said, my gut tells me you’re onto something.



    My concerns are the following:
    1. The MOI of the club
    2. The overall weight balance/distribution of the club
    3. Length and its impact on distance, particularly yardage gapping and directional control


    I’m a big believer in fitting to MOI. Not only has it been very beneficial to me but I have fitted MOI for roughly 100 different golfers, tested diligently against the placebo effect and really believe it works. The issue is that you’re likely to find clubs that are way too hefty. My experience with fitting for MOI is that too heavy with short clubs and wedges usually means fat shots and with longer clubs it usually means thin shots.



    Of course, you could get very light shafts and hopefully find a bend profile of the shaft that fits your swing. But then the club becomes to head heavy and you’re likely to hit high launching and spinny shots.



    I also have noticed how easy and accurately it is to hit Wishon’s Sterling Single Length 5-iron and 6-iron which are built to an 8-iron length. Perhaps it is the club head design, but it feels like it is hard to curve your shot with those shorter clubs. And conversely, if I had very long shafted irons, I think that the curvature would likely be too great.



    My initial impressions is that we may be overemphasizing what ‘good posture’ is. To me, there is a lack of real scientific study on what good posture is. We see a lot of the all time great ballstrikers with the shoulders rolled/hunched over. Jack Nicklaus is a good example:



    instruction-2010-03-inar03_jack_nickaus.jpg



    But at the same time, chiropractors will tell you that the rolled shoulders is not a healthy prospect. So the question is if the shoulders should be rolled as seen by players like Nicklaus or perhaps there is a better way to setup to the ball?



    I think this also begs the question if we have head weights and shaft weights correct to begin with. Perhaps we should be fitting for length first as you prescribed and then have clubs designed, not only from a lie angle perspective, but from a weight perspective…based on the longer length clubs.



    RH




    let me start with what I think is the very obvious one. In the picture of Jack's setup, his chin is in the middle of his hands. Find me a tall player with short clubs who can attain this position, its nearly impossible. He is also not bent very much at the waist. This is the setup us tall people want, but can't attain unless we have longer clubs.



    I do not have a MOI machine, its the one machine I don't own. Honestly I never got all that caught up in it. Still adding weight anywhere along a club increases MOI. So using a heavier grip and a bit lighter shaft and normal heads I would suspect these longer clubs would have quite similar MOI's to shorter clubs.



    Again using lighter shafts and a bit heavier grips seems to make the overall balance of the club work. I am finding 95 grams to be something of a sweet spot for myself. A little bit heavier and I definitely notice it. The gentleman in the pictures loved a 38"/66* wedge that had no weight removed from a 50* loft head and a 95 grams shaft. It only had a midsize grip too. He loved the bit heavier head weight feel of it, while I thought it was a bit of a sledgehammer. So things like how a club feels as always are going to be very subjective to the individual.



    My distances with the clubs have been within a few yards of what they were. Interestingly with the lob wedge I lost 5 yards going longer, the rest of the clubs have been maybe 3 or 4 yards longer. I am pulling the same clubs for the same distances as before. But what needs to be understood is what the golfer does with a club that is too short. The club head comes into impact toe down. After a few hits of seeing the ball go right (right handed golfer) they consciously or subconsciously start closing the face more. So now they have a club at impact that is toe down and a bit closed. Well a closed clubface is delofted. So that 46* pitching wedge now becomes 44* or so but this is just to get the ball on the right line. Give them a proper length club and the club can now use it's loft properly. Then the supposed fix for this is making it more upright, which really is only making the situation worst since it will effectively make the club play shorter.. They have a club that is already too short, and bending a club upright makes the distance between the center of the club face and the end of the handle closer. The correct fix to all of this craziness is to simply provide the tall player with a club of proper length for their body proportions.
Sign In or Register to comment.