Left shoulder in backswing

During the backswing should the left shoulder rise in conjunction with the arms lifting?

As a reference point, if one is standing straight up and I'd call this a neutral position. And if the left shoulder lifts as in shrugging one's shoulders, I'd call that rising.

I think my left shoulder rises and to compensate for that I drop my arms on the downswing and get an in to our path with late arms.

Thanks

As a follow up, lifting the left shoulder can create the appearance of a flatter shoulder plane even in the spine angle hasn't changed.

Left shoulder works down, not up.

Yes- I understand that the left shoulder moves closer to the ground on the backswing.

I did get a PM that highlighted important point that when the left arm comes across the body, the range of motion can be increased if the shoulder elevates.

My question is whether it is better to keep the shoulder neutral and have a shorter swing or let the left shoulder elevate and achieve a bigger turn.

Thanks again

No

As a follow up, lifting the left shoulder can create the appearance of a flatter shoulder plane even in the spine angle hasn't changed.

This is what you mean, right? If so you are in good company.

Thanks Monte, can you be specific as to which is better:

1) keep the shoulder neutral and have a shorter arm swing; or

2) Let the left shoulder elevate and achieve a bigger turn

Shorter armswing.

As a follow up, lifting the left shoulder can create the appearance of a flatter shoulder plane even in the spine angle hasn't changed.

 

This is what you mean, right? If so you are in good company.

 

Hogan had a very unique upper body pivot. He did have a flattish shoulder turn relative to his spine but he he was also quite a bit more bent over at the top than he was at address. This countered the effects of the flat shoulder turn somewhat. The worst thing you could do is have a flat shoulder turn and have an upright posture at the top of the backswing. You are then more in a position to hit the ball at waist height like in baseball but the ball is on the ground in golf.

As a follow up, lifting the left shoulder can create the appearance of a flatter shoulder plane even in the spine angle hasn't changed.

 

This is what you mean, right? If so you are in good company.

 

Good company indeed.

 

 

 

 

Moe Norman

 

 

 

and George Knudson

 

7:38

Left shoulder works down, if it doesn't enough shoulder turn can be flat.

What about the carl lohren move ... left shoulder forwards??

What about the carl lohren move ... left shoulder forwards??

If we are tilted forward 20 degrees and elevate left shoulder, isnt that forward?

Seems OP pretty much answered his own question. No don't shrug your shoulders. Like Monte said the left should should work down in the back swing. I'd never want to shrug it as that would restrict my movement and slow me down and not to mention make it harder to hit the ball. It's a habit it seems, and a bad one, unless you enjoy the out to in compensation that you do which probably results in a controlled fade. There's a false sense of power doing that move, and maybe that's why you like it, but when you figure out the proper inside out path (it's an arc really) (try hitting the lower inside quadrant of the ball).

ditto

Seems OP pretty much answered his own question. No don't shrug your shoulders. Like Monte said the left should should work down in the back swing. I'd never want to shrug it as that would restrict my movement and slow me down and not to mention make it harder to hit the ball. It's a habit it seems, and a bad one, unless you enjoy the out to in compensation that you do which probably results in a controlled fade. There's a false sense of power doing that move, and maybe that's why you like it, but when you figure out the proper inside out path (it's an arc really) (try hitting the lower inside quadrant of the ball).

 

elevating the left shoulder about an inch, releases the scapula to extend an additional 10 inches or so in BS. Try it.

 

Some actually think you have abnormally long arms when you do this. LOL

 

 

 

Since when is using scapula in punching or batting, a false sense of power?

Increasing levers(leverage) multiplies force. Lag is about leverage, not arcs and planes.

 

It worked for Ben Hogan, George Knudson and Moe Norman. No golfers swept the inside of the ball better than these guys.

 

 

We can always tell those who use that extra scapular extension, from elevated lead shoulder. Impact is delayed; due to extra extension and therefore

hips and shoulders will be more open at impact, ;trail elbow more bent; than those who turn shoulders 90 degrees to spine.......... with short arms. Other effect of short lead arm =EE, and flip and getting stuck.

Think it depends on your ability to time your arms and pivot. You either have one subservient to the other or time them together and/or time them on the downswing. If you fail to time them all sorts of issues can result.

But clearly elevating your arms gives more potential for power and a wider arc. Just a fact. Whether people can successfully use that fact...

Think it depends on your ability to time your arms and pivot. You either have one subservient to the other or time them together and/or time them on the downswing. If you fail to time them all sorts of issues can result.

 

But clearly elevating your arms gives more potential for power and a wider arc. Just a fact. Whether people can successfully use that fact...

IMO, its no different than throwing a baseball. We use our scapula(both) and dont give a conscious thought to timing, scapula or arms or pivot for that matter. Its by feel.

Focus is on the ball in our hand (external). Scapula and arms take our hand where we intend ball (hands) to go...with torso and lower body ie pivot setting up subconsciously to support, with equal and opposite reaction force.

Geezus. So much thinking. Just work that left shoulder to your right foot. Down and right.

Thanks Monte, can you be specific as to which is better:

 

1) keep the shoulder neutral and have a shorter arm swing; or

 

2) Let the left shoulder elevate and achieve a bigger turn

Shoulder down and you should be able to turn plenty while keeping it down. If not something is wrong.

Thanks Monte, can you be specific as to which is better:

 

1) keep the shoulder neutral and have a shorter arm swing; or

 

2) Let the left shoulder elevate and achieve a bigger turn

 

Shoulder down and you should be able to turn plenty while keeping it down. If not something is wrong.

Watch video,where Monte hit balls from his knees. He elevates his left shoulder in order to use his scapula for shoulder turn.... has to, because shoulders cannot rotate 90 degrees to spine (lead shoulder down)

without pelvis sliding backwards and cant slide pelvis if we are on our knees.

Use scapula as Ben Hogan and Monte did and we dont twist our spine.

quote: When people experience pain in their spine it often occurs in the lumbar region. This is because the lumbar spine is connected to your pelvis, which is where most weight bearing and body movement takes place. Typically this is where people tend to place too much pressure, such as when lifting up a heavy box, twisting to move a heavy load, or carrying a heavy object. These activities can cause repetitive injuries that can lead to damage to the parts of the lumbar spine

. https://www.depuysyn...atomyofthespine

My left shoulder moves in response to the swinging of the club back and over my right shoulder. For mew the response is for the shoulder to move down and back under my chin. I just let it happen.

Steve

My left shoulder moves in response to the swinging of the club back and over my right shoulder. For mew the response is for the shoulder to move down and back under my chin. I just let it happen.

 

Steve

The lead shoulder is under the chin either way.

If your chin rubs against your shoulder in BS, then you elevated your lead shoulder. Ben Hogan said he wore a hole in his golf shirts where his chin stubble rubbed against his shirt in the BS. Cant do that if the shoulder goes down in BS.

Thanks Monte, can you be specific as to which is better:

 

1) keep the shoulder neutral and have a shorter arm swing; or

 

2) Let the left shoulder elevate and achieve a bigger turn

 

Shoulder down and you should be able to turn plenty while keeping it down. If not something is wrong.

 

 

Watch video,where Monte hit balls from his knees. He elevates his left shoulder in order to use his scapula for shoulder turn.... has to, because shoulders cannot rotate 90 degrees to spine (lead shoulder down)

without pelvis sliding backwards and cant slide pelvis if we are on our knees.

 

Use scapula as Ben Hogan adn Monte did and we dont twist our spine.

 

 

 

quote: When people experience pain in their spine it often occurs in the lumbar region. This is because the lumbar spine is connected to your pelvis, which is where most weight bearing and body movement takes place. Typically this is where people tend to place too much pressure, such as when lifting up a heavy box, twisting to move a heavy load, or carrying a heavy object. These activities can cause repetitive injuries that can lead to damage to the parts of the lumbar spine

 

. https://www.depuysyn...atomyofthespine

His left shoulder isn't working down?

Thanks Monte, can you be specific as to which is better:

 

1) keep the shoulder neutral and have a shorter arm swing; or

 

2) Let the left shoulder elevate and achieve a bigger turn

 

Shoulder down and you should be able to turn plenty while keeping it down. If not something is wrong.

 

 

Watch video,where Monte hit balls from his knees. He elevates his left shoulder in order to use his scapula for shoulder turn.... has to, because shoulders cannot rotate 90 degrees to spine (lead shoulder down)

without pelvis sliding backwards and cant slide pelvis if we are on our knees.

 

Use scapula as Ben Hogan adn Monte did and we dont twist our spine.

 

 

 

quote: When people experience pain in their spine it often occurs in the lumbar region. This is because the lumbar spine is connected to your pelvis, which is where most weight bearing and body movement takes place. Typically this is where people tend to place too much pressure, such as when lifting up a heavy box, twisting to move a heavy load, or carrying a heavy object. These activities can cause repetitive injuries that can lead to damage to the parts of the lumbar spine

 

. https://www.depuysyn...atomyofthespine

 

His left shoulder isn't working down?

Hogan is tilted forward about 20 degrees and it appears left shoulder moves down, from caddie view,

but for Ben Hogan, he had to raise left shoulder toward his left ear in order to rub his shoulder against his chin.

Try it yourself. Move your left shoulder down and still try to rub your shoulder against your chin. Cant be done

Why are we talking about Ben Hogan and his chin? Most golfers don't rub their shirt against their chin. Why should they? For most golfers the left shoulder goes down and back.

Steve

Why are we talking about Ben Hogan and his chin? Most golfers don't rub their shirt against their chin. Why should they? For most golfers the left shoulder goes down and back.

 

Steve

The topic is left shoulder in BS. Rubbing the chin against the shoulder is simply a clue, not a cause but a result of elevating the left shoulder in BS.

If at least three of the greatest ball strikers ever, elevated their left shoulder in BS, doesnt that make it relevant?

Old school? Unapologetically, YES. Not to mention, Jack Nicklaus, Lee Trevino and Sam Snead who did the same.

Agree that most golfers today including Tiger Woods and Justin Rose, follow the St N tilt/Foley/Como method of left shoulder down(90 degrees to spine), causing tilting of spine and sliding of pelvis.

Suggest that is one reason, there is so much EE and spine injury today.

When you say elevate, do you mean as in a shrug, or more protraction?

Thanks Monte, can you be specific as to which is better:

 

1) keep the shoulder neutral and have a shorter arm swing; or

 

2) Let the left shoulder elevate and achieve a bigger turn

 

Shoulder down and you should be able to turn plenty while keeping it down. If not something is wrong.

 

 

Watch video,where Monte hit balls from his knees. He elevates his left shoulder in order to use his scapula for shoulder turn.... has to, because shoulders cannot rotate 90 degrees to spine (lead shoulder down)

without pelvis sliding backwards and cant slide pelvis if we are on our knees.

 

Use scapula as Ben Hogan adn Monte did and we dont twist our spine.

 

 

 

quote: When people experience pain in their spine it often occurs in the lumbar region. This is because the lumbar spine is connected to your pelvis, which is where most weight bearing and body movement takes place. Typically this is where people tend to place too much pressure, such as when lifting up a heavy box, twisting to move a heavy load, or carrying a heavy object. These activities can cause repetitive injuries that can lead to damage to the parts of the lumbar spine

 

. https://www.depuysyn...atomyofthespine

 

His left shoulder isn't working down?

 

 

Hogan is tilted forward about 20 degrees and it appears left shoulder moves down, from caddie view,

but for Ben Hogan, he had to raise left shoulder toward his left ear in order to rub his shoulder against his chin.

 

Try it yourself. Move your left shoulder down and still try to rub your shoulder against your chin. Cant be done

I don't have to try anything. Here's a Dtl for you since you can't see it clear as day from face on. He increases his spine angle as shoulder works down.

And his chin you keep referring to moves down as well as he increases spine angle.