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The Distance Thread (Really looking at your distances)


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*Flame Suite On*..... Its GolfWRX after all.....

 

 

This thread, is being brought up because "yes" I felt offended for attacking other about peoples distances. But I will try to justify why I feel this way and why I do what I do.

 

This will probably get long, so bear with me, but I truly feel this, if you spend the time to read this thread, I truly feel you may get something really really worth it out of it.

 

 

Distances, YES I feel distances is extremely important and the chase of distances is worth it. With that, there are many facets to distance, how its obtained and the diminishing returns to obtaining distances. More so the effects of marketing to the misleading of distance and why it can cause worse golf than better while ultimately still agreeing that distance is KEY!

 

Ok so first and foremost, there is averages of distances, What separates a pro from an amateur, is their ability to manage distance. Im going to start very very basic,

 

I think 90% of all golfers know their PW distance, meaning at one one time they can pull their PW and hit it and know exactly how it will fly (left and right, up and down) and then the yardage lets say within a couple of yards. Im going to use myself as an example. my PW is 125 yards at any one time I can fully control the flight direction and distance of the PW. If I had a par 3 that was 125 yards, with all things being normal conditions, I would say with "confidence" that I can hit this green 10 out of 10 times. With that, I would Assume that the same 90% of golfers would feel the same in regards to their distance. Yes, I have hit 100 yards PW, and I have hit 150 yard PW, with that those are due to errors or condition changes, but all things normal 125 yards.

 

Now how do I know this, because of practice, routine, fitting and all that jazz, Loft, shaft, swing was all setup to provide this consistency, with that, many of times the lies, the location of this shot does not make it difficult to apply this shot, not matter where it really is.

 

Now diminishing returns.....as the clubs get longer "the effects" get more difficult along with how the shot is applied. Lets use a 5iron now. I hit my 5 iron about 180 yards, again all things equal, I know the flight, Now let me be realistic, If I had a Par3 that was 180 yards and all things being equal, can I say with confidence that I can hit the 5iron 10 out of 10 into this Par 3, NO I cannot, even though I may have the same confidence as my PW realistically, its a diminishing return in distance. The longer the shot the more variables that apply and the higher quality of shot it demands/require. I can say maybe 50% or 5 out of 10 confidently hitting this green.

 

Finally moving to Woods..... This is where this bar moves all over the creation, I hit my driver average total about 255, I will say this, In no way is my Driver in any realm of my PW, I cannot hit it on point to that distance, I cannot hit it on point in that direction or dispersion and if I had a Par 3 that was 255, I would not guarantee probably 25% would be on the green but I could say that it could be long and short, As I have hit shots 200 with a driver and 300 with a driver.

 

With this, above most likely holds true to the majority of players and even tour pro's, the diminishing returns on longer distances affects even the bombers like Jason Day, Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson etc..... I highly doubt even they are in full control of their distances at the top of their bag in comparisons to the bottom.

 

 

The point is, when average comes into play, It is important, to look at how you calculate and average your distances. I am sure people do not practices their 3wood, the same way they do their PW for accuracy of distance. Mostly I would assume the practice facilities are difficult to track shots over 200 yards with that range balls are not reliable, But everyone see the 50/100/150 yard flags and feels very confident about those distances and their practical practice is legitimate. Same with the driver, likely they are just banging the ball and estimating their distances.

 

Part 1 over, Continuing part 2............

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Part 2 the Strong debate.

 

First off I want address something I made a HUGE mistake about.

 

"Fliers" from SGI, GI clubs, THIS IS TOTAL BS....sorta in my opinion.

 

Why do I say this, because I believed in fliers and say X clubs had fliers and there is NO way that a club is at fault for a difference in distance as the club NEVER changes in the swing, the only thing that does really Change is "THE SWING".

 

So people use SGI and complain about fliers, what they dont realize is that, those fliers are likely either an optimal strike with an optimal swing, Or a shot on the face of the club, that provided a more than optimal shot than they are used to. They have settled on a less than optimal distance for them due to inconsistency in their strike, but once in a while catches a perfect strike that provides them optimal distance that they are not used to.

 

How do I know this??? Because I am an idiot and refused to look at this until recently and try to blame a club, for my lack of consistent strike. When I caught an outlier shot, I thought it was the clubs fault and not mine.

 

So when taking your average iron shots, you need to accept the facts are you hitting optimal are you striking center and is this your correct distant. Many times have I played with players that have 150 yards par 3 ask me what club I am playing (even though we are playing totally different clubs and swing is way different), I tell them an 8iron and they say ok Ill hit a 7iron, Even though I know on any given day their 7iron goes 140 max, but because they hit 1, 7iron 150 they are going to use the 7iron......People are NOT realistic about their distance more so realistic about their quality of strikes to quantify their distances.

 

Irons out of the Way, Woods,

 

How do we get distance with woods..... limited.... I am sure people get more verification of distance with their irons and gappings because they hit it much more on the course and at the driving range.

 

The only way to get generic distances, is using a Launch Monitor and or on the course, walking/lasering/GPS distances. but again, this is limited to Max 14 shots, per round (for the normal human being that plays and practice in a normal way, if you are lucky to hit more shots, or have a practice facility, I am not talking about you)

 

1) LM's have been known to be all over the creation, I have made MANY post explaining why these number just dont add up. With that, LM's at stores have really know Idea getting their validity. Sure if you work with a coach and get fit on a Trackman, you will be able to see distances, but guess what.... This is "optimal" potential, sorta like your GHIN, One. you go on a machine, get in a rhythm and hit balls to your hearts content, it spits out a number, and you take it for face value. But can you take it to the course and do it at any given time? (refer to my initial post) I doubt it.

 

2) On course, measurements, Have you guys really honestly, taken your collective drives, total, measured from where the ball landed and the tee box, lasered it and come up with a number? Well I have, in 1 round I hit 12 drives, went out of my way to laser back my shots, guess what my average total was? 237 yards, OH, but I have a swing speed of 102, with a 1.5 smash, I should have 153 mph ball speed, so I should average about 265 carry..... sure... but certain holes just dont allow for that max potential, while others are near 300 drives..... With outlier bad drives, OB and all that mess, I just cant justify my average or my go too drive as 265, As refereed to my initial post, if I had a 265 yard par 3, with as confident as I am with my driver, I just cant justify that I would hit the green 10/10 times..... if all things being normal.

 

 

Apply diminishing returns on anything not normal, course conditions, weather conditions, off the tee, off the deck, lies etc. saying X distance is your distances, is just spitting out numbers unless you REALLY REALLY know your numbers.

 

OK Part 3 over, part 3 continued

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Part 3, what are your distances, and your realistic distance, that you have the maximum confidence,

 

List them here, and keep track of them and then take them out and validate them and see how good they come back......I say do this to help you evaluate your real game and see if it really makes any difference in your course management and your outlook of your distances. More so to validate, if you are getting all you expected out of your equipment!

 

Totals-

 

LW - 75 full swing, but hardly take any full swing,

SW - 95 full swing, when I have control of my spin

GW - 110, my go to scoring club, try to lay up to this specific distance as I feel this is my strongest distance

PW - 125, normal every day swing

9iron - 135 normal every day swing

8iron - 148 if all is safe, no danger, if I am at that 150 marker and the flag is in the middle, no hesitation club.

7iron - 160 again no danger, its safe shot, very comfortable with this distance

6iron - 170 normal swing, I would say the average is just a tad bit longer, 172 but if playing conservatively, I would club up

5iron - 180-185 normal swing, I like to hit these longer Irons harder, so I have a lot of reserve, I can get 185 out of them but I would say reliability drops a lot.

4iron - 190-195 again I am going to put variance like the 5iron as I will admit my control is nothing like a PW, and I can hit some solid shots as well as some ugly shots.

5wood - 200-225 a new club I added as of January. Getting used to this distance, but this is the distance I hope to reach, I know I have hit some crap shoot shot at 180 and also 230 yards...

3wood - 200-250 but realistically if I had to pick a number around 230 on any given day with all things being normal. But honestly I have no idea....to be totally truthful, but with that if things are completely safe I would try to reach a green in 2, 250 yards for the hell of it.

Driver - Again another range 230-300 middle for me 255 what my average and reliable distance is how far I can get off the tee and figure out an iron or a wood into the green......to say I can hit 300 means nothing if I cant hit the green for a chance at birdie any way.......

 

 

 

Anyways, This is NOT a call out but a chance to evaluate your distances, again this might help to realistically review your distances so you can really figure out how you can score better, be it course management, distance control, lack of distance control, quality of strike etc.

 

 

There are many long long hitters, but the diminishing value applies, to all human beings and for those that feel they are Longer than normal, this does not exclude you from these variables. So if you can hit it great, but I hope your game is played with these realistic situations in mind!

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Interesting topic. I agree with your assessment when using the range. Most range balls are totally unreliable for distance, sometimes even at 100 yds. My main goal on the range is line. If I start the ball where I want it to start and make good contact, I've achieved my goal. Distance I learn on the course. That's why I like to play alone on weekdays so I can try shots that I don't always get to practice at the range. And, do so with my playing balls.

 

Straying from the distance thing for a sec. Another thing I do that I see NO ONE ELSE doing is use playing balls when working on my short game. I am of the belief that to know how your touch shots will behave, you HAVE to use your playing balls. Range balls rarely check like they should and rollout is always different.

 

I may be strange, but I play for accuracy all the way through my bag. When I am hitting my driver on the range, it is at a specific target and the goal is accuracy and quality of strike. With those two, distance will be there.

 

My carry distances with a stock swing (SS 108) are:

 

Dr 10.5* - 255 carry to pitch-mark.

3w 13* - 235

7w 20* - 210

4i 24* - 190

5i 27* - 180

6i 30* - 170

7i 34* - 160

8i 38* - 150

9i 42* - 140

PW 46* - 130

GW 50* 110

 

BT

 

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
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Interesting topic. I agree with your assessment when using the range. Most range balls are totally unreliable for distance, sometimes even at 100 yds. My main goal on the range is line. If I start the ball where I want it to start and make good contact, I've achieved my goal. Distance I learn on the course. That's why I like to play alone on weekdays so I can try shots that I don't always get to practice at the range. And, do so with my playing balls.

 

Straying from the distance thing for a sec. Another thing I do that I see NO ONE ELSE doing is use playing balls when working on my short game. I am of the belief that to know how your touch shots will behave, you HAVE to use your playing balls. Range balls rarely check like they should and rollout is always different.

 

BT

 

What a perfect example just chipping, I agree with you, I go to a private course and they have range balls on the chipping green, I never use them but I see plenty people using them, Its totally different, If they do that their, what about the actual driving range? How are they taking their driving range seriously?

 

again this is in no way me being a jerk, but honestly wanting people to evaluate to HELP!

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Exactly. I practice a lot more than I play. Probably close to 400 range shots to each round as time permits. I sometimes wonder what it would be like to practice and play daily. How good could one become with this type of routine? I play to a 10 pretty much everywhere I go. I would like to get lower, but time is just no available. So I focus on quality of practice focusing on line and strike.

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

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Exactly. I practice a lot more than I play. Probably close to 400 range shots to each round as time permits. I sometimes wonder what it would be like to practice and play daily. How good could one become with this type of routine? I play to a 10 pretty much everywhere I go. I would like to get lower, but time is just no available. So I focus on quality of practice focusing on line and strike.

 

BT

 

Im on the other end of the fence, with my young daughter and another on the way, I am limited to practice time and play exclusively, my scores are getting worse and its expected, because of confidence and ability is deteriorating, It is what it is, life is catching up, I dont plan to be a pro golfer, nor expected to be, just want to play the best that I can with what I have, The best way to do that is to evaluate what you have now and try to maximize it without inflating my ego......

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Seems like a carry over convo from the 3 wood thread.

 

While I think the OP has good intentions, this topic has been flogged to death. While most people on WRX claim to be able to hit the ball incredible distances, at the end of the day, that's on them.

 

I can claim whatever distances I want in a thread, the reality is, I have to play the game with a level of honesty in the real world.

 

So, when a guy posts in a thread he can carry X club X distance... That's great. Maybe he can, likely he can't.

 

It really doesn't matter. Not to me, hopefully not to the next guy, and usually, by calling someone out, often fills what might be a useful thread with a bunch of rhetoric and flotsam.

 

Now, personally, my distances are almost identical to Ri_Rednecks. Do we play the same? Maybe, but maybe not.

 

It's an individual game at the end of the day. No team, no we. So if I guy wants to claim a crazy claim, likely he knows it's not realistic, and he has to sleep on that. We can't be someone else's conscience, or moral compass.

 

The score card tells all. And that's also why I keep my friends' actual scores on my card...lol

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Seems like a carry over convo from the 3 wood thread.

 

While I think the OP has good intentions, this topic has been flogged to death. While most people on WRX claim to be able to hit the ball incredible distances, at the end of the day, that's on them.

 

I can claim whatever distances I want in a thread, the reality is, I have to play the game with a level of honesty in the real world.

 

So, when a guy posts in a thread he can carry X club X distance... That's great. Maybe he can, likely he can't.

 

It really doesn't matter. Not to me, hopefully not to the next guy, and usually, by calling someone out, often fills what might be a useful thread with a bunch of rhetoric and flotsam.

 

Now, personally, my distances are almost identical to Ri_Rednecks. Do we play the same? Maybe, but maybe not.

 

It's an individual game at the end of the day. No team, no we. So if I guy wants to claim a crazy claim, likely he knows it's not realistic, and he has to sleep on that. We can't be someone else's conscience, or moral compass.

 

The score card tells all. And that's also why I keep my friends' actual scores on my card...lol

 

It is as it was derailed far enough and the point of arguing was not with the spirit of the topic, with that, we can argue, debate, claim all we want in this thread and it wont affect the intentions of the original topic.

 

It really doesnt matter what people "claim" the biggest issue I see is those that claim numbers unknowingly or negligent due to misunderstanding how they got the yardage in the first place. Im not asking for peoples numbers to compare, I want them to write them down and evaluate them for themselves, be it in a stupid GolfWRX thread or at home on a piece of paper, but as long as they truly know what it is and can play what truly works for them is more important to me than how long you actually hit it.

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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I'm going to be lazy and not list my distances here (75 yards is a comfortable full 58 degree wedge shot) but suffice it to say that I agree with the idea that knowing your own average distances (especially carry distances) is going to help your game more than trying to max out your distance with every strike. It would seem obvious but it seems there are few players, outside of really good ones, that actually follow the practice of your premise.

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I agree with the range theory. I don't care how far the ball goes, especially if greens do not line up with your club's distance. I typically pick 1 green out and always use that green for aim. For me, I rarely go over 70% of my SS once I get a 9-to-LW in my hand. I am known to hit a 100yd low draw 9 iron. I can hit a LW 75yds, but don't even use it at 50yds out on the course. When I am within 125yds, I expect to hit the green and what I always strive for. So I really club down and work on the efficiency with my scoring irons.

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I look at iron distances as being a range for each club. I have my "nutted" or top carry distances for each iron up to 6 iron. After that, my accuracy/control starts to get suspect. I'm realistic since I'm around an 11-12 cap.

 

My 9 iron, maxes out at 150 yards, but will always get at least 140. So if I have a 143 yard approach, I'm pulling 9 iron.

 

If I have a 137 yard approach but there's a front bunker or water, I'm going to hit 9iron still. Chances are I will only get 140-145 yards with my strike anyway, and possibly get a little spin back.

 

Regarding the OP's comments about GI clubs causing hot fliers by themselves, I mostly agree. However I've hit a few short irons/wedges that have flown over greens due to a skulled strike(thinned line drive). Same poor strike with a more traditional club most likely would not have allowed such a poor strike to travel as far.

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Distances based on good contact:

Ping G25 Driver - 245

Titleist 906 3W - 220t/205fw

Callaway GBB Warbird 5 - 195

Ping G25 20h - 185

 

Mizzy JPX 825 Pro irons:

6i - 160

7i - 150

8i - 140

9i - 130

Pw - 120

Gw - 100-105

Lw - 70

 

I probably need to add a 5i and a 54 or 56 wedge, but overall I'm happy with my current setup and distances.

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So I switched clubs in the middle of last year. My lofts are way different than they were previously, I am using the same shafts, just shimmed into my new heads. The range I practice on has crappy range balls, and there is quite a bit of elevation change on it. So therefore the range is out for practicing distances other than the 110 and in or so yardages.

 

My 6 iron down I have managed to hit enough shots, and work with friends when the course was empty to find flat shots and chart a few of my distances. I know the 6 iron down, I know my full swing, full swing draw and full swing cut. I know my hard as I can swing distance on my 7, 8, 9, PW(Nothing any longer am I consistent enough to need/have/try this). I know my knockdown distance on my 8 iron down, knowing these can be really helpful. As you can see I have some work to do getting some more yardages.

 

For instance.....The 9th hole at my club is a medium Par 4. I hit an OK drive on the right center of the fairway. The pin was in the back of the green and just over the green is death(O.B) My distance to the flag was one yard longer than my full out 8 iron swing. I also knew my mishit with that club and swing would still get to the front/middle of the green.

 

With my wedge and down I am pretty good with my 3/4 and knockdown shots and yardages. Trying to take a 7 iron and hit a knock down I am not as consistent in my yardage control, which is why knowing your strengths and distances can save you a ton of strokes.

  • Driver - Ping G430 Max 10k - Ventus Black 6X | Ping G430 LST 10.5 - Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI TX
  • 3 Wood - Taylormade 300 Mini 13.5 - Ventus Purple X
  • 5 Wood - Ping G430 Max - Ventus Purple X 
  • 7 Wood - Ping G430 Max - Ventus Purple X | 4 iron - Srixon ZX4 MKII - Axiom 105X
  • 5 - GW Cobra King Tour - Axiom 105X
  • SW - Cleveland RTX6 55* - Fuji Tour Spec 115X | LW - Vokey SM9T 60* - Fuji Tour Spec 115X
  • Putters - Odyssey #7 Knuckle Neck Proto | Odyssey Jailbird Versa Microhinge - Odyssey Tank DBOdyssey Jailbird Ai-One
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I'm very realistic about my distances. That's one of the reasons I purchased GameGolf. If anything, it really opened my eyes with regards to conditions and mishits. I've learned to start taking into account wind, slope (uphill/downhill), elevation and firmness of fairways and greens. It's also opened my eyes as to how inconsistent many of my hits are.

 

However I will not stand there for 3 minutes over a shot wondering if I'm going to hit my 8 iron 148 or 132 or 154 and drive myself crazy. My 8 iron (35 degrees) is about 148 and I base my iron selection based on that number along with conditions. If I mishit it, so be it. Out comes the wedge :-)

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What seems to get lost in the 3w thread that the OP posted heavily in, and now this one is that there are plenty of good golfers who know how far they hit it and make consistent contact. In the 3w thread it was like it was unfathomable that someone one could hit a few good three woods in a row.

 

And now here, maybe some guys are super consistent with a PW and struggle with 5irons. That's ok. But to lecture people for pages on end about this theory to guys you've never met is just patronizing. There are people out there who can hit 10 consecutive 4 irons a similar distance

 

This is an enthusiasts site. There are plenty of good golfers who visit this site. Many of the clueless ams do not visit this site. Also threads about distance tend to draw posts from longer hitters.

 

This is all because guys claimed to hit 3 woods 250 in the air. I don't average that, but I can name 3-4 guys at my club who do. Juniors who murder the ball and play off sub 5 indexes. That's one club in a small golf province in Canada. But we're going to flip out because guys on an enthusiasts site with 200k members say they can do it

Srixon ZX5 w/PX Hzrdus Red 60

Srixon ZX 15 w/PX Hzrdus Red 70

Tour Edge C723 21* w/PX hzrdus black 80

Titleist T150 4-AW w/PX LZ 6.0

Titleist Jet Black 54/60 with PX LZ 6.0

Deschamps Crisp Antique 

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What seems to get lost in the 3w thread that the OP posted heavily in, and now this one is that there are plenty of good golfers who know how far they hit it and make consistent contact. In the 3w thread it was like it was unfathomable that someone one could hit a few good three woods in a row.

 

And now here, maybe some guys are super consistent with a PW and struggle with 5irons. That's ok. But to lecture people for pages on end about this theory to guys you've never met is just patronizing. There are people out there who can hit 10 consecutive 4 irons a similar distance

 

This is an enthusiasts site. There are plenty of good golfers who visit this site. Many of the clueless ams do not visit this site. Also threads about distance tend to draw posts from longer hitters.

 

This is all because guys claimed to hit 3 woods 250 in the air. I don't average that, but I can name 3-4 guys at my club who do. Juniors who murder the ball and play off sub 5 indexes. That's one club in a small golf province in Canada. But we're going to flip out because guys on an enthusiasts site with 200k members say they can do it

 

Hey Jeff, Dont get me wrong, I am pissed and being a little cry baby, I posted that straight off in my initial post. :taunt:

 

But I did have the intent to share my reasoning why I post specific responses in specific threads, This type of thread is a specific, With that I am highlighting a bunch of points.

 

This was not a target and not intended to bring out post but to be one of those, PSA (public service announcements) To realistically review your distances and accept a couple of points.

 

1) Again I dont disclaim anyone's distance at all, I disclaim if they are getting them accurately.

2) Is anyone surgical, enough to say their driver is 255 yards carry, or I average about 255 yards with my driver. Compared to a 125 yard PW, again, the way data is collected the limited variables from longer shots and shorter shots, and the demand for a quality shot to maintain a 125 yard PW vs a 255 yard driver is a little more "forgiving"

3) SGI/GI hot spots are NOT the clubs fault, its the players fault, they may have applied an unintended shot, but try to use the hotspot theory as an excuse. More so I know I have hit a screaming 150 yard LW, is that a hot spot? LOL

4) Launch Monitors as the inconsistencies and the information provided to those that just dont understand how they work, Set Smash Factors, unrealistic roll, unrealistic total distances, wrong settings, 10,000 elvation etc. Trajectory Optimizer, should be a very good base point to know your "Potential" maxed out distances, from there you can strive to meet or exceeds those numbers and then either create consistency and or excel those number on an LM, But to see 100mph Swing Speeds with 147 mph ball speeds with 265 carry 300 total is just heart breaking, either for the unknowing player that is about to drop $500 for a driver that promises something that it will never ever deliver. Thats is just sad.

 

 

 

Last BS point, this is not about the 250 guys, Its actually the 270+ guys carry.... that just seems a little absurd, but not impossible, those guys are beast, I can believe 250 as I have watched a couple of players do it, but 270+ carry, there were about 3+ guys claiming that...... :stink:

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Exactice, when I was at callaway being fit for WRX. With driver my first 17 swings measured after warming up there was a low of 249yds and a high of 277. Furthermore 14 out of 17 were between 265 and 275. So 83% of my drives were within 10yds of each other

 

With 7 iron I hit 19 consecutive shots that were between 155-167 with 13 of them being between 158 and 163

 

With hybrid I hit 8 out of 10 shots between 204 and 211 with the outliers being 200 and 220

 

This is counting all mishits, this is from my raw track man data they sent. And I was probably the 4th best player there if you include Zak. I'm not even that good

 

So I know how far I hit, as I'm sure others do

 

 

Srixon ZX5 w/PX Hzrdus Red 60

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Here is my personal Theory,

 

I use this tool to start,

 

http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

This will let me chart my potential consistent numbers

 

I then have this chart screen shotted on my phone,

 

LPGA

lpgatourstats.png?resize=680%2C514

PGA

pgatourstats.png?resize=680%2C503

 

 

I get my base, Swing speed and start plugging, (Im using the PGA Tour Smash, but I can easily use the LPGA smash and probably get even more realistic if my ego is not too strong for the day)

 

 

Driver - 1.5 Smash X Current Swing Speed = Potential Ball speeds + Preferred Spin (1700, 2000, 2500)

3wood - 1.48 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 3000 RPMS ( Generically speaking - club x 1000 rpms)

5wood - 1.47 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 4000 RPMS

4iron - 1.43 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 4000 RPMS (club x 1000 rpms)

5iron - 1.41 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 5000 RPMS (club x 1000 rpms)

6iron - 1.38 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 6000 RPMS (club x 1000 rpms)

7iron - 1.33 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 7000 RPMS (club x 1000 rpms)

8iron - 1.32 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 8000 RPMS (club x 1000 rpms)

9iron - 1.28 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 9000 RPMS (club x 1000 rpms)

PW - 1.23 Smash X Current SS = Potential Ball speeds + 10,000 RPMS (club x 1000 rpms)

 

 

From there I work my Trajectory, and this should give me a really good target to start shooting for, this should allow me to realize if I am getting optimal strikes and maxing out my swing speed and quality of strike, These are target distances and if there are variances it means I am not striking it the best.

 

From there I dial it and if think I want to improve my speed, I just work the numbers up.

 

This is where I personally feel realistic numbers are key, When I read 270 yard Carry 3woods and plug it in, the numbers are astronomical to be able to obtain something like that, thats why is just so unbelievable thats all.... because of how I trained myself, to think, again those person claims are not wrong, its my fault for training myself to think a certain way.

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Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Exactice, when I was at callaway being fit for WRX. With driver my first 17 swings measured after warming up there was a low of 249yds and a high of 277. Furthermore 14 out of 17 were between 265 and 275. So 83% of my drives were within 10yds of each other

 

With 7 iron I hit 19 consecutive shots that were between 155-167 with 13 of them being between 158 and 163

 

With hybrid I hit 8 out of 10 shots between 204 and 211 with the outliers being 200 and 220

 

This is counting all mishits, this is from my raw track man data they sent. And I was probably the 4th best player there if you include Zak. I'm not even that good

 

So I know how far I hit, as I'm sure others do

 

Again Jeff, please dont misunderstand me, I am NOT calling out those that really know what they are doing, Im doing it for those that are reading from the shadows, or that are to ashamed to post, or those that just dont understand, We are on an enthuesist site, were people are coming to learn, which I have spent the last 3 years doing myself. Again think of this as a (PSA) sorry lack of a better terminology.

 

I want to share a different view, wealth of knowledge I have acquired over the last couple of years and if it helps someone, achieve better numbers, than it was worth it. I will take all the criticism, flaming, if it helps someone improve and their outlook on their game, Thats about it.

 

I have never posted with ill intent, unless provoked and until I am told to stopped or banned for posting the way I do, I will continue to do so. Thats about it, I truly truly truly enjoy just helping others. As many done the same for me. If my information is wrong I will be the first to correct it. And know this, its just a different view point that someone may not see it from so wrong or right its just different.

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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OP,

 

I think another important factor regarding (and related to) distances is the total length of the course with relation to scoring.

 

My distances are really close to yours - maybe 5 yards off or so. If I am playing a course at 6200 and below I am really confident and comfortable. Some long irons necessary here and there but also some opportunities to score.

At 6300 to 6500 I am starting to get out of my comfort zone so to speak. Way to many long irons going in. And hitting 3W into a par 4 isn't fun for me. For me a 450 yard hole is a par 5 not a 4.

Anything over around 6500 and forget about it.

I played in a tourney last summer and for some really dumb reason they put everyone under 60 out from the tips. A nice 6700 plus course. I shot in the high 80's and struggled to get that score. Sooner or later if you are constantly swinging for the fences because you feel that you need that extra yardage to give you a chance, something is going to go wrong. Funny thing - the winning score was a 74 from a young guy who hit the ball a mile and even he was complaining about the distances. I only made one bragging par - a 230 yard par 3 over water. I laid up with a PW to the ladies tees which put me a solid GW out. I managed to hit the Gap close and parred it. My playing pard was laughing at my using my laser to hit the ladies tees until I putted in. He made a 5 on the hole after going in the water, taking a drop in the drop area, and having a hard time from there. : )

 

So, my sum is simple. Distance isn't just how far someone hits it consistently. It should also be a determining factor for which tees a player takes on comfortably. I have played with long hitters. One guy I played with consistently hit his 4 iron about the same distance I hit my driver. He had the full game too BTW. Just an amazing player and fun to play with/watch. He was a former Web.com Tour player who decided to use his engineering degree to make a living because, in his words, he could not make enough on tour to pay the bills. He shot a tidy 67 from the tips that day (At Eaglebrook, a really hard local course) that could have been a 65 but he had a couple of hiccups. Guess having distance doesn't guarantee success in this hard, hard game.

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It's an interesting topic and one that is greatly debated across the forum. I tend play everything in 5 or so yard ranges. I understand that I'm not going to hit a ball 162 yards two times in a row. I know, through fittings and hitting on LMs that if I hit 20 6 irons, 15 or so of them will be in a 5 to 7 yard range. The other 5, who knows. Those are generally the gross mishits. The big left pull (most common for me), the occasional chunk an inch behind the ball, the extremely rare cut/slice. For me, the most important part is managing those 5 swings and understanding what those 5 misses are doing.

 

I rarely practice. Like hardly ever. I would say I hit range balls with the sole intention to practice 1 time per 20 rounds of golf played. Golf is a hobby for me. It's a way to get outside, a way to enjoy the day, be active and escape work/life/issues/etc. I enjoy playing but don't like repeatedly pounding golf balls. So I chose to play. When I do practice, or warm up before the round, I honestly don't focus on distance in any way, shape or manner. I focus on lines as others have stated. I may aim at a green that is 100 yards away with a 7 iron. Watch it to see how it flies over the green and if the shape and trajectory are what I am looking for. As for short game practice, which I have been spending more practice time doing. If I am at a private club or a smaller facility which doesn't have a bunch of range balls covering the green, I will pull out some of my own balls from the bottom of my bag to practice with. If the green is covered with range balls, I just use those. But, instead of watching the range ball roll out and really trying to get it close to the hole, I pick landing spots. I work on different type of pitches and chips (flop shots, lower high spin shots, bump and runs, etc) and I pick a small landing spot and focus more on getting the ball to land where I want it than getting it close to the hole. Being able to control the trajectory of a pitch or chip, imo, is absolutely critical to successful short game shots. So while the range balls may not spin and may bounce/roll out past the hole, I can work on at least pitching the ball and getting it to land in a specific spot. Now range balls may pop a little more off the face than a pro V, but, the difference is less than with the spin.

 

As for distances, below are the 5 yard ranges where I am comfortable taking a full swing with a given club. Anything more or less than these 5 yard windows require some type of a modified swing (like a 3/4 swing or choke down a couple inches, etc). Side note - I recently bought an entire new set. The numbers below are with my old setup as the new irons and driver have different lofts and such which I haven't dialed it.

 

D - 270-275 Like the OP said, kind of hard to perfectly gauge. But If there is any hazard 290 or less, I am laying up. I carry my driver 260-265. I certainly can and have hit it 290+... but I'm not expecting it. A 'normal' swing, which is mostly imperfect, is putting me out there 270-275. A great swing and Ill be 285-290. Those are once a round, not the average.

3w - 265-270. It's replaced my driver. I only hit it off the tee.

5w - 240-245

3i - 215-220

4i - 205-210 (I don't actually carry a 4i, I just control my 3i when I need to)

5i - 195-200

6i - 185-190

7i - 170-175

8i - 160-165

9i - 150-155

PW - 140-145

50* - 130 - 135

54* - I don't take full swings with it often. It's like a 120 club when I do. It's rare that I use this from more than 105 yards and at 100-105 yards it's like of a 3/4 swing

58* - Used exclusively under 50 yards.

 

 

Putter - I only feel comfortable from less than 2 feet.

Driver: PXG 0311 Gen 4 9*
3w: Taylormade Sim 15*
Hybrid: Titleist 816h 21*
Irons: PXG 0311 Gen 5 T 4i thru GW 
Wedges: Vokey SM9 54*, 58*
Putter: Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2.5

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This thread will probably get flamed into oblivion, but I really do think it's useful. I am also certain most people have no idea about their true loft vs. carry distances. (Oh, and thinking of distances in terms of anything other than loft and carry is useless.)

 

What do I mean by loft and carry?

 

• 46º carries 144

• 42º carries 156

• 38º carries 168

 

...and so on.

 

At this point, iron lofts are so "non-standardized" that going by the number on the bottom of the club is useless. For example, my Cobra Forged Tec 6-iron is 26º. My Adams CMB 6-iron is 30º. This is like comparing a strong 5-iron to a regular 6-iron—the two clubs are massively different and will have different carry distances as a result.

 

Anyway, knowing your precise carry distances is critical as you become a better player. If you've got a back pin and you're between clubs, you can hit the shorter club with confidence and also know that you're pretty much committing to a solid two-putt par rather than trying to stuff the longer club in there with an "easy swing."

 

You don't realize this until you start threatening par, but it's so easy to give up a couple of shots per round if you don't know precisely what to expect from your clubs!

Callaway Fusion 9º •• Matrix 75M4 X
TM 2016 M2 3HL 16.5º •• Aldila NV 2KXV Orange 65X
Callaway Apex 20º •• PX Evenflow Black 80HY X
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TM MG 50º •• PX LZ 5.5
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it also depends on the shot you're hitting. fades don't go as far as draws

 

They go the same distance given equal launch conditions. Personally, I find a fade goes farther than a draw with a driver.

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TSi2 (18, A1), Tensei AV Raw White 85TX

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I don't agree at all to your theory. My 3 wood carry # on solid strikes is 250, my 3 iron is 210. I can hit my # with my 3wood 9/10 times at a minimum, but with my 3 iron I'd drop the odds I hit my # to about 7/10. Both of these clubs when hit solid will have very similar dispersion (carry). I'm much more confident hitting my 3wood consistently than my 3 iron.

 

Also, the bs about distances on here is so overblown. I live in the PNW where it is constantly cold, wet, windy, no roll, and heavy air. If I play in TX, CA, Colorado, etc. on a hot day, I'd add 10-15 yards carry and about 20 more of roll (off the tee) to my distances. I went to school in CA and it was stupid how much further the ball goes there. Those that run to the PGA Trackman averages also completely ignore this. Those #s that are always posted here do not take into account weather, temperatures, altitude, conditions, etc. The PGA tour intentionally plans tournaments to be played in the best possible weather, hence why these early season events tend to be in Hawaii, LA (although the storm screwed that up!), etc. The guys play in pristine conditions most of the time, so those trackman #s understate what actually happens on the course.

 

I never understand why people get so obsessed about distance on the internet. There are so many factors involved (including how honest that person is being) that it is essentially irrelevant. All that matters is how far you need to hit the current shot you're standing over, and picking the proper club for that shot given the current conditions.

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I agree with everything the OP said, but I also think that at least 50% of us on here are good enough golfers that we already know whats up in terms of what you call "diminishing returns". I would call it more of an increase in the standard deviation, as the length of the club goes up, the consistency goes down, and deviation from the norm or average yardage goes up. Personally, I think its best to play in terms of "ranges" ie I know my 6 iron goes 165-175, but averages 170. Knowing ranges is useful because it helps with your situational strategy.

 

For example I recently had a 173 yard shot to a flag that was in the way back of the green. I hit a stock 6 iron (170 avg), but I pured it 175ish and flew over the green into trouble. In retrospect I should have to take into account how well I was striking it that day, the trouble that was long, and played a choked up 6 that probably would have gone 170. If I was having a mediocre ballstriking day it would have been pin high haha. It's hard being an amateur...

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There are indeed a lot of factors that go into distances attained.

 

Playing pain free definitely plays a role.

Wind and weather. Especially the temp.

Course conditions.

Elevation with regard to sea level.

Proper equipment fitted to player's swing.

Consistency of striking the sweet spot.

 

I think that's one of the things I hate about the range balls because, while they will give you an idea of how it feels and whether or not you are hitting the sweet spot, they don't give anything even close to an accurate portrayal of your distances. One local range has "limited distance balls" that go some 10% less minimum.

 

So....

 

I go into any given round knowing that my 7 might be a little less than "normal" or perhaps even a little more. Every round is a new adventure in figuring out my distances of the day.

Callaway Epic with Fujikura 62s in 45.25 set at 12.5*
Taylormade Rbz FW (17*)
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Callaway Steelhead 4-PW w/KBS 90s
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