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Rory Calls Muirfield Decision "Obscene...."


Forged4ever

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During his Presser yesterday, Rory gave his opinion on the Members' vote for the admission of Ladies as full members at Muirfield. The Tour let it be known that if Ladies were not given full membership privileges, Muirfield would be dropped from the Open Championship rotation.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/mcilroy-muirfields-male-only-policy-was-obscence/?cid=Email_ThursdayNL_20170316

 

I dssagree-

 

One, This has absolutely nothing to do with a Female/Lady being "worthy," competent enough or deserving of full membership, as Rory and others try to position this issue by his stating all of the female Leaders in the business world-

 

This is not even on the table as THE two most competent Individuls, and they are Super Stars, not Stars, that I have ever worked with, and one I am fortunate enough to be working with one presently, are females.

 

Simply put, from my perspective and experience, a Woman knows better than a man when to bury her ego for the good of the group, engagement or the greater good.

 

They have teeth, can get edgy when appropriate and know how and more importantly when to use those teeth and edges, better than most men that I've ever met, including and especially Male Super Stars.

 

For me it is about having a place that a bunch of guys want to go and be around other guys-

 

There are Women only Clubs and organizations and this is their right to have these just as I see it as a Guy's right to have a "Male Only" Club if they so choose.

 

There is a caveat here-

 

While I agree with Men Only Clubs, I do not agree with and would not tolerate business being conducted in these clubs.

 

Now I understand that just because one does not bring a brief case, cell phone or discuss business matters in the Men's Card Room or whatever the 19th hole is called or anywhere else on the club grounds for that matter, that just the fact that I am able to invite a potential client to my club while a female competition does not have this option(they actually do at every Top-Tier Club in town) is a potential advantage that a female may not have, however I do not discuss business at the club and I and the other leaders in our club also do not tolerate someone breaking this rule.

 

I just don't agree with framing the issue as "if one is not permitted to apply and enjoy full membership privileges then they are looked at as inferior."

 

For me and most of the guys that I know who agree with me, this never ever comes in to Play-

 

We just think that is a guy wants to go to a place where there are only other guys, or a women wants to go to a club or organization that is female only, that's ok-

 

#2, I have never ever responddd well to threats or "do this or......," LMAO

 

When this ocurs, simply put, I become a dick :)

 

Please do me one favor guys-

 

You're welcome to state your thoughts and opinions on either this issue or on Rory's comments, however PLEASE keep your comments on the issue(s) and do not try to be witty, a silver knight or dick and attack another member personally because I will shut this thread down quicker than a female vote at Muirfiels if we cannot act as decent adult males :)

 

Thanks much for dropping in?

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends,

RP

In the end, only three things matter~ <br /><br />How much that you loved...<br /><br />How mightily that you lived...<br /><br />How gracefully that you accepted both victory & defeat...<br /><br /><br /><br />GHIN: Beefeater 24

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I honestly don't know where I stand. I support a company's right to start a business and sell to only who they choose. There are women only gyms and etc

 

But from a personal standpoint, I just don't care if women are at my golf club and don't see how it hurts. It's an iconic course that I'm sure many would love to play

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I totally agree with the above sentiment. If women (or ethnic minorities, religious organizations, etc.) are permitted by society to form exclusionary groups, why aren't men? Doesn't it seem that this policy directive to become more inclusive actually has distinct exclusionary consequences? In a weird twist, men seem to be the ones excluded on this one.

 

However, looking at the other side of the coin, I can totally understand how a minority power group would desire these policy changes. As long as there are remaining vestiges of patriarchy and gender preference, it can be argued that equality does not exist. And further, I don't blame a woman or minority power group for wanting to pursue that equality.

 

That being said, I don't believe Murfield or the R&A was approaching this situation with anything resembling gender equality. It was ultimately a business decision. Nothing more.

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I honestly don't know where I stand. I support a company's right to start a business and sell to only who they choose. There are women only gyms and etc

 

But from a personal standpoint, I just don't care if women are at my golf club and don't see how it hurts. It's an iconic course that I'm sure many would love to play

 

Muirfield is not a business but a members club that benefits from zero taxation on profits(surplus) as well as some other benefits

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It's 2017. Discrimination of any form has no place in a modern civilised society. I find it odd that any group of supposedly educated people would want to exclude another group purely based on the happenstance of gender, race or sexual preference.

 

I am happy that pro golfers like Rory aren't afraid to voice opinions unequivocally. I hope he will be a fantastic embassy's or for the modernisation of the game, and I am also pleased with my ex bosses stance at the R&A (Martin Slumbers) for pushing for change.

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Simply put, from my perspective and experience, a Woman knows better than a man when to bury her ego for the good of the group, engagement or the greater good.

 

 

In a way though, isn't this exactly what the men at Muirfield just voted to do? I'd imagine that at the end of the day, despite the results of the vote, more members than not would agree with you and prefer that Muirfield stay men only. (This was the second vote after all, and I'm pretty sure the first vote more accurately reflects how members feel). But they were willing to swallow a bit for the greater good of the club, deciding that the benefits of staying in the Open rota outweigh the benefits of staying men only. Now you can certainly argue that they shouldn't have to make that choice, but to me they're putting the club first which IMO makes more sense than continuing to refuse to allow women.

 

And really, if Augusta started letting women in, you've got to figure it's going to happen everywhere.

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I honestly don't know where I stand. I support a company's right to start a business and sell to only who they choose. There are women only gyms and etc

 

But from a personal standpoint, I just don't care if women are at my golf club and don't see how it hurts. It's an iconic course that I'm sure many would love to play

 

Muirfield is not a business but a members club that benefits from zero taxation on profits(surplus) as well as some other benefits

 

Ah ok thanks for that clarification. In that case I would probably lean towards saying I think they should allow women then

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Any private club, golf or otherwise, should benefit from freedom of association and be allowed to tailor their charter to allow/disallow whatever membership group(s) they wish. Of course that freedom is not free from consequence and Muirfield decided they would rather admit female members than be excluded from the Open rota; ultimately a business decision by the voting members.

 

Personally, it would not make a difference to me but I think Muirfield should not have been precluded from hosting the Open over this as it was a longstanding tradition of the Club and there are plenty of facilities that offer membership to both sexes.

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  1. Muirfield is a private club...and if they choose to have a policy of "men only" then as they are private they should have that right.
  2. The R&A is the European equivalent of the USGA. As they are the current ruling body of golf over there, and they are the ones who sponsor and run the Open Championship, then it is their right to elect to not play the contest on a course with rules and policies that they do not agree with and cannot support.

They are having the same issue with the next summer Olympics in Japan. The course they elected to use for golf does not allow female full time membership...and the Olympic Committee will have to either tolerate that...or find another venue in Japan.

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Completely believe private clubs should be able to be exclusive and completely agree if an organization doesn't want to have a public event there, the club has nothing to gripe about.

 

And Richard, as a decent adult male I've always believed if a private club of two women decided to offer me membership I would be bound by the banner of equality to accept. ;-) (Sorry, but could not help it).

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I think this is one of the first times I haven't agreed with you Richard!

 

Without getting too deep into it, I don't think there is a reason to exclude people based on gender, race, religion, and /or sexual preference. I think that people that are in a traditional position of 'power and privilege' should be open to welcoming people with less.

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It's 2017. Discrimination of any form has no place in a modern civilised society. I find it odd that any group of supposedly educated people would want to exclude another group purely based on the happenstance of gender, race or sexual preference.

 

I am happy that pro golfers like Rory aren't afraid to voice opinions unequivocally. I hope he will be a fantastic embassy's or for the modernisation of the game, and I am also pleased with my ex bosses stance at the R&A (Martin Slumbers) for pushing for change.

But discrimination occurs in many forms all the time. Much of it in the name of equality.

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  1. Muirfield is a private club...and if they choose to have a policy of "men only" then as they are private they should have that right.
  2. The R&A is the European equivalent of the USGA. As they are the current ruling body of golf over there, and they are the ones who sponsor and run the Open Championship, then it is their right to elect to not play the contest on a course with rules and policies that they do not agree with and cannot support.

They are having the same issue with the next summer Olympics in Japan. The course they elected to use for golf does not allow female full time membership...and the Olympic Committee will have to either tolerate that...or find another venue in Japan.

 

I agree with this.

 

They're both free to make their own decisions. When pushed by the R&A, Muirfield reconsidered their earlier decision in order to remain part of the Open rota.

 

I'm not sure I would have made the same choice. I see the benefits of being a boys-only club with all that that entails. I'm not sure what the benefit is of having your club made unavailable for a couple of weeks every few years to host the Open. And when it's over you've got muddy areas and tramped down areas - it really hurts the course for a good month or so.

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It's 2017. Discrimination of any form has no place in a modern civilised society. I find it odd that any group of supposedly educated people would want to exclude another group purely based on the happenstance of gender, race or sexual preference.

 

I am happy that pro golfers like Rory aren't afraid to voice opinions unequivocally. I hope he will be a fantastic embassy's or for the modernisation of the game, and I am also pleased with my ex bosses stance at the R&A (Martin Slumbers) for pushing for change.

 

So...if you show up at the doorstep of my house...and I happen to have a gathering of people going on there, and because I hypothetically don't agree with your view points...or just don't like the way you look or dress then I have no place in denying you entrance? I mean...it is basically the same thing...it's private property owned by an individual or group...who accepts no government funding...and you're saying modern dogma dictates whether or not I am allowed to control who comes in????

 

Gee...I think I will run down and try that at a Freemason's, The Elders of Zion, or a Skull and Bones meeting...or maybe the Harvard Club. I mean I didn't go to Harvard...but what the heck...it's 2017 and there should not be any discrimination....right? Gee...I live in the Atlanta area...I should throw my clubs in the car and drive up to Augusta...it's only a couple hour drive. I am sure they will let me right on the golf course because it's 2017...

 

If you're an organization that conducts business other than your own club business, or takes public funds then certainly there shouldn't be discrimination of any kind. On the other hand if you are private, do not accept public funding, then you should have every right to either accept or reject whoever you want...it's private. Simply you live with the consequences of societies' viewpoint.

 

Political correctness is something you succumb to or decide it doesn't matter...and if you have enough of a membership where it doesn't matter...then it's your right to restrict membership to whoever you want.

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Rory is the same guy who said he got into golf to win, not grow the game: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/mcilroy-got-golf-win-not-grow-game/ , yet says he agrees with Arnies comment that he now "has an opportunity to give back to the game" in a letter he received from Arnie after winning the 2011 US Open: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/rory-tweets-post-us-open-letter-arnie/

Maybe the guy should just stick to golf.

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I honestly don't know where I stand. I support a company's right to start a business and sell to only who they choose. There are women only gyms and etc

 

But from a personal standpoint, I just don't care if women are at my golf club and don't see how it hurts. It's an iconic course that I'm sure many would love to play

Great points and I actually only thought of this after reading your post however I too do not care if it's an "open " club(I can't think of anything else as "co-ed" sounds so college, lmao), and say a vote came up at my club next week to convert to "Male Only," I would vote a big negative on that and do everything in my power to see that that got voted down.

 

I also could not see myself joining a "Male Only" club at this stage of my life-

 

Besides, Madison would kick my *** ?

 

I'm kiddin, I don't think that she'd care cuz I was gonna drop out of our club cuz they were dragging their feet about allowing Females full membership if they attempted to join the club on their own or say they got divorced and wanted to belong on the their own with full voting rights.

 

This was actually a divisive issue and fractured some relationships, though I'm lucky in that I've got a lot of a lot of acquaintances and that didn't even come into Play with me, lol.

 

Thanks for responding :)

 

My Best,

RP

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I think this is one of the first times I haven't agreed with you Richard!

 

Without getting too deep into it, I don't think there is a reason to exclude people based on gender, race, religion, and /or sexual preference. I think that people that are in a traditional position of 'power and privilege' should be open to welcoming people with less.

 

How about social status or political leaning? Should I hold my breath for an ANGC membership invite?

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I honestly don't know where I stand. I support a company's right to start a business and sell to only who they choose. There are women only gyms and etc

 

But from a personal standpoint, I just don't care if women are at my golf club and don't see how it hurts. It's an iconic course that I'm sure many would love to play

 

Muirfield is not a business but a members club that benefits from zero taxation on profits(surplus) as well as some other benefits

As long as business is not conducted on the premises by members, I am fine with the tax status-

 

Women only clubs emjoy the same tax status and benefits-

 

Thanks for responding :)

 

My Best,

RP

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Each to their own.

 

I don't have a problem with it, and I think the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. Shame on the members of the club for being so weak that they went back on what they believed in. The club obviously leaned on them to vote to let women in because they feared the loss of revenue brought in by being an Open hosting venue. If you're a private club, you have the right to make the rules you see fit, and people should accept those rules.

 

I don't see people calling to boycott the WI because men aren't eligible to join. Double standards, and political correctness gone mad.

 

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It's 2017. Discrimination of any form has no place in a modern civilised society. I find it odd that any group of supposedly educated people would want to exclude another group purely based on the happenstance of gender, race or sexual preference.

 

I am happy that pro golfers like Rory aren't afraid to voice opinions unequivocally. I hope he will be a fantastic embassy's or for the modernisation of the game, and I am also pleased with my ex bosses stance at the R&A (Martin Slumbers) for pushing for change.

But discrimination occurs in many forms all the time. Much of it in the name of equality.

 

 

 

exactly..much like Jeff im on the fence here in a way...BUT it always has and always will gripe me that any other group on earth has the ability , without consequence or public shaming , to form their own group , dictate who can participate and often times receive federal money to fund it...even if partially....

 

that being said ...much like Richard if my small club lost its mind and tried to run off the 3 ladies we have as members i would loose my cool about as fast as you could blink! I guess i like the idea that men could have a mens only club, but doubt i would ever join one......

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Looks like Rory doesn't like the place either way>

 

http://www.cbssports...ack-is-obscene/

“Muirfield wouldn’t be one of my favorite Open rota courses, so no matter the decision yesterday, if it had been kept off The Open Championship rota, I wouldn’t have been that unhappy,” McIlroy said on Wednesday.

 

“I was outspoken about this before whenever the vote went the first time around,” he added. “I mean, in this day and age, where you’ve got women that are like the leaders of certain industries and women that are heads of state and not to be able to join a golf course? I mean, it’s obscene. Like it’s ridiculous.

 

“So, they sort of saw sense. I still think that it got to the stage, this stage, is horrendous. And yeah, I mean, we’ll go back and we’ll play The Open Championship, because they will let women members in, but every time I go to Muirfield now I won’t have a great taste in my mouth ... I just don’t, I don’t get it. So, anyway, look, we’ll go back there for The Open Championship at some point and I won’t be having many cups of tea with the members afterwards.”

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It is not sexism or discrimination to not allow women into a Private Club.

 

They have received undo pressure to allow women into the club. Why? There are all women golf clubs, knitting clubs, scrap booking clubs, bridge clubs, etc. etc. etc. Why can't men have their own PRIVATE club to do what they wish with? I can understand if it was a Public Course, but it isn't. Just because they do or don't want woman in doesn't make them sexist.

 

Rory McIlroy was way out of line for his comments. They make zero sense to me. Every time he opens his mouth he gets dumber and dumber.

 

Golf Channel wants to know why Morning Drive numbers are in the tank? I got sick watching them this morning talk about how great it was that Muirfield succumbed to pressure to allow female members. There is a wide audience that does not agree with this stance. It is political nonsense that any club, including Augusta National, would have to allow female members. They are Private Institutions, they can do what they want. If you don't like it, start your own private club.

 

All this politically correct nonsense is why Donald Trump was elected as President of the USA.

 

Agree with you 100% Richard.

I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

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It is not sexism or discrimination to not allow women into a Private Club.

 

They have received undo pressure to allow women into the club. Why? There are all women golf clubs, knitting clubs, scrap booking clubs, bridge clubs, etc. etc. etc. Why can't men have their own PRIVATE club to do what they wish with? I can understand if it was a Public Course, but it isn't. Just because they do or don't want woman in doesn't make them sexist.

 

Rory McIlroy was way out of line for his comments. They make zero sense to me. Every time he opens he mouth he gets dumber and dumber.

 

Golf Channel wants to know why Morning Drive numbers are in the tank? I got sick watching them this morning talk about how great it was that Muirfield succumbed to pressure to allow female members. There is a wide audience that does not agree with this stance. It is political nonsense that any club, including Augusta National, would have to allow female members. They are Private Institutions, they can do what they want. If you don't like it, start your own private club.

 

All this politically correct nonsense is why Donald Trump was elected as President of the USA.

 

Agree with you 100% Richard.

 

 

Whole heartedly agree on the Rory comments. The more he talks the less I like him. He's so off base. I have tried to think of where he's coming from sometimes and ij just can't do it. He comes off so spoiled and ignorant.

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I think Rory was over the top with "obscene" and some other comments, but I like he's willing to speak out - maybe as he gets older and more savvy he may assume a leadership role in the game and this is all part of that evolution. Maybe. Just hopeful we have some players of some weight coming up who may take some stands on issues or serve as willing role models and keep at it even if they put their foot in it once in awhile.

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This is a great topic. Firstly, I like Rory and I like that he speaks his mind. I don't always agree with everything he says but I do applaud his outspoken nature. I think you have to take a step back on this issue to grasp the whole picture. Why is it that there are female only clubs and organizations that are looked upon as empowering and uplifting and progressive. While a men's only club is often viewed as discriminatory? IMO, it's because men largely have not been historically suppressed as woman have. I'm not saying it is right or wrong. I just think that does have to be considered, and I do think many adopt this position when taking their stance.

 

That being said, I personally do not see the slightest appeal of joining a men's only club. My wife's group of women friends are collectively more sharp, witty, welcoming, and outgoing than pretty much anyone else i know. You might as well join a club with no electricity. If that is your thing, then so be it.

 

Just my .02 Nice banter....

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I think this is one of the first times I haven't agreed with you Richard!

 

Without getting too deep into it, I don't think there is a reason to exclude people based on gender, race, religion, and /or sexual preference. I think that people that are in a traditional position of 'power and privilege' should be open to welcoming people with less.

I agree 100% on Race, Religion and sexual orientation and in fact felt the sting of this in two of these categories when I went for a "shoo in" at the club across the street to pulling my name because my religion became an issue at the 11:55 minute, and also with race when I was 11(1971) at the State Woman's Am at a private club and I had to go to the bathroom and the security officer on the club house porch pointed me in the direction of the rest room in the clubhouse but looked at my Step-Grandfather(A Black Man) and told him that "there was a tree on the course" and he could wait for me. My Grandfather wanted me to go on but I refused and took his hand and we left(he said that he found a tree away from people so I could go, lol) and I wanted to leave the course however he would not as he was there for my Grandmother but when he made her aware of what occurred, she WD'd that evening.

 

She would have to wait one more year to win her 5th Title. I do not equate male/female with the other categories because male/female separation can be done without demeaning the other group, be it a female club or a male club however to exclude some based on race, religion or sexual preference usually brings with it very negative and demeaning side effects.

 

If there were not woman only clubs and organizations my feelings might be different however I can understand others not sharing my views-

 

Thanks much for taking the time to respond Bro and I hope that you're well-

 

Your Mizzy hat is my favorite and most worn hat!!

 

My Best,

Richard

In the end, only three things matter~ <br /><br />How much that you loved...<br /><br />How mightily that you lived...<br /><br />How gracefully that you accepted both victory & defeat...<br /><br /><br /><br />GHIN: Beefeater 24

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