12 clubs?

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  • C-radC-rad  2667Members Posts: 2,667
    Joined:  #32
    mlp021 wrote:

    mlp021 wrote:


    I walked the course yesterday with 10 clubs and scored the best round of the year. It just eliminates (around the greens) some guess work. It simplified my decisions and I was rewarded for it. Now, if I can just get myself to take the same clubs with me next time I play a round in a cart.




    Reminds me of when a football team simplifies its playbook due to its QB. The Ravens won a super bowl doing just this exact thing.



    I think not carrying clubs is kinda silly - there is no way there is no club in the world that could help you, even if its something silly like a chipper or one of those automatic bunker wedges - but simplifying your choices can be really powerful, although counter-intuitive. For a long time I carried two drivers and no lob wedge. The second driver (an 8*, 46" double-X flex high balance point monster) almost never came out but it did on some absolutely wide open holes. I think there is huge merit to what you are saying in terms of simplification in that part of the bag, but I doubt that 10 clubs is optimal - there is some club somewhere that would help you do something, even if its just one shot (like a PM for deep rough lob shots, for example).




    Maybe you're right. But, the course I play is pretty much dead FLAT. What not having all the wedges in the world did for me, was instead of getting cute with a soft high pitch, I instead used a lower lofted iron and got the ball running to the hole. Just reinforced (to me) what I should be doing way more often.



    I never had more than a seven iron into a par 4 and the par fives, without having a fairway wood in the bag and trying to hit the ball as far as possible...I hit an iron for a specific distance into the green. It made me play "smart" golf.



    Oh, and carrying 10 clubs made my back happier at the end of the round.




    I'll just leave this here. If you think laying up to a specific yardage is "smart golf" you should read this book.



    https://www.amazon.com/Every-Shot-Counts-Revolutionary-Performance/dp/1592407501
    what will i learn by reading this?
    Posted:
    Titleist 915 d2
    Titleist 917 f2 18*


    PIng i25 hybrid 22* pwr 90

    project x L.Z 5.5:
    Bridgestone J15 cb 5-pw
    Nike engage 52 square,
    56 toe sweep
    60 dual sole

    Lajosi Dd201

    A dream bag
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  • Petunia SprinklePetunia Sprinkle Future King of France  5362Unregistered Posts: 5,362
    Joined:  #33
    Seven too many.
    Posted:
  • jslane57jslane57  3929Members Posts: 3,929
    Joined:  #34
    C-rad wrote:

    mlp021 wrote:

    mlp021 wrote:


    I walked the course yesterday with 10 clubs and scored the best round of the year. It just eliminates (around the greens) some guess work. It simplified my decisions and I was rewarded for it. Now, if I can just get myself to take the same clubs with me next time I play a round in a cart.




    Reminds me of when a football team simplifies its playbook due to its QB. The Ravens won a super bowl doing just this exact thing.



    I think not carrying clubs is kinda silly - there is no way there is no club in the world that could help you, even if its something silly like a chipper or one of those automatic bunker wedges - but simplifying your choices can be really powerful, although counter-intuitive. For a long time I carried two drivers and no lob wedge. The second driver (an 8*, 46" double-X flex high balance point monster) almost never came out but it did on some absolutely wide open holes. I think there is huge merit to what you are saying in terms of simplification in that part of the bag, but I doubt that 10 clubs is optimal - there is some club somewhere that would help you do something, even if its just one shot (like a PM for deep rough lob shots, for example).




    Maybe you're right. But, the course I play is pretty much dead FLAT. What not having all the wedges in the world did for me, was instead of getting cute with a soft high pitch, I instead used a lower lofted iron and got the ball running to the hole. Just reinforced (to me) what I should be doing way more often.



    I never had more than a seven iron into a par 4 and the par fives, without having a fairway wood in the bag and trying to hit the ball as far as possible...I hit an iron for a specific distance into the green. It made me play "smart" golf.



    Oh, and carrying 10 clubs made my back happier at the end of the round.




    I'll just leave this here. If you think laying up to a specific yardage is "smart golf" you should read this book.



    https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/1592407501
    what will i learn by reading this?
    That drive for show, putt for dough is backwards...
    Posted:
  • birdog903birdog903  111Members Posts: 111
    Joined:  #35
    I currently play 12 as well.



    Driver

    3 wood 15*

    3 hybrid 19*

    4 hybrid 22*

    5-9

    Pw

    Sw

    Putter.



    However, that's a big gap in wedges.
    Posted:
  • C-radC-rad  2667Members Posts: 2,667
    Joined:  #36
    birdog903 wrote:
    I currently play 12 as well.



    Driver

    3 wood 15*

    3 hybrid 19*

    4 hybrid 22*

    5-9

    Pw

    Sw

    Putter.



    However, that's a big gap in wedges.
    drop the 3 wood and 3 hybrid and add a 5 wood and a gap wedge. Problem solve!
    Posted:
    Titleist 915 d2
    Titleist 917 f2 18*


    PIng i25 hybrid 22* pwr 90

    project x L.Z 5.5:
    Bridgestone J15 cb 5-pw
    Nike engage 52 square,
    56 toe sweep
    60 dual sole

    Lajosi Dd201

    A dream bag
  • Need2golfalotNeed2golfalot  674Members Posts: 674
    Joined:  #37
    I didn't use the 52° wedge last 3 rounds. Could use a 4 wood to replace the 3 and 5 wood. Will always bag 14 in the cart because I can.



    Drive for show putt for dough is correct. Putting is the money part of the game. Now hitting in the woods all day and missing every green is no fun. You need some decent ballstriking to make putting worthwhile, but outdriving your playing partners by a few yards every hole does not mean you will out score them.
    Posted:
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3492Members Posts: 3,492
    Joined:  #38
    C-rad wrote:

    mlp021 wrote:
    what will i learn by reading this?
    That drive for show, putt for dough is backwards...




    Correct, that is a conclusion, although the one I was driving at is that laying up to a specific yardage almost certainly makes your scores worse (and a whole bunch of other golf myths dispelled).




    I didn't use the 52° wedge last 3 rounds. Could use a 4 wood to replace the 3 and 5 wood. Will always bag 14 in the cart because I can.



    Drive for show putt for dough is correct. Putting is the money part of the game. Now hitting in the woods all day and missing every green is no fun. You need some decent ballstriking to make putting worthwhile, but outdriving your playing partners by a few yards every hole does not mean you will out score them.




    If you actually believe that (and you arn't just trolling me), you should read the book. High caps and PGA pros are almost identical at putting when you adjust for the distance the balls starts from the hole. Pros make more putts because they hit the ball closer. A high cap and a pro have virtually identical putting statistics inside four feet (97.4%) and between 8 and 50 (two putt 96% of the time). Pros are better between 4-8 and outside 50, but not by much. A 15 cap who had a PGA pro hit all of his putts would save about 2.7 strokes a round. It doesn't matter. There is no amount of putting skill that makes up for hitting the ball a yard or two closer to the pin on average. Obviously "being in the woods all day" is bad (who would advocate that?).



    This isn't the part of the book I wanted the OP to read. Laying up to specific distances isn't smart golf. Its the exact opposite of smart golf. The biggest factor in how close to the hole you hit the ball is how close to the hole the ball started before you swung. Everyone is better from 50 than 100. Everyone.



    That said, this is an argument as old as time. Read the book, he argues it much more eloquently than I do.
    Posted:
    Ping g30 driver, Tight Lies 3 wood
    910H 19*, Hi-Bore Hybrid 24*
    j40 DPC 5-PW x100
    Vokey SM7 50, 55, 60
    Edel Putter
  • dbleagdbleag  2908Members Posts: 2,908
    Joined:  #39
    For fun and testing purposes, I will try it two different ways:



    Bag 1 - driver, 21* hybrid, #6, #8, PW, LW, Putter = 7 clubs.



    Bag D - 15* fairway wood, 21* hybrid, #5, #7, #9, SW, putter = 7 clubs.



    Hopefully, this will make my course feel different, will require different strategies, will make the bag lighter, play faster and will fulfill my club 'Ho needs.
    Posted:
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3492Members Posts: 3,492
    Joined:  edited Mar 27, 2017 #40
    dbleag wrote:
    For fun and testing purposes, I will try it two different ways:



    Bag 1 - driver, 21* hybrid, #6, #8, PW, LW, Putter = 7 clubs.



    Bag D - 15* fairway wood, 21* hybrid, #5, #7, #9, SW, putter = 7 clubs.



    Hopefully, this will make my course feel different, will require different strategies, will make the bag lighter, play faster and will fulfill my club 'Ho needs.




    1. Consider putting a 460cc head in both bags, even if it has fairway wood loft (like a super cheap old sweet 16). Mishits off the tee arn't fun for anybody and when you hit the longer 4s you'll miss. It's subconscious. Unless you have extreme mental toughness your brain won't let you make a swing that hits it dead square to 230+ out. You don't want to practice that anyway.



    2. Putter in both bags? Boo. Putt with the blade of a SW or a hybrid. It makes an actual putter feel incredibly easy. This is also a good way to test if your putter's lie angle is correct for you. They make (virtually) all putters at 72*. You may feel more comfortable flatter (I bent mine after some putting with a wedge).
    Posted:
    Ping g30 driver, Tight Lies 3 wood
    910H 19*, Hi-Bore Hybrid 24*
    j40 DPC 5-PW x100
    Vokey SM7 50, 55, 60
    Edel Putter
  • jslane57jslane57  3929Members Posts: 3,929
    Joined:  #41
    dbleag wrote:


    For fun and testing purposes, I will try it two different ways:



    Bag 1 - driver, 21* hybrid, #6, #8, PW, LW, Putter = 7 clubs.



    Bag D - 15* fairway wood, 21* hybrid, #5, #7, #9, SW, putter = 7 clubs.



    Hopefully, this will make my course feel different, will require different strategies, will make the bag lighter, play faster and will fulfill my club 'Ho needs.
    Let us know. I bet it matters zero to your score overall.
    Posted:
  • ajschn06ajschn06  2398Banned Posts: 2,398
    Joined:  #42

    C-rad wrote:

    mlp021 wrote:
    what will i learn by reading this?
    That drive for show, putt for dough is backwards...




    Correct, that is a conclusion, although the one I was driving at is that laying up to a specific yardage almost certainly makes your scores worse (and a whole bunch of other golf myths dispelled).




    I didn't use the 52° wedge last 3 rounds. Could use a 4 wood to replace the 3 and 5 wood. Will always bag 14 in the cart because I can.



    Drive for show putt for dough is correct. Putting is the money part of the game. Now hitting in the woods all day and missing every green is no fun. You need some decent ballstriking to make putting worthwhile, but outdriving your playing partners by a few yards every hole does not mean you will out score them.




    If you actually believe that (and you arn't just trolling me), you should read the book. High caps and PGA pros are almost identical at putting when you adjust for the distance the balls starts from the hole. Pros make more putts because they hit the ball closer. A high cap and a pro have virtually identical putting statistics inside four feet (97.4%) and between 8 and 50 (two putt 96% of the time). Pros are better between 4-8 and outside 50, but not by much. A 15 cap who had a PGA pro hit all of his putts would save about 2.7 strokes a round. It doesn't matter. There is no amount of putting skill that makes up for hitting the ball a yard or two closer to the pin on average. Obviously "being in the woods all day" is bad (who would advocate that?).



    This isn't the part of the book I wanted the OP to read. Laying up to specific distances isn't smart golf. Its the exact opposite of smart golf. The biggest factor in how close to the hole you hit the ball is how close to the hole the ball started before you swung. Everyone is better from 50 than 100. Everyone.








    Absolutely not true
    Posted:
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  • nixnix  1014Members Posts: 1,014
    Joined:  #43
    I go with a 14 club bag and need everyone for the shots on my course



    driver

    16.53w

    28 hybrid

    4-pw

    52,56,60

    Putter



    I would guess that I will use every club in the bag during a typical round. If I were forced to drop a club, I don't know what it would be. maybe the hybrid, but I use it for off the deck shots on par 5s and it's been good to me.
    Posted:
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3492Members Posts: 3,492
    Joined:  #44
    ajschn06 wrote:


    C-rad wrote:

    mlp021 wrote:
    what will i learn by reading this?
    That drive for show, putt for dough is backwards...




    Correct, that is a conclusion, although the one I was driving at is that laying up to a specific yardage almost certainly makes your scores worse (and a whole bunch of other golf myths dispelled).




    I didn't use the 52° wedge last 3 rounds. Could use a 4 wood to replace the 3 and 5 wood. Will always bag 14 in the cart because I can.



    Drive for show putt for dough is correct. Putting is the money part of the game. Now hitting in the woods all day and missing every green is no fun. You need some decent ballstriking to make putting worthwhile, but outdriving your playing partners by a few yards every hole does not mean you will out score them.




    If you actually believe that (and you arn't just trolling me), you should read the book. High caps and PGA pros are almost identical at putting when you adjust for the distance the balls starts from the hole. Pros make more putts because they hit the ball closer. A high cap and a pro have virtually identical putting statistics inside four feet (97.4%) and between 8 and 50 (two putt 96% of the time). Pros are better between 4-8 and outside 50, but not by much. A 15 cap who had a PGA pro hit all of his putts would save about 2.7 strokes a round. It doesn't matter. There is no amount of putting skill that makes up for hitting the ball a yard or two closer to the pin on average. Obviously "being in the woods all day" is bad (who would advocate that?).



    This isn't the part of the book I wanted the OP to read. Laying up to specific distances isn't smart golf. Its the exact opposite of smart golf. The biggest factor in how close to the hole you hit the ball is how close to the hole the ball started before you swung. Everyone is better from 50 than 100. Everyone.








    Absolutely not true




    Discussed / debated extensively in this thread:



    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1396090-ditch-the-3w/page__st__210__p__14469580__hl__+ditch +wood#entry14469580



    Claiming you are better from 100 than 50 is like saying you are a better putter from 20 feet than 3. Its ridiculous.



    I'm assuming you haven't read the book I linked to earlier.
    Posted:
    Ping g30 driver, Tight Lies 3 wood
    910H 19*, Hi-Bore Hybrid 24*
    j40 DPC 5-PW x100
    Vokey SM7 50, 55, 60
    Edel Putter
  • jslane57jslane57  3929Members Posts: 3,929
    Joined:  edited Mar 27, 2017 #45
    One is better from 50 yards with a SW or from 50 yards with a PW. One does not need a LW or a GW to hit a 50 yard shot better than a 100 yard shot. While there is truth to this argument, how does it change the 12 or less club decision by said golfer? The reason folks take driver out of the bag is because they consistently are closer to the hole with a different club, not because they wish to be farther from the hole. I frequently hit 3-iron off the tee. Why? Because it puts me in an aggressive position to attack the hole. Would a driver get me closer? Sure, but if it brings woods or OB into play at an alarming rate, it is surely not a smarter play as hitting #3 off the tee is much farther away from the hole...
    Posted:
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3492Members Posts: 3,492
    Joined:  edited Mar 27, 2017 #46
    jslane57 wrote:


    One is better from 50 yards with a SW or from 50 yards with a PW. One does not need a LW or a GW to hit a 50 yard shot better than a 100 yard shot. While there is truth to this argument, how does it change the 12 or less club decision by said golfer? The reason folks take driver out of the bag is because they consistently are closer to the hole with a different club, not because they wish to be farther from the hole. I frequently hit 3-iron off the tee. Why? Because it puts me in an aggressive position to attack the hole. Would a driver get me closer? Sure, but if it brings woods or OB into play at an alarming rate, it is surely not a smarter play as hitting #3 off the tee is much farther away from the hole...




    This is why I posted a link to the book. Obviously you don't hit driver if it risks OB, he specifically discusses that. I can't summarize a 200 page book in a thread on here. Read it or don't read it, up to you. I found it extremely compelling because it is based on a mountain of data about what leads to low scores and what doesn't, but its up to you guys to read it. The thread I linked to has a huge discussion about it, we don't have to repeat it here.



    Re: 12 clubs, I think its really weird that you have to take a club out of your bag so you won't hit a stupid shot with it. Its like cutting your tongue out of your mouth to go on a diet. Just don't hit shots you can't hit. Having to take a club out of the bag is silly.



    There is a monster difference re: 12 clubs between a guy who always plays the same course and one who doesn't. There's nothing wrong with always playing the same course but if you need to play for different courses (length, types of sand, trees/no trees, tight/open, etc...) you need more clubs. You could probably use 10 clubs if your just running the same track from the same tees repeatedly.



    Finally, we have a sample size issue here. You've played probably thousands of rounds in your life with 14 clubs. You have a few good ones with 12. That means pretty much zero. Play 200 with 12 and shoot significantly better scores and we might have something to discuss. A handful of rounds means zip.



    All that said, to each his own. I just think its really odd, but probably fine if your just running the same track from the same tees over and over and over.
    Posted:
    Ping g30 driver, Tight Lies 3 wood
    910H 19*, Hi-Bore Hybrid 24*
    j40 DPC 5-PW x100
    Vokey SM7 50, 55, 60
    Edel Putter
  • ago33ago33  2199Members Posts: 2,199
    Joined:  #47

    ago33 wrote:


    I've been tinkering with my setup and have been thinking I don't like a lot of clubs at the top of my bag or at the bottom so I'm thinking

    Driver

    4 wood

    21 hybrid

    5-9

    46-52-58

    Putter



    Anyone try this? If so, what did you think of it and how did it work




    How do you hit a low screamer out of the trees?



    It seems fine, if the courses you play don't have woods. Otherwise I think that shot is missing.




    21 hybrid is the adams DHy, so no problems with that shot
    Posted:
    Cobra F9 Speedback 9.................................Mitsubishi PO 70 TX
    Tour Edge CBX 13.5.......................................Rombax P95 X
    Tour Edge CBX 18..........................................Rombax P95 X
    Mizuno MP-18 FliHi 4,5................................DGTIX100
    Mizuno MP-25 6-9........................................DGTIX100
    Callaway MD Forged 46, 50, 56, 60........DGTIS400
    Scotty Cameron 5.5M...................................Grip Master
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3492Members Posts: 3,492
    Joined:  #48
    ago33 wrote:


    ago33 wrote:


    I've been tinkering with my setup and have been thinking I don't like a lot of clubs at the top of my bag or at the bottom so I'm thinking

    Driver

    4 wood

    21 hybrid

    5-9

    46-52-58

    Putter



    Anyone try this? If so, what did you think of it and how did it work




    How do you hit a low screamer out of the trees?



    It seems fine, if the courses you play don't have woods. Otherwise I think that shot is missing.




    21 hybrid is the adams DHy, so no problems with that shot




    Fantastic club. Well played.
    Posted:
    Ping g30 driver, Tight Lies 3 wood
    910H 19*, Hi-Bore Hybrid 24*
    j40 DPC 5-PW x100
    Vokey SM7 50, 55, 60
    Edel Putter
  • jslane57jslane57  3929Members Posts: 3,929
    Joined:  #49

    jslane57 wrote:


    One is better from 50 yards with a SW or from 50 yards with a PW. One does not need a LW or a GW to hit a 50 yard shot better than a 100 yard shot. While there is truth to this argument, how does it change the 12 or less club decision by said golfer? The reason folks take driver out of the bag is because they consistently are closer to the hole with a different club, not because they wish to be farther from the hole. I frequently hit 3-iron off the tee. Why? Because it puts me in an aggressive position to attack the hole. Would a driver get me closer? Sure, but if it brings woods or OB into play at an alarming rate, it is surely not a smarter play as hitting #3 off the tee is much farther away from the hole...




    This is why I posted a link to the book. Obviously you don't hit driver if it risks OB, he specifically discusses that. I can't summarize a 200 page book in a thread on here. Read it or don't read it, up to you. I found it extremely compelling because it is based on a mountain of data about what leads to low scores and what doesn't, but its up to you guys to read it. The thread I linked to has a huge discussion about it, we don't have to repeat it here.



    Re: 12 clubs, I think its really weird that you have to take a club out of your bag so you won't hit a stupid shot with it. Its like cutting your tongue out of your mouth to go on a diet. Just don't hit shots you can't hit. Having to take a club out of the bag is silly.



    There is a monster difference re: 12 clubs between a guy who always plays the same course and one who doesn't. There's nothing wrong with always playing the same course but if you need to play for different courses (length, types of sand, trees/no trees, tight/open, etc...) you need more clubs. You could probably use 10 clubs if your just running the same track from the same tees repeatedly.



    Finally, we have a sample size issue here. You've played probably thousands of rounds in your life with 14 clubs. You have a few good ones with 12. That means pretty much zero. Play 200 with 12 and shoot significantly better scores and we might have something to discuss. A handful of rounds means zip.



    All that said, to each his own. I just think its really odd, but probably fine if your just running the same track from the same tees over and over and over.
    Even if a person scored worse with fewer clubs, if it allowed them to carry and walk, or transport clubs in a small car, or just enjoy the day more, it is worth it. The game of golf for most golfers is not made or broke by anything resembling score...
    Posted:
  • Need2golfalotNeed2golfalot  674Members Posts: 674
    Joined:  edited Mar 28, 2017 #50
    I'll have to check out the book. Still thinking about that second shot on a par 5 when you are too far to reach...do you lay up to 100 (or 90, or 80) with an iron or blast a wood to 50 or so yards. 50 yards is an akward yardage to control distance and spin for most weekend golfers who don't practice 1/2 and 3/4 type swings. If I have a club that goes 100 or 90 or 80 with a repeatable swing I might be better off. Plus by hitting a longer club on my second shot there is a greater chance of error. Especially with water or OB left and trees right.



    Posted:
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3492Members Posts: 3,492
    Joined:  edited Mar 28, 2017 #51


    I'll have to check out the book. Still thinking about that second shot on a par 5 when you are too far to reach...do you lay up to 100 (or 90, or 80) with an iron or blast a wood to 50 or so yards. 50 yards is an akward yardage to control distance and spin for most weekend golfers who don't practice 1/2 and 3/4 type swings. If I have a club that goes 100 or 90 or 80 with a repeatable swing I might be better off. Plus by hitting a longer club on my second shot there is a greater chance of error. Especially with water or OB left and trees right.




    You feel more uncomfortable, but you still hit the ball closer on average. Those arn't the same thing. You should hit it as far as is safely possible (i.e. that doesn't bring a stroke-costing hazard into play water or OB). The basic point of the book (and it is fantastic) is that your brain doesn't deal in strokes, it deals in comfort. You'll score better from 50 over time by a huge margin, but until you actually do it a lot it will feel worse.



    He proves pretty conclusively that misses are calculated in percent (Because they are degrees offlline in a golf swing). If you miss by 10% 100 yards out its much worse than missing 10% 50 yards out (Twice as worse, in fact). Your brain doesn't think in terms of percent misses. It fools you because it wants to be where it is comfortable, not where you will hit it the closest over time.
    Posted:
    Ping g30 driver, Tight Lies 3 wood
    910H 19*, Hi-Bore Hybrid 24*
    j40 DPC 5-PW x100
    Vokey SM7 50, 55, 60
    Edel Putter
  • Need2golfalotNeed2golfalot  674Members Posts: 674
    Joined:  edited Mar 28, 2017 #52
    Lately trouble is in play with every stroke I take with anything over a 7 iron LOL. But, I might as well stay aggressive since it's only recreational golf.



    What does the book say about putting? Once I blast a putt past the hole and three putt, or if I miss a 3 to 4 footer I find myself lagging and coming up short the rest of the day. Probably need to stay aggresive to take advantage of birdie opportunities.
    Posted:
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  • tap in birdietap in birdie  531Members Posts: 531
    Joined:  #53
    Why over complicate things? If I could shoot the same with driver, 7 iron, putter I'd bag 3 clubs. Unfortunately I suck and find myself in need of every club in my bag..and then some
    Posted:
  • jslane57jslane57  3929Members Posts: 3,929
    Joined:  #54


    Why over complicate things? If I could shoot the same with driver, 7 iron, putter I'd bag 3 clubs. Unfortunately I suck and find myself in need of every club in my bag..and then some
    But, but, but, your name is Tap In Birdie! You can't suck! And really, more clubs = more complications:)
    Posted:
  • jacobEDGEjacobEDGE  2011Members Posts: 2,011
    Joined:  #55
    I have 13.



    Driver

    3 wood

    3 Hybrid

    4-PW

    52, 56

    Putter



    I could honestly take my 4-iron out, as I hardly ever use it. And when I do, it's horrible contact. My 5-iron actually goes further than my 4-iron on average.
    Posted:
  • 200Golf200Golf  10Members Posts: 10
    Joined:  #56
    driver

    13.5 wood

    1 iron

    4 iron

    6 iron

    7 iron

    8 iron

    9 iron

    wedge 50

    sand 57

    lob 61

    putter
    Posted:
  • 596596 Lakeland, FL 3720Members Posts: 3,720
    Joined:  #57



    I'll have to check out the book. Still thinking about that second shot on a par 5 when you are too far to reach...do you lay up to 100 (or 90, or 80) with an iron or blast a wood to 50 or so yards. 50 yards is an akward yardage to control distance and spin for most weekend golfers who don't practice 1/2 and 3/4 type swings. If I have a club that goes 100 or 90 or 80 with a repeatable swing I might be better off. Plus by hitting a longer club on my second shot there is a greater chance of error. Especially with water or OB left and trees right.




    You feel more uncomfortable, but you still hit the ball closer on average. Those arn't the same thing. You should hit it as far as is safely possible (i.e. that doesn't bring a stroke-costing hazard into play water or OB). The basic point of the book (and it is fantastic) is that your brain doesn't deal in strokes, it deals in comfort. You'll score better from 50 over time by a huge margin, but until you actually do it a lot it will feel worse.



    He proves pretty conclusively that misses are calculated in percent (Because they are degrees offlline in a golf swing). If you miss by 10% 100 yards out its much worse than missing 10% 50 yards out (Twice as worse, in fact). Your brain doesn't think in terms of percent misses. It fools you because it wants to be where it is comfortable, not where you will hit it the closest over time.




    I asked our Pro a few weeks ago what distance he lays up to for his wedge approaches and his response was "as close to the hole as I can get". He never lays up to a specific yardage. He always hits the ball as close to the green as he can get. I do the same thing. I will hit the ball closer to the hole the closer to the hole I start at, it's actually common sense.
    Posted:
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  • C-radC-rad  2667Members Posts: 2,667
    Joined:  #58
    596 wrote:



    I'll have to check out the book. Still thinking about that second shot on a par 5 when you are too far to reach...do you lay up to 100 (or 90, or 80) with an iron or blast a wood to 50 or so yards. 50 yards is an akward yardage to control distance and spin for most weekend golfers who don't practice 1/2 and 3/4 type swings. If I have a club that goes 100 or 90 or 80 with a repeatable swing I might be better off. Plus by hitting a longer club on my second shot there is a greater chance of error. Especially with water or OB left and trees right.




    You feel more uncomfortable, but you still hit the ball closer on average. Those arn't the same thing. You should hit it as far as is safely possible (i.e. that doesn't bring a stroke-costing hazard into play water or OB). The basic point of the book (and it is fantastic) is that your brain doesn't deal in strokes, it deals in comfort. You'll score better from 50 over time by a huge margin, but until you actually do it a lot it will feel worse.



    He proves pretty conclusively that misses are calculated in percent (Because they are degrees offlline in a golf swing). If you miss by 10% 100 yards out its much worse than missing 10% 50 yards out (Twice as worse, in fact). Your brain doesn't think in terms of percent misses. It fools you because it wants to be where it is comfortable, not where you will hit it the closest over time.




    I asked our Pro a few weeks ago what distance he lays up to for his wedge approaches and his response was "as close to the hole as I can get". He never lays up to a specific yardage. He always hits the ball as close to the green as he can get. I do the same thing. I will hit the ball closer to the hole the closer to the hole I start at, it's actually common sense.
    same here. This is why i find my self with more clubs than i needed. I am never at a comfirtable yardage so i have to be creative amd find a solution. For shotmaking skills, that strategy is a must. But i always consider the hazards....
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  • jslane57jslane57  3929Members Posts: 3,929
    Joined:  #59
    C-rad wrote:

    596 wrote:



    I'll have to check out the book. Still thinking about that second shot on a par 5 when you are too far to reach...do you lay up to 100 (or 90, or 80) with an iron or blast a wood to 50 or so yards. 50 yards is an akward yardage to control distance and spin for most weekend golfers who don't practice 1/2 and 3/4 type swings. If I have a club that goes 100 or 90 or 80 with a repeatable swing I might be better off. Plus by hitting a longer club on my second shot there is a greater chance of error. Especially with water or OB left and trees right.




    You feel more uncomfortable, but you still hit the ball closer on average. Those arn't the same thing. You should hit it as far as is safely possible (i.e. that doesn't bring a stroke-costing hazard into play water or OB). The basic point of the book (and it is fantastic) is that your brain doesn't deal in strokes, it deals in comfort. You'll score better from 50 over time by a huge margin, but until you actually do it a lot it will feel worse.



    He proves pretty conclusively that misses are calculated in percent (Because they are degrees offlline in a golf swing). If you miss by 10% 100 yards out its much worse than missing 10% 50 yards out (Twice as worse, in fact). Your brain doesn't think in terms of percent misses. It fools you because it wants to be where it is comfortable, not where you will hit it the closest over time.




    I asked our Pro a few weeks ago what distance he lays up to for his wedge approaches and his response was "as close to the hole as I can get". He never lays up to a specific yardage. He always hits the ball as close to the green as he can get. I do the same thing. I will hit the ball closer to the hole the closer to the hole I start at, it's actually common sense.
    same here. This is why i find my self with more clubs than i needed. I am never at a comfirtable yardage so i have to be creative amd find a solution. For shotmaking skills, that strategy is a must. But i always consider the hazards....
    Laying up closest you can is great! Proven to be a good strategy. Not the only strategy. But carrying more clubs to be creative? More clubs = more stock shots. If never at a comfortable yardage, at least you could be comfortable with a club...
    Posted:
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3492Members Posts: 3,492
    Joined:  #60


    Lately trouble is in play with every stroke I take with anything over a 7 iron LOL. But, I might as well stay aggressive since it's only recreational golf.



    What does the book say about putting? Once I blast a putt past the hole and three putt, or if I miss a 3 to 4 footer I find myself lagging and coming up short the rest of the day. Probably need to stay aggresive to take advantage of birdie opportunities.




    That it doesn't matter. Well, not that it doesn't matter, but that it takes so much time to get better at it to have it show up in your score (Because of the huge equalizing factor of the two putt) that its stupid to practice putting. If we both putt from 10 feet and you hit it to 2 inches and I hit it to two feet, you have made about a 30% better stroke than me. With the driver, that is MASSIVE. With the putter, its irrelevant (Because we both tap it in). A 90 shooter who has a PGA putt for him will save about two strokes per round. Its not that putting doesn't matter, its that it takes so long to improve its pointless. Further, most people trick themselves into thinking they are much worse at putting than they actually are because they only remember the misses - its how our memories work. A miss from two feet gets seared into our brains as awful, but a make from two feet doesn't. 98% of golfers one putt 97.6% of the time within 3.5 feet and two putt 97% of the time between 8-35/40 feet. Between 3.5 and 8 and over 40 is where "good putters" can seperate themselves, but the strokes you gain arn't even close to worth the practice time.



    You can never practice putting enough to make up for just hitting it closer. Its silly. By getting better at ballstriking you automatically become a better putter much faster (because you are hitting it close to the hole), so until your ballstriking is very close to elite, there's no point to putting practice.
    Posted:
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3492Members Posts: 3,492
    Joined:  edited Mar 29, 2017 #61
    jslane57 wrote:

    C-rad wrote:

    596 wrote:



    I'll have to check out the book. Still thinking about that second shot on a par 5 when you are too far to reach...do you lay up to 100 (or 90, or 80) with an iron or blast a wood to 50 or so yards. 50 yards is an akward yardage to control distance and spin for most weekend golfers who don't practice 1/2 and 3/4 type swings. If I have a club that goes 100 or 90 or 80 with a repeatable swing I might be better off. Plus by hitting a longer club on my second shot there is a greater chance of error. Especially with water or OB left and trees right.




    You feel more uncomfortable, but you still hit the ball closer on average. Those arn't the same thing. You should hit it as far as is safely possible (i.e. that doesn't bring a stroke-costing hazard into play water or OB). The basic point of the book (and it is fantastic) is that your brain doesn't deal in strokes, it deals in comfort. You'll score better from 50 over time by a huge margin, but until you actually do it a lot it will feel worse.



    He proves pretty conclusively that misses are calculated in percent (Because they are degrees offlline in a golf swing). If you miss by 10% 100 yards out its much worse than missing 10% 50 yards out (Twice as worse, in fact). Your brain doesn't think in terms of percent misses. It fools you because it wants to be where it is comfortable, not where you will hit it the closest over time.




    I asked our Pro a few weeks ago what distance he lays up to for his wedge approaches and his response was "as close to the hole as I can get". He never lays up to a specific yardage. He always hits the ball as close to the green as he can get. I do the same thing. I will hit the ball closer to the hole the closer to the hole I start at, it's actually common sense.
    same here. This is why i find my self with more clubs than i needed. I am never at a comfirtable yardage so i have to be creative amd find a solution. For shotmaking skills, that strategy is a must. But i always consider the hazards....
    Laying up closest you can is great! Proven to be a good strategy. Not the only strategy. But carrying more clubs to be creative? More clubs = more stock shots. If never at a comfortable yardage, at least you could be comfortable with a club...




    Totally agree with you. Playing with fewer clubs is a great training tool. Try playing a few weeks without a driver or 3w. I'm doing it right now - lowest club is 3 iron. My home course is completely different and much harder with the big stick not in the bag. It requires much much more planning on the tee box. From the tips I can't break 78.



    I wouldn't play with less than 14 in an event ever, but to train your brain (and to figure out what your clubs can really do) it really is a great thing to experiment with.
    Posted:
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    910H 19*, Hi-Bore Hybrid 24*
    j40 DPC 5-PW x100
    Vokey SM7 50, 55, 60
    Edel Putter
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