Thanks for sharing this. I didn't know he was doing a webinar until I saw the aftermath in his Twitter feed.
Sorry. I appreciate the reply. I just forgot to comeback and check here. Been a little all over the place with the current situation.
im going to digest that and the video below and I’ll see where my thoughts / questions lie and get back to you.
Video is definitely worth a watch. Just finishing it up now.
Definitely some interesting concepts. I certainly need a lot of work in my course management skills and is one of my points of emphasis to improve on this year. I am not at that level where I would invest in the system yet as I would have to get in the single digit level to even consider investing in the product.
Maybe if you had a better understand of the concepts outlined in DECADE you would be single digits. If you chose better targets for your average swing your score is surely to go down. You should think like the best in the world regardless of physical skill level, otherwise you aren’t maximizing your current skill set. Your thinking is backwards IMO.
Finally got it all watched. Lots of interesting points. Especially putting. I think the ideals on speed vs line rang true for me especially , consequently I focuses only on speed last week in practice and noticed right away on course Saturday that I had literally zero stress on the greens. So there’s something to the idea of less speed and a mindset of speed focus more Than line focus
after really listening in detail , I already play this way off the Tee.
now approach that’s where I think I can cut some errors. Basically just being cognizant of where you cannot miss and adjusting accordingly. I’m very aggressive on approach which works a lot. But causes big numbers once or twice a round a lot of the time IF you miss. Those are what I’d love to cut out.
I saw the segment on Como's show and I absolutely love the concept. However, after having read through this thread, I don't think I can go in on the Decade system yet ... it seems like there is way too much work to do outside of the app that the app should be doing itself (GPS tracking of shots, calculating your dispersion patterns over time, overlaying your particular cones .. if I got the terminology right ... over the course maps before you hit your shots, etc.). I know there are some that will say that you have to put in the time to do those things to improve and/or that it doesn't take that long ... but I already put in as much time as I can with golf, and my experience in life is that I usually triple the amount of time that others tell me things are going to take. I think I'm going to start with Arccos and possibly graduate to Decade if it starts to automate some of those things you need to do the system properly. Wishing Decade the best though, really did love that segment on Como's show!
Tracking your own stats is only one part of the decade system...there is also the underlying methodology so you can learn to make the best decision, then the stats can tell you how well you're executing it. Things like club selection and aim off the tee, how to adjust your aim based on hazards and pin location, laying up vs going for it etc.
Using the interactive shot plotter it takes 10 minutes tops to input a score at the end of the round if you have a good memory, but properly preparing for around will take a little longer, but is where you will see the benefits.
Scott doesn't want you near your phone / technology during a round as this is a distraction, which is why you enter data after the round.
IMO Decade and Arccos are two fundamentally different products - if you just want to track your stats and where your shots go, then go for Arccos, but if you want to learn the correct course management approach, then use your stats to validate it, Decade is better.
I get what you're saying, and I agree from my research that they are fundamentally different products. There's a lot of things I'd be willing to do within the Decade system, and I am very interested in course management using the strokes gained methodology (I read Broadie and LOVED it) ... but I just literally don't have the time to do the extras that are required post-round, and especially pre-round, to commit to Decade. I'm further back than almost anyone on this thread (12hcp), so for now I'll take the SG data that I can get from Arccos (understanding that it will have virtually nothing to do with course management) and hope that eventually Decade will automate to the point that I can use it with my time constraints and tolerance for useability. My comments are mainly to chime in if Scott revisits this thread to see another voice that's almost there to buy in, if his app can take those next steps that will drastically improve the useability.
Do note that the pre-round items you mention are 1 time items per course. If you play a club, you do it once from the tees you play and you're done until you pick up significant distance or reconfigure your bag. The Elite app has a yardage book generator where you specify 3 distances (eg. 300, 275, 250) and it draws cones for you. I personally like to map the cones myself with Google Earth because you get a better idea of sightlines.
While I agree that some things could be more seamless with the post-round entry, it's supposed to be a retrospective experience for you. If you can't spare 10-20 mins to do it, it's not for you (like you've said). This is the Elite app that I am referring to.
Scott recently released Decade Foundations. He only tracks the "Tiger 5" stats in that app so you don't get bogged down by all the other data entry. With Foundations, you learn the strategy and keep track of 5 stats. Pretty simple.
That’s an interesting pair to compare.
to me they are saying opposites a lot of the time.
Broadie to me is Uber aggressive and decade to me seems really conservative.
Love this thread. Been focusing more on the course management and strokes gained side lately. Fascinating stuff!
Here is a cruel and unusual one. Following Scott's flow chart it appears I don't know what the heck course I'm on and unfortunately its NOT a short hole. I'm seriously considering 8i off the tee. Widest part of fairway is about 35 yards. What do you all think? I'm a single digit, but thinking a 5 is a fairly good score on this one.
I'd say that the best way to play that one is to hit something like a 6 iron off the tee to where the yellow line is. Basically at 200 yards, you should be able to hit it in a 26 yard gap. Maybe that's a little much though and 180 is better. 180 leaves you with 240, which by eyeballing it gives you about 200 to clear all the water that's up there. So 6 iron to the yellow bit, 3 iron to maybe front edge and if not, then in the neck up there. Then if you're 40 yards away in the bunker, make 5 and get out of there. If you're in the short grass, then try make 4.
The problem with the 8 iron is that your second shot it's a long way to get over the water in the air. So all you're really doing is delaying the problem to your next shot. It's an awful hole though. It looks like a 180-200 yard stretch of water on both sides and not far enough apart to play down reliably. How is a 15 handicap supposed to play that hole?
I think Scott would say to take driver, commit to a target, and send it. Just a hard hole. Don't think laying back off the tee helps you much. If you lay up off the tee, you're effectively making this a par 5. If you hit driver you probably have 6i in? Worth going for it IMO. If you hit it in the water off the tee shot you're dropping and playing for 5 anyway by hitting your 6i in and 2 putting. Definitely would be a hole playing well over par in a tournament.
ETA: Driver brings 6 into play. But laying up doesn't remove it reliably enough to be worth it IMO.
The video on driving that he has up on youtube specifically describes a hole like this. 420 with OB left and water hazard right. He talks about how he hit 7 iron off the tee and then 3 iron up into the neck of the green. He's not short, so he can do something like that, but it still doesn't mean that the "right" play here isn't to make it a par 5. Thing is, some of the shots that you hit in the water are going to get dropped way back in the rough. Quite likely you won't be able to get past the water from there. That means higher numbers than 6 are on the cards. If you can make 6 laying up, you can definitely make 7 hitting driver.
I hear ya about 6 being in play regardless. A lot will depend on the wind that day too. This home typically plays into the wind and there’s not trees blocking so even on a not super windy day there’s still a decent amount of wind. I actually hope it’s one of my first holes so I can hopefully get it in the morning. Driver no wind is a 6 likely. Driver with wind im probably hybrid or FW in. And like mentioned above my ball may cross into the hazard fairly far back. Which means I’m hitting 3 from over 200 yards out.
Can you get there in relative safety with 3 short iron shots? 140 x 3 should mean fewer penalties and average 5's or so.
I have a par 5 with trouble on both sides that I have played 3x7 iron before. Rarely birdie it but 6 is the worst I'm going to do.
Trouble with hitting driver is if you pull it you'll end up dropping way back, and at least a 6 is in play.
It says it normally plays into the wind which will typically make dispersion wider as well.
That second lake on the right up near the green really throws a spanner in the works otherwise I would just send my second shot out there and hit a wedge back across.
I bet if you made 5 every time on this hole you won't be losing ground
I would take a club that can't reach the water on the right, then just smash a 3 wood as far up there as I can out of water and try my luck wedging up and down. Maybe some sort of punch hook at the cart path, where the over miss will be long and end up on the fairway, and a straight shot is just short of the lake.
Most important thing is to build a strategy which gives you the lowest % chance of ending up int he water.
Definitely. I was thinking more like 7 or 8i then 5i depending on wind. Then I’d be at about 100. Need to make sure I go in with solid wedges.
How'd you end up playing it?
Looking back, I'll change my assessment and agree with Ty. This hole is just brutal and you need to avoid the water. I don't think I was thinking about the distance numbers properly when you originally posted this. Best play for you is probably 7i off the tee. 7i lay up. Dump a wedge or 9i into the middle of the green and move on with the understanding that you're probably not giving up much if you take 5 on that hole.
Still haven’t played it actually. I ended up signing up for DECADE and been practicing it the last month or two. I agree when I play I’m probably hitting a couple mid irons and based on my stats I do fairly well from 100-150 so even laying up in that range I’ve got a decent chance to make a 5 and move on.
I’m really interested in this concept.
Is it only penalty hazards you take into consideration when using the flow chart, only my home course is a tree/rough lined downland one and only 4 holes have adjacent fairways, so I’m unsure how you implement the ‘rules’?
Pretty much. Bunkers can be taken into account too depending on how bad they are. I recommend everyone sign up for decade for at least 6 months. The info you get is more than worth the $200 you pay.
Thanks, I think I’m going to give it a go. I’d only spend it on another club anyway!
Idk.. I want to know what a person's dispersion is when firing at a flag versus when firing at a random point on the green. Because my gut says you will have a much tigher dispersion firing at a flag then a vague point on the green.
Are you a scratch player? A: I sure am—every time I hit the ball I scratch my head and wonder where it went.
One of the things Scott mentions a LOT is Tiger being asked if he plays aggressively or conservatively. Tiger said he plays aggressively to his spots. The discussion then centers around what Tiger means when he says his spots. I think Scott would tell you those spots are fairly conservative. But he plays aggressively to them. I wouldn't classify it as a vague point on the green. He talks at length about figuring out where the lines are. As one example (don't want to give away the whole thing), he has a par three where he's figuring out where to hit it. He extends the line he comes up with through the green and finds a street sign behind it that happens to be bang on the line, so that's the target. It's a specific point target, just not the flag.
The above comment hits the nail on the head. You’re still picking a very specific target and trying to hit the ball to that target. One of the hardest things for a lot of people is learning to not hit to certain flags. Also keep in mind it’s not like you NEVER go for the pin. You just don’t go for it in all situations. The question is how much do I NOT want to short side myself. From there you can figure out if you can go for the pin and I’d not whats the ideal place to try to put the ball that will give you the lowest possible scoring average. One of those things is making less bogeys or higher. Making your target more to the fat side of the green and short siding yourself less will result in less bogeys and higher. It will also result in a higher number of pars and a similar number of birdies because quite frankly everyone is using a shotgun to some degree and they’ll accidentally knock some close and accidentally make a couple putts.
In this vid, pro says it's the widest landing area on the whole golf course @ 220 yards. Assume that would leave about 200 in ?
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