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Big Bad Low Spin Shaft Review - Continuous On Going Information and Data Updates

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  • J13J13 Dad golf  15883Members Posts: 15,883
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2017 #152



    That black mamba is sweet and rather intriguing! Is it worth giving up my Dual Core for? I'm pretty happy with it but this is the wrx community haha.




    I've got a Dual Core 70 TX coming as well... Replacing the Rogue Silver 110....any direct comparisons by chance?




    The DC TX = Porsche, Rogue silver 110 = Hyundai Accent.
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic Flash Triple Diamond 9* / Mitsu Tensei Pro White 70TX
    Fairway wood - Under construction
    Irons - Under Construction
    Wedges - Under Construction
    Odyssey Stroke Lab Double Wide Flow Neck
    Srixon Zstar XV

    WITB- http://www.golfwrx.c.../page__st__1590


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  • therealjonzonetherealjonzone  2505Members Posts: 2,505
    Joined:  #153
    J13 wrote:




    That black mamba is sweet and rather intriguing! Is it worth giving up my Dual Core for? I'm pretty happy with it but this is the wrx community haha.




    I've got a Dual Core 70 TX coming as well... Replacing the Rogue Silver 110....any direct comparisons by chance?




    The DC TX = Porsche, Rogue silver 110 = Hyundai Accent.




    Ah J, great analogy LOL. I was moreso inquiring on subjective comparison information LOL
    Posted:
  • ryborybo  2238Members Posts: 2,238
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2017 #154
    Picked up a used Tensei Pro White that was tipped 1 1/2" and using it in a 3 wood at 43 7/8"(usually play my 3 wood at 44"), it is phenomenal! Ordered a new Pro Orange 70TX for the driver tipped it 1" and it's significantly softer in the butt end. Like two entirely different shafts not from the same family. It's not unplayable but for a slight overlength build at 46 1/4" it's no where near the point and shoot of the White. Went with it due to the slight counterbalance. I'll give a few more rounds but it's looking like it will be going to the BST.



    A little surprised by the Pro White being like a Dynamic Gold comments. I do not care for DG's and the Pro Orange feels more like a DG to me. A bit too flexy under the hands.



    Does the Dual Core TX have a more butt stiff profile?
    Posted:
  • RonSwansonRonSwanson Honor: if you need it defined, you don’t have it.  1742ClubWRX Posts: 1,742
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2017 #155
    rybo wrote:


    Picked up a used Tensei Pro White that was tipped 1 1/2" and using it in a 3 wood at 43 7/8"(usually play my 3 wood at 44"), it is phenomenal! Ordered a new Pro Orange 70TX for the driver tipped it 1" and it's significantly softer in the butt end. Like two entirely different shafts not from the same family. It's not unplayable but for a slight overlength build at 46 1/4" it's no where near the point and shoot of the White. Went with it due to the slight counterbalance. I'll give a few more rounds but it's looking like it will be going to the BST.



    A little surprised by the Pro White being like a Dynamic Gold comments. I do not care for DG's and the Pro Orange feels more like a DG to me. A bit too flexy under the hands.



    Does the Dual Core TX have a more butt stiff profile?




    Can you even get a 46 1/4" playing length after tipping 1"? I guess that could be the max if there is no butt trim, the adapter/install adds an inch and the butt end of the grip adds 1/4". But man, that must feel like swinging a finishing poll. Not sure I would classify that as a slight overlength build...



    To the other part of your post, the DC TX felt much more stable than the Pro Orange for me. I would agree the Pro Orange feels more like a DG than the White does.
    Posted:
  • ryborybo  2238Members Posts: 2,238
    Joined:  edited Jun 6, 2017 #156
    RonSwanson wrote:

    rybo wrote:


    Picked up a used Tensei Pro White that was tipped 1 1/2" and using it in a 3 wood at 43 7/8"(usually play my 3 wood at 44"), it is phenomenal! Ordered a new Pro Orange 70TX for the driver tipped it 1" and it's significantly softer in the butt end. Like two entirely different shafts not from the same family. It's not unplayable but for a slight overlength build at 46 1/4" it's no where near the point and shoot of the White. Went with it due to the slight counterbalance. I'll give a few more rounds but it's looking like it will be going to the BST.



    A little surprised by the Pro White being like a Dynamic Gold comments. I do not care for DG's and the Pro Orange feels more like a DG to me. A bit too flexy under the hands.



    Does the Dual Core TX have a more butt stiff profile?




    Can you even get a 46 1/4" playing length after tipping 1"? I guess that could be the max if there is not butt trim, the adapter/install adds an inch and the butt end of the grip adds 1/4". But man, that must feel like swinging a finishing poll. Not sure I would classify that as a slight overlength build...



    To the other part of your post, the DC TX felt much more stable than the Pro Orange for me. I would agree the Pro Orange feels more like a DG than the White does.




    Still had to trim the butt 5/8". I'm 6' 4" and 46 1/4" is probably still a little short for my height. It's only an 1" longer then standard for people who average 5' 9"! Look at my profile pic, Gary Williams is 5' 9" and even standing on a box is still not as tall as 6' 4" Rymer! Rory plays 45 1/2" and is a bit vertically challenged.



    Duffner just won two days ago and plays 46".
    Posted:
  • RonSwansonRonSwanson Honor: if you need it defined, you don’t have it.  1742ClubWRX Posts: 1,742
    Joined:  #157
    rybo wrote:




    Still had to trim the butt 5/8". I'm 6' 4" and 46 1/4" is probably still a little short for my height. It's only an 1" longer then standard for people who average 5' 9"! Look at my profile pic, Gary Williams is 5' 9" and even standing on a box is still not as tall as 6' 4" Rymer! Rory plays 45 1/2" and is a bit vertically challenged.



    Duffner just won two days ago and plays 46".




    I didn't mean that to come off as a dig. Everyone should play whatever works best for them. I'm 6' 2" and play my driver at either 45" or 44 3/4".



    I honestly didn't know if 46 1/4" was possible as I thought the raw shafts were 46", so tipping 1" would leave you at 45" raw. I wasn't sure if you could get to 46 1/4" playing length without some sort of extension, but I could obviously be wrong on any of these assumptions.
    Posted:
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  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Minnesota, USA 6833Members Posts: 6,833
    Joined:  #158
    RonSwanson wrote:

    rybo wrote:


    Still had to trim the butt 5/8". I'm 6' 4" and 46 1/4" is probably still a little short for my height. It's only an 1" longer then standard for people who average 5' 9"! Look at my profile pic, Gary Williams is 5' 9" and even standing on a box is still not as tall as 6' 4" Rymer! Rory plays 45 1/2" and is a bit vertically challenged.



    Duffner just won two days ago and plays 46".




    I didn't mean that to come off as a dig. Everyone should play whatever works best for them. I'm 6' 2" and play my driver at either 45" or 44 3/4".



    I honestly didn't know if 46 1/4" was possible as I thought the raw shafts were 46", so tipping 1" would leave you at 45" raw. I wasn't sure if you could get to 46 1/4" playing length without some sort of extension, but I could obviously be wrong on any of these assumptions.




    Virtually all drivers have some distance from the ground to the bottom of the bore. A bore-thru head is usually 0". Modern 460cc drivers vary, but I've seen 2" or more in some cases.
    Posted:
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Golden Ram TW805, Precision 6.5, 43.25"
    3w:  Golden Ram 16*, Precision 6.5, 42"
    2i:  Mizuno Pro, DGS300
    3-PW:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300
    2-PW:  Golden Ram Tour Grinds, Dynamic S
    GW:  Dynacraft forged 52*, DGS400 (not carried with Golden Rams)
    SW:  Wilson Staff PMP 58*
    Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane/Professional, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar, Snell MTB Black, Vice Pro Lime... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time

    Driver Substitutes: Golden Ram TW801 or TW802, DGS300
  • HidekiWoodsHidekiWoods  258Members Posts: 258
    Joined:  #159
    I know it depends on the swing, but which shaft is lower launch and spin, pro orange or D.C. Xt?
    Posted:
    Epic SZ
    Apex Hybrid
    Srixon Z965
    MD Wedges

    Night and Day Proto
  • tarmactrrtarmactrr  180Members Posts: 180
    Joined:  #160
    What's your take on that Tensei Pro Orange V3, vs and Oban Kiyoshi (either White or Tour Limited) for feel and performance for a 120mph SS? It seems like the higher the SS the better performance with it.
    Posted:
  • tarmactrrtarmactrr  180Members Posts: 180
    Joined:  #161
    NRJyzr wrote:

    RonSwanson wrote:

    rybo wrote:


    Still had to trim the butt 5/8". I'm 6' 4" and 46 1/4" is probably still a little short for my height. It's only an 1" longer then standard for people who average 5' 9"! Look at my profile pic, Gary Williams is 5' 9" and even standing on a box is still not as tall as 6' 4" Rymer! Rory plays 45 1/2" and is a bit vertically challenged.



    Duffner just won two days ago and plays 46".




    I didn't mean that to come off as a dig. Everyone should play whatever works best for them. I'm 6' 2" and play my driver at either 45" or 44 3/4".



    I honestly didn't know if 46 1/4" was possible as I thought the raw shafts were 46", so tipping 1" would leave you at 45" raw. I wasn't sure if you could get to 46 1/4" playing length without some sort of extension, but I could obviously be wrong on any of these assumptions.




    Virtually all drivers have some distance from the ground to the bottom of the bore. A bore-thru head is usually 0". Modern 460cc drivers vary, but I've seen 2" or more in some cases.




    I know most TM drivers are 1.5'' added from shaft length to playing length.
    Posted:
  • RonSwansonRonSwanson Honor: if you need it defined, you don’t have it.  1742ClubWRX Posts: 1,742
    Joined:  #162
    tarmactrr wrote:

    NRJyzr wrote:

    RonSwanson wrote:

    rybo wrote:


    Still had to trim the butt 5/8". I'm 6' 4" and 46 1/4" is probably still a little short for my height. It's only an 1" longer then standard for people who average 5' 9"! Look at my profile pic, Gary Williams is 5' 9" and even standing on a box is still not as tall as 6' 4" Rymer! Rory plays 45 1/2" and is a bit vertically challenged.



    Duffner just won two days ago and plays 46".




    I didn't mean that to come off as a dig. Everyone should play whatever works best for them. I'm 6' 2" and play my driver at either 45" or 44 3/4".



    I honestly didn't know if 46 1/4" was possible as I thought the raw shafts were 46", so tipping 1" would leave you at 45" raw. I wasn't sure if you could get to 46 1/4" playing length without some sort of extension, but I could obviously be wrong on any of these assumptions.




    Virtually all drivers have some distance from the ground to the bottom of the bore. A bore-thru head is usually 0". Modern 460cc drivers vary, but I've seen 2" or more in some cases.




    I know most TM drivers are 1.5'' added from shaft length to playing length.




    The 2017 M1 440 and 2017 M2 both add exactly 1" on the T1100 and the KK DC TX with 1.5* tour tip I have. However I have found the new TM tips add an additional 1/4". So, at least for TM, length will depend on the variety of tip you use.
    Posted:
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #163
    kmak wrote:


    Do you think you might get the results posted for us mere mortals (100 mph) before the season is over? image/rockon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rockon:' />




    I'll have those up tonight. I've been stuck on the test range for the last 2 days so I've had zero computer time.
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #164


    That black mamba is sweet and rather intriguing! Is it worth giving up my Dual Core for? I'm pretty happy with it but this is the wrx community haha.




    It's a very similar shaft but maybe a little more crisp without being harsh. I certainly won't say it's a better shaft than Dual Core XT, but if you like the dcxt you'll like the Black Mamba.
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #165
    rybo wrote:


    Picked up a used Tensei Pro White that was tipped 1 1/2" and using it in a 3 wood at 43 7/8"(usually play my 3 wood at 44"), it is phenomenal! Ordered a new Pro Orange 70TX for the driver tipped it 1" and it's significantly softer in the butt end. Like two entirely different shafts not from the same family. It's not unplayable but for a slight overlength build at 46 1/4" it's no where near the point and shoot of the White. Went with it due to the slight counterbalance. I'll give a few more rounds but it's looking like it will be going to the BST.



    A little surprised by the Pro White being like a Dynamic Gold comments. I do not care for DG's and the Pro Orange feels more like a DG to me. A bit too flexy under the hands.



    Does the Dual Core TX have a more butt stiff profile?




    Yes dual core XT is stiffer in the butt.
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #166


    I know it depends on the swing, but which shaft is lower launch and spin, pro orange or D.C. Xt?




    The spin is going to be very similar but all things being equal, Kuro Kàge Dual Core XT will launch a little flatter.
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  • pitchinwedgepitchinwedge  1555Members Posts: 1,555
    Joined:  #167
    Toll, which KK shaft are you guys testing? The MRC website shows the Silver Dual-Core TiNi and the XT. I thought there was another Dual-Core shaft that's actually a proto in disguise? KKDC TX flex maybe (not listed on the website)? Assuming the 100mph guys aren't testing X-flex shafts so aren't they testing an entirely different KK shaft?
    Posted:
    917 D2 8.50* - Tensei CK Pro White 60
    917 F2 13.5* - Rogue Max 70
    816 H2 19.0* - D+ Plus 90
    716 T-MB (3i, 4i) - Modus 120
    716 CB (5-PW) - Modus 120
    Hogan TK15 - 49, 55
    Edel Deschutes

    Photo WITB
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  • manima1manima1 Chicago 736Members Posts: 736
    Joined:  #168


    Toll, which KK shaft are you guys testing? The MRC website shows the Silver Dual-Core TiNi and the XT. I thought there was another Dual-Core shaft that's actually a proto in disguise? KKDC TX flex maybe (not listed on the website)? Assuming the 100mph guys aren't testing X-flex shafts so aren't they testing an entirely different KK shaft?




    JT will confirm, but I've seen him explain it enough...



    The KKDC shaft in TX flex is the updated Dual Core XT profile and is Tour-only. The Tx flex designation is the only visual cue that sets it apart from the standard dual core lineup. It is not listed on the MRC website - if you look, you will see there is no TX flex for the Dual Core shafts.
    Posted:
    M5 9.0 - Kuro Kage Dual Core 80tx 
    '16 M2HL 16.8 tour issued deep faced - Fujikura 8.3 TS
    zU45 18 degree - S400
    z745 4-9 - S400
    SM6 46.08F - S400 Chrome
    SM6 50.08F - S400 Steel Gray
    SM7 54.10S - S400 Raw
    TM Hi-Toe 60.12ATV - S400 Black
    TM Spider X - Navy
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #169
    manima1 wrote:



    Toll, which KK shaft are you guys testing? The MRC website shows the Silver Dual-Core TiNi and the XT. I thought there was another Dual-Core shaft that's actually a proto in disguise? KKDC TX flex maybe (not listed on the website)? Assuming the 100mph guys aren't testing X-flex shafts so aren't they testing an entirely different KK shaft?




    JT will confirm, but I've seen him explain it enough...



    The KKDC shaft in TX flex is the updated Dual Core XT profile and is Tour-only. The Tx flex designation is the only visual cue that sets it apart from the standard dual core lineup. It is not listed on the MRC website - if you look, you will see there is no TX flex for the Dual Core shafts.




    That is correct.
    Posted:
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #170
    tarmactrr wrote:


    What's your take on that Tensei Pro Orange V3, vs and Oban Kiyoshi (either White or Tour Limited) for feel and performance for a 120mph SS? It seems like the higher the SS the better performance with it.




    Kiyoshi white is also somewhat butt flexible which gives it a smoother feel than the black, but the difference is pro orange is extremely tip stiff with the MR70 tip, which is much like the T1100 fiber used in the Hzrdus of the same name. The Kevlar in the pro orange butt helps absorb the shock and keeps the vibration down, making the shaft feel smooth without the harshness that you expect from a tip that stiff. Basically the pro orange will spin less and feel smoother than the kiyoshi white with a similar type of profile.
    Posted:
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  • tarmactrrtarmactrr  180Members Posts: 180
    Joined:  #171
    TollBros wrote:

    tarmactrr wrote:


    What's your take on that Tensei Pro Orange V3, vs and Oban Kiyoshi (either White or Tour Limited) for feel and performance for a 120mph SS? It seems like the higher the SS the better performance with it.




    Kiyoshi white is also somewhat butt flexible which gives it a smoother feel than the black, but the difference is pro orange is extremely tip stiff with the MR70 tip, which is much like the T1100 fiber used in the Hzrdus of the same name. The Kevlar in the pro orange butt helps absorb the shock and keeps the vibration down, making the shaft feel smooth without the harshness that you expect from a tip that stiff. Basically the pro orange will spin less and feel smoother than the kiyoshi white with a similar type of profile.




    Sounds like I should try one... although I currently spin the Oban White at around 2,000 rpm now... so don't need an even lower spinning shaft. Thanks for the reply image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:
  • ruxpin23ruxpin23  136Members Posts: 136
    Joined:  #172
    manima1 wrote:



    Toll, which KK shaft are you guys testing? The MRC website shows the Silver Dual-Core TiNi and the XT. I thought there was another Dual-Core shaft that's actually a proto in disguise? KKDC TX flex maybe (not listed on the website)? Assuming the 100mph guys aren't testing X-flex shafts so aren't they testing an entirely different KK shaft?




    JT will confirm, but I've seen him explain it enough...



    The KKDC shaft in TX flex is the updated Dual Core XT profile and is Tour-only. The Tx flex designation is the only visual cue that sets it apart from the standard dual core lineup. It is not listed on the MRC website - if you look, you will see there is no TX flex for the Dual Core shafts.




    just to confirm, the KKDC will have the "TX" written on the shaft as the flex designation, but does it also have the "silver series" label on it as well?
    Posted:
    VPR Strike Driver, MRC Tensei CK Pro Orange 70TX
    VPR Strike 3 Wood, MRC Tensei CK Pro White 80TX
    2011 VR Pro Combo 3-PW, DG AMT X100
    Vokey SM7 52F 58K 62M
    2012 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2
    Nike RZN Black
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #173
    ruxpin23 wrote:

    manima1 wrote:



    Toll, which KK shaft are you guys testing? The MRC website shows the Silver Dual-Core TiNi and the XT. I thought there was another Dual-Core shaft that's actually a proto in disguise? KKDC TX flex maybe (not listed on the website)? Assuming the 100mph guys aren't testing X-flex shafts so aren't they testing an entirely different KK shaft?




    JT will confirm, but I've seen him explain it enough...



    The KKDC shaft in TX flex is the updated Dual Core XT profile and is Tour-only. The Tx flex designation is the only visual cue that sets it apart from the standard dual core lineup. It is not listed on the MRC website - if you look, you will see there is no TX flex for the Dual Core shafts.




    just to confirm, the KKDC will have the "TX" written on the shaft as the flex designation, but does it also have the "silver series" label on it as well?




    Yes.
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  • ebrasmus21ebrasmus21 Serial Shanker CA 5884Members Posts: 5,884
    Joined:  #174
    TollBros - thanks for all this information. Do you have any experience with the Tour AD GP? If so, is the GP similar to any of the shafts in this data set you've compiled?
    Posted:
    G400 LST - TPT proto
    TM M3 - Rogue Silver 110MSI 70S
    21* Fourteen Type 7 Driving Iron - HZRDUS Black 6.5 105g
    4 - PW Mizuno MP 18 MMC - SteelFiber FC115
    50, 54, 60 RC Dual Bite - SteelFiber i125
    Evnroll ER5
    Snell MTB Black
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #175
    Here are some good pics of how the Mamba shafts pop visually in the Sun.



    Posted:
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  • HidekiWoodsHidekiWoods  258Members Posts: 258
    Joined:  #176
    Any updates on when the black mamba and copperhead will hit the market? Can't find one anywhere.
    Posted:
    Epic SZ
    Apex Hybrid
    Srixon Z965
    MD Wedges

    Night and Day Proto
  • TG_343TG_343  334Members Posts: 334
    Joined:  #177
    I can attest to the black looking amazing in person. I was able to snag a Tour Proto version of the black and it's sick.
    Posted:
    TaylorMade M5 - 10.5 deg - w/ Aldila Synergy Black 60-TX tipped 0.5 - 44.75"
    Adams XTD TI - 2 hybrid (16.5 deg) - Matrix HM3 105g X
    TaylorMade P790 - 3i (1 deg weak) - KBS C-Taper Lite-X (ss1)
    TaylorMade P790 - 4-6: (2 deg weak) - KBS C-Taper 130x (ss1)
    Adams MB2 - 7-PW: KBS C-Taper 130x (ss1)
    Titleist Vokey SM4: 50 F Grind - KBS C-Taper 130x (ss1)
    Callaway PM Grind 56 - bent to 55, PM Grind 60 - Dynamic Gold TI s400
    Tiger NP2 Replica G.O.A.T.: - 35.5in

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  • hwu1hwu1  38Members Posts: 38
    Joined:  #178
    JT-



    do you have data for yourself on the copperhead?
    Posted:
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #179


    Any updates on when the black mamba and copperhead will hit the market? Can't find one anywhere.




    Tour only.
    Posted:
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range  4902Sponsors Posts: 4,902
    Joined:  #180
    hwu1 wrote:


    JT-



    do you have data for yourself on the copperhead?




    I do have data with the M2 head, yes.
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  • tommaso05tommaso05 Columbus, Ohio 253Members Posts: 253
    Joined:  #181
    I was pointed this way by another forum member as I'm interested in seeing/hearing about the test results for these shafts since 1 might be in my near future (and I gotta figure out which might be best). Just wanted to say thanks for going through the testing and compiling everything. I'll be using the info in this thread to make a final decision once that time comes.
    Posted:
    Callaway GBB Epic SZ 10' - HZRDUS Smoke Black 60g 6.5
    Callaway Epic Flash SZ 15' - HZRDUS Smoke Black 70g 6.5
    Taylormade RBZ Tour 21' hybrid
    Ping i(e1) 4-PW - Project X 6.0 
    Titleist Vokey SM6 50.08F, 54.08M, 60.04L - KBS 610 Wedge
    Odyssey Tank Cruiser 7
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