Nobilo on golf course design yesterday.

Please tell me that my ears deceived me. Im pretty sure I heard Frank say that courses now need to be designed with wider fairways to accommodate the bombers. Well then, why have fairways? Mow everything down. Heck, just pave the entire course. No maintenance required.

Did you know that Augusta National used to be virtually no rough? Wide fairways and a very short first cut? Not all course designs incorporate tree lined narrow strips of fairway and penal rough. There are other ways for a course architect to make a course difficult.

The bombers will always have an advantage if they drive it reasonably straight. At Erin Hills they do but those that strayed missed the cut.

PS two of the top 3 on the leaderboard are not bombers.

He was just talking about landing areas farther out even as courses get longer because of length of players. Wasn't talking about "accommodating bombers" and didn't hear him use those words in the brief exchange I heard with Brandel.

Please tell me that my ears deceived me. Im pretty sure I heard Frank say that courses now need to be designed with wider fairways to accommodate the bombers. Well then, why have fairways? Mow everything down. Heck, just pave the entire course. No maintenance required.

That's how Alistair MacKenzie and Bobby Jones conceived Augusta National. There was no rough there until the 1990's. Jones had no problem with letting the hitters hit. But hitting to a specific part of the fairway made the shot to the green easier. That's why long hitters who can putt generally have an advantage at ANGC.

That's because Jones was a big hitter in his day.

Geez people cry over long hitters too much. If you want to dial back the distance you certainly could narrow up a course and add the 2 foot fescue to deter the driver. Build deeper bunkers in the fairway where only a drive of 320 yards would get in trouble.

The US Open has traditionally asked players the question "Do you really want to hit driver? Well do ya punk?". Intimidation has always been the USGA way. I normally like what Nobilo has to say but I don't like this wider fairways idea at all. Bomb and wedge is fine for 25 weeks of the year but not for the US Open. It should be tight but still reward a long hitter with balls and skill, like Tiger in 2000 or Nicklaus for 25 years . But players should know they will be looking at snowman if they choose driver unwisely.

The US Open has traditionally asked players the question "Do you really want to hit driver? Well do ya punk?". Intimidation has always been the USGA way. I normally like what Nobilo has to say but I don't like this wider fairways idea at all. Bomb and wedge is fine for 25 weeks of the year but not for the US Open. It should be tight but still reward a long hitter with balls and skill, like Tiger in 2000 or Nicklaus for 25 years . But players should know they will be looking at snowman if they choose driver unwisely.

Have you been watching?

8 of the top 12* in the world mc be because they anwsered your question incorrectly. There is no bomb and wedge out there since offline is dead.

The leaders are playing *US Open* golf. Position off the tee, laying back with fw wood/iron if necessary. Strong long approaches (its the longest open in history) and greenside play.

Watch today and youll get some Torquemada action ; )

IMO Frank is spot on with his observations.

To the OP from one of the greatest golf architects ever:

Long driving is not a crime. It is a virtue and is more frequently by skill and grace of motion than by mere force. Long drivers should be rewarded, and as a general rule they should have greater latitude, and not less, than short drivers.

- Alister Mackenzie

/thread

To the OP from one of the greatest golf architects ever:

 

Long driving is not a crime. It is a virtue and is more frequently by skill and grace of motion than by mere force. Long drivers should be rewarded, and as a general rule they should have greater latitude, and not less, than short drivers.

 

- Alister Mackenzie

 

/thread

Did you know that Augusta National used to be virtually no rough? Wide fairways and a very short first cut? Not all course designs incorporate tree lined narrow strips of fairway and penal rough. There are other ways for a course architect to make a course difficult.

The bombers will always have an advantage if they drive it reasonably straight. At Erin Hills they do but those that strayed missed the cut.

PS two of the top 3 on the leaderboard are not bombers.

Augusta still barely has any rough. Any course that will play tough to pga tour pros is going to have tough greens like Augusta. There is no defense to a tour pro other than heavily undulating, fast greens. Erin Hills didn't play easy because of the fairways, it played easy because the greens were barely undulating at all.

Long driving and accuracy should both be rewarded. Short driving will leave a longer shot into the green. But, there should be a penalty if you hit it crooked.

I thought Erin Hills got it right. Long drivers like Rory and DJ were penalized for their misses. Yes, the fairways were wide. But, in an attempt to get to a certain part of the fairway, the players took a risk and narrowed their landing areas on their own. So, a bunker in a strategic area will cause a player to play away from it and thereby narrowing the fairway from 50 yds to 25 yds. Hill and mounding can likewise cause a 50 yd fairway to narrow.

All good players play golf backwards, from the green to the tee. When they're on the tee, they ask themselves where is the best spot on the hole to come into the green given where the flag and potential problems near the green are. They generally want to be putting uphill and avoid at all costs shortsiding and getting into a position where they can't get up and down. So, if the flat part of the fairway is on the left and provides the best angle into the green, they will aim down the left and effectively cut the size of the fairway on their own. The course architect can dictate all of this with a variety of design factors at his disposal. The fairway may look 50 yds wide at the tee, but the design might functionally cut that desired target area by a 1/3 to a 1/2. If you want to make a birdie, you go through a risk/reward assessment to put yourself in the ideal portion of the fairway and take on more risk to do so. It's the subtleties that separate great designers and great layouts.