Spieth reminds me of Tom Watson

Back in the old days, Tom Watson had the reputation of always making the amazing shot that won the tournament. "Doing a Watson!" was defined as holing a shot or a long putt to win just when you thought he might be folding. What happened at 17 at Pebble Beach for the US Open is a good example, only one of many. There were articles questioning his ball striking skills in the golf magazines (no internet back then). One golf magazine even described him as having being the best short game in the world coupled with the ball striking of a 4 handicap. A totally absurd statement but it reflected his ability to get the ball in the hole when it mattered. Even if he wasn't hitting it as solid as Nicklaus.

Spieth's ability to pull off the amazing once in a life-time shot when it matters is very similar. How many players have holed bunker shots to win tournaments twice? As Daniel Berger put it: "Jordan being Jordan".

This ability to pull off an amazing shot under intense pressure repeatedly is an intangible that separates the truly greats from the very good. Tom Watson clearly had it and it appears Jordan does too.

Nice comparison, what I think is the case with Watson and Spieth as well is that they're such great competitors. Too many players seem to be focused on how their swing looks and how they hit the ball, and when their swings goes slightly astray when the pressure is on, they don't know what to do.

Seems to be that Spieth is not too concerned with aesthetics, just golf that works, all about getting the lowest score. On the first playoff hole, he hit it 210 off the tee and ends up birdieing the hole. I think some players would have been rattled by hitting such a bad tee shot, but not Spieth.

Tom said he didn't figure out his swing till like 1992, after he had basically quit winning. Search Youtube for Tom Watson's Secret.

Somewhere in the 1980's Tom went from being the best putter in the world to being a bit yippy. His ball striking kept getting better, ( I would argue maybe one of the best swings in the game later in his career) and his putting kept getting worse. He contended again in several majors and won a few more events but he was never dominant like he was in the late 70's and early 80's

No 2 careers are the same but I get the comparison. The biggest difference is, is that Tom came along when Jack was starting to slow down a bit and took some majors from his, Tom basically looked the GOAT in the eye and knocked him off his perch. When JS came along Tiger was pretty much done and not winning any longer, so he is really just competing against everyone else. They are the same in that they both have had some inconsistency and squandered some opportunities early in their career's, while JS took advantage of some as well.

I don't know if JS will win 8 majors, but I could see him approaching Tom's numbers if he stays motivated to do so. I am worried his is following Tom's footsteps and getting a bit yippy, although he may overcome it.....or he may not. Their short games are very comparable in my opinion, and they both seem to play well when the wind blows and scrambling is important.

Not even close yet.

Get back to me after Spieth wins at least two Open Championships and we'll see what else he's done. That tournament defined Watson more than anything in my book. Not seeing the other comparison, but that's my memory and it's not perfect. Not a lot about careers really similar at Spieth's age and their playing styles are not similar.

Watson had the miracle shot at Pebble, and he had a well deserved reputation for great recovery shots (finding trouble a lot) and closing the deal around the greens with a great short game and a bold putting stroke. I watched his whole career and just don't have the memory of all these 18th hole amazing shots to win tournaments. He also was better known for a long time, unlike Spieth, for being a bridesmaid more than a bride. I see more Seve in Watson, if I had to make a choice among multiple major winners.

Even in his prime, he still could be a little iffy with a tournament on the line. Thinking of a couple Masters, a US Open and a couple PGAs in particular.

Jordan has a great short game, Tom had a great short game (still have his book) and better ball striker and longer - lots of guys have had great short games.

Not even close yet.

Correct. At 23 years old JS is much more accomplished than Watson, if my math is correct Tom didn't win his first PGA even till he was 25 years old. However.....things changed rapidly for in the next season. From 1975 to 1985 Tom won all of his majors and the bulk of his tour events. Basically 26 to 36 years old.

Tom is one of my favorite players of all-time, for the record, and I have no idea if JS will ever achieve that kind of greatness, but I do think it is an interesting comparison.

Get back to me after Spieth wins at least two Open Championships and we'll see what else he's done. That tournament defined Watson more than anything in my book. Not seeing the other comparison, but that's my memory and it's not perfect. Not a lot about careers really similar at Spieth's age and their playing styles are not similar.

 

Watson had the miracle shot at Pebble, and he had a well deserved reputation for great recovery shots (finding trouble a lot) and closing the deal around the greens with a great short game and a bold putting stroke. I watched his whole career and just don't have the memory of all these 18th hole amazing shots to win tournaments. He also was better known for a long time, unlike Spieth, for being a bridesmaid more than a bride. I see more Seve in Watson, if I had to make a choice among multiple major winners.

 

Even in his prime, he still could be a little iffy with a tournament on the line. Thinking of a couple Masters, a US Open and a couple PGAs in particular.

 

Jordan has a great short game, Tom had a great short game (still have his book) and better ball striker and longer - lots of guys have had great short games.

Yep, Tom let a few get away, and he took a few maybe he shouldn't have. But no one really talks about him as a top 5 player all time, he's kind of on that 2nd tier ahead of guys like Mickelson, Faldo and Seve but behind guys like Hogan, Snead, Tiger and Jack. He is arguably the best links player of the modern era, if not all time and he made a lot of history.

I guess the way he scrambles, and makes it look difficult, yet still wins is a fair comparison to Watson. JS blew the Masters, and arguably the Open at St. Andrews with some shaky shots when he could have won, but he has a flair for the dramatic as well. Their style of play is pretty similar although Watson may have been a bit longer for his era relative to the equipment of the day.

Lets face facts here, holing a bunker shot, a jab chip from deep rough or a long range bump and run are strictly a matter of luck. Now it's great to be good and even better if luck is on your side, but lets not kid ourselves, it's luck that JS made that shot. Heck, look at the putt he thought he didn't hit right and it went in, much to his surprise. Apparently, even though he tried desperately to give the tournament away, the golfing deities said nah! nah! and allowed him the win. It's good to be lucky and have friends in HIGH places.......

first off

Jordan was very lucky yesterday

Yipping putts and he stayed out of the water twice when he shouldn't have

Holing that bunker shot was stock stuff - a slasher 4 cap hacker like myself is inside 8 feet most of the time

Watson's feat at Pebble (and his history) were far FAR more impressive

I don't like his twitchiness, pouting and whining ... oh well ... kid can score though

Lets face facts here, holing a bunker shot, a jab chip from deep rough or a long range bump and run are strictly a matter of luck. Now it's great to be good and even better if luck is on your side, but lets not kid ourselves, it's luck that JS made that shot. Heck, look at the putt he thought he didn't hit right and it went in, much to his surprise. Apparently, even though he tried desperately to give the tournament away, the golfing deities said nah! nah! and allowed him the win. It's good to be lucky and have friends in HIGH places.......

The better you are the luckier you seem to get. So if you are always around the hole with your bunker shots and giving them a chance to go in sooner or later you will drop a few. The odds are in your favor. Tiger was always dropping putts or making spectacular shots, Jack was famous for always holing his putt on 18. Some guys just have a flair for the dramatic and can hyper focus under intense pressure, while some cave under the pressure.

This is why we have people holing shots for wins or making putts and we have people like Greg Norman who always seemed snake bit. Some people create their destiny while some let others determine it for them.

In my opinion this is why I think JS will win more big events, he seems to have "it" when needed, not that he is at the level of Tiger but he has a bit of the "it factor" to pull off the dramatic when he needs it on occasion.

I think Jordan is a lot of talent followed by just a little bit of luck at the right time. You can't discount luck in golf and the kid gets a lot of it. You need talent to take advantage of luck but a little luck is a real factor when doing things like holing out a bunker shot.

No to me. His luck will run out.

first off

 

Jordan was very lucky yesterday

 

Yipping putts and he stayed out of the water twice when he shouldn't have

 

Holing that bunker shot was stock stuff - a slasher 4 cap hacker like myself is inside 8 feet most of the time

 

Watson's feat at Pebble (and his history) were far FAR more impressive

 

I don't like his twitchiness, pouting and whining ... oh well ... kid can score though

Sure, not the hardest bunker shot, as bunker shots go. But considering it was for the win, and considering his average shot from that spot would be much closer to the hole than any single digit handicap player, it was pretty impressive. You know in his mind he thought he was going to make it. How may do you think he would hole from their out of 100? 15-20? How many do you think you would make? 1 or 2? I'm a decent sand player and have a good short game in general (used to be a 5 now a 10 because of some health issues) but my short game is low/single level. I dunno, some guys just pull it off when it counts. If it didn't go in it as an easy par, and no telling if Berger gets up and down anyway.

Watson is regarded are one of golf's finest ball strikers.... Not sure that bloke who wrote that article had ever seen Watson.hit a ball. Plus Watson is one of the all time greats....Speith has some catching up to do, but hey he's going in the right direction

Not even close yet.

 

Correct. At 23 years old JS is much more accomplished than Watson, if my math is correct Tom didn't win his first PGA even till he was 25 years old. However.....things changed rapidly for in the next season. From 1975 to 1985 Tom won all of his majors and the bulk of his tour events. Basically 26 to 36 years old.

 

Tom is one of my favorite players of all-time, for the record, and I have no idea if JS will ever achieve that kind of greatness, but I do think it is an interesting comparison.

Tom was considered a choker early on.... he could have won US opens at winged foot and Medinah, definitely winged foot. Tom overcame that and became a great champion. His 70's wilder armsy swinging, and later controlled more rotational swing, either was better than Spieth, period. Putting, they are about the same. Great clutch putters under pressure, Tom did it time after time and the Spieth kid will likely do the same. Will be interesting to see how many major spieth can collect.

PS: did Spieth really yip some out there on Sunday, or just pull the trigger a bit too soon ??

Watch this. Tom was a pretty inconsistent ball striker in his prime. He was either great or missing the cut and spraying it. After he learned his "secret" he hit the ball great but forgot how to make putts. Such is life and golf.. Still one of my favorite swings of all time. Give me video of Sam Snead and Watson and that's all I really need to see.

Lets face facts here, holing a bunker shot, a jab chip from deep rough or a long range bump and run are strictly a matter of luck. Now it's great to be good and even better if luck is on your side, but lets not kid ourselves, it's luck that JS made that shot. Heck, look at the putt he thought he didn't hit right and it went in, much to his surprise. Apparently, even though he tried desperately to give the tournament away, the golfing deities said nah! nah! and allowed him the win. It's good to be lucky and have friends in HIGH places.......

You guys attributing his success to luck simply don't get it and it's why you'll never be great golfers. Jordan is "lucky" because he works his *** off, and has been doing so since he was a boy. He spends more time practicing bunker shots than any of you spend on the driving range during a week. To say that putt dropping was luck is also absurd. It turns out he put a solid stroke on the ball (like always) but misread the putt and made it. He makes a lot of putts because, as I said before, he spends more time practicing his putting than any of you probably even play golf in a week. Man, I find it absurd that you would say it's luck he made that bunker shot. He's done it TWICE now to win a TOUR event. Do you think it was lucky that the great Claude Harmon would end every bunker lesson he had by holing at least one bunker shot? You just don't understand how good these guys are. Jordan played the same bunker shot in regulation and barely missed it. He's not like you and worried he's going to blade it over the green. He actually has the ability to adjust the shot slightly from how he played it earlier.

To suggest it was luck that his ball didn't go in the water on the short back 9 is also ridiculous. He hit hybrid off the tee because he knew his miss was a hook and wanted to avoid the water, which he did. That par 5 where he couldn't bail out on the tee gave him fits all week, and he played it horribly. He caught a break there on Sunday, but not the rest of the week.

It's a lot easier just to assume someone is lucky rather than admitting they just work a lot harder than you.

Lastly, Tom Watson's chip on 17 at Pebble may have had an element of luck, but he played that shot exactly how he intended to. He knew before he hit it that he was using the pin as a backstop. Listen to him re-telling the story, which he's done a million times. He always knew it would come out with speed. Never did he plan on playing a slow rolling chip shot because it was impossible. Tom was just that good with the short game at the time.

I HATE when people call golfers, particularly Spieth, lucky. People used to call Tiger Woods lucky too until he started packing on muscle in the gym and got a little older. There's no luck about it. Jordan has learned to score from anywhere on the course, whereas other players give up when they start hitting it wild. All you guys going on about luck, Jordan should stop practicing so hard if he's as lucky as you guys say he is. Ten wins and two majors but yep, his luck will run out. Michael Jordan must have been lucky during his last three-peat because he wasn't the most talented, athletic player on the floor anymore. How could a guy in his mid-late 30's possibly dominate? Luck right? Couldn't possibly be that he understood the game better than everyone else, played to his strengths, and knew how to win.

What the heck is luck, anyway? He hit the ball on 13 just far enough left that it did not go into the water. He hit the ball on 15 just short enough that it did not go into the water. Who are you to say it should have gone into the water either time? I didn't see a hand reach down from Heaven and stop either one from going into the water.

Physics are physics. You scoffers and your blind hate cause you to blame some imaginary force for allowing someone that you do not like to win.

In his prime Tom didn't hit the fairway as often as Jordan does, but he was among the longest on tour. I imagine he'd be accused of being a "bomb and gouger" if he were playing today. And of course, Tom possessed one of the best short games of all time in his prime. He was labelled a choker in the mid 1970s and even in his prime in 1978 he blew a 5 shot lead at Pebble Beach to lose his best chance at a PGA. On the other hand, he faced down and beat Jack four times. Spieth is certainly in the mold of Watson and Seve and later Phil and to a certain extent Tiger. They may be all over the course, but they're still dangerous. I think Spieth will wind up with a career somewhere in the Watson/ Phil neighborhood.

What the heck is luck, anyway? He hit the ball on 13 just far enough left that it did not go into the water. He hit the ball on 15 just short enough that it did not go into the water. Who are you to say it should have gone into the water either time? I didn't see a hand reach down from Heaven and stop either one from going into the water.

 

Physics are physics. You scoffers and your blind hate cause you to blame some imaginary force for allowing someone that you do not like to win.

Was 15 the short par 4? He said to his caddie I want to hit hybrid to stay short of the water. I think he was surprised it went that far, of course he pull hooked it. Fact is if he would have hit 3 wood or driver he would have been wet, so his course management saved him even if he did get a bit lucky.

you guys must be bad bunker players, that is the simplest shot in the world for any pro or half decent am. Give me a 20 yard shot over water or a trap off a tight lie and I'd skank one for sure

Azinger did same at MVillage to beat Payne one year ... and Kuch did it at Harbor Town not long ago as well

Not even in the same conversation.

Besides, Watson has a beautiful swing- for the ages. He's written books about his swing and his short game.

Spieth's swing is terrible- pure dog-S !!!

JS just has that intangible gift, luck, intelligence, skill, etc. etc. Whatever it is .... it is working at the moment.

Hope he keeps it going. I like his fiery passion.

you guys must be bad bunker players, that is the simplest shot in the world for any pro or half decent am. Give me a 20 yard shot over water or a trap off a tight lie and I'd skank one for sure

 

Azinger did same at MVillage to beat Payne one year ... and Kuch did it at Harbor Town not long ago as well

well maybe you got some mad bunker skillz, but making that for the win is pretty impressive. Most Am's I know might get a bit chunky with that one under that kind of pressure. FOR THE WIN!!

Regardless it was fun to watch.

What is it with Spieth?

It seems that he elicits strong emotional reactions both loving and hating. I haven't been following the tour for the last oooooh, 12 years or so, but this guy really seems to bring it out of people. A little here, but I've seen it on other forums and message boards. Even at our golf course. To me, he seems like a tasty flavor of vanilla ice cream. Perhaps Homemade Vanilla or New York Vanilla.

I take my ice cream seriously.

Not even in the same conversation.

 

Besides, Watson has a beautiful swing- for the ages. He's written books about his swing and his short game.

 

Spieth's swing is terrible- pure dog-S !!!

Maybe you should take him down to see Slicefixer, he'd get him straightened out. :nyam: I mean he only has 10 wins and 2 majors. :cheesy:

Spieth reminds me of

Opie Cunningham!

you guys must be bad bunker players, that is the simplest shot in the world for any pro or half decent am. Give me a 20 yard shot over water or a trap off a tight lie and I'd skank one for sure

 

Azinger did same at MVillage to beat Payne one year ... and Kuch did it at Harbor Town not long ago as well

 

well maybe you got some mad bunker skillz, but making that for the win is pretty impressive. Most Am's I know might get a bit chunky with that one under that kind of pressure. FOR THE WIN!!

 

Regardless it was fun to watch.

I am nicknamed "SandMan" at the home club to be fair. I had 3 yesterday and all 3 were well inside 4 feet, and they were a lot hard than JS's shot

It's the old sm2 vokey's ... spin city baby

What is it with Spieth?

 

It seems that he elicits strong emotional reactions both loving and hating. I haven't been following the tour for the last oooooh, 12 years or so, but this guy really seems to bring it out of people. A little here, but I've seen it on other forums and message boards. Even at our golf course. To me, he seems like a tasty flavor of vanilla ice cream. Perhaps Homemade Vanilla or New York Vanilla.

 

I take my ice cream seriously.

Really ?

Around here nobody likes a crybaby, whiner, primadonna etc ... which is why I don't know anyone over the age of 25 that likes him or JT or Bubba or Horschel

He is fine in pressers (except for the "we" nonsense) but his on course theatrics are like a 13 yr old brat

What is it with Spieth?

 

It seems that he elicits strong emotional reactions both loving and hating. I haven't been following the tour for the last oooooh, 12 years or so, but this guy really seems to bring it out of people. A little here, but I've seen it on other forums and message boards. Even at our golf course. To me, he seems like a tasty flavor of vanilla ice cream. Perhaps Homemade Vanilla or New York Vanilla.

 

I take my ice cream seriously.

 

Really ?

 

Around here nobody likes a crybaby, whiner, primadonna etc ... which is why I don't know anyone over the age of 25 that likes him or JT or Bubba or Horschel

He is fine in pressers (except for the "we" nonsense) but his on course theatrics are like a 13 yr old brat

I guess I didn't know he was known as a whiner. I rarely watch tv.