3W vs Driver off the tee

 tsecor ·  
tsecortsecor Loading........ 4496WRX Points: 418Members Posts: 4,496
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I see a lot of members talk about using a 3 wood off the tee because the driver isn't working.......with todays technology and "forgiveness", you would think drivers are much easier to hit than years past. The huge 460cc heads are supposed to inspire confidence (I hate them personally), but its funny how a smaller head 3W with a shorter shaft provides that confidence to a lot of amateur players.....maybe club fitting should be geared towards shaft length along with the other fitting parameters. I know it is somewhat, but what are your thoughts? It seems a lot of people like the 3w off the tee because it flies straight for them....but the heads are tiny compared to todays drivers and I know the shafts are shorter.....maybe that's the key to good fitting. Sure you lose some yardage, but if it flies down the middle and you are confident with the club, hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop.



What are your thoughts?
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  • suprfli6suprfli6  468WRX Points: 54Handicap: 8-10Members Posts: 468
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    My 4W isn't really any more dependable than my driver. When I'm playing a tight hole where I absolutely need to hit the fairway and I haven't been driving well, I use my 3 hybrid. I'm usually not playing very long courses though so that still usually leaves me a mid iron or less into the green, playing a 7000 yard course would be another story.
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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New Hampshire 24449WRX Points: 1,237Members Posts: 24,449
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    Yes, playing length does play a huge part in the ability to hit any club well. And yes, playing length is a critical part to a real quality fitting and it doesn't necessarily result in any loss of distance either. It's 1) just not something you will find at a retail level "fitting" and 2) the stock playing lengths have been 'jacked' more for drivers then most other clubs so it's much more common for the driver length to be a poor fit (giving poor results) then for the other clubs.
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  • Boricua GolfBoricua Golf  3396WRX Points: 118Handicap: 3.3Members Posts: 3,396
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    It really all depends on what the shot requires (course management), if I "must" hit the fairway, I will use the 3W, but I can hit my driver very well, if I am "feeling" it I'll hit driver every time I can...the 3W is for sure a fairway finder for me, but I love my driver, so it is all about the course management for me...
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  • Santiago GolfSantiago Golf I Strive to make you Better  5093WRX Points: 196Handicap: ???Members Posts: 5,093
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    People are playing driver lengths that are fit for distance not accuracy. And most people dont use enough loft.



    Makes sense that they use a 3 wood, that flies shorter, so theur miss is going to be slightly less serve



    Alot ams would benefit from using 12* drivers and 43.5 inches long
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  • FireProFirePro  865WRX Points: 59Handicap: 6Members Posts: 865
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    I think I hit my driver better then my 3 wood at the moment and would rather choke down on it and punch it out there rather then bring the 3 wood out. I also have a trusty 2 iron thats not all that far off of what a 3 wood gets me so if it comes down to it I just hit that.
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  • tsecortsecor Loading........  4496WRX Points: 418Members Posts: 4,496
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    People are playing driver lengths that are fit for distance not accuracy. And most people dont use enough loft.



    Makes sense that they use a 3 wood, that flies shorter, so theur miss is going to be slightly less serve



    Alot ams would benefit from using 12* drivers and 43.5 inches long
    i agree. A shorter shaft could easily have much more impact on a players game than shaft flex if you ask me. The 460cc heads are too big in my opinion and it seems amateur players actually hit the smaller heads better.
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  • dmeeksDCdmeeksDC  2623WRX Points: 312Handicap: 8ClubWRX Posts: 2,623
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    I go by yardage. If the hole is around 375 or less, wiill go with X2 Hot 3Deep, depending on course layout. Definitely easier to hit straight because it is 43 inch shaft. I don't think size of head has much to do with it.



    Drivers at 44 inches are much easier to hit straight compared to 45 or even 45.75 inch drivers, and there are a lot of those. The longer the driver, the more dispersion improvement I see with fairway woods.
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  • tsecortsecor Loading........  4496WRX Points: 418Members Posts: 4,496
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    dmeeksDC wrote:


    I go by yardage. If the hole is around 375 or less, wiill go with X2 Hot 3Deep, depending on course layout. Definitely easier to hit straight because it is 43 inch shaft. I don't think size of head has much to do with it.



    Drivers at 44 inches are much easier to hit straight compared to 45 or even 45.75 inch drivers, and there are a lot of those. The longer the driver, the more dispersion improvement I see with fairway woods.
    I agree and disagree. A huge head gives me less confidence. A more compact package inspires better contact for me
    Posted:
  • Shayan1121Shayan1121  573WRX Points: 35Handicap: 4.8Members Posts: 573
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    The reason is usually as simple as the driver goes further. Hypothetically, if a shot with a 3/4 wood is the same degree offline as the driver, the driver going 20-30 yards past it will put that shot further into trouble/ or more likely to get to the trouble. Add this to the fact that fairways have more loft and shorter shafts which make controlling them marginally easier.



    With that said, I find the only reason I hit the fairway off the tee is for positioning, not necessarily accuracy. Being closer to the hole will make the next shot easier, and make my score go down. I would rather work through a bad spell with my driver than settle for hitting the incorrect shot.
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  • Santiago GolfSantiago Golf I Strive to make you Better  5093WRX Points: 196Handicap: ???Members Posts: 5,093
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    tsecor wrote:


    People are playing driver lengths that are fit for distance not accuracy. And most people dont use enough loft.



    Makes sense that they use a 3 wood, that flies shorter, so theur miss is going to be slightly less serve



    Alot ams would benefit from using 12* drivers and 43.5 inches long
    i agree. A shorter shaft could easily have much more impact on a players game than shaft flex if you ask me. The 460cc heads are too big in my opinion and it seems amateur players actually hit the smaller heads better.


    Well, i would argue its not that its harder to hit at 460 its that most golfers ate still not used to it. When the majority of current golfers started playing in 70s-80s using tiny wooden heads, they used those size head all the way til around 2001-2004? Thats 20-30 years of using something completely different than what is the norm now a days
    Posted:
    Driver: Taylormade M2 '17 10.5*; Accura Tour Z Pink, 85 M5 (285, can get one or two to carry 300+ if needed)
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    LOOKING FOR A 7 Wood (probably gunna be 230-235 club)
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    4-5; 38", 61* lie, 5 iron weight (220, 210) 6-8; 37", 62* lie, 8 iron weight (195, 180, 165) 9-AW; 36", 63* lie (150, 130, 110)
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  • BDoubleGBDoubleG Hamilton, Ontario 1342WRX Points: 132Handicap: Somewhere just south of 10, trending in the wrong direction. Members Posts: 1,342
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    Most days, I wonder why I even have a 3 wood. When I need to bomb it, I hit my driver, when I need to hit a conservative shot, I go easy on my driver, and if I NEED it in the fairway, I hit my 20 degree driving iron. At this point, the 3 wood is there to look pretty and to encourage stupid decisions on par 5s.
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  • bigjohntripodbigjohntripod  202WRX Points: 15Handicap: 400Members Posts: 202
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    I never make the "driver isn't working so I'll use my 3W" relation. I look at them as two different clubs. One to go long and straight. The other, to bend corners, over trees short par 4 with trouble around the green. I elevate my 3W much MUCH higher than my driver. My carving tool or sledgehammer, I'll decide on the box.



    Side note - I don't have an issue if someone thinks the "driver isn't working so I'll use my 3W". It's what ever works for your game.
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  • dubbelbogeydubbelbogey  498WRX Points: 228Members Posts: 498
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    BDoubleG wrote:


    Most days, I wonder why I even have a 3 wood. When I need to bomb it, I hit my driver, when I need to hit a conservative shot, I go easy on my driver, and if I NEED it in the fairway, I hit my 20 degree driving iron. At this point, the 3 wood is there to look pretty and to encourage stupid decisions on par 5s.




    I'm totally with you. My conservatively shafted driver (43.75") with a 12degree, 460cc head is much more forgiving than any 3-wood I've ever used. While I'm generally decent at finding the center of the driver face, there's the occasional hit where it's clear I missed the sweet spot by more than normal. It still goes pretty decently off the driver. The same magnitude of clubface miss on a 3w would be disastrous.



    After driver, my next longest club is a "2i" hybrid. Haven't carried, or missed, a 3w in many years.
    Posted:
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3525WRX Points: 325Handicap: 4Members Posts: 3,525
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    I usually get killed for pointing out these little details (because for some reason golfers are convinced based on nothing that being in the fairway matters) but it is much, much better to be 260 in the rough than 240 in the fairway. Twenty extra yards off the tee (about 10% in this scenario) is worth almost three tenths of a stroke per hole.



    So to answer your question: no. It depends on the player of course, but distance and speed are king in this game. Period.
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  • RecidivistGOLFERRecidivistGOLFER  340WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 340
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    tsecor wrote:


    I see a lot of members talk about using a 3 wood off the tee because the driver isn't working.......with todays technology and "forgiveness", you would think drivers are much easier to hit than years past. The huge 460cc heads are supposed to inspire confidence (I hate them personally), but its funny how a smaller head 3W with a shorter shaft provides that confidence to a lot of amateur players.....maybe club fitting should be geared towards shaft length along with the other fitting parameters. I know it is somewhat, but what are your thoughts? It seems a lot of people like the 3w off the tee because it flies straight for them....but the heads are tiny compared to todays drivers and I know the shafts are shorter.....maybe that's the key to good fitting. Sure you lose some yardage, but if it flies down the middle and you are confident with the club, hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop.



    What are your thoughts?




    This was true back in the day when there was less difference in head size between a 3 and a 1. Then, the shorter shaft and higher loft meant I ALWAYS tee'd off with the 3. I could hit it 225 and straight "most of the time" whereas driver was more like one-in-ten. But now there's just too much difference, too much forgiveness in the driver head. Only reason I'd tee off with my 3 (well... 4 now) is if I've got a really narrow fairway or I need to lay up. I was having struggles with my driver last summer and tried a Cally Mini 1.5. It didn't do much for me. My time and money was better spent working on the driver, and it paid off.
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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16  8723WRX Points: 1,106Members Posts: 8,723
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    The head size doesn't make it any easier to hit.... the shaft length does though. I find it easier to hit my smaller 170cc 3w off the tee for accuracy than my 460cc driver because my driver is 45'' and my 3w is 43.25''. I hit the 3w so much better in fact, I'm tempted to actually cut down to about 44 or even 43.75 just to see if my accuracy dramatically improves.



    I've also purchased a 43'' 13* 3w to see if I can sneak out a few extra yards because on perfect contact, the driver does still go about 25-30 further, which is a pretty big deal when it comes to approach shot accuracy.
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  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South Texas 2119WRX Points: 972Handicap: +0.6ClubWRX Posts: 2,119
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    I usually get killed for pointing out these little details (because for some reason golfers are convinced based on nothing that being in the fairway matters) but it is much, much better to be 260 in the rough than 240 in the fairway. Twenty extra yards off the tee (about 10% in this scenario) is worth almost three tenths of a stroke per hole.



    So to answer your question: no. It depends on the player of course, but distance and speed are king in this game. Period.




    Depends on the rough. It gets juicy and thick here in the summer. At least 3" - 4". Unless you are really strong, even controlling a wedge out of the mess is more difficult than a 7 or 8 from the fairway.
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  • rblmp32rblmp32  4263WRX Points: 74Lefty Boomers Posts: 4,263
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    I played with a 3w only back in '05. Worked really well as I could rip the snot out of a 15* 3w then. Now I pick a club based strictly on the yardage, shape of the hole, and location of trouble.
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  • PigemsPigems  10888WRX Points: 202Handicap: 8.8Members Posts: 10,888
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    I just put a Bertha Mini 1.5 head on a 3w shaft(42.5") for the bigger head as I found the RFX head looks a little small at that length. So I've now got a bigger head 3w option for off the tee.
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  • tsecortsecor Loading........  4496WRX Points: 418Members Posts: 4,496
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    I usually get killed for pointing out these little details (because for some reason golfers are convinced based on nothing that being in the fairway matters) but it is much, much better to be 260 in the rough than 240 in the fairway. Twenty extra yards off the tee (about 10% in this scenario) is worth almost three tenths of a stroke per hole.



    So to answer your question: no. It depends on the player of course, but distance and speed are king in this game. Period.
    not sure I agree playing from the rough is the better option....but to get back on point, given the large # of players who use a 3 wood off the tee for control, do you guys think fitting should change and this type of amateur play be incorporated into the fittings? I never see a fitter take out shafts that are 2" shorter than the last shaft that was tested....
    Posted:
  • DaRizDaRiz SoCal 1551WRX Points: 139Handicap: 5.9Members Posts: 1,551
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    My thoughts are that if you can routinely square up a 43" 3 wood, but not a 45" driver, then that driver is too long for you



    I'm 6'1 and chopped mine down to 44" and my accuracy has skyrocketed. Ricky is at 43.5" in his driver now (but he's a little guy)



    The OEMs are never going to push this as stock because it doesn't allow them to make the same distance claims, but I have noticed a lot more talk about this on golf broadcasts as well as this forum
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3525WRX Points: 325Handicap: 4Members Posts: 3,525
    Joined:  edited Jun 27, 2017 #23



    I usually get killed for pointing out these little details (because for some reason golfers are convinced based on nothing that being in the fairway matters) but it is much, much better to be 260 in the rough than 240 in the fairway. Twenty extra yards off the tee (about 10% in this scenario) is worth almost three tenths of a stroke per hole.



    So to answer your question: no. It depends on the player of course, but distance and speed are king in this game. Period.




    Depends on the rough. It gets juicy and thick here in the summer. At least 3" - 4". Unless you are really strong, even controlling a wedge out of the mess is more difficult than a 7 or 8 from the fairway.




    There are obviously exceptions to this. But given a general golf course, it is almost three times better to be in the rough twenty yards forward (assuming its around 15% - a 240/50 yard drive). Now, you will very likely hit prettier shots from the fairway and have more disasters from the rough but on average, in terms of approach proximity, almost nothing is more important than how far from the hole your ball starts before your iron hits it.


    DaRiz wrote:


    My thoughts are that if you can routinely square up a 43" 3 wood, but not a 45" driver, then that driver is too long for you



    I'm 6'1 and chopped mine down to 44" and my accuracy has skyrocketed. Ricky is at 43.5" in his driver now (but he's a little guy)



    The OEMs are never going to push this as stock because it doesn't allow them to make the same distance claims, but I have noticed a lot more talk about this on golf broadcasts as well as this forum




    You are falling into the same trap virtually everyone falls into. Driver "accuracy" doesn't matter. Approach shot accuracy does. You can get your driver as accurate as you want but if your approach shot accuracy doesn't go up (or goes down) it doesn't matter. The shot that actually matters for accuracy is the shot that is made into the green complex, not the shot that is made off the tee. There is obviously a point of diminishing returns here - you don't want to hook/slice off the golf course. But with the driver you want to be as long as you possibly can. You don't get extra points for hitting gorgeous drives straight up the middle 230 and hitting 6 iron when you could hit one a little left to 250 and hit 8 iron.



    Its a subtle difference, but its an important one. You have to be careful you arn't solving a problem that doesn't exist. Getting your driver "more accurate" and then not measuring the effect of that increased accuracy on your iron accuracy accomplishes nothing. If your driver accuracy helps your iron accuracy, that is wonderful, but usually (*usually*) a player, especially a mid-cap, will shoot a much lower score with a longer, wilder driver and shorter irons in their hands for approach shots, even if they are out of worse lies or around obstacles.



    You don't get to take off a half-stroke off for a straight drive. You could dramatically increase your accuracy by hitting pitching wedge off the tee. That is obviously a silly example, but it makes about as much sense as stepping back distance for accuracy. Its the same thing as switching to pitching wedge just on a smaller scale.



    Think about it. If you are shorter, you are more accurate. You're just hitting it shorter on the same line. Going from 260 in the rough to 240 in the fairway usually just means the mid-capper hit it less hard and, if you picked it up and moved it forward 20 yards on the same line, it isn't in the fairway anymore. This is fake accuracy. You can always get more accurate by slowing down because the ball travels less far on the same line. Your not getting more accurate, your just getting shorter (your clubface is still X* open/shut at impact).



    Cutting a few inches off your driver is a great idea IF it makes you longer (i.e. Jimmy Walker). Otherwise, just wallop it.



    If you tell me you are more accurate with the driver the question back is "So what? How much more accurate did that make your irons?" If you can't answer that question, the "more accurate" driver didn't do much except hit it shorter.
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  • chippa13chippa13  2510WRX Points: 268Members Posts: 2,510
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    PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.
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  • tsecortsecor Loading........  4496WRX Points: 418Members Posts: 4,496
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    I usually get killed for pointing out these little details (because for some reason golfers are convinced based on nothing that being in the fairway matters) but it is much, much better to be 260 in the rough than 240 in the fairway. Twenty extra yards off the tee (about 10% in this scenario) is worth almost three tenths of a stroke per hole.



    So to answer your question: no. It depends on the player of course, but distance and speed are king in this game. Period.




    Depends on the rough. It gets juicy and thick here in the summer. At least 3" - 4". Unless you are really strong, even controlling a wedge out of the mess is more difficult than a 7 or 8 from the fairway.




    There are obviously exceptions to this. But given a general golf course, it is almost three times better to be in the rough twenty yards forward (assuming its around 15% - a 240/50 yard drive). Now, you will very likely hit prettier shots from the fairway and have more disasters from the rough but on average, in terms of approach proximity, almost nothing is more important than how far from the hole your ball starts before your iron hits it.


    DaRiz wrote:


    My thoughts are that if you can routinely square up a 43" 3 wood, but not a 45" driver, then that driver is too long for you



    I'm 6'1 and chopped mine down to 44" and my accuracy has skyrocketed. Ricky is at 43.5" in his driver now (but he's a little guy)



    The OEMs are never going to push this as stock because it doesn't allow them to make the same distance claims, but I have noticed a lot more talk about this on golf broadcasts as well as this forum




    You are falling into the same trap virtually everyone falls into. Driver "accuracy" doesn't matter. Approach shot accuracy does. You can get your driver as accurate as you want but if your approach shot accuracy doesn't go up (or goes down) it doesn't matter. The shot that actually matters for accuracy is the shot that is made into the green complex, not the shot that is made off the tee. There is obviously a point of diminishing returns here - you don't want to hook/slice off the golf course. But with the driver you want to be as long as you possibly can. You don't get extra points for hitting gorgeous drives straight up the middle 230 and hitting 6 iron when you could hit one a little left to 250 and hit 8 iron.



    Its a subtle difference, but its an important one. You have to be careful you arn't solving a problem that doesn't exist. Getting your driver "more accurate" and then not measuring the effect of that increased accuracy on your iron accuracy accomplishes nothing. If your driver accuracy helps your iron accuracy, that is wonderful, but usually (*usually*) a player, especially a mid-cap, will shoot a much lower score with a longer, wilder driver and shorter irons in their hands for approach shots, even if they are out of worse lies or around obstacles.



    You don't get to take off a half-stroke off for a straight drive. You could dramatically increase your accuracy by hitting pitching wedge off the tee. That is obviously a silly example, but it makes about as much sense as stepping back distance for accuracy. Its the same thing as switching to pitching wedge just on a smaller scale.



    Think about it. If you are shorter, you are more accurate. You're just hitting it shorter on the same line. Going from 260 in the rough to 240 in the fairway usually just means the mid-capper hit it less hard and, if you picked it up and moved it forward 20 yards on the same line, it isn't in the fairway anymore. This is fake accuracy. You can always get more accurate by slowing down because the ball travels less far on the same line. Your not getting more accurate, your just getting shorter (your clubface is still X* open/shut at impact).



    Cutting a few inches off your driver is a great idea IF it makes you longer (i.e. Jimmy Walker). Otherwise, just wallop it.



    If you tell me you are more accurate with the driver the question back is "So what? How much more accurate did that make your irons?" If you can't answer that question, the "more accurate" driver didn't do much except hit it shorter.
    how is playing from the rough better? you have already eliminated 1/2 the options on your 2nd shot when you have to play from one side of the course...makes no sense. Driver accuracy doesn't matter? huh????
    Posted:
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New Hampshire 24449WRX Points: 1,237Members Posts: 24,449
    Joined:  edited Jun 27, 2017 #26
    chippa13 wrote:


    PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.




    And that's assuming you can even find the wayward driver shot in the trees and have a shot with it. I hit two 3 hybrids of one of our narrow holes this weekend, both landed on the edge of the tree line (not deep into them) I only found the provisional and still had to take an unplayable. If I had hit driver, it would have taken a lot more balls to get one I could actually play.
    Posted:
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3525WRX Points: 325Handicap: 4Members Posts: 3,525
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    tsecor wrote:





    I usually get killed for pointing out these little details (because for some reason golfers are convinced based on nothing that being in the fairway matters) but it is much, much better to be 260 in the rough than 240 in the fairway. Twenty extra yards off the tee (about 10% in this scenario) is worth almost three tenths of a stroke per hole.



    So to answer your question: no. It depends on the player of course, but distance and speed are king in this game. Period.




    Depends on the rough. It gets juicy and thick here in the summer. At least 3" - 4". Unless you are really strong, even controlling a wedge out of the mess is more difficult than a 7 or 8 from the fairway.




    There are obviously exceptions to this. But given a general golf course, it is almost three times better to be in the rough twenty yards forward (assuming its around 15% - a 240/50 yard drive). Now, you will very likely hit prettier shots from the fairway and have more disasters from the rough but on average, in terms of approach proximity, almost nothing is more important than how far from the hole your ball starts before your iron hits it.


    DaRiz wrote:


    My thoughts are that if you can routinely square up a 43" 3 wood, but not a 45" driver, then that driver is too long for you



    I'm 6'1 and chopped mine down to 44" and my accuracy has skyrocketed. Ricky is at 43.5" in his driver now (but he's a little guy)



    The OEMs are never going to push this as stock because it doesn't allow them to make the same distance claims, but I have noticed a lot more talk about this on golf broadcasts as well as this forum




    You are falling into the same trap virtually everyone falls into. Driver "accuracy" doesn't matter. Approach shot accuracy does. You can get your driver as accurate as you want but if your approach shot accuracy doesn't go up (or goes down) it doesn't matter. The shot that actually matters for accuracy is the shot that is made into the green complex, not the shot that is made off the tee. There is obviously a point of diminishing returns here - you don't want to hook/slice off the golf course. But with the driver you want to be as long as you possibly can. You don't get extra points for hitting gorgeous drives straight up the middle 230 and hitting 6 iron when you could hit one a little left to 250 and hit 8 iron.



    Its a subtle difference, but its an important one. You have to be careful you arn't solving a problem that doesn't exist. Getting your driver "more accurate" and then not measuring the effect of that increased accuracy on your iron accuracy accomplishes nothing. If your driver accuracy helps your iron accuracy, that is wonderful, but usually (*usually*) a player, especially a mid-cap, will shoot a much lower score with a longer, wilder driver and shorter irons in their hands for approach shots, even if they are out of worse lies or around obstacles.



    You don't get to take off a half-stroke off for a straight drive. You could dramatically increase your accuracy by hitting pitching wedge off the tee. That is obviously a silly example, but it makes about as much sense as stepping back distance for accuracy. Its the same thing as switching to pitching wedge just on a smaller scale.



    Think about it. If you are shorter, you are more accurate. You're just hitting it shorter on the same line. Going from 260 in the rough to 240 in the fairway usually just means the mid-capper hit it less hard and, if you picked it up and moved it forward 20 yards on the same line, it isn't in the fairway anymore. This is fake accuracy. You can always get more accurate by slowing down because the ball travels less far on the same line. Your not getting more accurate, your just getting shorter (your clubface is still X* open/shut at impact).



    Cutting a few inches off your driver is a great idea IF it makes you longer (i.e. Jimmy Walker). Otherwise, just wallop it.



    If you tell me you are more accurate with the driver the question back is "So what? How much more accurate did that make your irons?" If you can't answer that question, the "more accurate" driver didn't do much except hit it shorter.
    how is playing from the rough better? you have already eliminated 1/2 the options on your 2nd shot when you have to play from one side of the course...makes no sense. Driver accuracy doesn't matter? huh????




    That isn't even close to what I said. I didn't say driver accuracy didn't matter. I said driver accuracy only matters if it makes your iron accuracy better.
    Posted:
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3525WRX Points: 325Handicap: 4Members Posts: 3,525
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    Stuart G. wrote:

    chippa13 wrote:


    PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.




    And that's assuming you can even find the wayward driver shot in the trees and have a shot with it. I hit two 3 hybrids of one of our narrow holes this weekend, both landed on the edge of the tree line (not deep into them) I only found the provisional and still had to take an unplayable. If I had hit driver, it would have taken a lot more balls to get one I could actually play.

    chippa13 wrote:


    PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.




    Nobody is advocating blasting the ball where you can't find it. We were discussing fairway at 240 vs. rough at 260. Somehow now we're behind trees and not finding our ball. Obviously I'm not advocating that you hit the ball into a penalty area or an area where you have to chip backwards.



    A whole lot of people work on driver accuracy in a vacuum. I'm saying its player-dependent. If I can work the ball, my "accuracy" is completely different than a 20 cap. The key to driver accuracy is to measure it *in terms of the accuracy of the resulting iron shot*. Driver accuracy, taken on its own, doesn't matter very much*.



    Measured over several rounds, it is very possible - probably even likely - that a driver that is a little less accurate but longer will result in iron shots that have a tighter proximity to the hole.



    *This does not mean it doesn't matter if you blast it into a lake, or a house, or the woods. But giving up accuracy for distance makes sense in a whole whole lot of cases.
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  • oregongolfguyoregongolfguy  304WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 304
    Joined:  #29
    I agree with the premise that most people would benefit from at least 1" shorter driver shaft length. I play at 45". And i fit it pretty well, but i am sure i would hit something .5-1" shorter better overall. Might take a slight bit off of the the top end of distance but would improve accuracy. I think a little shorter fairway wood would be nice also.

    I also think that alot of people exaggerate the difference in accuracy between driver and fairway wood. My belief is that for most people fairway wood is probably more accurate. but not overly so.



    The other part of the arguement is course dependent. I want To be as close to the hole as i can get while still having a good approach shot. some courses that means needing to be in the fairway, some courses the rough is not a significant enough penalty to worry about. I have a course two weeks ago where it was fairways or death. Rough was deep and thick. Almost impossible to hack out of. I hit hybrid off the tee alot that day trying to keep the ball playable. I have never hit so many mid and long irons in my life lol.....2 days ago i played a course where the rough was basically non existent. I hit driver 12 times off the tee there. All depends on the course.
    Posted:
  • tsecortsecor Loading........  4496WRX Points: 418Members Posts: 4,496
    Joined:  #30

    Stuart G. wrote:

    chippa13 wrote:


    PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.




    And that's assuming you can even find the wayward driver shot in the trees and have a shot with it. I hit two 3 hybrids of one of our narrow holes this weekend, both landed on the edge of the tree line (not deep into them) I only found the provisional and still had to take an unplayable. If I had hit driver, it would have taken a lot more balls to get one I could actually play.

    chippa13 wrote:


    PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.




    Nobody is advocating blasting the ball where you can't find it. We were discussing fairway at 240 vs. rough at 260. Somehow now we're behind trees and not finding our ball. Obviously I'm not advocating that you hit the ball into a penalty area or an area where you have to chip backwards.



    A whole lot of people work on driver accuracy in a vacuum. I'm saying its player-dependent. If I can work the ball, my "accuracy" is completely different than a 20 cap. The key to driver accuracy is to measure it *in terms of the accuracy of the resulting iron shot*. Driver accuracy, taken on its own, doesn't matter very much*.



    Measured over several rounds, it is very possible - probably even likely - that a driver that is a little less accurate but longer will result in iron shots that have a tighter proximity to the hole.



    *This does not mean it doesn't matter if you blast it into a lake, or a house, or the woods. But giving up accuracy for distance makes sense in a whole whole lot of cases.
    id love to play against someone from the middle of the fairway all day long as they hit out of the rough 15 yards closer to the green. 2 players of = skill, ill take the guy who is in the fairway all day vs the other guy.
    Posted:
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf  3525WRX Points: 325Handicap: 4Members Posts: 3,525
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    tsecor wrote:


    Stuart G. wrote:

    chippa13 wrote:


    PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.




    And that's assuming you can even find the wayward driver shot in the trees and have a shot with it. I hit two 3 hybrids of one of our narrow holes this weekend, both landed on the edge of the tree line (not deep into them) I only found the provisional and still had to take an unplayable. If I had hit driver, it would have taken a lot more balls to get one I could actually play.

    chippa13 wrote:


    PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.




    Nobody is advocating blasting the ball where you can't find it. We were discussing fairway at 240 vs. rough at 260. Somehow now we're behind trees and not finding our ball. Obviously I'm not advocating that you hit the ball into a penalty area or an area where you have to chip backwards.



    A whole lot of people work on driver accuracy in a vacuum. I'm saying its player-dependent. If I can work the ball, my "accuracy" is completely different than a 20 cap. The key to driver accuracy is to measure it *in terms of the accuracy of the resulting iron shot*. Driver accuracy, taken on its own, doesn't matter very much*.



    Measured over several rounds, it is very possible - probably even likely - that a driver that is a little less accurate but longer will result in iron shots that have a tighter proximity to the hole.



    *This does not mean it doesn't matter if you blast it into a lake, or a house, or the woods. But giving up accuracy for distance makes sense in a whole whole lot of cases.
    id love to play against someone from the middle of the fairway all day long as they hit out of the rough 15 yards closer to the green. 2 players of = skill, ill take the guy who is in the fairway all day vs the other guy.




    https://www.amazon.com/Every-Shot-Counts-Revolutionary-Performance/dp/1592407501



    You'd lose almost every time. The study has been done. Being able to hit an iron that is shorter with more loft more than makes up for the lie.



    And it was 20 yards we were discussing, not 15. Two clubs. 8 iron vs. PW. 6 vs. 8.



    We don't have to argue about it. Its a very good book if you haven't read it. The number one factor in how close you hit your irons is how close to the hole you start because it is so much easier to hit a shorter club with higher loft.
    Posted:
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