3W vs Driver off the tee

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  • Ri_RedneckRi_Redneck Leather for Life!! Members Posts: 5,448 ✭✭

    Bye wrote:


    Unfounded confidence is just as dangerous none in this game.




    All confidence is unfounded.



    [url="http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2010/01/07/how-baseball-and-softball-outf/"]http://scienceblogs....-softball-outf/[/url]



    Theoretically, it should be impossible for a baseball player to catch a fly ball with regularity. Yet they do it, constantly. Our brains shouldn't, with our processing power, be able to calculate its landing spot. But if you think you can, and you don't try to do it consciously, you can catch them over and over and over.



    For decades nobody could break a four minute mile. None of the top runners in the world even considered it possible. Then Robert (Roger?) Bannister actually did it and, once he did, others started destroying his record - his record, which broke a mark people thought unbreakable for decades, was broken three weeks later. Once people knew you could do it, they did it. They didn't get faster, they got irrational confidence from the fact that Bannister did it.



    I'm full of irrational confidence. Does it hurt me sometimes? Sure. But I think it helps a whole lot more.



    Realize some don't agree, which is fine. We agree to disagree.


    Sir Roger Bannister. He recently passed away.


    Saw a eulogy for him while watching a recent track competition ( on TV) in the UK. He was a fine gentleman who did much for T&F. He will be missed.



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  • ByeBye Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭
    I can see what you are saying PSG. How many time do you hear the guy that goes on about how many greens they hit and how bad their putting is. When in truth they hit it to 40 feet a lot.



    I probably go the other way with my tee shots, counting how many fairways hit per round. It is usually fairly low but, that is not the whole picture. I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 9,911 ✭✭
    Bye wrote:
    I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.




    I use Broadie's app called "Golfmetrics" and I can only do it periodically for maybe 10-15 rounds every few months. Otherwise I do indeed "obsess about it" to the detriment of my enjoyment and possibly my scores. So I just "check in" for six weeks once in a while to see if my stats have changed, which they usually have not.
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,436 ✭✭

    Bye wrote:
    I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.




    I use Broadie's app called "Golfmetrics" and I can only do it periodically for maybe 10-15 rounds every few months. Otherwise I do indeed "obsess about it" to the detriment of my enjoyment and possibly my scores. So I just "check in" for six weeks once in a while to see if my stats have changed, which they usually have not.




    I actually dont really *gasp* track numerical stats. I bought a little book, its leather, I'm not sure of the name but i've seen them at cash registers at alot of golf stores. It has a flap on the left for a yardage book and on the right it has a scorecard that is set up well for taking lots of notes. Its the perfect size to stick up just slightly in the back left pocket (glove in back right). It also has a small little folder behind the yadage book for notes about the course you're playing. Its a neat package. I generally write down whatever I'm thinking while I'm playing and any other information i think should go in there.



    1. its harder to do something stupid if you have to write it down first.

    2. its easy to see really stupid mistakes if you read back through outside of the heat of the round (being too aggressive, not aggressive enough, etc..).

    3. i only really do it in rounds i care about i.e. ones where i keep score. most rounds i'm just having fun, but when i put on the game face i write it all down.

    3. i'm not very different in terms of accuracy with driver and 3 wood, my notes have shown this to be true over time. i don't have it down to numbers, but i do know when i go to 3 wood to find the fairway or driver doesn't matter much *for me*.

    4. i get way too much into the "let's just protect this score with pars" mode way too fast in events - that's the devil of golf, i know i do it, and i still can't stop! lol



    anyway, that's what i do. i don't quantify it. I just write it down and look at it later when i'm not in the round and try to find patterns over several rounds.
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  • ByeBye Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭

    Bye wrote:
    I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.




    I use Broadie's app called "Golfmetrics" and I can only do it periodically for maybe 10-15 rounds every few months. Otherwise I do indeed "obsess about it" to the detriment of my enjoyment and possibly my scores. So I just "check in" for six weeks once in a while to see if my stats have changed, which they usually have not.




    Thanks, I will look in to it. I was given a book to fill in about 15 years ago which covered a lot of this stuff. Too much of anything is bad for you. My brain couldn't cope!
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  • ByeBye Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭


    Bye wrote:
    I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.




    I use Broadie's app called "Golfmetrics" and I can only do it periodically for maybe 10-15 rounds every few months. Otherwise I do indeed "obsess about it" to the detriment of my enjoyment and possibly my scores. So I just "check in" for six weeks once in a while to see if my stats have changed, which they usually have not.




    I actually dont really *gasp* track numerical stats. I bought a little book, its leather, I'm not sure of the name but i've seen them at cash registers at alot of golf stores. It has a flap on the left for a yardage book and on the right it has a scorecard that is set up well for taking lots of notes. Its the perfect size to stick up just slightly in the back left pocket (glove in back right). It also has a small little folder behind the yadage book for notes about the course you're playing. Its a neat package. I generally write down whatever I'm thinking while I'm playing and any other information i think should go in there.



    1. its harder to do something stupid if you have to write it down first.

    2. its easy to see really stupid mistakes if you read back through outside of the heat of the round (being too aggressive, not aggressive enough, etc..).

    3. i only really do it in rounds i care about i.e. ones where i keep score. most rounds i'm just having fun, but when i put on the game face i write it all down.

    3. i'm not very different in terms of accuracy with driver and 3 wood, my notes have shown this to be true over time. i don't have it down to numbers, but i do know when i go to 3 wood to find the fairway or driver doesn't matter much *for me*.

    4. i get way too much into the "let's just protect this score with pars" mode way too fast in events - that's the devil of golf, i know i do it, and i still can't stop! lol



    anyway, that's what i do. i don't quantify it. I just write it down and look at it later when i'm not in the round and try to find patterns over several rounds.




    I did gasp! Lots of interesting points there. It is easy for a memory to be lost of skewed in the heat of the moment. Writing stuff down sounds like it something that is worth trying.



    Par protection mode is the default style of most players when they have good score going. Or even at the start of an important round. It is hard to break because those horrible thoughts just come from nowhere.



    I know that playing too conservatively (especially from the tee) over the years has cost me a lot. I grew up playing on a course where a bad shot would be a lost ball and a big number. Learning how, when and where to miss a shot IMO is huge in this game. Probably like others this shots gained stuff intrigues me, but I am not 100% convinced that it will help my game.
    Taylormade 2017 M1 10.5 - Aldila Rogue Silver 70X - 44.5 inches
    Callaway Rogue 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver 70X
    Titleist 816 H2 20 degrees - Aldila Rogue Black 85X
    Titleist 716CB 4-9 - X100
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,436 ✭✭
    edited Mar 21, 2018 #1418
    Bye wrote:



    Bye wrote:
    I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.




    I use Broadie's app called "Golfmetrics" and I can only do it periodically for maybe 10-15 rounds every few months. Otherwise I do indeed "obsess about it" to the detriment of my enjoyment and possibly my scores. So I just "check in" for six weeks once in a while to see if my stats have changed, which they usually have not.




    I actually dont really *gasp* track numerical stats. I bought a little book, its leather, I'm not sure of the name but i've seen them at cash registers at alot of golf stores. It has a flap on the left for a yardage book and on the right it has a scorecard that is set up well for taking lots of notes. Its the perfect size to stick up just slightly in the back left pocket (glove in back right). It also has a small little folder behind the yadage book for notes about the course you're playing. Its a neat package. I generally write down whatever I'm thinking while I'm playing and any other information i think should go in there.



    1. its harder to do something stupid if you have to write it down first.

    2. its easy to see really stupid mistakes if you read back through outside of the heat of the round (being too aggressive, not aggressive enough, etc..).

    3. i only really do it in rounds i care about i.e. ones where i keep score. most rounds i'm just having fun, but when i put on the game face i write it all down.

    3. i'm not very different in terms of accuracy with driver and 3 wood, my notes have shown this to be true over time. i don't have it down to numbers, but i do know when i go to 3 wood to find the fairway or driver doesn't matter much *for me*.

    4. i get way too much into the "let's just protect this score with pars" mode way too fast in events - that's the devil of golf, i know i do it, and i still can't stop! lol



    anyway, that's what i do. i don't quantify it. I just write it down and look at it later when i'm not in the round and try to find patterns over several rounds.




    I did gasp! Lots of interesting points there. It is easy for a memory to be lost of skewed in the heat of the moment. Writing stuff down sounds like it something that is worth trying.



    Par protection mode is the default style of most players when they have good score going. Or even at the start of an important round. It is hard to break because those horrible thoughts just come from nowhere.



    I know that playing too conservatively (especially from the tee) over the years has cost me a lot. I grew up playing on a course where a bad shot would be a lost ball and a big number. Learning how, when and where to miss a shot IMO is huge in this game. Probably like others this shots gained stuff intrigues me, but I am not 100% convinced that it will help my game.




    It also helps on courses you play events on a lot.



    For example on the notes page for #2 at TPC Louisiana I have in huge sharpie across the entire hole in the yardage book "DO NOT AIM LEFT. AIM RIGHT. AIM WAY RIGHT. AIM RIGHT."



    The hole has a bunker up the left side that if you carry you can cut off and get up in two, but the entire right side is wide open - to the point that its basically impossible to miss, even though you have to lay up, its the right play for me. I've tried to go left there so many times and come up short and made 7 my notes have taught me its a horrible idea to play aggressively there.



    We know mechanical errors - i.e. huge hooks and blocks - and we set out to fix them. This is the only way I could come up with to "fix" bad decisions. Write them down and review them later.
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  • ByeBye Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭

    Bye wrote:



    Bye wrote:
    I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.




    I use Broadie's app called "Golfmetrics" and I can only do it periodically for maybe 10-15 rounds every few months. Otherwise I do indeed "obsess about it" to the detriment of my enjoyment and possibly my scores. So I just "check in" for six weeks once in a while to see if my stats have changed, which they usually have not.




    I actually dont really *gasp* track numerical stats. I bought a little book, its leather, I'm not sure of the name but i've seen them at cash registers at alot of golf stores. It has a flap on the left for a yardage book and on the right it has a scorecard that is set up well for taking lots of notes. Its the perfect size to stick up just slightly in the back left pocket (glove in back right). It also has a small little folder behind the yadage book for notes about the course you're playing. Its a neat package. I generally write down whatever I'm thinking while I'm playing and any other information i think should go in there.



    1. its harder to do something stupid if you have to write it down first.

    2. its easy to see really stupid mistakes if you read back through outside of the heat of the round (being too aggressive, not aggressive enough, etc..).

    3. i only really do it in rounds i care about i.e. ones where i keep score. most rounds i'm just having fun, but when i put on the game face i write it all down.

    3. i'm not very different in terms of accuracy with driver and 3 wood, my notes have shown this to be true over time. i don't have it down to numbers, but i do know when i go to 3 wood to find the fairway or driver doesn't matter much *for me*.

    4. i get way too much into the "let's just protect this score with pars" mode way too fast in events - that's the devil of golf, i know i do it, and i still can't stop! lol



    anyway, that's what i do. i don't quantify it. I just write it down and look at it later when i'm not in the round and try to find patterns over several rounds.




    I did gasp! Lots of interesting points there. It is easy for a memory to be lost of skewed in the heat of the moment. Writing stuff down sounds like it something that is worth trying.



    Par protection mode is the default style of most players when they have good score going. Or even at the start of an important round. It is hard to break because those horrible thoughts just come from nowhere.



    I know that playing too conservatively (especially from the tee) over the years has cost me a lot. I grew up playing on a course where a bad shot would be a lost ball and a big number. Learning how, when and where to miss a shot IMO is huge in this game. Probably like others this shots gained stuff intrigues me, but I am not 100% convinced that it will help my game.




    It also helps on courses you play events on a lot.



    For example on the notes page for #2 at TPC Louisiana I have in huge sharpie across the entire hole in the yardage book "DO NOT AIM LEFT. AIM RIGHT. AIM WAY RIGHT. AIM RIGHT."



    The hole has a bunker up the left side that if you carry you can cut off and get up in two, but the entire right side is wide open - to the point that its basically impossible to miss, even though you have to lay up, its the right play for me. I've tried to go left there so many times and come up short and made 7 my notes have taught me its a horrible idea to play aggressively there.



    We know mechanical errors - i.e. huge hooks and blocks - and we set out to fix them. This is the only way I could come up with to "fix" bad decisions. Write them down and review them later.




    You have probably heard this but anyway, one of the few physiological tricks that seems to work is that the mind doesn't understand the word don't. Don't hit it left, brain hears HIT IT LEFT.



    Yeah I agree, visual aids are really useful. There is so much to remember in this game forgetting what you are trying to do is so easy.



    Hitting it left when the whole world is to the right is one of the most annoying things.



    I always keep my score, even in a bounce game. I am going to try noting stuff down from this weekend onwards.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,890 ✭✭
    edited Mar 21, 2018 #1420

    Bye wrote:



    Bye wrote:
    I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.




    I use Broadie's app called "Golfmetrics" and I can only do it periodically for maybe 10-15 rounds every few months. Otherwise I do indeed "obsess about it" to the detriment of my enjoyment and possibly my scores. So I just "check in" for six weeks once in a while to see if my stats have changed, which they usually have not.




    I actually dont really *gasp* track numerical stats. I bought a little book, its leather, I'm not sure of the name but i've seen them at cash registers at alot of golf stores. It has a flap on the left for a yardage book and on the right it has a scorecard that is set up well for taking lots of notes. Its the perfect size to stick up just slightly in the back left pocket (glove in back right). It also has a small little folder behind the yadage book for notes about the course you're playing. Its a neat package. I generally write down whatever I'm thinking while I'm playing and any other information i think should go in there.



    1. its harder to do something stupid if you have to write it down first.

    2. its easy to see really stupid mistakes if you read back through outside of the heat of the round (being too aggressive, not aggressive enough, etc..).

    3. i only really do it in rounds i care about i.e. ones where i keep score. most rounds i'm just having fun, but when i put on the game face i write it all down.

    3. i'm not very different in terms of accuracy with driver and 3 wood, my notes have shown this to be true over time. i don't have it down to numbers, but i do know when i go to 3 wood to find the fairway or driver doesn't matter much *for me*.

    4. i get way too much into the "let's just protect this score with pars" mode way too fast in events - that's the devil of golf, i know i do it, and i still can't stop! lol



    anyway, that's what i do. i don't quantify it. I just write it down and look at it later when i'm not in the round and try to find patterns over several rounds.




    I did gasp! Lots of interesting points there. It is easy for a memory to be lost of skewed in the heat of the moment. Writing stuff down sounds like it something that is worth trying.



    Par protection mode is the default style of most players when they have good score going. Or even at the start of an important round. It is hard to break because those horrible thoughts just come from nowhere.



    I know that playing too conservatively (especially from the tee) over the years has cost me a lot. I grew up playing on a course where a bad shot would be a lost ball and a big number. Learning how, when and where to miss a shot IMO is huge in this game. Probably like others this shots gained stuff intrigues me, but I am not 100% convinced that it will help my game.




    It also helps on courses you play events on a lot.



    For example on the notes page for #2 at TPC Louisiana I have in huge sharpie across the entire hole in the yardage book "DO NOT AIM LEFT. AIM RIGHT. AIM WAY RIGHT. AIM RIGHT."



    The hole has a bunker up the left side that if you carry you can cut off and get up in two, but the entire right side is wide open - to the point that its basically impossible to miss, even though you have to lay up, its the right play for me. I've tried to go left there so many times and come up short and made 7 my notes have taught me its a horrible idea to play aggressively there.



    We know mechanical errors - i.e. huge hooks and blocks - and we set out to fix them. This is the only way I could come up with to "fix" bad decisions. Write them down and review them later.






    now this i like !!!



    i have a note like this on a par 5 from a Gary player course locally.... it is a tee ball over a small lake... fairway doglegs left ...and on left side ( inside) of dogleg is a small stand of shortish pine trees.... temptation is to blow it over the trees to get home in 2.... well if you shoot the trees they are 235 out from the back.... BUT he has hidden a finger from the 2nd lake that runs up the left by the green behind these trees... maybe a 10 yard patch over the trees to land on ...Unless you carry it 290 ish..( best i can estimate) ..over that finger and into the fairway.... totally blind of the 2nd lake from the tee. and you have to hit a fade or straight ball to hold the fairway and not run danger of left into the 2nd lake after clearing that "finger that juts out".... Ive tried it several times with favorable wind and crossed it once.... it leaves 140 into the hole.... if you hit a hooking 3 wood into the dogleg and layup from the tee you have 275 ish in with water left of green... so basically a forced 3 shot hole... which is typical Gary player.. he hates the long ball.. My note for that hole is " hit a long iron into the fairway dumbass..... NO MATTER WHAT THE WIND SAYS"
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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,436 ✭✭
    edited Mar 21, 2018 #1421
    Sometimes I'll play 9 holes and hit a club or two lower with half swings every hole and take notes. Stuff like that. Just trying to find shots that are easier than full swing shots that can be reproduced.



    This is what I use:



    https://www.amazon.c...0_&dpSrc=detail



    I ignore the columns and just write in the space with a small-tipped pen. it fits a yardage book on the left and i don't use rangefinders or anything like that. so between the yardage book having notes in it and the scratch paper on the right i tend to try to retain as much information as i can round-to-round.



    EDIT: they have fit in sample nonsense in that image, but the GoStats pad actually comes blank except for hole numbers.
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  • mahoniemahonie Members Posts: 2,437 ✭✭
    I’ve got most rounds from the last 10 years logged in the back of my Filofax (remember them?). Basic Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other. Over time I noticed that my fairways hit was pretty constant, but everything else was fairly inconsistent. I could hit 14 GIR but take 38 putts and shoot 85 or hit 8 GIR, take 28 putts and shoot 80. I could also hit 8 GIR and take 38 putts and shoot 94. Putting and chipping is easiest for me to practice so I focussed on that. I got my scrambling percentage up from 30% to nearer 50% and got my average number of putts down to 30 from 34. I can still shoot 94 but those rounds are a lot rarer now. I can also break 80 more regularly now and shoot low 70s when everything clicks (not that often). From my stats, I know my next area for improvement is 85-120 yards in and that’s where I’m currently focussing my attention. Thing I have noticed is that it takes ages for any improvement to show up in my stats...it’s very gradual increments.
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  • asw7576asw7576 Members Posts: 1,089
    For me, FW are evil image/scare2.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':scare2:' />
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  • bervinbervin Members Posts: 801
    mahonie wrote:


    I’ve got most rounds from the last 10 years logged in the back of my Filofax (remember them?). Basic Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other. Over time I noticed that my fairways hit was pretty constant, but everything else was fairly inconsistent. I could hit 14 GIR but take 38 putts and shoot 85 or hit 8 GIR, take 28 putts and shoot 80. I could also hit 8 GIR and take 38 putts and shoot 94. Putting and chipping is easiest for me to practice so I focussed on that. I got my scrambling percentage up from 30% to nearer 50% and got my average number of putts down to 30 from 34. I can still shoot 94 but those rounds are a lot rarer now. I can also break 80 more regularly now and shoot low 70s when everything clicks (not that often). From my stats, I know my next area for improvement is 85-120 yards in and that’s where I’m currently focussing my attention. Thing I have noticed is that it takes ages for any improvement to show up in my stats...it’s very gradual increments.




    Speculating here, but perhaps the reason it takes so long to see movement in your stats is because of the nature of the "stat" itself. GIR, for example, is incredibly vague and has a number of variables that impact it. Just marking Yes/No in a GIR column doesn't tell you what you actually need to know to determine where improvement needs to be made. Let's take your 85-120 yard comment as an example. How do you know you need improvement from that range? Is it just speculative, or what you think needs improving because maybe you don't have enough 10 footers for birdie? That would be a bit unrealistic. If you were to keep information about what yardages, lies, course conditions, etc. these GIRs are hit or missed from, and what distance from the hole your GIRs are, or where you missed when you don't get one, it would give you a much more granular look into the details. The devil is in the details and that is where you can identify strengths and weaknesses. I don't think most golfers need to go into this kind of detail to play a game they just want to enjoy, but if you are an analytical proponent, then just thought I'd chime in for your consideration. The reality is you might be tour average from 85-120 and just have unrealistic expectations when you actually need to improve on ballstriking from 150 +. Again, just a made up example, but food for thought.
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 9,911 ✭✭
    bervin wrote:

    mahonie wrote:


    I’ve got most rounds from the last 10 years logged in the back of my Filofax (remember them?). Basic Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other. Over time I noticed that my fairways hit was pretty constant, but everything else was fairly inconsistent. I could hit 14 GIR but take 38 putts and shoot 85 or hit 8 GIR, take 28 putts and shoot 80. I could also hit 8 GIR and take 38 putts and shoot 94. Putting and chipping is easiest for me to practice so I focussed on that. I got my scrambling percentage up from 30% to nearer 50% and got my average number of putts down to 30 from 34. I can still shoot 94 but those rounds are a lot rarer now. I can also break 80 more regularly now and shoot low 70s when everything clicks (not that often). From my stats, I know my next area for improvement is 85-120 yards in and that’s where I’m currently focussing my attention. Thing I have noticed is that it takes ages for any improvement to show up in my stats...it’s very gradual increments.




    Speculating here, but perhaps the reason it takes so long to see movement in your stats is because of the nature of the "stat" itself. GIR, for example, is incredibly vague and has a number of variables that impact it. Just marking Yes/No in a GIR column doesn't tell you what you actually need to know to determine where improvement needs to be made. Let's take your 85-120 yard comment as an example. How do you know you need improvement from that range? Is it just speculative, or what you think needs improving because maybe you don't have enough 10 footers for birdie? That would be a bit unrealistic. If you were to keep information about what yardages, lies, course conditions, etc. these GIRs are hit or missed from, and what distance from the hole your GIRs are, or where you missed when you don't get one, it would give you a much more granular look into the details. The devil is in the details and that is where you can identify strengths and weaknesses. I don't think most golfers need to go into this kind of detail to play a game they just want to enjoy, but if you are an analytical proponent, then just thought I'd chime in for your consideration. The reality is you might be tour average from 85-120 and just have unrealistic expectations when you actually need to improve on ballstriking from 150 +. Again, just a made up example, but food for thought.




    I'm not clear how mahonie arrived at the 85-120 yard conclusion from the stats from the stats he listed (Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other). Those are all either scoring or "counting" stats with nary a distance to be found except for "putting distance holed".



    To amplify on bervin's point, if you want to analyze your game instead of simply counting things up and watching them change (or not) over time then you start and end with distances. If you can't look back through the stats and see how shots from 85-120 yards turned out relative to shots from <85 or 120+ yards then you can't really reach a stats-based conclusion at all.



    The key determinant of the outcome of a shot is how long it is. A 1-foot putt is much easier than a 10-footer is much easier than a 100-footer and an 85-yard approach is easier than a 185-yard approach. Until you tabulate the distances from which you were approach the green, you can't really look inside a stat like GIR. Fifty percent of GIR from 85 yards is pretty terrible. Fifty percent of GIR from 185 is pretty awesome.



    If you have enough information to compute "putting distance holed" it sounds like you're recording the distance of your final putt on each hole. Any time you 2-putt or 3-putt it would be more useful to know the distance of your initial putt on that hole. It may also be that mahonie is recording distance information and just forgot to list it.
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  • Need2golfalotNeed2golfalot Members Posts: 674
    The skewed aspect of GIR and putts per round is when you play a course with small greens and several shots end up on the fringe.
  • JoeJoeJoeUrBoatJoeJoeJoeUrBoat Members Posts: 692 ✭✭


    The skewed aspect of GIR and putts per round is when you play a course with small greens and several shots end up on the fringe.




    This is my home course. Not a long course, but definitely the smallest greens I've ever played on.
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  • bervinbervin Members Posts: 801

    bervin wrote:

    mahonie wrote:


    I’ve got most rounds from the last 10 years logged in the back of my Filofax (remember them?). Basic Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other. Over time I noticed that my fairways hit was pretty constant, but everything else was fairly inconsistent. I could hit 14 GIR but take 38 putts and shoot 85 or hit 8 GIR, take 28 putts and shoot 80. I could also hit 8 GIR and take 38 putts and shoot 94. Putting and chipping is easiest for me to practice so I focussed on that. I got my scrambling percentage up from 30% to nearer 50% and got my average number of putts down to 30 from 34. I can still shoot 94 but those rounds are a lot rarer now. I can also break 80 more regularly now and shoot low 70s when everything clicks (not that often). From my stats, I know my next area for improvement is 85-120 yards in and that’s where I’m currently focussing my attention. Thing I have noticed is that it takes ages for any improvement to show up in my stats...it’s very gradual increments.




    Speculating here, but perhaps the reason it takes so long to see movement in your stats is because of the nature of the "stat" itself. GIR, for example, is incredibly vague and has a number of variables that impact it. Just marking Yes/No in a GIR column doesn't tell you what you actually need to know to determine where improvement needs to be made. Let's take your 85-120 yard comment as an example. How do you know you need improvement from that range? Is it just speculative, or what you think needs improving because maybe you don't have enough 10 footers for birdie? That would be a bit unrealistic. If you were to keep information about what yardages, lies, course conditions, etc. these GIRs are hit or missed from, and what distance from the hole your GIRs are, or where you missed when you don't get one, it would give you a much more granular look into the details. The devil is in the details and that is where you can identify strengths and weaknesses. I don't think most golfers need to go into this kind of detail to play a game they just want to enjoy, but if you are an analytical proponent, then just thought I'd chime in for your consideration. The reality is you might be tour average from 85-120 and just have unrealistic expectations when you actually need to improve on ballstriking from 150 +. Again, just a made up example, but food for thought.




    I'm not clear how mahonie arrived at the 85-120 yard conclusion from the stats from the stats he listed (Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other). Those are all either scoring or "counting" stats with nary a distance to be found except for "putting distance holed".



    To amplify on bervin's point, if you want to analyze your game instead of simply counting things up and watching them change (or not) over time then you start and end with distances. If you can't look back through the stats and see how shots from 85-120 yards turned out relative to shots from <85 or 120+ yards then you can't really reach a stats-based conclusion at all.



    The key determinant of the outcome of a shot is how long it is. A 1-foot putt is much easier than a 10-footer is much easier than a 100-footer and an 85-yard approach is easier than a 185-yard approach. Until you tabulate the distances from which you were approach the green, you can't really look inside a stat like GIR. Fifty percent of GIR from 85 yards is pretty terrible. Fifty percent of GIR from 185 is pretty awesome.



    If you have enough information to compute "putting distance holed" it sounds like you're recording the distance of your final putt on each hole. Any time you 2-putt or 3-putt it would be more useful to know the distance of your initial putt on that hole. It may also be that mahonie is recording distance information and just forgot to list it.




    Absolutely correct.



    It could also be that Mahonie doesn't care to get this detailed in terms of conducting a metrics-based analysis on his golf game. BY FAR the majority of golfers do not. But since he brought up stats and, to some degree, analysis - I thought I'd weigh in. I've found that in this forum, you can't preach analytics or you'll become an outcast in a hurry.
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  • bervinbervin Members Posts: 801


    The skewed aspect of GIR and putts per round is when you play a course with small greens and several shots end up on the fringe.




    You're correct, but you are scraping just the tip of the iceberg. This is only one variable of on-course reality that can impact the significance of your statistics. There are many, many more variables that impact the data, too.
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  • nosedive32nosedive32 Members Posts: 530 ✭✭
    I generally play a cut with the driver. If there's trouble or just not room left I get really uncomfortable and usually hit a big block or duck hook. So on dogleg lefts I take 3 Wood because I can turn it over

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  • BubbtubbsBubbtubbs Members Posts: 391 ✭✭
    bervin wrote:


    bervin wrote:

    mahonie wrote:


    I’ve got most rounds from the last 10 years logged in the back of my Filofax (remember them?). Basic Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other. Over time I noticed that my fairways hit was pretty constant, but everything else was fairly inconsistent. I could hit 14 GIR but take 38 putts and shoot 85 or hit 8 GIR, take 28 putts and shoot 80. I could also hit 8 GIR and take 38 putts and shoot 94. Putting and chipping is easiest for me to practice so I focussed on that. I got my scrambling percentage up from 30% to nearer 50% and got my average number of putts down to 30 from 34. I can still shoot 94 but those rounds are a lot rarer now. I can also break 80 more regularly now and shoot low 70s when everything clicks (not that often). From my stats, I know my next area for improvement is 85-120 yards in and that’s where I’m currently focussing my attention. Thing I have noticed is that it takes ages for any improvement to show up in my stats...it’s very gradual increments.




    Speculating here, but perhaps the reason it takes so long to see movement in your stats is because of the nature of the "stat" itself. GIR, for example, is incredibly vague and has a number of variables that impact it. Just marking Yes/No in a GIR column doesn't tell you what you actually need to know to determine where improvement needs to be made. Let's take your 85-120 yard comment as an example. How do you know you need improvement from that range? Is it just speculative, or what you think needs improving because maybe you don't have enough 10 footers for birdie? That would be a bit unrealistic. If you were to keep information about what yardages, lies, course conditions, etc. these GIRs are hit or missed from, and what distance from the hole your GIRs are, or where you missed when you don't get one, it would give you a much more granular look into the details. The devil is in the details and that is where you can identify strengths and weaknesses. I don't think most golfers need to go into this kind of detail to play a game they just want to enjoy, but if you are an analytical proponent, then just thought I'd chime in for your consideration. The reality is you might be tour average from 85-120 and just have unrealistic expectations when you actually need to improve on ballstriking from 150 +. Again, just a made up example, but food for thought.




    I'm not clear how mahonie arrived at the 85-120 yard conclusion from the stats from the stats he listed (Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other). Those are all either scoring or "counting" stats with nary a distance to be found except for "putting distance holed".



    To amplify on bervin's point, if you want to analyze your game instead of simply counting things up and watching them change (or not) over time then you start and end with distances. If you can't look back through the stats and see how shots from 85-120 yards turned out relative to shots from <85 or 120+ yards then you can't really reach a stats-based conclusion at all.



    The key determinant of the outcome of a shot is how long it is. A 1-foot putt is much easier than a 10-footer is much easier than a 100-footer and an 85-yard approach is easier than a 185-yard approach. Until you tabulate the distances from which you were approach the green, you can't really look inside a stat like GIR. Fifty percent of GIR from 85 yards is pretty terrible. Fifty percent of GIR from 185 is pretty awesome.



    If you have enough information to compute "putting distance holed" it sounds like you're recording the distance of your final putt on each hole. Any time you 2-putt or 3-putt it would be more useful to know the distance of your initial putt on that hole. It may also be that mahonie is recording distance information and just forgot to list it.




    Absolutely correct.



    It could also be that Mahonie doesn't care to get this detailed in terms of conducting a metrics-based analysis on his golf game. BY FAR the majority of golfers do not. But since he brought up stats and, to some degree, analysis - I thought I'd weigh in. I've found that in this forum, you can't preach analytics or you'll become an outcast in a hurry.


    How else do you measure improvement, though? It needs to have a quantitative metric so you can look back and see which areas improved and by how much.



    Otherwise we're all just going by feelings, which are revisionist and affected by mood.
  • mahoniemahonie Members Posts: 2,437 ✭✭
    Bubbtubbs wrote:

    bervin wrote:


    bervin wrote:

    mahonie wrote:


    I’ve got most rounds from the last 10 years logged in the back of my Filofax (remember them?). Basic Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other. Over time I noticed that my fairways hit was pretty constant, but everything else was fairly inconsistent. I could hit 14 GIR but take 38 putts and shoot 85 or hit 8 GIR, take 28 putts and shoot 80. I could also hit 8 GIR and take 38 putts and shoot 94. Putting and chipping is easiest for me to practice so I focussed on that. I got my scrambling percentage up from 30% to nearer 50% and got my average number of putts down to 30 from 34. I can still shoot 94 but those rounds are a lot rarer now. I can also break 80 more regularly now and shoot low 70s when everything clicks (not that often). From my stats, I know my next area for improvement is 85-120 yards in and that’s where I’m currently focussing my attention. Thing I have noticed is that it takes ages for any improvement to show up in my stats...it’s very gradual increments.




    Speculating here, but perhaps the reason it takes so long to see movement in your stats is because of the nature of the "stat" itself. GIR, for example, is incredibly vague and has a number of variables that impact it. Just marking Yes/No in a GIR column doesn't tell you what you actually need to know to determine where improvement needs to be made. Let's take your 85-120 yard comment as an example. How do you know you need improvement from that range? Is it just speculative, or what you think needs improving because maybe you don't have enough 10 footers for birdie? That would be a bit unrealistic. If you were to keep information about what yardages, lies, course conditions, etc. these GIRs are hit or missed from, and what distance from the hole your GIRs are, or where you missed when you don't get one, it would give you a much more granular look into the details. The devil is in the details and that is where you can identify strengths and weaknesses. I don't think most golfers need to go into this kind of detail to play a game they just want to enjoy, but if you are an analytical proponent, then just thought I'd chime in for your consideration. The reality is you might be tour average from 85-120 and just have unrealistic expectations when you actually need to improve on ballstriking from 150 +. Again, just a made up example, but food for thought.




    I'm not clear how mahonie arrived at the 85-120 yard conclusion from the stats from the stats he listed (Fairways hit, GIR, Putting distance holed, number of putts, scrambling, 1-putts and 3-putts, birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles, other). Those are all either scoring or "counting" stats with nary a distance to be found except for "putting distance holed".



    To amplify on bervin's point, if you want to analyze your game instead of simply counting things up and watching them change (or not) over time then you start and end with distances. If you can't look back through the stats and see how shots from 85-120 yards turned out relative to shots from <85 or 120+ yards then you can't really reach a stats-based conclusion at all.



    The key determinant of the outcome of a shot is how long it is. A 1-foot putt is much easier than a 10-footer is much easier than a 100-footer and an 85-yard approach is easier than a 185-yard approach. Until you tabulate the distances from which you were approach the green, you can't really look inside a stat like GIR. Fifty percent of GIR from 85 yards is pretty terrible. Fifty percent of GIR from 185 is pretty awesome.



    If you have enough information to compute "putting distance holed" it sounds like you're recording the distance of your final putt on each hole. Any time you 2-putt or 3-putt it would be more useful to know the distance of your initial putt on that hole. It may also be that mahonie is recording distance information and just forgot to list it.




    Absolutely correct.



    It could also be that Mahonie doesn't care to get this detailed in terms of conducting a metrics-based analysis on his golf game. BY FAR the majority of golfers do not. But since he brought up stats and, to some degree, analysis - I thought I'd weigh in. I've found that in this forum, you can't preach analytics or you'll become an outcast in a hurry.


    How else do you measure improvement, though? It needs to have a quantitative metric so you can look back and see which areas improved and by how much.



    Otherwise we're all just going by feelings, which are revisionist and affected by mood.




    I list every club played for every shot and the vast majority of my rounds are at my home course where I know the exact yardages (although I don’t record them) so from that I can determine that the weakest clubs in my bag are 9-iron to LW. It’s not surprising to me really as for years as a kid the most lofted club in my bag was 8-iron. Even now, 8-iron is the most used club in my bag excepting putter. What it did do was cause me to develop some poor habits with pitching in that I tried to ‘scoop’ pitch shots in order to add loft. My pitching technique has improved over the years, but it is nowhere near as good as my game from 130-200 yards. As most approaches at my home course are from 85 to 120 yards it is relatively easy to track progress.



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  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,436 ✭✭
    mahonie wrote:


    I list every club played for every shot and the vast majority of my rounds are at my home course where I know the exact yardages (although I don’t record them) so from that I can determine that the weakest clubs in my bag are 9-iron to LW. It’s not surprising to me really as for years as a kid the most lofted club in my bag was 8-iron. Even now, 8-iron is the most used club in my bag excepting putter. What it did do was cause me to develop some poor habits with pitching in that I tried to ‘scoop’ pitch shots in order to add loft. My pitching technique has improved over the years, but it is nowhere near as good as my game from 130-200 yards. As most approaches at my home course are from 85 to 120 yards it is relatively easy to track progress.




    This only makes sense if you assume you are pulling the correct club at each yardage.



    You will never, under this system, hit a half swing 9 iron from 110. Your records would just say 9 iron. But maybe that’s a great shot for you.



    Obviously I’m not trying to get on you - you do you - but this system of yours doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for identifying what to improve. It’s a loop. You always hit X from Y, so you only write down Y. Well, if X should have been Z you have no way to know. You need the yardage or your spinning your wheels.
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  • NeigeNeige Members Posts: 200 ✭✭

    mahonie wrote:


    I list every club played for every shot and the vast majority of my rounds are at my home course where I know the exact yardages (although I don’t record them) so from that I can determine that the weakest clubs in my bag are 9-iron to LW. It’s not surprising to me really as for years as a kid the most lofted club in my bag was 8-iron. Even now, 8-iron is the most used club in my bag excepting putter. What it did do was cause me to develop some poor habits with pitching in that I tried to ‘scoop’ pitch shots in order to add loft. My pitching technique has improved over the years, but it is nowhere near as good as my game from 130-200 yards. As most approaches at my home course are from 85 to 120 yards it is relatively easy to track progress.




    This only makes sense if you assume you are pulling the correct club at each yardage.



    You will never, under this system, hit a half swing 9 iron from 110. Your records would just say 9 iron. But maybe that’s a great shot for you.



    Obviously I’m not trying to get on you - you do you - but this system of yours doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for identifying what to improve. It’s a loop. You always hit X from Y, so you only write down Y. Well, if X should have been Z you have no way to know. You need the yardage or your spinning your wheels.




    In some data I posted at http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1613890-15-hours-of-club-comparison-on-a-simulator-eg-mb-vs-gi-high-handicap/, my 8I dispersion per distance in two sets of clubs is better than pw and 9I. I was surprised to find that. The trend then reverses to "normal" after 8I. The absolute dispersion though is higher with 8I. For the 3W vs Driver, the driver dispersion is both noticeably higher than that of 3W per distance, and the absolute values make a driver very punishing. The former i think is the same for everyone to some degree, while the latter depends on one's skills and fairway width.
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  • mahoniemahonie Members Posts: 2,437 ✭✭
    Neige wrote:


    mahonie wrote:


    I list every club played for every shot and the vast majority of my rounds are at my home course where I know the exact yardages (although I don’t record them) so from that I can determine that the weakest clubs in my bag are 9-iron to LW. It’s not surprising to me really as for years as a kid the most lofted club in my bag was 8-iron. Even now, 8-iron is the most used club in my bag excepting putter. What it did do was cause me to develop some poor habits with pitching in that I tried to ‘scoop’ pitch shots in order to add loft. My pitching technique has improved over the years, but it is nowhere near as good as my game from 130-200 yards. As most approaches at my home course are from 85 to 120 yards it is relatively easy to track progress.




    This only makes sense if you assume you are pulling the correct club at each yardage.



    You will never, under this system, hit a half swing 9 iron from 110. Your records would just say 9 iron. But maybe that’s a great shot for you.



    Obviously I’m not trying to get on you - you do you - but this system of yours doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for identifying what to improve. It’s a loop. You always hit X from Y, so you only write down Y. Well, if X should have been Z you have no way to know. You need the yardage or your spinning your wheels.




    In some data I posted at http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1613890-15-hours-of-club-comparison-on-a-simulator-eg-mb-vs-gi-high-handicap/, my 8I dispersion per distance in two sets of clubs is better than pw and 9I. I was surprised to find that. The trend then reverses to "normal" after 8I. The absolute dispersion though is higher with 8I. For the 3W vs Driver, the driver dispersion is both noticeably higher than that of 3W per distance, and the absolute values make a driver very punishing. The former i think is the same for everyone to some degree, while the latter depends on one's skills and fairway width.




    I realise that my way of doing it does not provide absolute data. Having said that I also realise that there are so many variables for each shot outside of which club I pick, what swing I put on it and what yardage I have. Course conditions, wind direction, wind strength, temperature all impact. However, when I’m inputting my round data, I also analyse where I have lost shots and make a mental note of what I need to do to improve that particular situation. So when I identify that I’ve only hit 2/10 greens when hitting approaches from 85-120 yards I know that’s where I need to focus. Especially when I’ve hit 6/8 from 120+ yards. As a feel player, I suppose I get a ‘feel’ for where my game is weak. As I posted before, working on my chipping and putting really has lowered my scoring. I still make sure my long game is functional, the next stage for me is those shorter approach shots.
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  • matchavezmatchavez Members Posts: 4,140 ✭✭
    Neige wrote:


    mahonie wrote:


    I list every club played for every shot and the vast majority of my rounds are at my home course where I know the exact yardages (although I don’t record them) so from that I can determine that the weakest clubs in my bag are 9-iron to LW. It’s not surprising to me really as for years as a kid the most lofted club in my bag was 8-iron. Even now, 8-iron is the most used club in my bag excepting putter. What it did do was cause me to develop some poor habits with pitching in that I tried to ‘scoop’ pitch shots in order to add loft. My pitching technique has improved over the years, but it is nowhere near as good as my game from 130-200 yards. As most approaches at my home course are from 85 to 120 yards it is relatively easy to track progress.




    This only makes sense if you assume you are pulling the correct club at each yardage.



    You will never, under this system, hit a half swing 9 iron from 110. Your records would just say 9 iron. But maybe that’s a great shot for you.



    Obviously I’m not trying to get on you - you do you - but this system of yours doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for identifying what to improve. It’s a loop. You always hit X from Y, so you only write down Y. Well, if X should have been Z you have no way to know. You need the yardage or your spinning your wheels.




    In some data I posted at http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1613890-15-hours-of-club-comparison-on-a-simulator-eg-mb-vs-gi-high-handicap/, my 8I dispersion per distance in two sets of clubs is better than pw and 9I. I was surprised to find that. The trend then reverses to "normal" after 8I. The absolute dispersion though is higher with 8I. For the 3W vs Driver, the driver dispersion is both noticeably higher than that of 3W per distance, and the absolute values make a driver very punishing. The former i think is the same for everyone to some degree, while the latter depends on one's skills and fairway width.






    Mate, get some SLIs built identically to that 8i!
  • Ri_RedneckRi_Redneck Leather for Life!! Members Posts: 5,448 ✭✭
    Bye wrote:
    Bye wrote:
    I keep looking at these aps that track shot data, but I know I will just obsess about it.
    I use Broadie's app called "Golfmetrics" and I can only do it periodically for maybe 10-15 rounds every few months. Otherwise I do indeed "obsess about it" to the detriment of my enjoyment and possibly my scores. So I just "check in" for six weeks once in a while to see if my stats have changed, which they usually have not.
    I actually dont really *gasp* track numerical stats. I bought a little book, its leather, I'm not sure of the name but i've seen them at cash registers at alot of golf stores. It has a flap on the left for a yardage book and on the right it has a scorecard that is set up well for taking lots of notes. Its the perfect size to stick up just slightly in the back left pocket (glove in back right). It also has a small little folder behind the yadage book for notes about the course you're playing. Its a neat package. I generally write down whatever I'm thinking while I'm playing and any other information i think should go in there. 1. its harder to do something stupid if you have to write it down first. 2. its easy to see really stupid mistakes if you read back through outside of the heat of the round (being too aggressive, not aggressive enough, etc..). 3. i only really do it in rounds i care about i.e. ones where i keep score. most rounds i'm just having fun, but when i put on the game face i write it all down. 3. i'm not very different in terms of accuracy with driver and 3 wood, my notes have shown this to be true over time. i don't have it down to numbers, but i do know when i go to 3 wood to find the fairway or driver doesn't matter much *for me*. 4. i get way too much into the "let's just protect this score with pars" mode way too fast in events - that's the devil of golf, i know i do it, and i still can't stop! lol anyway, that's what i do. i don't quantify it. I just write it down and look at it later when i'm not in the round and try to find patterns over several rounds.
    I did gasp! Lots of interesting points there. It is easy for a memory to be lost of skewed in the heat of the moment. Writing stuff down sounds like it something that is worth trying. Par protection mode is the default style of most players when they have good score going. Or even at the start of an important round. It is hard to break because those horrible thoughts just come from nowhere. I know that playing too conservatively (especially from the tee) over the years has cost me a lot. I grew up playing on a course where a bad shot would be a lost ball and a big number. Learning how, when and where to miss a shot IMO is huge in this game. Probably like others this shots gained stuff intrigues me, but I am not 100% convinced that it will help my game.
    It also helps on courses you play events on a lot. For example on the notes page for #2 at TPC Louisiana I have in huge sharpie across the entire hole in the yardage book "DO NOT AIM LEFT. AIM RIGHT. AIM WAY RIGHT. AIM RIGHT." The hole has a bunker up the left side that if you carry you can cut off and get up in two, but the entire right side is wide open - to the point that its basically impossible to miss, even though you have to lay up, its the right play for me. I've tried to go left there so many times and come up short and made 7 my notes have taught me its a horrible idea to play aggressively there. We know mechanical errors - i.e. huge hooks and blocks - and we set out to fix them. This is the only way I could come up with to "fix" bad decisions. Write them down and review them later.




    PSG,

    You mention #2 which I remember well, my issue wasn't where to aim my drive, but where to layup! I was about 270 out and I had to decide whether to layup short of the big bunker front right of the green (35 yds wide and 90 yds to center) with a 5i or try to thread the needle left of it (18 yds wide) with a 3w and get as close as possible? Your thoughts on that?



    BT
    Bag 1
    F7 9.5* - Aldila Copperhead 70TX @ 44.5
    King LTD Blk 14.5* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43
    King LTD Blk 19* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5
    Mizuno MP15 4-pw - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
    Mizuno MP-T5 Black 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge

    Bag 2
    Mizuno ST180 9.5* - Diamana Kai'Li 70 X
    Mizuno GPX850 14.5* - Motore Speeder TS 7.3 S
    Mizuno GPX850 20* - Motore Speeder TS 8.3
    Mizuno MP25 4-pw - Recoil Proto 125 F4
    Mizuno MP-T5 Satin 52, 56, & 60 TT Wedge
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,436 ✭✭
    Ri_Redneck wrote:


    PSG,

    You mention #2 which I remember well, my issue wasn't where to aim my drive, but where to layup! I was about 270 out and I had to decide whether to layup short of the big bunker front right of the green (35 yds wide and 90 yds to center) with a 5i or try to thread the needle left of it (18 yds wide) with a 3w and get as close as possible? Your thoughts on that?



    BT




    I always play the hole the same way - a combo of the two! I thread the needle with a 5 iron into the layup area on the left. I usually hit it pretty low and running, there is a decent amount of space over there. I hate that huge bunker. If the wind is behind me and I catch it off the tee sometimes I'll hit 3 wood up the right side, knowing I can't make it and leave a 10 yard bunker shot that I'm comfortable with but usually I play it right off the tee, left lay up, wedge in. Hitting wedge in from the left is so much easier than any other angle IMO. You're long enough that unless you're on the Dye tees you could hit driver/wood -> 5 iron/4 iron and have 105-125 left with that nice angle.



    As you know / have seen, I'm not skittish about hitting a 3 wood as hard as i can at anything but I could only bang my head into that hole so many times before I had to stop! That thing is a beast. I think the only way to play it well is to get it up the right then layup low and running back up the left. Anything to the left off the tee or right into the green is usually a disaster unless I have enough wind that I can get way up in that bunker on the right.



    Its a great hole. Only #3 is out of place (that kinda dull, stupid par 3) on that front 9 its some great golf and super interesting holes! The back is significantly weaker at TPC, IMO.
    Ping G30 10.5* 14.5* 17* TFC-419 stiff
    Bridgestone j40 3-PW 52* 57* DG s300
    Scotty Cameron Big Sur s 34"
  • Ri_RedneckRi_Redneck Leather for Life!! Members Posts: 5,448 ✭✭
    Ri_Redneck wrote:


    PSG,

    You mention #2 which I remember well, my issue wasn't where to aim my drive, but where to layup! I was about 270 out and I had to decide whether to layup short of the big bunker front right of the green (35 yds wide and 90 yds to center) with a 5i or try to thread the needle left of it (18 yds wide) with a 3w and get as close as possible? Your thoughts on that?



    BT




    I always play the hole the same way - a combo of the two! I thread the needle with a 5 iron into the layup area on the left. I usually hit it pretty low and running, there is a decent amount of space over there. I hate that huge bunker. If the wind is behind me and I catch it off the tee sometimes I'll hit 3 wood up the right side, knowing I can't make it and leave a 10 yard bunker shot that I'm comfortable with but usually I play it right off the tee, left lay up, wedge in. Hitting wedge in from the left is so much easier than any other angle IMO. You're long enough that unless you're on the Dye tees you could hit driver/wood -> 5 iron/4 iron and have 105-125 left with that nice angle.



    As you know / have seen, I'm not skittish about hitting a 3 wood as hard as i can at anything but I could only bang my head into that hole so many times before I had to stop! That thing is a beast. I think the only way to play it well is to get it up the right then layup low and running back up the left. Anything to the left off the tee or right into the green is usually a disaster unless I have enough wind that I can get way up in that bunker on the right.



    Its a great hole. Only #3 is out of place (that kinda dull, stupid par 3) on that front 9 its some great golf and super interesting holes! The back is significantly weaker at TPC, IMO.


    That's what I figured. IIRC, I played a 3w the first round (good drive) and iron layup the second. Tough hole though for sure.



    BT
    Bag 1
    F7 9.5* - Aldila Copperhead 70TX @ 44.5
    King LTD Blk 14.5* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43
    King LTD Blk 19* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5
    Mizuno MP15 4-pw - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
    Mizuno MP-T5 Black 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge

    Bag 2
    Mizuno ST180 9.5* - Diamana Kai'Li 70 X
    Mizuno GPX850 14.5* - Motore Speeder TS 7.3 S
    Mizuno GPX850 20* - Motore Speeder TS 8.3
    Mizuno MP25 4-pw - Recoil Proto 125 F4
    Mizuno MP-T5 Satin 52, 56, & 60 TT Wedge
  • rsd1244rsd1244 Members Posts: 82
    I have been using a callaway mini diver and love it
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,436 ✭✭
    edited Apr 4, 2018 #1441
    Ri_Redneck wrote:
    Ri_Redneck wrote:


    PSG,

    You mention #2 which I remember well, my issue wasn't where to aim my drive, but where to layup! I was about 270 out and I had to decide whether to layup short of the big bunker front right of the green (35 yds wide and 90 yds to center) with a 5i or try to thread the needle left of it (18 yds wide) with a 3w and get as close as possible? Your thoughts on that?



    BT




    I always play the hole the same way - a combo of the two! I thread the needle with a 5 iron into the layup area on the left. I usually hit it pretty low and running, there is a decent amount of space over there. I hate that huge bunker. If the wind is behind me and I catch it off the tee sometimes I'll hit 3 wood up the right side, knowing I can't make it and leave a 10 yard bunker shot that I'm comfortable with but usually I play it right off the tee, left lay up, wedge in. Hitting wedge in from the left is so much easier than any other angle IMO. You're long enough that unless you're on the Dye tees you could hit driver/wood -> 5 iron/4 iron and have 105-125 left with that nice angle.



    As you know / have seen, I'm not skittish about hitting a 3 wood as hard as i can at anything but I could only bang my head into that hole so many times before I had to stop! That thing is a beast. I think the only way to play it well is to get it up the right then layup low and running back up the left. Anything to the left off the tee or right into the green is usually a disaster unless I have enough wind that I can get way up in that bunker on the right.



    Its a great hole. Only #3 is out of place (that kinda dull, stupid par 3) on that front 9 its some great golf and super interesting holes! The back is significantly weaker at TPC, IMO.


    That's what I figured. IIRC, I played a 3w the first round (good drive) and iron layup the second. Tough hole though for sure.



    BT




    Had another tough course management decision at TPC today on number 6.



    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Ping G30 10.5* 14.5* 17* TFC-419 stiff
    Bridgestone j40 3-PW 52* 57* DG s300
    Scotty Cameron Big Sur s 34"
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