Why no nasty short putts on tour?

Was hitting a nasty short putt the other day and realized its prob the hardest putt or even hardest part of the game as you should make it 100% of time when that short. Then I thought how do the pros handle those real ugly short ones....then suddenly realized they don't face really nasty short ones on tour and cups are in flattish spots....

Do pros really get to skip out on the toughest part of the game? and why if so...please don't tell me its so they look better

edit: watched some LPGA KPMG major action yesterday....cause majors supposed to be tougher right....slope around cups look flatter then a PGA regular event. Hey I understand why they want to look better guess I was a little hot when I noticed it but all sports change their game over the years for more offense it makes it more fun and watchable for the fans....we all like more exciting performances! But golf is a lot different cause we all play and can relate to a huge % of what a pro is doing, specially us par golfers, but none of us play tackle football, race round Daytona, can dunk on Shaq, BUT they're hundreds of dudes on this site that can beat Dustin Johnson if he finds the water a couple times....so we're waay more involved with the pro golf experience trying to compare our games/courses/cup placements to theirs.

They just make it look easy and they don't baby the short ones.

I don't know that the pins are cut in flat positions. I think watching on TV doesn't do full justice to the severity of the slopes. I think it just has to do with the fact that they hit hundreds of short putts daily and make it look easy.

They make it look easy, but I think the TV lies... everything looks pretty flat on TV... Except the weather girls lol..

Just no...that isn't the case.

I think some good points are made above, but I also think the Pro Tour has some of the nicest greens that you can put on. The speed is good the roll is smooth, characteristics that aren't generally found on most courses. Look at the tee boxes they use and they look like pool table tops, as opposed to the divot laden, crowned, uncut tees that are at most public courses.

The pins are ridiculous. They rarely have perfectly flat putts around the holes

They had a web.com qualifier at my home course once. I played the day before and the pin positions for the qualifier were marked. I have never seen pin positions that easy before.

I asked the pro about it and he said there is a limit to how much slope there can be around the hole for tour events.

They had a web.com qualifier at my home course once. I played the day before and the pin positions for the qualifier were marked. I have never seen pin positions that easy before.

 

I asked the pro about it and he said there is a limit to how much slope there can be around the hole for tour events.

I have heard something similar. I believe there is a limit to how much slope there can between within 3 feet around the hole. So no putting the cup on the side of a slope which seems to happen frequently at my home course.

^^^

It's a qualifier, they wanted those guys around there in as little time as possible. Completely different event in the tournament proper, different course even.

The pins are ridiculous. They rarely have perfectly flat putts around the holes

This is incorrect. Most 3 foot putts on tour are fairly straight. Get to about 5 foot and they can get some slope. You have to understand when you're putting on greens that are running 12 to 13, you can't place pins on slopes.. it would be a blood bath.

It's just what goes hand in hand with these guys playing every week on greens that stimp faster that anything many golfers have ever seen. I personally believe that there is very little easy about it, it's simply that they're so good they make it appear that way. You may be able to make a case that their short putts break less on average than on some other courses where the greens are slow enough that they can cut holes almost anywhere they choose. But due to the speed of the greens the tradeoff for having straightish close putts are having insanely difficult lag putts, also for pros, leaving approaches above the hole can spell disaster. In my opinion, anyone who thinks they have it tougher putting at their home course than the pros do, is delusional.

There are general guidelines about where to place pins and i believe that it is "suggested" that they be in areas that are relatively flat for 3-5 feet (whatever it is) on all sides. My guess would be that the PGA tour does indeed follow these more than some country clubs where inexperienced people are laying down the pins

For example just today there were 2 pins at my club that i don't think would ever fly on tour. i think all they tell the guys at my club is "drop the ball around the hole and if it doesn't move it's OK"....however they do this at 5AM when the greens are wet. I had a flag a few weeks ago where if you dropped the ball from 3 feet in the air any side of the hole it would roll 20 feet down a slope. That would never happen on tour.

Don't forget their greens are (usually) in immaculate condition as well. Now some of us (not me) are blessed enough to be members of great clubs with amazing greens. Others of us play goat tracks regularly that the worst putt in the world is a short putt.

Gotta play the bumps bro :)

The pins are ridiculous. They rarely have perfectly flat putts around the holes

 

This is incorrect. Most 3 foot putts on tour are fairly straight. Get to about 5 foot and they can get some slope. You have to understand when you're putting on greens that are running 12 to 13, you can't place pins on slopes.. it would be a blood bath.

I always thought the faster the greens the easier 3 footers are. You have to have control of the putter face for approximately a 2 inch stroke.

They had a web.com qualifier at my home course once. I played the day before and the pin positions for the qualifier were marked. I have never seen pin positions that easy before.

 

I asked the pro about it and he said there is a limit to how much slope there can be around the hole for tour events.

Pace of play has something to do with it. But otherwise I think somewhere between 2.5 and 3 degrees is about as far as they will go.

Yeah, but the faster the greens the more nervy the putt

Taken from USGA website:

https://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16

"An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade. In no case should holes be located in tricky places, or on sharp slopes where a ball can gather speed. A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole."

My home course hosts the Sanderson Farms PGA event.

I can say for a fact that they don't hesitate to put the pins in difficult spots. What they don't do is put the pins in stupid spots.

These guys are just fantastic at putting. Every one of them. You don't make it to the Tour if you're putting has anything in common with most of us.

What amazes me is not only how well the putt, but how well they read the greens. Our greens can be quite tricky - but the guys in the leaderboard have figured them out and are seeing all of the subtle nuances and tendencies, even though they've only seen the course a few times. It's impressive.

Some do have trouble:

They were talking about this at the US Open and they said they preferred to place the hole in a position where the slope close to the hole was around 1% and they didn't exceed 3% (that is an elevation change of 3 feet over 100 feet) so you can see that around the hole, it isn't too bad. Of course the 30 foot putt to get to the hole might be brutal. Lol.

They just make it look easy and they don't baby the short ones.

It's this.

The courses they play and the situations they find themselves in are as hard and often harder than what you find yourself in, they're just really really good at it.

Watching professional golf on TV makes the game look easier than it is.

The pins are ridiculous. They rarely have perfectly flat putts around the holes

This isnt true, the tour wont put cup on a slope of more than 2.5%

The pins are ridiculous. They rarely have perfectly flat putts around the holes

This isnt true, the tour wont put cup on a slope of more than 2.5%

They might not be ridiculous as far as putting them on extreme slopes goes (which is silly anyway IMO), but they are ridiculous as far as tucking them and cutting them near the edges goes. Tour pins are waaaay harder than anything an amateur sees, ever.

There are general guidelines about where to place pins and i believe that it is "suggested" that they be in areas that are relatively flat for 3-5 feet (whatever it is) on all sides. My guess would be that the PGA tour does indeed follow these more than some country clubs where inexperienced people are laying down the pins

 

For example just today there were 2 pins at my club that i don't think would ever fly on tour. i think all they tell the guys at my club is "drop the ball around the hole and if it doesn't move it's OK"....however they do this at 5AM when the greens are wet. I had a flag a few weeks ago where if you dropped the ball from 3 feet in the air any side of the hole it would roll 20 feet down a slope. That would never happen on tour.

They just make it look easy and they don't baby the short ones.

I agree; I watched YouTube footage of pros 4-putting, and it is amazing how much juice they give the short putts

There are general guidelines about where to place pins and i believe that it is "suggested" that they be in areas that are relatively flat for 3-5 feet (whatever it is) on all sides. My guess would be that the PGA tour does indeed follow these more than some country clubs where inexperienced people are laying down the pins

 

For example just today there were 2 pins at my club that i don't think would ever fly on tour. i think all they tell the guys at my club is "drop the ball around the hole and if it doesn't move it's OK"....however they do this at 5AM when the greens are wet. I had a flag a few weeks ago where if you dropped the ball from 3 feet in the air any side of the hole it would roll 20 feet down a slope. That would never happen on tour.

Just at the US Open at Olympic? Probably some Master's rounds as well.

I've obviously never been in a tour event, i assume there are some borderline pins. Especially at US Opens that blur the line between "fair" sometimes

My comment is just that there are private clubs with tricky greens , and are having inexperienced people put flags on them, and sometimes you get really ridiculous pins that would never fly in a tournament where knowledgeable people are responsible for placing them.

The pins are ridiculous. They rarely have perfectly flat putts around the holes

This isnt true, the tour wont put cup on a slope of more than 2.5%

 

They might not be ridiculous as far as putting them on extreme slopes goes (which is silly anyway IMO), but they are ridiculous as far as tucking them and cutting them near the edges goes. Tour pins are waaaay harder than anything an amateur sees, ever.

Thrill,

You are one of the best here at the wrx, but I'm sorry to say you are way off on this one.

The tour basically uses USGA recommendations for hole placements: flat spots, enough room to stiff a required shot from good position, and at least 4 yards from the edges. (The only one I can think of where it isn't 4 yards is the back location on the very short par 4 #10 at Riviera. The back of that green is about 7 yards wide – split that and it’s 3.5 yards or 10 feet from the edge.)

Sorry to say some of us have to put up with a-holes/idiots placing holes where they should not. I have played in tournaments with very firm and fast greens. Multiple holes tucked to 5 to 6 FEET (on greens roughly 30 x 30 yards) from the edge. Also placed on knobs or edges of slopes where a slight miss will leave you with 15-20'. (We have had these situations in our Club Championship more than once.) Even played a pro-am where the green had had major back to front slope and if you got above the hole you could not stop it and it would roll off the green if not holed. That hole was backed up and you could watch the clown show. Good for you guys if you haven’t had to put up with stuff.

Ritchie Hunt (tour stats guy) made a few good posts on this topic awhile back. Basically said the same things they said on the Open telecast - which is they stay below 3% slope. He also mentioned that the players make more short putts at Augusta because the greens are fast and so smooth. (I believe he said less than 8’.) He also mentioned that they also 3 putt more there as they have a hard time from long distance getting it close enough to make the next one. Look, “these guys are good” but let's not get carried away. They basically have the same conditions each week and have excellent green maps as well.

Best,

MM

Reasonably flat near the hole + stimps of 12+ + TV + really freakin good = looks easy.

They miss enough shorties to make me feel it's not so easy.