The secret is

The right tricep
«1

Comments

  • Pinsplitter59Pinsplitter59 Members Posts: 976 ✭✭
    hmmmmmmmm.... intriguing and

    absorbing, alluring, appealing, beguiling, captivating, compelling, curious, enthralling, exciting,fascinating,gripping,provocative,puzzling,riveting,stimulating,stirring,thought-provoking, arousing, enchanting.
  • jacot23jacot23 Members Posts: 1,317
    Yes, but is it more important in the backswing or downswing.
    Mizuno JPX-900 Driver Graphite Design Nano Reloaded S flex 44.75"
    Callaway X2Hot 17* fairway
    Adams Tight Lies 3&4 hybrid
    Cobra King F7 irons 4-PW
    Vokey SM6 50*& 56*(raw) wedges
    34" Machine M2 Converter Aluminum Bronze w/center shaft hosel,
    Steelfiber i110 S flex tipped 2.5",
    Winn mid size pistol grip.

    WITB
  • JD3JD3 Members Posts: 4,393 ✭✭
    What part of the right tricep?
    TM M1 2017 Aldila NV 2KXV Green 65x 10.5
    TM M1 2016 3W HL Motore Tour 8.3s 17
    Titleist 816 H1 Motore Tour 9.3s 21
    Cobra S3 Pro DGS300 3 - PW
    Yururi Tataki 52.5 & 60.5 DGS300
    Ping Anser 2 Milled
    ProV1x
    UA Drive One Shoes
    Footjoy Tour Glove
  • SwitterSwitter Members Posts: 397
    Personally I dont think its any secret! The more efficient my swing becomes, the more I use both right & left arm tricepts. This is recognizable by the soreness that developes in the region.



    IMO Hogans great secret was that there is no secret! His success was the result of natural athletic talent, thousands of hours of practice, physical training, proper nutrition, & strong mental agility & ability to endure & win.



    Ben Hogan is proof that Ali lied about being the "greatest!"
    Driver: Callaway V Series Adj. 10.5*
    Driver Shaft: Mitsubishi Rayon Bassara
    Irons: Callaway 2017 Steelhead XR Matrix Ozik F15 graphite 6I - AW
    Hybrids: Callaway 2017 Steelhead XR Matrix Ozik F15 graphite #3,#4,#5,#6
    Wedges: Titleist Vokey 56* & 60* TT DG S300
    Putter: Pro Gear PG100 C-Groove with Lamkin "Technique" Mid-sized Grip
    Grips: Chamois "Avon" Grips
    Ball: Srixon Q-star Tour
    Bag: Sun Mountain C130

    "Hope is not a solution"!
  • AllenResGolfAllenResGolf Members Posts: 194






    That was part of the secret, the other was the left shoulder.
    "The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations.
    The average player has minimal time to make maximum compensations."
    -Not my quote, but a great one!
  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,252 ClubWRX
    Thanks Oprah. Welcome to GolfWRX.
  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members Posts: 1,000
    Hogan said, "you have to do it with the left arm". Maybe he was only referring to fanning the face open, but I suspect it was something else.
  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 Admiration is the state furthest from understanding. Members Posts: 19,851 ✭✭
    I think any secret has to do with lag pressure through the trigger finger, letting that pressure inform the swing itself, and then delivering "five right hands" through impact when you feel the pressure diminishing towards the bottom of the swing.



    Or, that could just be the painkillers talking...
    Mizuno St-180 9.5
    Mizuno JPX 900 15
    Mizuno CLK 19, 22
    Mizuno JPX 900 5-Gw
    (Wedges TBD)
    (Putter TBD)
    Srixon Z-Star
    WITB
  • David CDavid C Members Posts: 847 ✭✭
    The left arm was about a feeling of the left arm dominating the swing IMO. The whole three right hands business is because if you have the left arm controlling, and left hand in a finger and palm grip, the right hand is in a deliberately subservient position. You can hit as hard as you like with the right - as long as you also hit with the left or the right takes over. Basically, hit with both hands as long as you set it up so the left is in a stronger (as in, more dominant) position. When it is, and you are hitting with both hands, the right can't hit hard enough. So I don't think the right arm is part of the secret.



    But...



    I've only met a handful of people that recognise the hand action section is for *practice*. The downswing consists of hitting in the correct order, and starting down with the hips. As he says, after starting with the hips the rest is instinct.



    For me his 'secret' is the cupped left wrist. But *the* secret, is hours and hours and hours of practice.
  • moehoganmoehogan Members Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    edited Jul 30, 2017 #12
    David C wrote:


    The left arm was about a feeling of the left arm dominating the swing IMO. The whole three right hands business is because if you have the left arm controlling, and left hand in a finger and palm grip, the right hand is in a deliberately subservient position. You can hit as hard as you like with the right - as long as you also hit with the left or the right takes over. Basically, hit with both hands as long as you set it up so the left is in a stronger (as in, more dominant) position. When it is, and you are hitting with both hands, the right can't hit hard enough. So I don't think the right arm is part of the secret.



    But...



    I've only met a handful of people that recognise the hand action section is for *practice*. The downswing consists of hitting in the correct order, and starting down with the hips. As he says, after starting with the hips the rest is instinct.



    For me his 'secret' is the cupped left wrist. But *the* secret, is hours and hours and hours of practice.




    David, then why is the cupped left wrist present in some pre-secret swings?



    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members Posts: 1,000
    The secret of the cupped left wrist is not just the cup, but the move from cupped to arched.
  • moehoganmoehogan Members Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    MizunoJoe wrote:


    The secret of the cupped left wrist is not just the cup, but the move from cupped to arched.




    IMO, cupped to arched is the effect, not the cause. Turning the left forearm/hand CCW against the right hand that is trying to keep its CW winding is what produces the arched or bowed left wrist and a clubface that is square to the clubhead arc. It's done with the grip pressures Hogan detailed in 5L.
  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members Posts: 1,000
    moehogan wrote:

    MizunoJoe wrote:


    The secret of the cupped left wrist is not just the cup, but the move from cupped to arched.




    IMO, cupped to arched is the effect, not the cause. Turning the left forearm/hand CCW against the right hand that is trying to keep its CW winding is what produces the arched or bowed left wrist and a clubface that is square to the clubhead arc. It's done with the grip pressures Hogan detailed in 5L.




    Will check it out.
  • ricklinensricklinens Members Posts: 400
    edited Jul 31, 2017 #16
    Moving the club without moving it.
    The less you put in, the more you take out.
  • David CDavid C Members Posts: 847 ✭✭
    edited Aug 1, 2017 #17
    I'm not sure whether I agree that picture is pre-secret. He won the PGA and 13 tournaments in 1946. In September 1947 he won the double tournament he said proved his modification. In comparison he seems to have had a less successful year. He wins two majors in 1948 and more tournaments. Power Golf was published in 1948, so would be post-secret, unless of course the pictures for it were taken in early 1947. Certainly he has a weaker grip than the one in PG later on. I once read the pictures pre date and publication post dates, but can't find that again and don't remember whomever wrote it providing any evidence for that.
  • moehoganmoehogan Members Posts: 1,026 ✭✭
    edited Aug 1, 2017 #18
    David C wrote:


    I'm not sure whether I agree that picture is pre-secret. He won the PGA and 13 tournaments in 1946. In September 1947 he won the double tournament he said proved his modification. In comparison he seems to have had a less successful year. He wins two majors in 1948 and more tournaments. Power Golf was published in 1948, so would be post-secret, unless of course the pictures for it were taken in early 1947. Certainly he has a weaker grip than the one in PG later on. I once read the pictures pre date and publication post dates, but can't find that again and don't remember whomever wrote it providing any evidence for that.




    I am sure it is pre-secret, David. The pic is from the Power Golf shoot in spring of 1947 at Augusta in preparation for publication. No digital capabilities back then so publishing was a much slower process. Power Golf, while having a 1948 copyright date, actually went on sale in December of 1947 to catch the Christmas selling season.



    Although it has been reported erroneously at times as 1946, the "Secret" was actually discovered in the summer of '47 after he returned from the PGA Championship, only making it to the round of 64 ... still match play then. He had won that tourney the year before (his first major) and came home determined to find the cure for the hook that reared its head especially when the pressure was on. Hogan then proceeded to battle test it at George May's tournament in Chicago later that summer in '47, which he won thus validating his discovery.



    All of this can be validated with a little research!
  • David CDavid C Members Posts: 847 ✭✭
    That was the only thing I couldn't find info on, when published and pictures taken.
  • AJ JosephAJ Joseph Members Posts: 110
    He said what his secret was in the magazine article
  • TexsportTexsport Members Posts: 2,335 ✭✭
    edited Apr 12, 2018 #21
    I've long believed that most of Hogan's secret was his clubs, grip, aiming direction, and improved swing sequencing.



    Hogan always attacked the ball from way inside. The right elbow proximity to the right hip on the downswing guaranteed it.



    Early in his career his conventional clubs and stronger grip caused hooking problems.



    I don't think he changed his swing much - except changes in response to club adjustments he made.



    Hogan's interest in the baseball swing and his friendship with baseball players Sam Byrd and Ted Williams is well documented. I believe that Hogan must have known that great baseball hitters used a hands leading swing to prevent flipping the head of the bat ahead thru the hitting zone - an action which causes weak pulled hits. Hogan's hooking problems would relate directly to this. He would have likely studied ways to prevent this rolling over of the hands thru impact. His weak grip would help prevent that roll over. The coat hanger under the grip guaranteed a weak grip + prevented the club from turning in his hands at the downswing transition - a common problem for some hookers of the ball.



    More than a swing change, I sense that the new secret instead was first, open faced clubs + a weak grip while holding the faces open beginning at address. As a side benefit, his turned in right foot and weak grip both acted to shorten his swing. After his accident, his swing was further restricted, but he stated that he struck the ball the best of his life before the accident.



    A powerful, strategically connected downswing with clubs set way open, that he couldn't hook were the start, but, such wide open faces would have started the ball way right, so he aimed left, with the ball foreward in his stance and swung/turned way left thru impact to start the ball left of final target with the intention of fading the ball slightly.The open stance also prevented Hogan from "turning the corner" too early, which would cause him to flip/turn the club over too soon - producing a hook.I think that he connected his right elbow/arm to his right hip/leg on the downswing to prevent premature hip turn that would cause the club to flip closed - especially on longer club swings.



    Hogan had rather long arms for his height, so a circular swing around to the left with long arms likely led to some turf/heel strikes causing hooks. Bending his clubs very flat cured that. His driver also had very low bulge in the face - a feature he eliminated, and didn't need, because of his precise swing.



    Further evidence is Hogan's statements that when it tried to hit it harder, the ball went straighter - likely because it closed the face more when he swung harder.



    Hogan knew Trackman data before Trackman was invented!



    Texsport
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Mizuno GT180 10.5*/Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 5 X
    Tour Edge Exotics CB F2 PRO 15.5* Limited/Speeder 757 EVO 7.1X (Gene Sauers club)
    Titleist 915 18*/Fubuki K 80X
    Titleist 913 Hybrid 21*/Tour Blue 105X (Matt Jones' club) (OR) TM Burner 4-iron/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
    Wilson Staff V4 5 and 6/Aerotech Fibersteel 110 S
    MacGregor PRO M 7-PM/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
    Edel 50*/KBS 610 S
    Scratch JMO Grind Don White 56*/DG X-100
    Cobra Trusty Rusty Tour 64*/DG S-200
    The Cure CX2 putter
  • playaplaya Members Posts: 8,714 ✭✭
    edited Dec 24, 2017 #22
    Switter wrote:


    Personally I dont think its any secret! The more efficient my swing becomes, the more I use both right & left arm tricepts. This is recognizable by the soreness that developes in the region.



    IMO Hogans great secret was that there is no secret! His success was the result of natural athletic talent, thousands of hours of practice, physical training, proper nutrition, & strong mental agility & ability to endure & win.



    Ben Hogan is proof that Ali lied about being the "greatest!"


    I tend to agree with this theory. In an sport there is a simple formula.

    Talent + repetition + focus = proficiency.



    And if those three are at an extremely high level, like Hogan, you have greatness. There are no shortcuts to greatnoess in any sport. Ali has often said that he got his confidence from training hard, knowing that he was training harder than his opponent. Talent and great hand eye coordination is a baseline for any elite athlete in any sport, but without dedication to practice and focus greatness will not be achieved.

    It's no. coincidence that every dominant golfer before and after Hogan also just happened to have reputations for being the hardest workers with single minded focus. With the possible exception of Hagen going by Richard's anecdotes haha.
  • Lime SharkLime Shark Members Posts: 311
    moehogan wrote:


    Although it has been reported erroneously at times as 1946, the "Secret" was actually discovered in the summer of '47 after he returned from the PGA Championship, only making it to the round of 64 ... still match play then. He had won that tourney the year before (his first major) and came home determined to find the cure for the hook that reared its head especially when the pressure was on. Hogan then proceeded to battle test it at George May's tournament in Chicago later that summer in '47, which he won thus validating his discovery.




    Hogan's secret (whatever it was) was an anit-hooking move.



    Most golfers today don't have a hooking problem, they have a slicing problem, so Hogan's secret wouldn't do them any good even if they did discover it.



    A more interesting question is this: why did old school golfers (such as Hogan) have problems with hooking the ball, while modern golfers have problems slicing he ball.



    What has changed about the golf swing/equipment/instruction that has caused this change?
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,014 ✭✭
    Here is the article, straight from the horses mouth. Scroll to page 61.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=ylYEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&rview=1&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,014 ✭✭
    Who here has read the article?

    Who has tried the secret?

    What is the secret for?

    It that a fault in your game?

    Did the secret work?

    Why are we looking for something that isn't there?

    The secret is right in front of us, it has been since 1955.

    Occam's Razor.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • eagle1997eagle1997 Members Posts: 18,049 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:


    Who here has read the article?

    Who has tried the secret?

    What is the secret for?

    It that a fault in your game?

    Did the secret work?

    Why are we looking for something that isn't there?

    The secret is right in front of us, it has been since 1955.

    Occam's Razor.




    fantastic!



    life+0.JPG
    Cobra F8+ 9.5°
    TEE XCG4 3w 15°
    Cally Steelhead XR 17°
    Cobra BioCell 22°
    Cobra One Length 5-PW
    Bstone J15 50°
    Bstone J15 52°
    Odyssey Black Milled #1
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,014 ✭✭
    So did anyone but Eagle read the actual article?...this thread sure died quickly....



    Triceps, it's allllllllllll triceps. SMH



    I am greatly offended no one answered my questions above, very disappointed.



    I was hoping for some lively debate.





    And btw, putting IS part of golf.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • powerfade66powerfade66 Members Posts: 449
    I read it years ago and have a nice copy. Can still pick them up pretty cheap. They're like a big newspaper in size compared to today's mags.

    I think it was part of it along with a few other things, like a hook tendency as you say. You can find those others in my book "Hooker. Can you keep a secret?"



    I used to think the cup and how it allowed him to hit it hard without hooking was about opening the face and that he then couldn't shut it in time. I've moved away from that, especially since realising I can go from wide open to shut almost instantly using wrist manipulation and no arm travel rather than forearm rotation where the entire arm triangle rotates over itself. What I think the cup does now in addition to opening the face is facilitate a much deeper wrist set. Experiment with it while you're reading this - flat left wrist hits an end point much sooner than having the cup and less angle in the right wrist. Notice how deep it is when you get an equal amount of wrinkles at the base of both the left and right thumbs. Hogan had a long backswing well into old age. While yes he had a long swing pre secret it was quite sloppy and with lots of leg action. From the deep wrist set he lays it off setting up maximum range of motion in the forearms and at the same time flattens out the cup somewhat. I think the beauty of it is that the deep wrist **** at the top followed by laying it off gets him so deep into the downswing before he has lost much of the left arm shaft angle that it's then nearly impossible to run out of leverage in the right side. His early swings have him extending the right arm early and then folding into more of a fake finish where later in his career the extension comes much later and so there is acceleration deep into the follow through and then a more abrupt finish because there wasn't the need for the big artificial wrap around follow through after using everything up much earlier.



    Just my thoughts...
  • oscar@wrx[email protected] Members Posts: 504
    dlygrisse wrote:


    So did anyone but Eagle read the actual article?...this thread sure died quickly....



    Triceps, it's allllllllllll triceps. SMH



    I am greatly offended no one answered my questions above, very disappointed.



    I was hoping for some lively debate.





    And btw, putting IS part of golf.


    Hogan said it’s the cup, and it is. But Hogan also mentioned in there that you have to have a draw swing. So the cup won’t work (as Hogan intended) if you don’t have a draw swing—inside out downswing.



    I think his draw swing is very inside out (layoff, right elbow still bent when his hands are hip height in downswing, club still cocked).



    Most people would indeed draw or hook with this
    "Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."
  • oscar@wrx[email protected] Members Posts: 504
    Then the 3 right hands, you would always hook it
    "Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."
  • HarleyweedwhacksHarleyweedwhacks Members Posts: 152
    There's no secret to his swing. He hit a fade, and he practiced like ****. Byron Nelson was a better striker than Hogan, and so was Murray Norman, and maybe George Knudson.



    I personally feel that Hogan's course management was the key to his success. When other people would gun at the flag, he'd aim safely to allow for better shot selection. He wasn't just a great ball striker, but an excellent thinker, and he played golf courses the way they were designed.



    I'm a self-taught 8 handicap, and I don't know course management. If I knew it, I'd probably be scratch or better, because I can strike the ball well enough to play to scratch, and my short game is superior to most (My putting, however, sucks, I have the yips). So if I could learn the course management of a Hogan or a Woods, or even a Murray Norman (He always said good thinking good golf, this is what he meant. Moe's course management was different than most), I'd easily make it to scratch or better.



    Hogan played the course, he didn't just work on his swing. In fact he said practice rounds were the best type of practice, because it allowed you to see the course in advance before the tournament started. Hogan really didn't care much about his swing, he cared more about playing golf correctly.



    I've seen terrible swings play par golf or better. I once witnessed an elderly man shoot 70 (2 under) on a breezy day in the cold, and his swing was really seriously ugly. It had a loop to it, and he rushed his downswing and faded the ball. Thing is he played for the fade, and had an excellent short game and putting. Most of all, he had good course management. I never saw him hit a shot he didn't think he could play, and he always seemed to leave himself away from the short side of the hole when he missed. He placed his shots so well, that's mainly why he plays to a +2 handicap and finds himself beating these young kids consistently who think they're going to be on tour someday. Really shocked me back into reality when I realized that if this guy can beat these kids who think they're going to turn professional, and he's well past his prime, with a hideous golf swing, then the swing doesn't matter. It's placement, and management.
    "I have one brief comment today, and there is no chance, we're all human beings here, and there's no chance humanly possible that Tiger woods isn't hurting his back with a swing like that...no way."--Colin Montgomerie
«1

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file