America's 20 toughest golf courses

Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,079 ✭✭
I thought this Golf Digest list was interesting, but maybe a little flawed. Here are the courses I have played on their list;



1. The Ocean Course (agree it should be #1)



4. Spyglass Hill



7. TPC Sawgrass



8. PGA West (Stadium)



10. Pinehurst #2



13. Olympic Club (Lake)



14. Pebble Beach



17. Torrey Pines (South)



19. Desert Mtn. Club (Renegade)



I agree with all of these except Pebble.



http://www.golfdiges...ial_facebook#21
«1

Comments

  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,013 ✭✭
    This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.



    Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • vallygolfvallygolf Posts: 395 ✭✭
    Pebble only makes the list because the typical amateur miss will be to the right. Holes 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, are all double bogey holes if you miss it right, as recovery shots are difficult to such small greens. Course is wide open on the left, as this is my miss pebble would not crack the top 50 most difficult courses I have played. Pinehurst is quite open as a lie in the waste areas will be playable 90% of the time. For amateurs the green complexes are what resist scoring, IMO that alone puts it just about right on the list. For me spyglass plays more difficult than The Ocean Course.
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 8,963 ✭✭
    LOLOLOL!!!

    There is no way, simply no way, that Pacific Dunes is one of "America's 20 Toughest". Think it would struggle to make the 20 toughest in the Pacific Northwest.

    Pebble has tiny greens, and some really strong holes, but I don't think too many walk off 18 thinking it was tough, per say.



    Agree with DG - they just bunged together a list of randoms for a click bait slideshow: duly baited.
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,013 ✭✭
    I have played Pebble, Pinehurst and Spyglass. Granted I did not play from the tips, which I know changes things....but these are NOT the toughest courses I have played. Maybe the 3 coolest and most memorable, but not the toughest.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,519 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:


    This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.



    Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"




    I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,615 ✭✭
    I've only played 3



    Bethpage

    Sawgrass

    Torrey South



    Bethpage was a full ditch pig, scary tough
    Ping G400 LST 11* Mitsu TI BB Matte 53x
    Callaway GBB 3w 14* Mitsu Blueboard 63x
    Ping G400 5w 17* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Callaway V-series Hwood Fuji TS 8.2s
    Callaway Apex 4h 23* Fujikura 904HBs
    Ping Rapture 5-PW Aldila NV MLTi Pro105x
    Ping iWedge 50* Aldila NV 105x
    Ping Glide SS 53* & ES 59* Wrx SF125s
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • vallygolfvallygolf Posts: 395 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.



    Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"




    I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.




    I think this is correct ^^



    Yet another reason these rankings are trivial at best.
  • Kenny Lee PuckettKenny Lee Puckett Members Posts: 3,460 ✭✭
    if you came from the area you'd replace Pebble with Fort Ord Bayonet.
    [font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif]PING G LST: Ping Tour 80
    PING Anser 4wd: Accra S380 RT
    PXG 0317: Fujikura Rombax 8D07HB
    PING i500 4 iron: D.G. 120
    PING S55 5-PW: D.G. Tour Issue
    PING Glide 2.0 50/54/58: D.G. Tour Issue
    PING Darby F Ti Pixel: SS 2.0 Mid
    PING: Sensor Glove, Ping 703 Cord grips
    PING: Hoofer Bag
    TaylorMade: TP5 & TP5x ball

    WITB photos: [/font]
    http://www.golfwrx.c...uckett-witb-19/
  • SilverBulletsSilverBullets BMW Members Posts: 5,878 ✭✭
    Im not even sure Pacific Dunes is the toughest course on the Bandon property. Certainly not a top 20 toughest in the country.



    To me, this list is the toughest 20 of the top 50 greatest courses in the country lol. And even with that, it's still not accurate.
    Taylormade M6 10.5* - HZRDUS Smoke Black 6.5
    Taylormade '16 M2 15*
    Titleist 816h 21*
    Callaway Apex 4i thru PW - Nippon Modus 125 Tour X
    Vokey SM6 50*, 54*, 58*
    Scotty Cameron Circa 62 No. 2 - Scotty Custom Shop
  • rblmp32rblmp32 Lefty Boomers Posts: 4,245
    Only played one of these, the Ocean Course, many times. I will comment that when the wind blows (which is 95% of the time) it's a hard golf course, especially from the tips (only tees I've played). But we played it one morning when the wind laid down and it was very easy. Fairways are wide.
  • Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.



    PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.



    Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,079 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:


    This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.



    Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"




    I played Sawgrass twice and it kicked my butt both times. I would vote to keep it on the list.
  • TUGolfer06TUGolfer06 Members Posts: 265 ✭✭


    Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.



    PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.



    Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.




    I've had the chance to play Pound Ridge a few times but politely turn it down. Paying $225 to be tortured by some tricked up Dye course in the NYC suburbs does not seem appealing to me. I've yet to hear anyone give the course a ringing endorsement.
    Home Courses
    - Country Club of Scranton
    - Seven Oaks GC at Colgate University
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 8,963 ✭✭
    TUGolfer06 wrote:



    Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.



    PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.



    Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.




    I've had the chance to play Pound Ridge a few times but politely turn it down. Paying $225 to be tortured by some tricked up Dye course in the NYC suburbs does not seem appealing to me. I've yet to hear anyone give the course a ringing endorsement.




    So you've told Pound Ridge to go pound sand image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,013 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.



    Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"




    I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.
    I think that is correct. Very lazy reporting in my opinion.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,519 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.



    Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"




    I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.
    I think that is correct. Very lazy reporting in my opinion.




    Eh. They're just recutting data that they already have. It's a pretty big dataset...up next, America's 20 Best Conditioned Golf Courses!
  • rblmp32rblmp32 Lefty Boomers Posts: 4,245


    Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.



    PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.



    Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.




    FYI, love your shirts. I own 3 currently. The ladies like the feel (I always have them feel the shirt and then tell them about the recycled water bottles...hehe works)
  • italianstallionitalianstallion Bethpage Black - 8th hole Junior Mod Squad Posts: 3,016 ✭✭
    Torrey Pines and Pebble don't belong on this list. Pebble is only hard for the first timer who focuses more on the views than on the golf (spoken from experience). Torrey is hard when they grow the rough and pinch the fairways...but you can make the easier course you can think of that tough when you do that. As a test of golf I was underwhelmed by Torrey (but loved the views).



    While it doesn't seem to be the popular opinio, I will agree with them when they place TPC Sawgrass on this list...it's a mental test and a tough design...hardest flat course you'll ever play.



    Oakmont and Bethpage belong on that list, so no argument from me there.



    And that's all I've got.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,079 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.



    Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"




    I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.




    So, why is that a problem.
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,610 ✭✭
    I've played the Ocean Course and it's really about the wind which can make it nearly impossible. Thankfully, they have a crew that gets a good forecast for how the wind is blowing and can make the course reasonable. But if they wanted to, they can make it impossible.



    Bethpage is really hard if the rough is up. Just some extremely difficult shots and if the rough is high, fuhgetabouit.



    I have yet to play Sawgrass, but I have been on there many times. 1-3 aren't that difficult. #4 is more tricky, but if you hit a good tee shot you're typically going to come away with at least a par, if not a birdie. #5 is very hard, #6 is pretty easy. #7 and #8 are very hard. #10-12 are not that hard. 13 is difficult to make par, but you really shouldn't be coming away with a double. 14 is extremely hard. 15 is above average in difficulty. 18 is very hard, but 16 and 17 are not that difficult. I just don't see Sawgrass anywhere near in the vicinity of difficulty as Kiawah or Bethpage.













    RH
  • krtgolfingkrtgolfing Members Posts: 1,042 ✭✭
    RichieHunt wrote:


    I've played the Ocean Course and it's really about the wind which can make it nearly impossible. Thankfully, they have a crew that gets a good forecast for how the wind is blowing and can make the course reasonable. But if they wanted to, they can make it impossible.



    Bethpage is really hard if the rough is up. Just some extremely difficult shots and if the rough is high, fuhgetabouit.



    I have yet to play Sawgrass, but I have been on there many times. 1-3 aren't that difficult. #4 is more tricky, but if you hit a good tee shot you're typically going to come away with at least a par, if not a birdie. #5 is very hard, #6 is pretty easy. #7 and #8 are very hard. #10-12 are not that hard. 13 is difficult to make par, but you really shouldn't be coming away with a double. 14 is extremely hard. 15 is above average in difficulty. 18 is very hard, but 16 and 17 are not that difficult. I just don't see Sawgrass anywhere near in the vicinity of difficulty as Kiawah or Bethpage.













    RH




    Course is harder than it looks. Start missing the ball around the green and good luck.
    Callaway Rogue Sub Zero Driver
    Taylor Made M2 3 Wood
    Taylor Made M2 3 Hybrid
    Taylor Made PSI 4 Iron - Approach Wedge
    Titleist Vokey SM5 54* & 60*
    Odyssey Works Red #1W S
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,519 ✭✭

    raynorfan1 wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    This is a really strange list for the 20 toughest. Pebble? Pinehurst? Sawgrass? Good courses? yes. 20 toughest, no.



    Maybe the title should be the "20 toughest the Golf Digest Staff had access to on a short notice list"




    I'm pretty sure they just use the highest ranked courses in the "resistance to scoring" category in their regular rankings.




    So, why is that a problem.




    I don't think it is. Just helpful to understand the methodology. For "resistance to scoring" courses are rated on difficulty for a scratch golfer from the Championship tees. It would be interesting to compare USGA course ratings for the same tees, which is probably a more objective methodology.
  • rblmp32rblmp32 Lefty Boomers Posts: 4,245
    raynorfan1 wrote:


    I don't think it is. Just helpful to understand the methodology. For "resistance to scoring" courses are rated on difficulty for a scratch golfer from the Championship tees. It would be interesting to compare USGA course ratings for the same tees, which is probably a more objective methodology.




    Believe these are all par 72



    Ocean Course is 79.2 from the tips

    Sawgrass is 76.4

    Bethpage is 78.1

    Pebble is 74.7

    Pound Ridge is 76

    Pacific Dunes 73 (Par 71)





    A couple of those are a joke. 73 for a par 71 is on the list of most difficult list? lol
  • Bramsuer10Bramsuer10 Members Posts: 89
    I played Torrey South, and I actually thought it was pretty easy. I played from as far back as they'd let me, played average, was my first time seeing it, and shot 76. There are many courses I play on the regular around VA and have yet to shoot better than a 76, lol.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,079 ✭✭
    RichieHunt wrote:


    I've played the Ocean Course and it's really about the wind which can make it nearly impossible. Thankfully, they have a crew that gets a good forecast for how the wind is blowing and can make the course reasonable. But if they wanted to, they can make it impossible.



    Bethpage is really hard if the rough is up. Just some extremely difficult shots and if the rough is high, fuhgetabouit.



    I have yet to play Sawgrass, but I have been on there many times. 1-3 aren't that difficult. #4 is more tricky, but if you hit a good tee shot you're typically going to come away with at least a par, if not a birdie. #5 is very hard, #6 is pretty easy. #7 and #8 are very hard. #10-12 are not that hard. 13 is difficult to make par, but you really shouldn't be coming away with a double. 14 is extremely hard. 15 is above average in difficulty. 18 is very hard, but 16 and 17 are not that difficult. I just don't see Sawgrass anywhere near in the vicinity of difficulty as Kiawah or Bethpage.



    RH




    The slope at Sawgrass is 155.....not too shabby. What got me when I played it was the thick rough, especially around the greens since the greens were as hard as concrete. So hitting a three yard shot out of thick rough and stopping it on the hard greens was a challenge.



    FYI, Bethpage slope is 148 and the Ocean Course is 153.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,079 ✭✭
    rblmp32 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:


    I don't think it is. Just helpful to understand the methodology. For "resistance to scoring" courses are rated on difficulty for a scratch golfer from the Championship tees. It would be interesting to compare USGA course ratings for the same tees, which is probably a more objective methodology.




    Believe these are all par 72



    Ocean Course is 79.2 from the tips

    Sawgrass is 76.4

    Bethpage is 78.1

    Pebble is 74.7

    Pound Ridge is 76

    Pacific Dunes 73 (Par 71)





    A couple of those are a joke. 73 for a par 71 is on the list of most difficult list? lol




    Course rating reflects the difficulty for a scratch golfer. So you should also look at slope.



    Sawgrass: 155

    Ocean Course: 153

    Bethpage: 148

    Pebble: 145



    BTW, the US Open rating for Pebble is 75.5
  • rblmp32rblmp32 Lefty Boomers Posts: 4,245

    rblmp32 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:


    I don't think it is. Just helpful to understand the methodology. For "resistance to scoring" courses are rated on difficulty for a scratch golfer from the Championship tees. It would be interesting to compare USGA course ratings for the same tees, which is probably a more objective methodology.




    Believe these are all par 72



    Ocean Course is 79.2 from the tips

    Sawgrass is 76.4

    Bethpage is 78.1

    Pebble is 74.7

    Pound Ridge is 76

    Pacific Dunes 73 (Par 71)





    A couple of those are a joke. 73 for a par 71 is on the list of most difficult list? lol




    Course rating reflects the difficulty for a scratch golfer. So you should also look at slope.



    Sawgrass: 155

    Ocean Course: 153

    Bethpage: 148

    Pebble: 145



    BTW, the US Open rating for Pebble is 75.5




    No I shouldn't. I'm a 2 handicap. The course rating is much more accurate than slope for me. And in regard to Pebble's rating, that's fine, but do you think the Ocean Course was rated when they had the PGA Championship there in 2011? Or Bethpage when the Open has been there? Nope. So you can't compare Pebble's rating for the Open vs the other venues which are rated when they are setup normally.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,079 ✭✭
    rblmp32 wrote:




    No I shouldn't. I'm a 2 handicap. The course rating is much more accurate than slope for me.




    OK, but not for 90% of the guys on this board. Both numbers are quite useful.
  • SpicoliSpicoli Posts: 327 ✭✭
    I thought the RTJ trail courses were all a true test, then I watched pros post double digits unders at last year's barbasol at Grand National...
  • mpocompoco BostonMembers Posts: 15 ✭✭
    TCC (Brookline) belongs on this list. Thick long rough and fescue on nearly every hole in addition to the smallest greens make scoring here very tough.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.