Phil wins - are caddies meaningless

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  • cwglumcwglum Members  1588WRX Points: 163Posts: 1,588 Platinum Tees
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    Outside of the 'job description' duties of the caddie within the group, not standing here or there, who holds the flag if your player is in first, bunkers, etc. Learning the yardages and conditions just might be easier than knowing when or when not to say something to a player. Learning the right message, right delivery ... vs. right message, wrong delivery so that the player will understand what you're trying to tell them. That's the mental part, interaction with player, that over the course of time is likely way more important than the bag skills. <br />
    <br />
    Phil's brother is a high level player, played in a US Open qualifier held in my town a few years back. Div.1 college coach as well, so he's probably not the guy off the street comparison that others on tour have. <br />
    <br />
    How about Patrick Reed having his wife caddie for him, and then her brother after she had kids?
    Posted:
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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    caddies meaningless? yea.... thats in the running for dumbest thing ever said.... on same lines as saying " one shoe two shoes..it doesnt matter"... wow
    Posted:
  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members  3714WRX Points: 269Posts: 3,714 Titanium Tees
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    Think it would help most to have another set of eyes, on the greens especially. Also to have someone to talk about what kind of wind and club considerations on shot. Not saying their necessary for everybody.
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  • PowderedToastManPowderedToastMan Members  4294WRX Points: 1,511Posts: 4,294 Titanium Tees
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    bobcat wrote:
    <br />
    I suppose It all depends on just who your 'Caddy' is... <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' /><br />
    <br />
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    Probably more fitting for her to have the nickname Bones than Bones.
    Posted:
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  • krtgolfingkrtgolfing Members  1098WRX Points: 92Handicap: 9.3Posts: 1,098 Platinum Tees
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    A caddie can only help so much. It all comes down to putting a good swing on the back on the ball.
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  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers  8162WRX Points: 1,383Handicap: +1.5 (1194646)Posts: 8,162 Titanium Tees
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    a caddie who knows your game, knows your personality, knows the conditions, knows the course...can be priceless. if they don't help you 99% of the time, that ONE time they do, it could help you win the tournament. that goes for every decision that week. him telling you not to go for the green in two on a thursday, giving you a better or confirming a read on saturday...it goes a long way.<br />
    <br />
    those who say a good caddie doesn't mean anything haven't had a great caddie before - just some guy to carry their clubs.
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  • marmooskapaulmarmooskapaul Members  1455WRX Points: 230Posts: 1,455 Platinum Tees
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    I'm not knocking caddies...but do high school players have them?? College players have them?? Really, caddies don't come into play unless you're a pro..or going to a destination golf course that staffs them.<br />
    <br />
    97% to 99% of people playing golf { at least in the US} have never used or even seen a caddie on the golf course.
    Posted:
  • BLLDWG23BLLDWG23 Members  490WRX Points: 0Handicap: 7Posts: 490
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    Depends on the player. Some need them more some less. Check out the Secret Tour Pro article in Golf Digest this month. I think it gives a decent perspective on it.
    Posted:
  • dbleagdbleag Members  2933WRX Points: 181Posts: 2,933 Titanium Tees
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    BLLDWG23 wrote:
    <br />
    Depends on the player. Some need them more some less. Check out the Secret Tour Pro article in Golf Digest this month. I think it gives a decent perspective on it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    +1<br />
    <br />
    Look at Lydia Ko vs. Michelle Wie.<br />
    <br />
    Lydia Ko switched caddies & putters pretty often - with little variance in her success (until this year).<br />
    <br />
    Michelle Wie switched caddies & putters pretty often - with little variance in her (lack) of success.<br />
    <br />
    Some players rely on their caddies too much. Some caddies try to control their players too much. (i.e. Rich Beem's caddie in "Bud, Sweat & Tees").
    Posted:
  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War Members  3640WRX Points: 614Posts: 3,640 Titanium Tees
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    after his scores this weekend... I guess Bones being the gentleman that he is..is not chuckling at all.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    Man_O_War wrote:
    <br />
    after his scores this weekend... I am guess Bones being the gentleman that he is..is not chuckling at all.<br />
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    came here to post similar.... i think we can all see how valuable Bones is .. yes?
    Posted:
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  • tsecortsecor Loading........ Members  4779WRX Points: 531Posts: 4,779 Titanium Tees
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    Right now PJ Fitzgerald is worth whatever $ Rory makes this week.
    Posted:
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    tsecor wrote:
    <br />
    Right now PJ Fitzgerald is worth whatever $ Rory makes this week.<br />
    <br />
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    <br />
    amenn to that as well.. he seems to have had enough strength to pull Rorys huge head from his hind quarters...
    Posted:
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 IowaClubWRX  21483WRX Points: 5,449Posts: 21,483 ClubWRX
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    Bones playing the weekend!
    Posted:
  • Mgj48Mgj48 Members  41WRX Points: 20Handicap: 11.8Posts: 41 Bunkers
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    I think Phils time is past. Firing his coach and caddie will not help his errant drivers and long term ability to miss 3-4' putts. He is no longer able to overcome his misses with brilliant iron and wedge play. My opinion , might only be worth what it cost you.
    Posted:
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  • Mgj48Mgj48 Members  41WRX Points: 20Handicap: 11.8Posts: 41 Bunkers
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    <br />
    I'm not knocking caddies...but do high school players have them?? College players have them?? Really, caddies don't come into play unless you're a pro..or going to a destination golf course that staffs them.<br />
    <br />
    97% to 99% of people playing golf { at least in the US} have never used or even seen a caddie on the golf course.<br />
    <br />
    Correct you are . However 97-99% of us aren't playing a game where a single stroke can make or lose you hundreds of thousands of $. I can see a caddie helping with a couple strokes a round or tournament.
    Posted:
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  • PGAroxPGArox Members  10288WRX Points: 3Posts: 10,288 Bunkers
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    Mgj48 wrote:
    <br />
    I think Phils time is past. Firing his coach and caddie will not help his errant drivers and long term ability to miss 3-4' putts. He is no longer able to overcome his misses with brilliant iron and wedge play. My opinion , might only be worth what it cost you.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Not only is Phil just one year off one of the greatest performances ever in a major, but he has actually had a pretty steady season to date.<br />
    <br />
    Phil's time as one of the game's top 10 players is certainly gone, but he still has the chops to win again, and I believe he will. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:
  • marmooskapaulmarmooskapaul Members  1455WRX Points: 230Posts: 1,455 Platinum Tees
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    Mgj48 wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    I'm not knocking caddies...but do high school players have them?? College players have them?? Really, caddies don't come into play unless you're a pro..or going to a destination golf course that staffs them.<br />
    <br />
    97% to 99% of people playing golf { at least in the US} have never used or even seen a caddie on the golf course.<br />
    <br />
    Correct you are . However 97-99% of us aren't playing a game where a single stroke can make or lose you hundreds of thousands of $. I can see a caddie helping with a couple strokes a round or tournament.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I think caddies absolutely help. That's what ..kind of bothers me about it. I can't even ask anybody I'm playing with what club they hit..etc..but a caddie can give all kinds of info..what he saw my opponent hit..how the greens break..what he/she thinks the wind is doing..and just calm me down..lol.I think they might help too much..and they carry the dang bag too..ok I usually take a cart.
    Posted:
  • SurfDufferSurfDuffer Members  3024WRX Points: 182Posts: 3,024 Titanium Tees
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    Phil hasn't won squat since 2013. It isn't the caddie.
    Posted:
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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 IowaClubWRX  21483WRX Points: 5,449Posts: 21,483 ClubWRX
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    I'm like Singh, wish I had a caddie to read greens for me more often than not.
    Posted:
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers  13798WRX Points: 2,632Handicap: 0.9 >< 3.8Posts: 13,798 Titanium Tees
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    Bones having the last laugh .. though RB probably wasn't a good fit for PM
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  • tbowles411tbowles411 ClubWRX  25662WRX Points: 829Handicap: GolfPosts: 25,662 Titanium Tees
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    I guess as far as Michael Greller is concerned, a caddie is absolutely not meaningless.
    Posted:
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  • cinnepacinnepa Members  2208WRX Points: 116Posts: 2,208 Platinum Tees
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    i think it'd be cool to give them all a push cart and tell them to have at it - caddy-less. now that would be interesting.
    Posted:
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  • BLLDWG23BLLDWG23 Members  490WRX Points: 0Handicap: 7Posts: 490
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    tbowles411 wrote:
    <br />
    I guess as far as Michael Greller is concerned, a caddie is absolutely not meaningless.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    %100 percent agree. Spieth needs someone like Grellar. DJ would probably do about the same with whoever on the bag. (not a knock on his brother) Just different mindsets. I know college and H.S kids were mentioned not having caddies, and it's true but if you see them a lot of times they may have a team mate or asst coach out there with them, especially in your better programs and tourney's.
    Posted:
  • Jordan SpeethJordan Speeth ClubWRX  1091WRX Points: 88Posts: 1,091 ClubWRX
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    herdman wrote:
    <br />
    if caddies were not important they would just get some 14 year old kid to carry the bag. For free.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Actually, pre-1990s, that's the way it was. Many pros preferred having kids on their bags. I was one of those caddies at that age and I never failed to pick up a bag. I was actually 16 and caddied on both the PGA and LPGA Tour in 70/71 and I looped for some notable players (Butch Harmon, Kathy Cornelius, Gay Brewer). They liked the kids for several reasons. At that time, most of the pro caddies were alcoholics and gamblers. They'd show up for work hung over at best and usually babbled nonsensically through most of the round and usually annoyed the players more than anything. They were mostly lazy and didn't do anything until the 15th hole when they started working for a better tip. When they didn't get the tip they thought they deserved, there were often uncomfortable confrontations over it. With the young kids, there was none of this drama and they didn't feel that they had to tip the kids much, if anything and, believe me, everybody but the top ten guys were on a budget. They didn't play for that much money then and unless they finished T10 or better, they barely made their expenses. The kids had more energy and were more respectful of the players' work since most of us were players ourselves and our normal jobs at home were as caddies at good clubs where good work was required. I worked with professional caddies at home and learned from the best of them. I took the good, and left the bad and was pretty good at it. I would, though, get pretty nervous when we played with someone...like Palmer, which we did a couple of times. There were times when I was the only kid out there though. I went to a private school that had a unique program that let us out of school from late November through February and that's when the Tour was passing through California in those days...perfect. Things were much less precise in those days and most of the guys played much more by instinct and feel. They had the yardages, sort of, but it was nothing like it is now outside of the very top players. It's easy to see why a few guys like Jack or Arnie dominated the way they did because there were only a handful of guys who were really good and the rest were just journeymen, making a living. They were the good players who didn't always have the patience to work as a club pro. They were the kind who needed a little more excitement in life and liked the lifestyle. It was pretty cool, certainly an experience I'll never forget.
    Posted:
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    cinnepa wrote:
    <br />
    i think it'd be cool to give them all a push cart and tell them to have at it - caddy-less. now that would be interesting.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Here come 7hr rounds
    Posted:
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  • cinnepacinnepa Members  2208WRX Points: 116Posts: 2,208 Platinum Tees
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    Nah...keep the shot clock on them. I bet it's been so long for many of them to figure things out for themselves..that more than a few would be lost out there. Pushcart+notes+rangefinder...go gettum.<br />
    <br />
    Posted:
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    tbowles411 wrote:
    <br />
    I guess as far as Michael Greller is concerned, a caddie is absolutely not meaningless.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Totally agree. I want to hire him to be my best friend.
    Posted:
  • Jordan SpeethJordan Speeth ClubWRX  1091WRX Points: 88Posts: 1,091 ClubWRX
    Joined:  edited Jul 29, 2017 #60
    <br />
    herdman wrote:
    <br />
    if caddies were not important they would just get some 14 year old kid to carry the bag. For free.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Actually, pre-1990s, that's the way it was. Many pros preferred having kids on their bags. I was one of those caddies at that age and I never failed to pick up a bag. I was actually 16 and caddied on both the PGA and LPGA Tour in 70/71 and I looped for some notable players (Butch Harmon, Kathy Cornelius, Gay Brewer). They liked the kids for several reasons. At that time, most of the pro caddies were alcoholics and gamblers. They'd show up for work hung over at best and usually babbled nonsensically through most of the round and usually annoyed the players more than anything. They were mostly lazy and didn't do anything until the 15th hole when they started working for a better tip. When they didn't get the tip they thought they deserved, there were often uncomfortable confrontations over it. With the young kids, there was none of this drama and they didn't feel that they had to tip the kids much, if anything and, believe me, everybody but the top ten guys were on a budget. They didn't play for that much money then and unless they finished T10 or better, they barely made their expenses. The kids had more energy and were more respectful of the players' work since most of us were players ourselves and our normal jobs at home were as caddies at good clubs where good work was required. I worked with professional caddies at home and learned from the best of them. I took the good, and left the bad and was pretty good at it. I would, though, get pretty nervous when we played with someone...like Palmer, which we did a couple of times. There were times when I was the only kid out there though. I went to a private school that had a unique program that let us out of school from late November through February and that's when the Tour was passing through California in those days...perfect. Things were much less precise in those days and most of the guys played much more by instinct and feel. They had the yardages, sort of, but it was nothing like it is now outside of the very top players. It's easy to see why a few guys like Jack or Arnie dominated the way they did because there were only a handful of guys who were really good and the rest were just journeymen, making a living. They were the good players who didn't always have the patience to work as a club pro. They were the kind who needed a little more excitement in life and liked the lifestyle. It was pretty cool, certainly an experience I'll never forget.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Writing this post got me reminiscing and I went back to look at Butch Harmon's results in 1971. He made five cuts, which was pretty darned good for a rabbit (Monday qualifier), when most of them didn't make five events, much less cuts, and he earned $1229. That's right....$1229 for the entire year. In other words, if you finished mid-field after making the cut, you might make $250..for a week's work. Talk about a tough way to make a living. These guys sure weren't going to cough up those hard earned bucks to some bum for carrying their bag. If the Tour didn't make them hire caddies, because the were "touring pros", you can bet that half of them would've been packing their own clubs. I don't care if it was 45 years ago, those guys were playing for nuthin'. You can only imagine what the women were playing for. They were just div'ing up their entry fees and half of the pro-am money.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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