What the Majors and the PGA Tour needs

We as viewers have been (for the most part) robbed of can't miss television. The one thing that could potentially bring the masses back to golf in the post-Tiger era are the famous Sunday showdowns for major championship glory. For the most part we haven't seen it for 20 years.

Jack vs Arnie (many times)

Jack vs Arnie vs Hogan

Jack vs Trevino

Jack vs Watson

Hogan vs Demaret

Hogan vs Snead

These were epic duels with players in their primes and in many cases these same two players faced each other for 1st and 2nd on multiple occasions.

Since then we have been promised Tiger vs Mickelson which never really happened and the current options of Spieth vs Rory vs DJ vs Day vs Fowler etc.

While we have seen Spieth vs DJ it was really DJ before DJ and Spieth vs Day which was the beginning and perhaps end of Day.

Can you imagine how amazing golf would be if we could get the showdowns of Old but with Today's players? A Sunday showdown with Rory, Spieth and DJ?

If we can get a run of great golf from these guys I believe the masses will come back to golf in the post-Tiger era. We just can't have 3 guys struggling to make the cut with every once in a while one of these guys winning.

With the exception of a handful of events you only have the top handful in the same tourney week in and week out. In the old days everyone played pretty much all the time to make a living, so you had more opportunities for "showdowns." Also with the amount of parity on the tour these showdowns become fewer between. I preface it by saying this: when Tiger was #1 how much better was he than #10, and the answer is miles. Now DJ #1 how much difference is there between him and #10 Fowler? In my opinion not much and that parity is throughout the ranks.

please don't speak for me..... I have not been robbed of anything.

the people who left after Tiger became irrelevant were obviously more fans of Tiger than of golf. So, no, a run of so-called 'great golf' won't bring those masses back because, let's face it, there has been a lot of great golf and they're not back.... or so you say they're not.

Tiger dominating and people watching Jack et al are two totally different scenarios.

Stenson v Lefty at The Open last year was probably some of the best golf I have seen on a Sunday. Spieth's epic journey in 2015 was pretty cool too.... maybe you robbed yourself of those by not watching..... or the many more that have been on display since Tiger went AWOL.

The fact that those 'masses' (you) need to have some sort of showdown week in and week out to get themselves back onboard says more about you and them than it does about who's playing. And that's ok.

Sure, some good showdowns are fun to watch but you would need a showdown week in and week out for years for these 'masses' to come back. Won't happen overnight.

Just need more Duf

You - we may just see such a showdown this week at the PGA. The big names are there and one in particular (JS) is set up to make some history. What JS and MK did at the Open coming down the stretch was not exactly a walk in the park, so there is / was another example of a showdown of sorts...........I know I was watching and rooting and it was a great finish.......Just saying....

Yeah the lack of genuine showdowns between the top dogs in golf is generally disappointing, but it's just the way the game is. Often the same players don't play well in the same tournaments.

But the good thing about golf is that you can still have riveting battles between players that aren't No 1 and 2. For example, Garcia vs Rose and Stenson vs Mickelson were two brilliant contests in the past year, and none of those players would have been in the top 5 of the rankings.

Agree that they were brilliant matches, but brilliant matches don't move the viewership dial. Let me stress that this is important as more viewers equals more revenue which equals more air time.

Joey stop being that cranky old guy. If you don't understand where I am coming from it's ok, but don't be that guy.

The fact is we have all these great players and yet we rarely see two of them firing on all cyclinders. Forget parity, Snead and Hogan, Jack and Arnie, Jack and Watson all competed within a stroke or two of each other in majors. Throw in more guys that can play doesn't excuse the fact that the we can't get 2 of the best 5-7 players to challenge each other during the majors.

While Sergio and Rose as well as Stenson and Phil were amazing matches most of these people are unknown to the public.

My case is made by tennis. Forget the Tiger Woods effect---look at what Agassi vs Sampras did for Men's Tennis. Major after major they lived up to the hype- is golf different for sure, but once a year I would like to see the Top 5 live up to the hype. How amazing would it be to see Spieth go head to head with DJ and Rory? If you could get that once a year in any combination of the Top 5-7 players with 2-3 of them close that would grow viewership.

People want to be compelled, people want history and greatness. No offense but Stenson's Open while a great show doesn't add to golf- he likely will be a one hit wonder.

Agree that they were brilliant matches, but brilliant matches don't move the viewership dial. Let me stress that this is important as more viewers equals more revenue which equals more air time.

 

Joey stop being that cranky old guy. If you don't understand where I am coming from it's ok, but don't be that guy.

 

The fact is we have all these great players and yet we rarely see two of them firing on all cyclinders. Forget parity, Snead and Hogan, Jack and Arnie, Jack and Watson all competed within a stroke or two of each other in majors. Throw in more guys that can play doesn't excuse the fact that the we can't get 2 of the best 5-7 players to challenge each other during the majors.

 

While Sergio and Rose as well as Stenson and Phil were amazing matches most of these people are unknown to the public.

 

My case is made by tennis. Forget the Tiger Woods effect---look at what Agassi vs Sampras did for Men's Tennis. Major after major they lived up to the hype- is golf different for sure, but once a year I would like to see the Top 5 live up to the hype. How amazing would it be to see Spieth go head to head with DJ and Rory? If you could get that once a year in any combination of the Top 5-7 players with 2-3 of them close that would grow viewership.

 

People want to be compelled, people want history and greatness. No offense but Stenson's Open while a great show doesn't add to golf- he likely will be a one hit wonder.

The issue is that in golf it's just simply hard to have consistent rivalries and showdowns simply just based on the odds that two great players out of a field of 140 plus guys go head to head down the stretch on a Sunday at a major are just slim. Rivalries and repeated showdowns in golf just doesn't happen frequently as much as we like them to happen. Even some of the ones we look back on now are more hyped up by media than anything.

Like how many times did Nicklaus, Palmer, and, Hogan actually go at it? All I can recall is the famous 1960 Cherry Hills US Open that gets brought up regularly since Palmer won it in the fashion that he did.

Nicklaus and Watson went head to head twice

Nicklaus and Trevino twice

Nicklaus and Palmer at least 3 times

Hogan and Snead twice

That is just off the top of my head 7 of those are within 10 years of each other. We are going on 20 years without a true massive showdown. Again we could call DJ vs Spieth and Spieth vs Day, but neither were the threat they are today.

There are some historic epic duals, but in the minority when you look at the majors overall. I think that's overstated.

You don't think Mickelson vs. Stenson was a showdown for the ages then you aren't appreciative of their talent and how that shaped up last year so just don't know what to say.

You may not think Woods vs. Rocco was a massive showdown, but the storyline made it massive at the time and has proved to be historically so.

1975 Masters wasn't a "showdown" in the sense the guys were all in the same group, but it's one of the most dramatic ever for the way the action played out - just an example guys don't have to be head to head necessarily to have plenty of drama.

Also, you are looking back on established and done careers. Why isn't Spieth vs. others "massive" - just because his career isn't over and he doesn't have 8 majors, or whatever?

Nicklaus and Watson went head to head twice

Nicklaus and Trevino twice

Nicklaus and Palmer at least 3 times

Hogan and Snead twice

 

That is just off the top of my head 7 of those are within 10 years of each other. We are going on 20 years without a true massive showdown. Again we could call DJ vs Spieth and Spieth vs Day, but neither were the threat they are today.

Arguably the greatest showdown of all time happened last year at The Open, let's not look past that. Showdowns happens on an almost weekly basis, unless one person runs away from the field. Because it's not the top players in the game doesn't make it any less exciting.

There are some historic epic duals, but in the minority when you look at the majors overall. I think that's overstated.

 

You don't think Mickelson vs. Stenson was a showdown for the ages then you aren't appreciative of their talent and how that shaped up last year so just don't know what to say.

 

You may not think Woods vs. Rocco was a massive showdown, but the storyline made it massive at the time and has proved to be historically so.

 

1975 Masters wasn't a "showdown" in the sense the guys were all in the same group, but it's one of the most dramatic ever for the way the action played out - just an example guys don't have to be head to head necessarily to have plenty of drama.

 

Also, you are looking back on established and done careers. Why isn't Spieth vs. others "massive" - just because his career isn't over and he doesn't have 8 majors, or whatever?

Exactly. It's so much easier to look back on guys finished careers and reminisce. Give it a few years and see where golf takes us.

Here are a few to consider since 1950

US Open 1951 - Hogan beats Demaret in playoff

US Open 1956 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 1

US Open 1960 - Arnie beats Jack by 2

US Open 1962 - Jack beats Arnie in playoff

US Open 1967- Jack beats Arnie by 4

US Open 1968 - Trevino beats Jack by 4

US Open 1971 - Trevino beats Jack playoff

US Open 1982 - Watson beats Jack by 2

US Open 2000 - Tiger beats Phil by 3

Open 1968 - Player beats Jack by 2

Open 1972 - Trevino beats Jack by 1

Open 1977 - Watson beats Jack by 1

Open 1978 Jack beats Crenshaw, Floyd and Kite by 2

Open 1979 - Seve beats Jack and Crenshaw by 3

Open 1980 - Watson beats Trevino by 4

Open 1983 - Watson beats Irwin by 1

Open 1984 - Seve beats Watson by 2

Open 1993 - Norman beats Faldo by 2

Masters 1954 - Snead beats Hogan in playoff

Masters 1955 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 7

Masters 1961 - Player beats Arnie by 1

Masters 1964 - Arnie beats Nicklaus by 6

Masters 1965 - Nicklaus beats Arnie and Player

Masters 1975 - Nicklaus beats Miller by 1

Masters 1977 - Watson beats Nicklaus by 2

Masters 1978 - Player beats Watson by 1

Masters 1981 - Watson beats Nicklaus and Miller by 2

Masters 1986 - Nicklaus beats Kite and Norman by 1

Masters 1996 - Faldo beats Norman by 5

Masters 2001 - Tiger beats Duval by 2

Masters 2004 - Mickelson beats Els by 1

PGA 1969 - Dloyd beat Player by 1

PGA 1975 - Trevino beats Nicklaus by 1

PGA 1984 - Trevino beats player by 4

There is your historic trends- yikes that was a lot of work!!! So yes it was more prevalent back in the day.

I will say this...the PGA may suffer due to the lack of classic showdowns. Look at this list of awesome battles and the PGA Championship has only one per decade in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Here are a few to consider since 1950

US Open 1951 - Hogan beats Demaret in playoff

US Open 1956 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 1

US Open 1960 - Arnie beats Jack by 2

US Open 1962 - Jack beats Arnie in playoff

US Open 1967- Jack beats Arnie by 4

US Open 1968 - Trevino beats Jack by 4

US Open 1971 - Trevino beats Jack playoff

US Open 1982 - Watson beats Jack by 2

US Open 2000 - Tiger beats Phil by 3

 

Open 1968 - Player beats Jack by 2

Open 1972 - Trevino beats Jack by 1

Open 1977 - Watson beats Jack by 1

Open 1978 Jack beats Crenshaw, Floyd and Kite by 2

Open 1979 - Seve beats Jack and Crenshaw by 3

Open 1980 - Watson beats Trevino by 4

Open 1983 - Watson beats Irwin by 1

Open 1984 - Seve beats Watson by 2

Open 1993 - Norman beats Faldo by 2

 

Masters 1954 - Snead beats Hogan in playoff

Masters 1955 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 7

Masters 1961 - Player beats Arnie by 1

Masters 1964 - Arnie beats Nicklaus by 6

Masters 1965 - Nicklaus beats Arnie and Player

Masters 1975 - Nicklaus beats Miller by 1

Masters 1977 - Watson beats Nicklaus by 2

Masters 1978 - Player beats Watson by 1

Masters 1981 - Watson beats Nicklaus and Miller by 2

Masters 1986 - Nicklaus beats Kite and Norman by 1

Masters 1996 - Faldo beats Norman by 5

Masters 2001 - Tiger beats Duval by 2

Masters 2004 - Mickelson beats Els by 1

 

PGA 1969 - Dloyd beat Player by 1

PGA 1975 - Trevino beats Nicklaus by 1

PGA 1984 - Trevino beats player by 4

 

There is your historic trends- yikes that was a lot of work!!! So yes it was more prevalent back in the day.

 

I will say this...the PGA may suffer due to the lack of classic showdowns. Look at this list of awesome battles and the PGA Championship has only one per decade in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Maybe so. But it all depends on what you are looking for.

I can quickly name these off without doing any research:

2002 US Open - Tiger, Phil, & Sergio

2005 Masters - Tiger & Dimarco

2005 PGA - Phil, Vijay, DL3, & Tiger

2006 Open - Tiger, Sergio, Dimarco

2007 Open - Harrington & Sergio

2008 PGA - Harrington & Sergio

You went back 53 years from 2004, so I guess we wait until 2057 and see what's up.

We as viewers have been (for the most part) robbed of can't miss television. The one thing that could potentially bring the masses back to golf in the post-Tiger era are the famous Sunday showdowns for major championship glory. For the most part we haven't seen it for 20 years.

 

Jack vs Arnie (many times)

Jack vs Arnie vs Hogan

Jack vs Trevino

Jack vs Watson

Hogan vs Demaret

Hogan vs Snead

 

These were epic duels with players in their primes and in many cases these same two players faced each other for 1st and 2nd on multiple occasions.

 

Since then we have been promised Tiger vs Mickelson which never really happened and the current options of Spieth vs Rory vs DJ vs Day vs Fowler etc.

 

While we have seen Spieth vs DJ it was really DJ before DJ and Spieth vs Day which was the beginning and perhaps end of Day.

 

Can you imagine how amazing golf would be if we could get the showdowns of Old but with Today's players? A Sunday showdown with Rory, Spieth and DJ?

 

If we can get a run of great golf from these guys I believe the masses will come back to golf in the post-Tiger era. We just can't have 3 guys struggling to make the cut with every once in a while one of these guys winning.

I think the high gear they (DJ, Speith, Day, Fowler,etc..) have to catch to be in contention come Sunday is a little different then the gear the players of old had to catch. The depth of talent today is almost hard to comprehend at times.

You went back 53 years from 2004, so I guess we wait until 2057 and see what's up.

35ish great matchups in 212 majors.

sorry ... personally don't care about perceived lack of historical matchups ... i watch golf regardless of who is on the leaderboard or what tournament it is ...

 

I think the high gear they (DJ, Speith, Day, Fowler,etc..) have to catch to be in contention come Sunday is a little different then the gear the players of old had to catch. The depth of talent today is almost hard to comprehend at times.

Here are a few to consider since 1950

US Open 1951 - Hogan beats Demaret in playoff

US Open 1956 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 1

US Open 1960 - Arnie beats Jack by 2

US Open 1962 - Jack beats Arnie in playoff

US Open 1967- Jack beats Arnie by 4

US Open 1968 - Trevino beats Jack by 4

US Open 1971 - Trevino beats Jack playoff

US Open 1982 - Watson beats Jack by 2

US Open 2000 - Tiger beats Phil by 3

 

Open 1968 - Player beats Jack by 2

Open 1972 - Trevino beats Jack by 1

Open 1977 - Watson beats Jack by 1

Open 1978 Jack beats Crenshaw, Floyd and Kite by 2

Open 1979 - Seve beats Jack and Crenshaw by 3

Open 1980 - Watson beats Trevino by 4

Open 1983 - Watson beats Irwin by 1

Open 1984 - Seve beats Watson by 2

Open 1993 - Norman beats Faldo by 2

 

Masters 1954 - Snead beats Hogan in playoff

Masters 1955 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 7

Masters 1961 - Player beats Arnie by 1

Masters 1964 - Arnie beats Nicklaus by 6

Masters 1965 - Nicklaus beats Arnie and Player

Masters 1975 - Nicklaus beats Miller by 1

Masters 1977 - Watson beats Nicklaus by 2

Masters 1978 - Player beats Watson by 1

Masters 1981 - Watson beats Nicklaus and Miller by 2

Masters 1986 - Nicklaus beats Kite and Norman by 1

Masters 1996 - Faldo beats Norman by 5

Masters 2001 - Tiger beats Duval by 2

Masters 2004 - Mickelson beats Els by 1

 

PGA 1969 - Dloyd beat Player by 1

PGA 1975 - Trevino beats Nicklaus by 1

PGA 1984 - Trevino beats player by 4

 

There is your historic trends- yikes that was a lot of work!!! So yes it was more prevalent back in the day.

 

I will say this...the PGA may suffer due to the lack of classic showdowns. Look at this list of awesome battles and the PGA Championship has only one per decade in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

You are just looking at who finished 1-2, that's not a duel - lots of those aren't in the final group and not head to head. Floyd in '69 not a massive duel. Jack's in the clubhouse in '82, it wasn't a duel, etc.

Jack rolled by everyone in '86, again in the clubhouse, not dueling, it was all Jack and others not being able to catch him after he was done.

Love nostalgia but you aren't researching/supporting your original idea with the list.

Here are a few to consider since 1950

US Open 1951 - Hogan beats Demaret in playoff

US Open 1956 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 1

US Open 1960 - Arnie beats Jack by 2

US Open 1962 - Jack beats Arnie in playoff

US Open 1967- Jack beats Arnie by 4

US Open 1968 - Trevino beats Jack by 4

US Open 1971 - Trevino beats Jack playoff

US Open 1982 - Watson beats Jack by 2

US Open 2000 - Tiger beats Phil by 3

 

Open 1968 - Player beats Jack by 2

Open 1972 - Trevino beats Jack by 1

Open 1977 - Watson beats Jack by 1

Open 1978 Jack beats Crenshaw, Floyd and Kite by 2

Open 1979 - Seve beats Jack and Crenshaw by 3

Open 1980 - Watson beats Trevino by 4

Open 1983 - Watson beats Irwin by 1

Open 1984 - Seve beats Watson by 2

Open 1993 - Norman beats Faldo by 2

 

Masters 1954 - Snead beats Hogan in playoff

Masters 1955 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 7

Masters 1961 - Player beats Arnie by 1

Masters 1964 - Arnie beats Nicklaus by 6

Masters 1965 - Nicklaus beats Arnie and Player

Masters 1975 - Nicklaus beats Miller by 1

Masters 1977 - Watson beats Nicklaus by 2

Masters 1978 - Player beats Watson by 1

Masters 1981 - Watson beats Nicklaus and Miller by 2

Masters 1986 - Nicklaus beats Kite and Norman by 1

Masters 1996 - Faldo beats Norman by 5

Masters 2001 - Tiger beats Duval by 2

Masters 2004 - Mickelson beats Els by 1

 

PGA 1969 - Dloyd beat Player by 1

PGA 1975 - Trevino beats Nicklaus by 1

PGA 1984 - Trevino beats player by 4

 

There is your historic trends- yikes that was a lot of work!!! So yes it was more prevalent back in the day.

 

I will say this...the PGA may suffer due to the lack of classic showdowns. Look at this list of awesome battles and the PGA Championship has only one per decade in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

 

You are just looking at who finished 1-2, that's not a duel - lots of those aren't in the final group and not head to head. Floyd in '69 not a massive duel. Jack's in the clubhouse in '82, it wasn't a duel, etc.

 

Jack rolled by everyone in '86, again in the clubhouse, not dueling, it was all Jack and others not being able to catch him after he was done.

 

Love nostalgia but you aren't researching/supporting your original idea with the list.

Tiger beat Ernie and Migel Angel Jimenez by 15 in 2000.

Here are a few to consider since 1950

US Open 1951 - Hogan beats Demaret in playoff

US Open 1956 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 1

US Open 1960 - Arnie beats Jack by 2

US Open 1962 - Jack beats Arnie in playoff

US Open 1967- Jack beats Arnie by 4

US Open 1968 - Trevino beats Jack by 4

US Open 1971 - Trevino beats Jack playoff

US Open 1982 - Watson beats Jack by 2

US Open 2000 - Tiger beats Phil by 3

 

Open 1968 - Player beats Jack by 2

Open 1972 - Trevino beats Jack by 1

Open 1977 - Watson beats Jack by 1

Open 1978 Jack beats Crenshaw, Floyd and Kite by 2

Open 1979 - Seve beats Jack and Crenshaw by 3

Open 1980 - Watson beats Trevino by 4

Open 1983 - Watson beats Irwin by 1

Open 1984 - Seve beats Watson by 2

Open 1993 - Norman beats Faldo by 2

 

Masters 1954 - Snead beats Hogan in playoff

Masters 1955 - Middlecoff beats Hogan by 7

Masters 1961 - Player beats Arnie by 1

Masters 1964 - Arnie beats Nicklaus by 6

Masters 1965 - Nicklaus beats Arnie and Player

Masters 1975 - Nicklaus beats Miller by 1

Masters 1977 - Watson beats Nicklaus by 2

Masters 1978 - Player beats Watson by 1

Masters 1981 - Watson beats Nicklaus and Miller by 2

Masters 1986 - Nicklaus beats Kite and Norman by 1

Masters 1996 - Faldo beats Norman by 5

Masters 2001 - Tiger beats Duval by 2

Masters 2004 - Mickelson beats Els by 1

 

PGA 1969 - Dloyd beat Player by 1

PGA 1975 - Trevino beats Nicklaus by 1

PGA 1984 - Trevino beats player by 4

 

There is your historic trends- yikes that was a lot of work!!! So yes it was more prevalent back in the day.

 

I will say this...the PGA may suffer due to the lack of classic showdowns. Look at this list of awesome battles and the PGA Championship has only one per decade in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

 

You are just looking at who finished 1-2, that's not a duel - lots of those aren't in the final group and not head to head. Floyd in '69 not a massive duel. Jack's in the clubhouse in '82, it wasn't a duel, etc.

 

Jack rolled by everyone in '86, again in the clubhouse, not dueling, it was all Jack and others not being able to catch him after he was done.

 

Love nostalgia but you aren't researching/supporting your original idea with the list.

Exactly. This list is a lot of nostalgia combined with taking a look who took 1st and 2nd certain years in the record book.

Like how is the 1964 Masters a great Nicklaus/Palmer head to head battle when Nicklaus was 9 shots off the pace starting the 4th round?

For the record I only listed them because someone said that it happened a couple of times.

I think many of the arguments against are flawed. I tried to leave out those tournaments where second place was a blow out...i.e. Ernie finishing far second to Tiger at Pebble Beach.

Some of these were comeback winners but you can't dispute the great matches that occurred within the final 3-5 groups. How can you even stand on that argument? Look at the numbers?

I have a hard time including Sergio's second to Tiger because he is likely not worthy of the HOF. One major.

I am talking about the last 10-20 years- we have fewer great head to head major finishes of Top Tier Talent than anytime since 1950.

We have 4-5 brand name athletes - one usually shines while the others fail to get into contention.

And to sum this up- I am a golfaholic as are you so to say "I love watching anyway" means nothing. I am talking about how to attract new watchers. How to improve ratings and interest in the game. Without those things we will likely see golf companies fold, courses close and less golf on tv.

Golf needs coverage that isn't consistently garbage. We miss a lot due to fluff pieces, unnecessary shots inside the booth, and other garbage that waters down the product.

I like how very few of you admit that you would love to see a major with the Top three tied on the back nine of the final day. That would be amazing!

I am sure you would prefer DJ vs Haas.

Golf is hard and there are a lot of good players who can get hot. You can't make something happen, but it would be great to get a run of 5 great golfers going head to head down the stretch. When was really the last time we had that?

To an extent Sergio vs Rose, but even then it wasn't one of the major draws and they both might end up with only one major.

I think you would have to go back to Mickelson beating Els in 2004. That was 13 years ago!

Sadly, this was the peak of Woods vs. Mickelson

Fair enough, but back in 2004 we didn't know how many majors Phil would win. How would we view Henrik Stenson's Open victory if he wins 4 more majors?

Point being, let time tell. We probably will look back at this era's majors different than we do now.

Sadly, this was the peak of Woods vs. Mickelson

 

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Their best versus match was when they were paired together at the Ryder Cup and battled each other all the way.

I really don't care if the masses are in to golf, are back to golf (if they ever really were). I'd rather have a few passionate people like you all who love the game to hang out with than a bunch of 1/2 a** idiots.

I really don't care if the masses are in to golf, are back to golf (if they ever really were). I'd rather have a few passionate people like you all who love the game to hang out with than a bunch of 1/2 a** idiots.

There will always be crazies like us- but we need the average sports fan or we start losing coverage. Back in the 1980s you didn't get majors on the weekdays and you only would get a couple of hours on Sat and Sun.