Problem not tipping a shaft for a 3wood?

I am just starting to play with some higher end wood shafts.

I am looking at a Tensei Pro Orange 70s for my 3 wood. I know it already has a fairly stiff tip. Would there be any issues skipping the recommended 1/2" tip trim, and just butt cutting the shaft to playing length?

Doesn't tip trimming just make a shaft play stouter in the tip?

Thanks.

I am just starting to play with some higher end wood shafts.

 

I am looking at a Tensei Pro Orange 70s for my 3 wood. I know it already has a fairly stiff tip. Would there be any issues skipping the recommended 1/2" tip trim, and just butt cutting the shaft to playing length?

 

Doesn't tip trimming just make a shaft play stouter in the tip?

 

Thanks.

We tip trim to "keep the shaft profile" when we add head weight, and on average we count 10 grams from a driver to a 3W, and another 10 grams to a 5W, so we can split it up and say we "should" tip trim 1/8" for each 2.5 grams head weight added.

(thats the general rule of thumb, but some shaft models has other tip trim instructions)

If you skip that, the shaft as a hole will play a tad softer, and the profile gets a bias against a higher launch.

There is no right or wrong here, only what fits the actual player, and i play several shafts in my bag with less tip trim than standard, simply because i wanted a softer flex and higher launching profile. (ex, both my hybrids with PX Tour Issue 5.5 shafts is "soft stepped 2x, because there was no 5.0 shaft in that line up, and im more happy with a mid launch profile, and my 5W who also is a tip stiff Low launch shaft - Grafalloy Tour is only tipped 0.5 like a 3W, but thats because its a better fit over all for me )

Great info, from a great source, thanks Howard.

The Orange Pro would certainly seem a candidate for this with it characteristics, and me probably needing a touch softer tip.

On the Pro Orange from Mitsubishi site

"This first of it’s kind bend profile for MCA GOLF uses a counter-balanced design along with an extreme tip-stiff design to provided added versatility for the stronger player"

The extreme part is a little concerning. I may need to consider the non-pro for the fairway, and tip a bit extra, maybe 3/4"

 

We tip trim to "keep the shaft profile" when we add head weight, and on average we count 10 grams from a driver to a 3W, and another 10 grams to a 5W, so we can split it up and say we "should" tip trim 1/8" for each 2.5 grams head weight added.

 

Howard,

In your opinion, (everything else equal) does the additional 10 grams weight soften an untipped shaft by a full flex?

Thanks.

If you skip the tip trim, just make the playing length cut 1/2" over standard and choke down when testing. That way if you decide tipping is necessary, you can do so and the shaft will then play at your standard length without needing a 1/2" butt extension.

If you determine through testing the shaft is fine un-tipped, you can just butt trim to desire length.

Thanks all, got a great deal on it, pulled the trigger, will play an inch longer with no tip trim when it comes, can adjust if need be.

We tip trim to "keep the shaft profile" when we add head weight, and on average we count 10 grams from a driver to a 3W, and another 10 grams to a 5W, so we can split it up and say we "should" tip trim 1/8" for each 2.5 grams head weight added.

 

 

Howard,

 

In your opinion, (everything else equal) does the additional 10 grams weight soften an untipped shaft by a full flex?

 

Thanks.

We cant really judge it that way......follow me on this one...

Steel shafts for irons (DG parallels) respond with 1 CPM stronger for each 1/8" tip trim.

If we for the sake of ease say its 10 CPM from R to S, and another 10 CPM from S to X, ON THE PAPER it seems like we can make a R flex to become S by 10 x 1/8 " or 1.25 as tip trim....sorry, only BUTT CPM will be the same, and since we started from a LOW launch profile, we get "ultra low", with a strange feel.

On graphite we cant even get close on butt CPM since it takes 2/8" of tip trim to get 1 CPM, so we will (on the paper), need 2.5 inch tip trim to get BUTT side equal, but since many shafts only has a 3 inch long tip section, and we need about 1.25 to insert, and another 0.25 to the ferrule, its impossible to tip trim that much, and if we could, the shaft will not be close in feel to its "Stronger brother" with a flex label stronger.

10 grams or 0.5 inch tip trim as suggested for many shaft manufacturers ONLY stiffen up butt CPM by 2, and thats "nothing", so we actually go softer into woods if we like it or not (10 grams is 5 SWP or 5 CPM, we only gained 2 = we went 3 CPM softer), BUT the shaft PROFILE remains the same, so we dont change bending properties or move the bend point like we does wen go above that.

If we DROP that 0.5 of tip trim, we go softer by about half a flex on BUTT, while if we followed tip trim instructions, we went about 0.25 flex softer (and thats how it should be, if we like to keep the profile)

That means we cant modify a shaft to become "equal" to a flex stronger, thats only on the paper that might look like that, but we totally altered the hole profile and made a shaft that would feel silly stout and hars, and not anything like its stronger brothers.

Great info, from a great source, thanks Howard.

 

The Orange Pro would certainly seem a candidate for this with it characteristics, and me probably needing a touch softer tip.

 

On the Pro Orange from Mitsubishi site

 

"This first of it’s kind bend profile for MCA GOLF uses a counter-balanced design along with an extreme tip-stiff design to provided added versatility for the stronger player"

 

The extreme part is a little concerning. I may need to consider the non-pro for the fairway, and tip a bit extra, maybe 3/4"

If it is anything like the Tensei White, the tip on that thing is insanely stable (read: boardy) haha. We have one in a demo M1 and the thing is like rebar, feels very similar to the T1100 I tried in my buddies' Mizuno driver. Apparently MC changed the Boron out of the tip of the white and added MR70 for the orange, which is even more stable than the Boron. Yikes.

I had almost a 2 year spell (before this season) where I was able to manage ctaper 130x all the way through my iron set, so hopefully I can manage these in a normal S flex, with no tipping. I know it is graphite and steel , but the 130X is pretty close to as stiff as you get all the way through the shaft.

I just wanted to try the high end shaft gig at least once, and I like the CB aspect. It could be a failure, but hey we just sell em on the BST right?

We have one in a demo M1 and the thing is like rebar, feels very similar to the T1100 I tried in my buddies' Mizuno driver.

You sure that's not due to the fact that TM tips the driver shafts 1"? If so, it's not really an accurate judgement on the profile as designed.

Thanks all, got a great deal on it, pulled the trigger, will play an inch longer with no tip trim when it comes, can adjust if need be.

I had the same question as you a few weeks ago. Put my fairway wood together without tipping the shaft and trimmed the butt to the short end of 3w range. Only played hit it a few times on the course since then but really liking it so far. No problem hitting it high with a 16.5° head. Good luck!

Purely anecdotal, but I've had good luck doing so... I put a 6Q3 Red Tie I'd had in my Epic driver into an Epic 3w, shortened the shaft to -1" std, lofted it all the way up, and had good luck hitting high 4w length shots with it. The real Red Ties are fairly stiff to flex, so I think it helped get a little easier launch off the deck, especially since I've rarely had luck launching anything less than 19* off the deck.

We have one in a demo M1 and the thing is like rebar, feels very similar to the T1100 I tried in my buddies' Mizuno driver.

 

You sure that's not due to the fact that TM tips the driver shafts 1"? If so, it's not really an accurate judgement on the profile as designed.

I actually forgot they did that until after I posted it. It is very likely a case of that. However, for me, every infused tip I have tried (be it Boron or T1100) from the White, T1100, or Speeder Platinum has been boardy. I know the Speeder and T1100 were not tipped. But that's just me.

So should I untip my pro white 70-s in my 3 wood to help a little on launch and spin or trim it 1/4 instead of 1/2"

anyone?

thanks

So should I untip my pro white 70-s in my 3 wood to help a little on launch and spin or trim it 1/4 instead of 1/2"

Well you can tip less then recommended - but the difference between 1/4" and 1/2" is going to be negligible (so either do the 1/2" or nothing). But you can't really "untip" a shaft that's already been tipped. Too much tipping generally means 'deal with it' or replace the shaft.

Well (for full disclosure) If the bore is long enough, you might be able to use a blind bore installation (not insert the shaft all the way down to the bottom of the hosel bore). But you want to make sure there is at least a full inch of the tip inserted in order to get a good glue joint. A nd most hosel bores are not a whole lot deeper then that (1-1/4" is fairly typical but it could be as deep as 1-1/2").

Also, going shorter with playing length and then adding some head weight can soften it up a little but you usually need quite a bit (of both) to be noticeable so it rarely is a practical solution to too much tipping.

When i got my old R11s (which i still play) i thought the shaft played a bit soft until i realized the head was very very heavy (Still not sure why its so heavy), i was surprised how much difference it made to the feel but remembering putting lead tape on iron heads i guess it makes sense.

So should I untip my pro white 70-s in my 3 wood to help a little on launch and spin or trim it 1/4 instead of 1/2"

 

Well you can tip less then recommended - but the difference between 1/4" and 1/2" is going to be negligible (so either do the 1/2" or nothing). But you can't really "untip" a shaft that's already been tipped. Too much tipping generally means 'deal with it' or replace the shaft.

 

Well (for full disclosure) If the bore is long enough, you might be able to use a blind bore installation (not insert the shaft all the way down to the bottom of the hosel bore). But you want to make sure there is at least a full inch of the tip inserted in order to get a good glue joint. A nd most hosel bores are not a whole lot deeper then that (1-1/4" is fairly typical but it could be as deep as 1-1/2").

 

Also, going shorter with playing length and then adding some head weight can soften it up a little but you usually need quite a bit (of both) to be noticeable so it rarely is a practical solution to too much tipping.

at 100mph on 3 wood and a natural low launch and spin swing, what would you recommend

thanks

Tipping is much more about controlling the feel of the shaft for most then a way to control ball flight. Try it with no tipping first but leave a little extra length at the butt end in case the feel gets too soft for you. Not sure I'd expect any improvement in the ball flight (higher) compared to following the recommended tipping - but you never know until you try.

Bumping this thread with a question,

I tried the below 70g R in approx 2/3i length Driving iron, really liked shaft, I get on with anything counter balanced. I want to put in a 4Hyb and my fitter wants to put in a 70S untipped for me, I play about 1/4" short also. 90% of what he gives me just works but I want to understand. In effect this will be 3x soft stepped so will play like the R/R+? I suppose the balance point will also be 1.5" higher which i do not mind, just worried if too soft.

What do you think?

you should be fine, some of the hybrid tip trim recommendations can be a bit on the stiff side.

especially since you are going up a flex.

If you really feel you need to, you could have him build it 3/4" long (or +1/2, based on your -1/4).

I play my hybrids at -1" (4h (22) at 38.5-39.0 and do play a number of stiff shafts straight in and that's with 7-12g extra headweight added, and I don't have an issue.

Thanks,

Not even sure what length I play in hybrid, let him build it, knows me well. I play a bit short and light SW D0/D1 also so that prob also stiffens it up a bit. I play Stiff in stock shafts but aftermarket a bit too stiff sometimes. I'm playing Shimada Tour Mid 115g Reg Hard stepped in my irons which are just perfect..

Your club fitter seems to be above average when it comes to shaft knowledge. When i look at the Orange Hybrid EI profile, it has a stiff tip section and a linear progression of flex from upper mid to butt, so this is the type of profile where there should be no worries doing exactly what he suggest to do.

Please return and tell us how that worked out, we never really know before its tried off, but from what i can see, this should be quite "safe" and work good.

PS! Pro Orange only have 0.75" as tip trim for a 4H, most likely due to its progressive stiffer butt section profile (more tip trim = longer butt = stronger, so to keep feel, less tip trim and more butt trim than normal)

Yes he is one of the top guys in the UK, I have to wait a week or so until I get it but will let you know how I get on.

I thought in the chart attached it shows 1.5" for a 4H?

https://www.mca-golf.com/products/ck-pro-orange-hybrid

the tip trim chart you posted is for WOODs...look at the headers again

Ah I see!

Out of interest why would you put the hybrid shaft in a wood when they have a wood shaft?

you wouldn't, the tip trim chart for woods is for the driver shaft which typically comes in a 46" length and then is tip trimmed for the specific club, and then butt trim for length.

Thanks, the website confused me they have a link on hybrid page to PDF and it is the wood shaft!

I put a Graphite Design AD DJ in with no tip trim into an Epic Flash 5 wood and butt trimmed it to 42”... didn’t love how it performed but it felt fine. Ended up buying a 16.5 TS2 and the stock shaft broke during COVID shutdown, forcing me to put a Titleist tip on the DJ. This thing is now money for me, pretty high ball flight but damn is it reliable. Don’t be afraid to not tip if you think you want more launch, and most likely a softer feel too. I played a 1” tipped AD TP in my driver and felt it was too much, so I got an untipped one to try. Felt like a noodle so I now have tipped it 3/4” inch and I’m all good. Depends on shaft but I can definitely agree with anyone who says GD shafts are sensitive to tipping.

I play a Tensei pro orange in my driver, which Is great with my anti left head. My 3 wood I like to be able to launch high off the deck when needed and move it left when needed. When hit off the tee I am not looking for run out, but I do need distance control. The pro orange was too low spin in my 3 wood to accomplish this. I use an Orange devotion tipped an inch min my 3 wood. Meets my needs better. I am not a high ball speed player anymore. Maybe 160 on a good day.

Finally got to hit it today and I will never question my clubfitter again, it is the closest thing to a perfect club for me