Anatomy's effect on swing plane?

I hear all the time that someone's anatomy has an effect on the ideal way for them to swing the golf club. However, I cannot find consistent information on the internet.

So generally speaking, what anatomical features lead someone to be a little more likely to be on the flatter end of the spectrum vs. the more upright end of the spectrum.

For example, arm length, height, big chest, big belly, wide shoulders, etc.

The biggest one I see is wingspan to height.

I’m 6-2 with a 6-0 wingspan. I’ll be more upright and vertical.

Hogan (I was told) was 5-7 versus 6-0, so he was flatter.

Upper arm to lower arm ratio.

Position of waist on torso.

Leg length

These things also affect things like when the right elbow straightens.

That’s why copying swings and positions and/or calling position X ideal, a losing battle.

Interesting. I'm 5'9" with a 6' wingspan and have always been pretty flat.

The biggest one I see is wingspan to height.

 

I’m 6-2 with a 6-0 wingspan. I’ll be more upright and vertical.

 

Hogan (I was told) was 5-7 versus 6-0, so he was flatter.

 

Upper arm to lower arm ratio.

Position of waist on torso.

Leg length

 

 

These things also affect things like when the right elbow straightens.

 

That’s why copying swings and positions and/or calling position X ideal, a losing battle.

At 6' 3" and a 38" inseam and long arms (very short torso) what would your thoughts be on the type of swing that would likely produce? Thanks

Upper arm to lower arm ratio.

 

These things also affect things like when the right elbow straightens.

Hm! I’m otherwise normally proportioned, but my upper arms are significantly shorter than my forearms (the total arm length is ‘normal’, though). It’s so bad that I can’t even come close to racking a power clean no matter how much I externally rotate my humeri (humeruses?). I’m hyper mobile and stupidly flexible, so that’s not really an issue.

As most of my 4000+ golf swings are just variants of a right arm slash, I’m curious as to how my peculiar distribution would come into play..

Mike Adams, while a bit off an odd duck, has some great information...I highly suggest you check him out. I've said it before but I was blown away during a teaching summit where he was the guest speaker....I wish I could find the 6 pages of notes I took, ugh

Very interesting. I’m 5’ 10” and wingspan is 6’1” and I’ve always had a flatter swing. Good to know it matches up and I won’t worry about it.

I'm 6' tall with long legs, a short torso, and a 6'-3" wingspan, and I have the flattest backswing most people have ever seen. (I play my irons and wedges 3º-4º flat.)

IMO, a flat backswing is totally fine—and possibly even preferable for setting the club in a great delivery position—but it can lead to some serious goat-humping if other conditions are not met.

Namely, a flat backswing encourages more rotation, and excessive rotation leads to the left hip collapsing inward at the "top" of the backswing. This is an absolute death move (it's really 45º with a move toward the target line and also away from the target).

I've taken my game to new heights this year by making extreme lie angle adjustments to accommodate my flatter plane preference, and this journey has led to new realizations that have changed everything. After 3 months with much flatter lie angles, I've come to understand so much more about the way I swing and what I need to do to hit my best ball.

In particular, the left hip thing has been huge. I tend to rotate too much on my backswing; this causes my left hip to collapse inward; and then I have to either work around it (by coming OTT) or else get it out of the way before attempting to deliver the club (which is unstable and relies on timing). If I don't do either of these things, I hit some pretty wild blocks that are at least 10º right of my target.

The most annoying thing about learning to work with my anatomy has been the realization that I've played crappy golf for so long despite having a lot of very good natural swing characteristics.

Instructors have always keyed in on my low, flat, rotational backswing. People I play with are always a little shocked at my backswing. I suppose all this attention led me to believe that my backswing was a problem and that some of my natural tendencies would have to be un-learned for me to play my best golf.

But here's the deal—I have video from 2014 (when I got back into golf) that shows a GREAT move with the hands from P5 to P7. My fatal flaw is evident in this old video, too, as the left hip collapse is clearly the destabilizing factor in my swing.

It's cliché as hell, but you don't hit the ball on your backswing. The point of the backswing is to get the body into a coiled position from which to deliver the club with maximum speed and stability.

My anatomy coupled with my general feeling of club head control in the backswing dictates that I will set the club in a more shallow manner than just about everyone else on the planet, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Most golf instruction takes a positive, proactive approach ("try to do it like this!"), and I think this is generally good. However, in my case, the profound answers all lie in the knowledge of what I shouldn't do rather than what I should.

With nearly 35 years of swinging experience, my hands and brain know how to hit the ball. To win at golf, I only need to know how to get out of their way and let them do their thing.

(Now if only I can figure out how to apply this knowledge to putting...)

Check out the article TB07 posted it's gold. If doesn't deal with a fat gut though.

To other posters on this thread why don't you check it out and come back and tell us how your usual swing compares to the Mike Adams analysis after you have done the checkpoints.

For me I came out as low track but was making a backswing based on mid track.

This involved a bit of arm lift at the end of the backswing which I had to adapt to in the downswing.

I chatted it over with my coach and he was fine with the lower backswing (arms level with the shoulders) rather than just above. Difference in where the hands were only about 3/4 inches.

It fell a hell of a lot more powerful.

Give it a go.

Same boat as others here. 5'7" with a 6' wingspan. Things got a lot easier once I cut down my clubs and had them bent 3* flat. I think a flat backswing is fine, so long as your path is good.

6’2” with a 6’7”-6’8” wingspan. Short upper arms compared to my forearms. Tested out as high track. Never really committed to Adams’ info, but it makes a lot of sense.

Check out the article TB07 posted it's gold. If doesn't deal with a fat gut though.

 

To other posters on this thread why don't you check it out and come back and tell us how your usual swing compares to the Mike Adams analysis after you have done the checkpoints.

 

For me I came out as low track but was making a backswing based on mid track.

 

This involved a bit of arm lift at the end of the backswing which I had to adapt to in the downswing.

 

I chatted it over with my coach and he was fine with the lower backswing (arms level with the shoulders) rather than just above. Difference in where the hands were only about 3/4 inches.

 

It fell a hell of a lot more powerful.

 

Give it a go.

Which article? I just got the website home page. I looked in Golf Tips at "Find your perfect swing", but the full article isn't there (404 error accessing). I also found back issues of Golf Magazine which I can download for $7, but if the article is available, I'd rather not waste the money.

Any links?

BT

BT

Check out the article TB07 posted it's gold. If doesn't deal with a fat gut though.

 

To other posters on this thread why don't you check it out and come back and tell us how your usual swing compares to the Mike Adams analysis after you have done the checkpoints.

 

For me I came out as low track but was making a backswing based on mid track.

 

This involved a bit of arm lift at the end of the backswing which I had to adapt to in the downswing.

 

I chatted it over with my coach and he was fine with the lower backswing (arms level with the shoulders) rather than just above. Difference in where the hands were only about 3/4 inches.

 

It fell a hell of a lot more powerful.

 

Give it a go.

 

Which article? I just got the website home page. I looked in Golf Tips at "Find your perfect swing", but the full article isn't there (404 error accessing). I also found back issues of Golf Magazine which I can download for $7, but if the article is available, I'd rather not waste the money.

 

Any links?

 

BT

 

BT

Here you go;

http://www.owendawsonpga.com/Cover_Swing_Tracking1.pdf

Similar to the article I believe that most players either hit the long or short clubs better than the other. You're​ probably low track flat if you hit 3 wood off the deck well but may miss with your wedges.

Interesting. I have been trying for 2 years to find a swing that will work with my bad back. Several lessons and lots of reading and watching videos with no real permanent solution.( There's a lot of opinions and ideas on what is best for bad backs,) Today was forecast to get near 50 so I went to a local course that's open year round. Had my typical good shot bad shot and my back was getting sore on the front 9. Back 9 I started standing a little straighter and swinging flatter around my body and had a lot better average results.

So I did a quick search on flat swings and found this topic. Did the quick test and I am a low track player. Interesting!

I assume physical issues will have an affect on what track you should / can play also. Anyway I am going to gave the low track some dedicated effort this winter to see how it holds up and how my back holds up.

A ray of hope in what has been a bleak couple years.

I think the ideal golf build would be shorter legs for low center of gravity which gives balance and then long torso and long arms. Tall guys usually aren't built like this, but if they are then damn they have a lot of power like Dustin Johnson for example.

Basically a flexible mesomorph.

Like Hogan, or Nicklaus:

You see this type of build with sprinters, Wide Receivers, Pole Vaulters, lots of athletes.

Schnee posted the link to the Mike Adams Golf Digest article on high/medium/low track a few weeks back: http://www.owendawsonpga.com/Cover_Swing_Tracking1.pdf

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> The biggest one I see is wingspan to height.

>

>

>

> I’m 6-2 with a 6-0 wingspan. I’ll be more upright and vertical.

>

>

>

> Hogan (I was told) was 5-7 versus 6-0, so he was flatter.

>

>

>

> Upper arm to lower arm ratio.

>

> Position of waist on torso.

>

> Leg length

>

>

>

>

>

> These things also affect things like when the right elbow straightens.

>

>

>

> That’s why copying swings and positions and/or calling position X ideal, a losing battle.

So I was just watching Mike Adams on Como concepts show and it’s opposite than what you guys are saying. They were explaining that if wingspan is longer than height then you would be more upright at address and in return more upright swing plane. If your wingspan is shorter than height then you would be more bent over and swing flatter. Reason for this was if your arms are shorter than height your going to have bend over more to reach club.

The other part was forearm length to upper arm length for downswing plane. Not saying I buy into swinging by these guidelines at all but was interesting.

> @Redjeep83 said:

> > @MonteScheinblum said:

> > The biggest one I see is wingspan to height.

> >

> >

> >

> > I’m 6-2 with a 6-0 wingspan. I’ll be more upright and vertical.

> >

> >

> >

> > Hogan (I was told) was 5-7 versus 6-0, so he was flatter.

> >

> >

> >

> > Upper arm to lower arm ratio.

> >

> > Position of waist on torso.

> >

> > Leg length

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > These things also affect things like when the right elbow straightens.

> >

> >

> >

> > That’s why copying swings and positions and/or calling position X ideal, a losing battle.

>

> So I was just watching Mike Adams on Como concepts show and it’s opposite than what you guys are saying. They were explaining that if wingspan is longer than height then you would be more upright at address and in return more upright swing plane. If your wingspan is shorter than height then you would be more bent over and swing flatter. Reason for this was if your arms are shorter than height your going to have bend over more to reach club.

>

> The other part was forearm length to upper arm length for downswing plane. Not saying I buy into swinging by these guidelines at all but was interesting.

I was saying that’s going to be the tendency and I have to fight it. I agree with mike which is why I struggle to get depth so I’m not too vertical. I actually discussed this with him personally.

Think about it this way. If you’re bent over more, you’re going to fight arms wiring up too much and if you’re more upright, you’re going to fight arms getting too flat and around.

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> > @Redjeep83 said:

> > > @MonteScheinblum said:

> > > The biggest one I see is wingspan to height.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I’m 6-2 with a 6-0 wingspan. I’ll be more upright and vertical.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hogan (I was told) was 5-7 versus 6-0, so he was flatter.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Upper arm to lower arm ratio.

> > >

> > > Position of waist on torso.

> > >

> > > Leg length

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > These things also affect things like when the right elbow straightens.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That’s why copying swings and positions and/or calling position X ideal, a losing battle.

> >

> > So I was just watching Mike Adams on Como concepts show and it’s opposite than what you guys are saying. They were explaining that if wingspan is longer than height then you would be more upright at address and in return more upright swing plane. If your wingspan is shorter than height then you would be more bent over and swing flatter. Reason for this was if your arms are shorter than height your going to have bend over more to reach club.

> >

> > The other part was forearm length to upper arm length for downswing plane. Not saying I buy into swinging by these guidelines at all but was interesting.

>

> I was saying that’s going to be the tendency and I have to fight it. I agree with mike which is why I struggle to get depth so I’m not too vertical. I actually discussed this with him personally.

>

> Think about it this way. If you’re bent over more, you’re going to fight arms wiring up too much and if you’re more upright, you’re going to fight arms getting too flat and around.

>

I get what your saying, being more bent over you will have to work on being more flat for it to work unless your keegan bradley but then again I don't really buy into following these strict guidelines based on measurements. My wingspan is like the same as my height (5'10") and my forearm to upper arm are the same size so according to those measurements so I should swing exactly along my shoulder line. I don't do that in real life and I swing better being slightly above the shoulder plane. The pga tour I'm sure is full of guys that go against his swing parameters.

> @Redjeep83 said:

> > @MonteScheinblum said:

> > > @Redjeep83 said:

> > > > @MonteScheinblum said:

> > > > The biggest one I see is wingspan to height.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I’m 6-2 with a 6-0 wingspan. I’ll be more upright and vertical.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hogan (I was told) was 5-7 versus 6-0, so he was flatter.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Upper arm to lower arm ratio.

> > > >

> > > > Position of waist on torso.

> > > >

> > > > Leg length

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > These things also affect things like when the right elbow straightens.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > That’s why copying swings and positions and/or calling position X ideal, a losing battle.

> > >

> > > So I was just watching Mike Adams on Como concepts show and it’s opposite than what you guys are saying. They were explaining that if wingspan is longer than height then you would be more upright at address and in return more upright swing plane. If your wingspan is shorter than height then you would be more bent over and swing flatter. Reason for this was if your arms are shorter than height your going to have bend over more to reach club.

> > >

> > > The other part was forearm length to upper arm length for downswing plane. Not saying I buy into swinging by these guidelines at all but was interesting.

> >

> > I was saying that’s going to be the tendency and I have to fight it. I agree with mike which is why I struggle to get depth so I’m not too vertical. I actually discussed this with him personally.

> >

> > Think about it this way. If you’re bent over more, you’re going to fight arms wiring up too much and if you’re more upright, you’re going to fight arms getting too flat and around.

> >

> I get what your saying, being more bent over you will have to work on being more flat for it to work unless your keegan bradley but then again I don't really buy into following these strict guidelines based on measurements. My wingspan is like the same as my height (5'10") and my forearm to upper arm are the same size so according to those measurements so I should swing exactly along my shoulder line. I don't do that in real life and I swing better being slightly above the shoulder plane. The pga tour I'm sure is full of guys that go against his swing parameters.

There are no set parameters when it comes to living organisms. It's what makes life so ****ing fantastic!

Obviously you don’t understand it fully.

It’s the matching of more things than just static measurements that will determine an optimal plane, for example lead and trail hand orientation. There are many components, such as pelvis speed, hinge type, release type, etc.

This didn’t come about by trying to prove a theory. It came from studying thousands of elite swings and how the components matched, then grouping the components. People, including tour players, get better after being tested then applying a different pattern if the testing shows it.

Almost everyone can improve, even Tour players.

> @Soloman1 said:

> Obviously you don’t understand it fully.

>

>

> It’s the matching of more things than just static measurements that will determine an optimal plane, for example lead and trail hand orientation. There are many components, such as pelvis speed, hinge type, release type, etc.

>

> This didn’t come about by trying to prove a theory. It came from studying thousands of elite swings and how the components matched, then grouping the components. People, including tour players, get better after being tested then applying a different pattern if the testing shows it.

>

> Almost everyone can improve, even Tour players.

actually I did understand the program I saw I was specifically taking about plane at top of swing or general plane of backswing which was their words for using these measurements. I agree'd more with his tests for grip, hinge and release type but then again those things can be trained and the tests just reveal what you do currently.

I just watched part of Adams on GC Swing Expedition. It repeats again tomorrow (9-18) at 5:30 edt. Adams described playing to your natural tendencies and tests for whether you are more naturally a rotator, ground pressure/pusher or lateral mover. I did one of Monte's clinics (also have all his tapes, terrific!) and discovered just how awful my hip action was so we worked on proper hip movement without sliding and that's been my main focus.

Monte also looked at our ground forces and discussed the importance of both the quantity and especially the timing of that pressure (most if us were early or late). My guess is Adams probably agrees with that - but talks more about maximizing strengths and tendencies first, whatever they are. I was surprised by Adams' endorsement of lateral movement as a swing type, but maybe I misunderstood. Or maybe if you have a bad back, lateral force is your only choice.

Adams showed a drill crushing a half rubber ball under your left foot to feel ground force which was interesting. Has anyone used this drill successfully? Any other drills for ground pressure?

I'm 75.5" for both, limited shoulder range of motion (injuries), 46" chest, 63 years old. I have always played my best on a relatively high swing plane, feel like it gives me time and space to get my right elbow down in front of me to synch up upper/lower body without getting stuck. Does this "high hands" sort thing usually make sense for my body type? I play +1" shafts so not way bent over. I have a lot of arm lift but also turning hips (now:-) and shoulders - just guard against turning too flat. [Aside: the no turn cast drill has also helped when combined with some focus on right elbow...love the simplicity of that move.] I developed a Matsuyama pause to protect my left labrum - guess that's ok?

> @rmgatl said:

> I just watched part of Adams on GC Swing Expedition. It repeats again tomorrow (9-18) at 5:30 edt. Adams described playing to your natural tendencies and tests for whether you are more naturally a rotator, ground pressure/pusher or lateral mover. I did one of Monte's clinics (also have all his tapes, terrific!) and discovered just how awful my hip action was so we worked on proper hip movement without sliding and that's been my main focus. My guess is Adams probably agrees with that - but talks more about maximizing strengths and tendencies first, whatever they are. I was surprised by Adams' endorsement of lateral movement as a swing type, but maybe I misunderstood. Or maybe if you have a bad back, lateral force is your only choice.

Years ago Mike Adams along with two other instructors wrote two books that based on people's body type and swing characteristics, and the premise was there are some models that fit certain people better than others. _Laws of Golf_ and _Play Better Golf_. From what I recall of the Laws book there are three major categories of players: Leverage, Arc, and Width. From what I recall it advocated rotational movement for the Leverage players (and no lateral), and it advocated lateral (and no rotation) for the Arc players. They are both pretty decent books that you may want to check out if you like what you were hearing from him.

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> The biggest one I see is wingspan to height.

>

>

>

> I’m 6-2 with a 6-0 wingspan. I’ll be more upright and vertical.

>

>

>

> Hogan (I was told) was 5-7 versus 6-0, so he was flatter.

>

>

>

> Upper arm to lower arm ratio.

>

> Position of waist on torso.

>

> Leg length

>

>

>

>

>

> These things also affect things like when the right elbow straightens.

>

>

>

> That’s why copying swings and positions and/or calling position X ideal, a losing battle.

Wish I could like that 25x.

I’m similar to you. 6ft3 with a 6ft 2 wingspan. No where to be but upright. It affords me the ability to stand quite close to the golf ball and have a path that will produce some ridiculously straight shots at times and also easy to move both ways if need be. A 5ft 6 guy can’t do the same in the same way unless he’s playing with junior length clubs bent way upright or something crazy like that.

Thanks Golf Scientist, I remember the Laws book and probably have it in a box somewhere in the basement.

I found an old youtube video for Width (probably what I am). Regarding high/low backswing plane, they measure your forearm to humerus length by folding your arm up by your side while making a thumbs up. My thumb is easily 3 inches above my shoulder which means high hands at the top - which is working for me.

I think they view the Width lateral movement as stemming from two hip pivot points. I suppose if that's it, then it's not really sliding, just rotate back on right hip, bump to left hip and rotate per Monte's and AMG's very important hip motion videos (again, Monte nailed that as my worst swing action).

The Law video prescribes pulling back the right foot a little with toes of both feet pointed out. I suppose the right foot back makes it easier to get depth but they talk about it keeping flex in right knee with a big turn. Perhaps good in the right dose? If Monte's still following this, would be interested to hear his thoughts.

I'll stop here because of too much about my swing quirks vs general discussion. Thanks again.

interesting info. Being 6'2 with a slightly shorten wingspan I've always been more comfortable with an upright swing which allows me to get my hands higher. And the right arm bend at impact like some players have has been extremely tough to get.

I'm 5'9" with wingspan of 6'2" and my swing plane is very flat.