Give Toe Hang to a Face Balanced Putter ?

I can't find many threads about this out there. I'm really not a huge fan of blades, but I do have arc to my stroke. SAM says I need around 45-60* of hang to compliment my stroke. I prefer the look and feel of mallets much more, but there are very few that have this much hang (I know Spider Tour does, but I don't like how it sounds/feels, I owned it).

My solution is to try and give my favorite face balanced mallets some toe hang. I figured it might be as easy and just adding some lead tape to the toe area but I also don't want to change the SW a ton. I read around the internet that changing the amount of bend/offset can have some effects, but I wasn't sure how conclusive that was.

So... Are there ways I can give more toe hang to a mallet without massively effecting SW?

I bought a Bettinardi on BST here. It was a face balanced mid mallet (Queen Bee 6). The original owner sent it to Continental and they added some toe hang. Not sure of the SW impact of it. I believe they tip trimmed it a bit.

Why not just load the toe with lead tape?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but given the different hosels designs, it seems that the spot where the shaft would virtually enter the head also influence the toe hang.

(see post #12 here: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1103009-is-this-a-slight-arc-putter/)

So shortening the "1st bend" of a double bend shaft to make the "virtual insertion point" closer to the heel could add toe hang to your putter.

Keep us updated !

JL

Correct me if I'm wrong, but given the different hosels designs, it seems that the spot where the shaft would virtually enter the head also influence the toe hang.

 

(see post #12 here: http://www.golfwrx.c...ght-arc-putter/)

 

So shortening the "1st bend" of a double bend shaft to make the "virtual insertion point" closer to the heel could add toe hang to your putter.

 

Keep us updated !

 

JL

You are correct

Why not just load the toe with lead tape?

Because that A) may not even work, and B) will potentially add a ton of SW. From the limited amount of stuff I've seen, it won't really work to add enough hang. I need to go from 0* hang, to at least 45*.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but given the different hosels designs, it seems that the spot where the shaft would virtually enter the head also influence the toe hang.

 

(see post #12 here: http://www.golfwrx.c...ght-arc-putter/)

 

So shortening the "1st bend" of a double bend shaft to make the "virtual insertion point" closer to the heel could add toe hang to your putter.

 

Keep us updated !

 

JL

Ah yes, this is exactly what I needed to see.

I'm guessing my local builder could tweak a double bend to give me enough hang. I'm planning on buying an Odyssey 2 ball or Marxman to experiment on to see if this works.

I wonder if an OEM like EVNROLL could do this right from the factory? I'm a huge fan of the ER6 (Ping Ketsch Clone basically, which I liked a lot) but I can't game it because it doesn't have enough toe hang.

First off, Face Balancing is done by shafting the club so that the centerline of the shaft is aligned with the COG plane perpendicular to the face. Bringing the centerline of the shaft heel-ward of that plane will give toe hang.

If the putter has a double bend 90* bore shaft, you can give it toe hang by tipping the shaft. This should be done in small increment and you should dry fit the shaft with a shim to hold it in place to measure the amount of toe hang you have created with each trimming.

If it is a 70-75* bore, toe hang can be attained by bending OR rotating the shaft in the bore. Bending the shaft will also change the lie angle unless two bends of equal proportions are made. Rotating the shaft within the bore will not change the lie angle, but WILL change the amount of offset and the visual look from address.

Also, as already mentioned, adding weight to move the plane toe-ward will give toe hang. But it takes a lot of weight.

BT

^ What about just a single bend shaft, like with EVRNROLL putters? No hosel, just right into the putter head and it goes straight up, then a single bend to whatever lie angle you use. Looking at that chart above... if the bend starts 2'' above the putter head.. then a 1'' tip would give X degree hang I assume. Is there a "formula" for being able to tell how much hang you'd get?

^ What about just a single bend shaft, like with EVRNROLL putters? No hosel, just right into the putter head and it goes straight up, then a single bend to whatever lie angle you use. Looking at that chart above... if the bend starts 2'' above the putter head.. then a 1'' tip would give X degree hang I assume. Is there a "formula" for being able to tell how much hang you'd get?

Yes, that is the correct idea. Tipping would bring that intersect point toward the heel and create hang. Exactly how much is hard to say as it depends on how the head is balanced, heel toe length, etc too. Have never seen a formula personally.

^ What about just a single bend shaft, like with EVRNROLL putters? No hosel, just right into the putter head and it goes straight up, then a single bend to whatever lie angle you use. Looking at that chart above... if the bend starts 2'' above the putter head.. then a 1'' tip would give X degree hang I assume. Is there a "formula" for being able to tell how much hang you'd get?

 

Yes, that is the correct idea. Tipping would bring that intersect point toward the heel and create hang. Exactly how much is hard to say as it depends on how the head is balanced, heel toe length, etc too. Have never seen a formula personally.

I'm in contact with EVNROLL now asking them about it but they told me they don't really offer shaft "alteration" services in their custom options.... but I'm sure if I told them exactly how much to tip, they'd do it. I could start with a 1/2'' tip and see what it gives then go from there.

They also said they are coming out with putters with more hang in March, so we'll see what that's all about.

^ What about just a single bend shaft, like with EVRNROLL putters? No hosel, just right into the putter head and it goes straight up, then a single bend to whatever lie angle you use. Looking at that chart above... if the bend starts 2'' above the putter head.. then a 1'' tip would give X degree hang I assume. Is there a "formula" for being able to tell how much hang you'd get?

 

Yes, that is the correct idea. Tipping would bring that intersect point toward the heel and create hang. Exactly how much is hard to say as it depends on how the head is balanced, heel toe length, etc too. Have never seen a formula personally.

I'm in contact with EVNROLL now asking them about it but they told me they don't really offer shaft "alteration" services in their custom options.... but I'm sure if I told them exactly how much to tip, they'd do it. I could start with a 1/2'' tip and see what it gives then go from there.

 

They also said they are coming out with putters with more hang in March, so we'll see what that's all about.

Any chance they would send you the head/shaft disassembled? It could always be dry-fit that way and temp installed to check the balance. I'm betting of low odds on that due to liability reasons, but I guess it never hurts to ask.

^ What about just a single bend shaft, like with EVRNROLL putters? No hosel, just right into the putter head and it goes straight up, then a single bend to whatever lie angle you use. Looking at that chart above... if the bend starts 2'' above the putter head.. then a 1'' tip would give X degree hang I assume. Is there a "formula" for being able to tell how much hang you'd get?

 

Yes, that is the correct idea. Tipping would bring that intersect point toward the heel and create hang. Exactly how much is hard to say as it depends on how the head is balanced, heel toe length, etc too. Have never seen a formula personally.

I'm in contact with EVNROLL now asking them about it but they told me they don't really offer shaft "alteration" services in their custom options.... but I'm sure if I told them exactly how much to tip, they'd do it. I could start with a 1/2'' tip and see what it gives then go from there.

 

They also said they are coming out with putters with more hang in March, so we'll see what that's all about.

 

 

Any chance they would send you the head/shaft disassembled? It could always be dry-fit that way and temp installed to check the balance. I'm betting of low odds on that due to liability reasons, but I guess it never hurts to ask.

Maybe but then I probably waive any chance of returning the product due to any type of defect.

How would this work with an S bend/double bend shaft? I just bought a cheap Odyssey 2 ball... but if I tip that, don't I lose some, if not all of the offset?

Could I also just pull that shaft and replace with a cheap single bend shaft and tip that one ?

https://www.diamondtour.com/single-bend-putter-shaft-1.html

I bought some lead tape in an attempt to put some toe hang on my face-balanced V line putter. I cut about 2" off the roll and set it on the toe end of the putter while it was balancing. The putter didn't budge. So I set the entire roll on the toe and only got about 20* of hang. I ended up abandoning this method and decided to buy a new putter with some inherent toe hang. I like mallets, have some arc in my swing, so I decided on the TM Ardmore 2 L neck red. I have used it several times now and absolutely love it. Lead tape might not be enough to get the hang you want.

^ What about just a single bend shaft, like with EVRNROLL putters? No hosel, just right into the putter head and it goes straight up, then a single bend to whatever lie angle you use. Looking at that chart above... if the bend starts 2'' above the putter head.. then a 1'' tip would give X degree hang I assume. Is there a "formula" for being able to tell how much hang you'd get?

 

Yes, that is the correct idea. Tipping would bring that intersect point toward the heel and create hang. Exactly how much is hard to say as it depends on how the head is balanced, heel toe length, etc too. Have never seen a formula personally.

I'm in contact with EVNROLL now asking them about it but they told me they don't really offer shaft "alteration" services in their custom options.... but I'm sure if I told them exactly how much to tip, they'd do it. I could start with a 1/2'' tip and see what it gives then go from there.

 

They also said they are coming out with putters with more hang in March, so we'll see what that's all about.

 

 

Any chance they would send you the head/shaft disassembled? It could always be dry-fit that way and temp installed to check the balance. I'm betting of low odds on that due to liability reasons, but I guess it never hurts to ask.

Maybe but then I probably waive any chance of returning the product due to any type of defect.

 

How would this work with an S bend/double bend shaft? I just bought a cheap Odyssey 2 ball... but if I tip that, don't I lose some, if not all of the offset?

 

Could I also just pull that shaft and replace with a cheap single bend shaft and tip that one ?

https://www.diamondt...er-shaft-1.html

I don't have a personal 2-ball to look at, but yes, I think they have a bit of an angled bore so some of the offset would be reduced if you tipped...I think. Would that be something that would effect you? Very hard to say.

Single bend would of course drop the offset, but again, is that a good/bad thing or does it even really make a difference?

The amount of variance you can add to a putter if you really want to is descent IMO. We can get straight shafts, double bends, single bends, full offset, half offset, etc. Golfworks, for example, sells hosel adapters. Want to add a neck to a putter that used to have a double bend shaft in it? It can be done. There's honestly quite a few possible combinations that can be built, a lot depends on the persons ability, what the desires are, and what equipment the person doing the work has.

I bought some lead tape in an attempt to put some toe hang on my face-balanced V line putter. I cut about 2" off the roll and set it on the toe end of the putter while it was balancing. The putter didn't budge. So I set the entire roll on the toe and only got about 20* of hang. I ended up abandoning this method and decided to buy a new putter with some inherent toe hang. I like mallets, have some arc in my swing, so I decided on the TM Ardmore 2 L neck red. I have used it several times now and absolutely love it. Lead tape might not be enough to get the hang you want.

That's a big thing that many don't seem to understand. Same with changing the CG in a driver head, etc. A putter head weights about 350 grams +- depending on type. What's 10 grams of lead tape in terms of a percentage? It's basically nothing. We can't move CG points on any of our clubs significantly using lead tape alone, just takes way too much.

Not a fan of any of those Ardmore's... But yeah I think I'ver discovered by now lead tape isn't going to cut it.

Yes, that is the correct idea. Tipping would bring that intersect point toward the heel and create hang. Exactly how much is hard to say as it depends on how the head is balanced, heel toe length, etc too. Have never seen a formula personally.

I'm in contact with EVNROLL now asking them about it but they told me they don't really offer shaft "alteration" services in their custom options.... but I'm sure if I told them exactly how much to tip, they'd do it. I could start with a 1/2'' tip and see what it gives then go from there.

 

They also said they are coming out with putters with more hang in March, so we'll see what that's all about.

 

 

Any chance they would send you the head/shaft disassembled? It could always be dry-fit that way and temp installed to check the balance. I'm betting of low odds on that due to liability reasons, but I guess it never hurts to ask.

Maybe but then I probably waive any chance of returning the product due to any type of defect.

 

How would this work with an S bend/double bend shaft? I just bought a cheap Odyssey 2 ball... but if I tip that, don't I lose some, if not all of the offset?

 

Could I also just pull that shaft and replace with a cheap single bend shaft and tip that one ?

https://www.diamondt...er-shaft-1.html

 

I don't have a personal 2-ball to look at, but yes, I think they have a bit of an angled bore so some of the offset would be reduced if you tipped...I think. Would that be something that would effect you? Very hard to say.

 

Single bend would of course drop the offset, but again, is that a good/bad thing or does it even really make a difference?

 

The amount of variance you can add to a putter if you really want to is descent IMO. We can get straight shafts, double bends, single bends, full offset, half offset, etc. Golfworks, for example, sells hosel adapters. Want to add a neck to a putter that used to have a double bend shaft in it? It can be done. There's honestly quite a few possible combinations that can be built, a lot depends on the persons ability, what the desires are, and what equipment the person doing the work has.

I believe the single bend EVNROLL has a 75* angled bore, so with that particular one, I shouldn't really lose much if any offset. With a 90* double bend, yes I'd probably lose a bunch of offset. Personally, the most I like to see if half shaft, I hate the look of full shaft offset.

As far as Im concerned, offset has more to do with looks and how much shaft lean you like to put at address. Otherwise I'm not sure it has a massive impact (unlike maybe on an iron where it would have some input into ball flight).

^ What about just a single bend shaft, like with EVRNROLL putters? No hosel, just right into the putter head and it goes straight up, then a single bend to whatever lie angle you use. Looking at that chart above... if the bend starts 2'' above the putter head.. then a 1'' tip would give X degree hang I assume. Is there a "formula" for being able to tell how much hang you'd get?

You seem to be describing a 90* bore with single bend, no offset shaft setup. If so, Tipping will move the shaft centerline towards the heel and create toe hang. Remember to go slowly.

If the bend is angled towards the face to give some offset or bring the shaft centerline nearer the face, things get much more complicated. There are tons of variations with bores and shaft bends and that makes it difficult for someone to say exactly how it should be done without having the putter in front of them.

Basically, anything you can do to move the shaft centerline towards the heel will do the job though.

BT

I think EVNROLL has 75* bore angle, so you end up with 1/2 shaft offset.

I'm going to see if my local buddy who tinkers might have experience... Odds are I'm not going to tinker on a $360 putter, but I'll mess with my $60 white ice 2 ball which has a 90* bore S bend.