TM Twist Face Rumor

JStangJStang Members Posts: 2,387 ✭✭
I saw on Twitter this morning that Mark Crossfield heard a rumor that the M3's and M4's on tour do not have the Twist Face technology. Now, Mark is a little (ok a lot) bitter with TM since they stopped sending him product to review but has anyone else heard anything about this?



F9 Rogue Fairway | 915H 2 & 3 | 718 CBVokey SM6 52, 58Byron Morgan DH89
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Comments

  • osubuckeyes691osubuckeyes691 Members Posts: 901 ✭✭
    If that were the case I believe they would have to be listed on the USGA conforming list and they are not so I would say it isn't true.
    Taylormade M3 8.5* - Tensei Pro Orange 70TX / Cobra F9 9* Avalance - Fujikura Ventus 7x
    Taylormade 2016 M2 Deep Face 14* - Tensei Blue 90TX
    Hybrid / Driving Iron - TBD
    Srixon 745 4-PW - KBS C Taper 130x softstepped 1x
    Vokey 50* F Grind - KBS C Taper 130
    Vokey Wedgeworks 54V grind - KBS C Taper 130
    Vokey Wedgeworks 60K, low bounce - KBS C Taper 130
    Evnroll ER1.2 Armlock w/ Stability Shaft
  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,118 ✭✭
    ...or they fooled us all and there's no twist face on any drivers?!?!?!



    *clearly this is tongue and cheek

    2017 Tour Issue M1 460 / 9.2* / Rogue 130 Silver 70TX tipped 1"
    Epic Flash SZ / 3+ / DF 70TX tipped 1.50"
    Epic Flash / 5 / BF 90TX Tipped 1.75"
    785 / 3-PW / PX 7.0
    RTX4 / 52, 59 / DG S400
    SC Kombi-s / 35.5"

  • Hot Rod 71Hot Rod 71 #TheWRX ClubWRX, BST Volunteer Mods Posts: 8,847 ClubWRX
    edited Feb 12, 2018 #4
    TaylorMade tour players rarely use the same drivers sold at retail. This is nothing new.



    A quick check of the conforming list will reveal the truth.



    Edit: I checked the USGA Conforming List and all of the M3/4 drivers listed have Twist Face. (pp. 1127-1128). The list is dated effective February 12, 2018. In generations past it was common to see several versions of a TM driver (V2, V3, V4, etc.). These were normally the tour heads.



    https://www.usga.org...gClubList_M.pdf
    PING G400 LS 9* - Graphite Design Tour AD TP 6X
    Callaway Epic 15* - Diamana S+ 70X
    Callaway Apex 20* - Diamana S+ 80X
    PXG Gen1 0311T - DGTI AMT S400
    Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 - DGTI S400
    Yes! Jenny Tour
    Titleist Pro V1 Yellow
  • TaylorMadeLuvTaylorMadeLuv Posts: 602 ✭✭
    Might be worst thread I have seen on here. Literally. Having measured multiple tour issue heads I can tell you this is fake news.



    It’s similar to the Callaway Rep trying to tell us that indoor monitors won’t measure twist face dispersion and to only fit off “ball speed.”
    New Bag in the making...
  • avg_josephavg_joseph Posts: 486 ✭✭
    Doesn't appear to have multiple heads on conforming list beyond the models that have been released at retail...
  • thesaxemachinethesaxemachine Hello, friends... Posts: 433 ✭✭
    Surprising that if this is so easily verified w/ USGA list that Crossfield would say anything. Unless he suspects there's a conspiracy.



    Semi-related question: How often, if ever, are tour pro's clubs inspected to see if they are "conforming'?
    Rogue SZ w/ Tour AD GP
    M1 w/ Diamana Thump
    GAPR w/ KBS Tour Proto
    Srixon Z-765 w/ PX LZ
    Vokey 46° 50° 54°
    Hi-Toe 58°
    Bobby Grace Tour Diamond 3
  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,118 ✭✭


    Surprising that if this is so easily verified w/ USGA list that Crossfield would say anything. Unless he suspects there's a conspiracy.



    Semi-related question: How often, if ever, are tour pro's clubs inspected to see if they are "conforming'?
    they're inspected prior to building on the tour van - thus the "+" marks hosels on TM drivers.

    2017 Tour Issue M1 460 / 9.2* / Rogue 130 Silver 70TX tipped 1"
    Epic Flash SZ / 3+ / DF 70TX tipped 1.50"
    Epic Flash / 5 / BF 90TX Tipped 1.75"
    785 / 3-PW / PX 7.0
    RTX4 / 52, 59 / DG S400
    SC Kombi-s / 35.5"

  • tbowles411tbowles411 ClubWRX Posts: 25,061 ✭✭
    I think the operative word is, "rumor". Crossfield is playing with a bit of fire IMO.
    **Bag Construction in Progress**
    Mizuno ST190 G 9.5 (Lofted to 10)
    Mizuno ST190 3TS
    Mizuno CLK 2 Hybrid
    Mizuno Fli-Hi 4 Iron Replacement
    Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal (5-PW)
    Mizuno S18 Wedges - Blue Ion (50-7, 54-12, 58-16, 62-8)
    Scotty Cameron Phantom X12
    PING Vault 2.0 Craz-E **Backup**
  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 6,213 ✭✭
    it is interesting that since the beginning of the year. the two biggest ( ok, two biggest i know of) club reviewers and product testers for golf on youtube have gone totally different directions. Rick seems to be trying to be more thorough and technical in his approach and delivery, and Mark seems to be trying to be more and more a comedian.
    Driver: Callaway Epic SubZero 9*, Fujikura Ventus 7X
    Fairway: NIKE VAPOR 13*
    3-4 IRON: MIZZY MP18MMC FLIHI
    5-9 IRONS: MP5 DG AMT X100
    WEDGES; CLEVELAND RTX4: 48, 53, 58, 64
    PUTTER; RIFE Cayman
    BALL; various, ask me that day.
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,167 ✭✭
    gioguy21 wrote:



    Surprising that if this is so easily verified w/ USGA list that Crossfield would say anything. Unless he suspects there's a conspiracy.



    Semi-related question: How often, if ever, are tour pro's clubs inspected to see if they are "conforming'?
    they're inspected prior to building on the tour van - thus the "+" marks hosels on TM drivers.




    Inspected by TM employees or inspected by USGA officials? I would imagine that self policing this would inevitably end up in cheating. Sadly...human nature.



    I’m not being accusatory, just curious as to how, when, and how often heads actually get checked by someone from the USGA or the tour.

    Random spot checking maybe? Perhaps NEVER once they’re on the approved list? I have no idea.. just throwing it out there.
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,118 ✭✭
    edited Feb 12, 2018 #12

    gioguy21 wrote:



    Surprising that if this is so easily verified w/ USGA list that Crossfield would say anything. Unless he suspects there's a conspiracy.



    Semi-related question: How often, if ever, are tour pro's clubs inspected to see if they are "conforming'?
    they're inspected prior to building on the tour van - thus the "+" marks hosels on TM drivers.




    Inspected by TM employees or inspected by USGA officials? I would imagine that self policing this would inevitably end up in cheating. Sadly...human nature.



    I’m not being accusatory, just curious as to how, when, and how often heads actually get checked by someone from the USGA or the tour.

    Random spot checking maybe? Perhaps NEVER once they’re on the approved list? I have no idea.. just throwing it out there.
    that i don't honestly know. the + sign is put on if it passes COR testing (under the legal limit)

    2017 Tour Issue M1 460 / 9.2* / Rogue 130 Silver 70TX tipped 1"
    Epic Flash SZ / 3+ / DF 70TX tipped 1.50"
    Epic Flash / 5 / BF 90TX Tipped 1.75"
    785 / 3-PW / PX 7.0
    RTX4 / 52, 59 / DG S400
    SC Kombi-s / 35.5"

  • MiddlerMiddler Posts: 366
    Pros hit closer to center way more than almost any of us, so they wouldn’t need to avoid the twist face. They’re not going to hit the high toe or low heel like most of us. So TM wouldn’t have to build special club face geometry for their pros.
    CALLAWAY Rogue 10.5° & 3W 15°
    MIZUNO CLK 3 Hybrid 19°
    MIZUNO JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10 & 60.06
    EVNROLL ER2
    SNELL MTB Black
    OGIO Silencer
  • dave_3dave_3 Posts: 93
    i wouldn't listen to a word that t** says. I'm ashamed to share nationality with him
  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members Posts: 7,109 ✭✭


    It's similar to the Callaway Rep trying to tell us that indoor monitors won't measure twist face dispersion and to only fit off "ball speed."




    If indoors on a doppler unit, there is truth to that.
    TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
    Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
    Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • dwbostondwboston Lefty Boomers Posts: 2,318 ✭✭
    I'm no TM fan, but this is right up there with Tom Wishon claiming he was told that the adapter sleeves on adjustable drivers on Tour are fake, and provide no adjustment.



    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/823507-a-technical-discussion-and-report-on-adjustable-hoseladjustable-sole-piece-drivers-in-the-modern-golf-equipment-industry/page__st__90#entry6813861
    Titleist 917 D2 10.5*, GD AD DI 7S | Titleist 915F 16.5*, GD AD DI 8S | Titleist 915 H 21*, GD AD DI 105S
    Bridgestone J15 CB, 4-PW, Recoil Proto 125 F4 | Vokey SM6 52.08F | Vokey SM6 56.10S | Vokey SM7 60.12D
    Bettinardi BB0 Flow, 34"/350g
  • PatsNationPatsNation Posts: 1,490 ✭✭
    and thread should just be shut down
  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members Posts: 7,109 ✭✭
    dwboston wrote:


    I'm no TM fan, but this is right up there with Tom Wishon claiming he was told that the adapter sleeves on adjustable drivers on Tour are fake, and provide no adjustment.



    http://www.golfwrx.c...90#entry6813861




    Some of them were. I have a few that have no offset.
    TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
    Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
    Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • bcflyguy1bcflyguy1 Enjoying my coffee... Members Posts: 3,012 ✭✭
    Crossfield really has lost the plot over this TM nonsense. He continues to beat this dead horse to his own detriment.
    Never forget that the luxury of being
    wrong is not enough to make you right.
    WITB Link
  • JStangJStang Members Posts: 2,387 ✭✭
    edited Feb 12, 2018 #20
    To clarify, I'm not trying to stir the pot here. I am just relaying what I read from a well known figure in the golf industry.
    F9 Rogue Fairway | 915H 2 & 3 | 718 CBVokey SM6 52, 58Byron Morgan DH89
  • TexasCarlosTexasCarlos Unregistered Posts: 861 ✭✭
    edited Feb 12, 2018 #21
    Crossfield is salty about TM not sending him anything, Mark just trying to stir the pot. Twistface really isn't detrimental to a professional. Crossfield always bashes tech and features simply because he likes to pander to the people that watch his videos and hardly understand what to look for in a club.
    G400 LST
    TM SLDR TS
    Apex UT 18'
    Apex MB 18'
    RTX 2.0 Raw
    Ping Anser Milled
  • HiSpeed48HiSpeed48 Members Posts: 2,101 ✭✭
    Keyword is "rumor"
    Titleist 910D2 9.5* Tour Issue
    TEE XCG7 15*
    Srixon Z545 4-PW
    Vokey SM6 46* 50* 54* 58*
    John Byron DaleHead 2
  • cvhookem63cvhookem63 Fujikura Ventus Experience ETXClubWRX Posts: 4,666 ClubWRX
    It is humorous that his go to partner for this nonsense is **** who also feels slighted by TM.
    WITB Link
    TaylorMade M3 440 9* Fujikura Speeder 857 TR-X
    NIKE Vapor Fly 14* Fujikura Rombax P95X
    NIKE Vapor Fly Pro 3-4 Fujikura Pro 95 Tour Spec X
    TaylorMade P770 5-9 X100
    NIKE OVEN Engage 46* X100 | Engage 50*SS / 55*SS / 60*DS S400
    SCOTTY CAMERON Select Squareback
  • KonkliferKonklifer Thinkin' of a master plan... location, location.Members Posts: 7,802 ✭✭
    What a bonehead move when it could easily be fact checked on the conforming list.
    PING G400 Max 10°
    PING G400 16.5°
    PING G400 hybrid 19°
    PING i25 hybrid 22°
    Callaway XHP 5-AW
    PING Glide 2.0 Stealth, 54° SS, 58° ES
    Kevin Burns 9306
    Snell MTB Red Optic Yellow
  • pacobanuelospacobanuelos Members Posts: 30
    Doesn't the conforming list gets published every monday, yet to see today's
    TM M2 9* Aldila 70X
    TM P790 UDI - X100
    Mizuno JPX 900T 4-PW - X100 +.5
    Titleist 50F08, 54S10, 58M08 -S400 (64 in)
  • JStangJStang Members Posts: 2,387 ✭✭


    Crossfield is salty about TM not sending him anything, Mark just trying to stir the pot. Twistface really isn't detrimental to a professional. Crossfield always bashes tech and features simply because he likes to pander to the people that watch his videos and hardly understand what to look for in a club.




    I must say that his approach isn't going to get him back on TM's good side. He's made his bed with them...
    F9 Rogue Fairway | 915H 2 & 3 | 718 CBVokey SM6 52, 58Byron Morgan DH89
  • bullie76bullie76 Posts: 2,171 ✭✭
    I doubt TM will ever send him clubs to review after posts like this on Twitter.
    My senior bag.......
    Taylormade M2(2016) 9.5* driver reg
    Taylormade RBZ 13* 3 wood reg
    Adams TL2 - FW 16* 4 wood & 3,4 hybrids reg
    Ping G 6-pw(power lofts), i200 U wedge(49*).....CFS graphite reg
    Ping Glide 54/58 ss reg
    Ping Craz-E putter
  • scratchswingerscratchswinger Members Posts: 16,187 ✭✭
    At the end of the day Twist Face or any other gimmick is not going to change your score on the course....
  • Smitty120Smitty120 MDMembers Posts: 437 ✭✭
    And here we go ........... image/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

    M6 - ACCRA TZ6 M5

    M3 HL - Tensei Pro White 80TX

    P790 3 - ADDI 95X

    P760 4, P730 5-PW - X-100 Tour

    MG Raw 52,58 - S-400 Tour

    Toulon Garage Atlanta

    TP5X

  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 6,213 ✭✭
    seems to me though that he wouldn't be making this up. There is currently a lot of risk for him to make up something, He tagged some other reputable equipment testers looking to get an answer to the question. I would say that he is legitimately asking. just comes across wrong because of his ongoing beef with TM and his current persona. Also, as a person that "appears' to try and be at the forefront of golf equipment knowledge, that he would know what resources were available to verify before reaching out to secondary sources.
    Driver: Callaway Epic SubZero 9*, Fujikura Ventus 7X
    Fairway: NIKE VAPOR 13*
    3-4 IRON: MIZZY MP18MMC FLIHI
    5-9 IRONS: MP5 DG AMT X100
    WEDGES; CLEVELAND RTX4: 48, 53, 58, 64
    PUTTER; RIFE Cayman
    BALL; various, ask me that day.
  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,118 ✭✭
    timeline (yes, leaving out some other 'fluff' - but sticking to the important notes):



    - signs with titleist

    - doesn't get testing equipment from TM

    - posts an attempt at humor youtube video about how he didn't get what he wanted

    - posts a 'rumor' of TM clubs on twitter



    hmm...since he's assuming it's true, can we assume that crossfield could be arrogant enough, or paid to badmouth TM since signing with Titleist?

    2017 Tour Issue M1 460 / 9.2* / Rogue 130 Silver 70TX tipped 1"
    Epic Flash SZ / 3+ / DF 70TX tipped 1.50"
    Epic Flash / 5 / BF 90TX Tipped 1.75"
    785 / 3-PW / PX 7.0
    RTX4 / 52, 59 / DG S400
    SC Kombi-s / 35.5"

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