TM Twist Face Rumor

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  • soflasofla Members Posts: 1,654 ✭✭
    I heard an additional rumor that when TaylorMade gets done with Parsons they're going to sue Crossfield.
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  • Double GeeDouble Gee Members Posts: 1,081 ✭✭
    DFS PFD wrote:


    I see a lawsuit in Crossfield's future if this behavior continues.




    Why? He states a rumour.

    Also TM have a history of different types of clubs; like their Miura irons with TM logos.



  • Ping ZingsPing Zings Members Posts: 833 ✭✭
    Sounds like when Micheal Breed talked bad about k-sig. Hmm, he is a Titleist drone also.
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,250 ✭✭
    edited Feb 12, 2018 #95
    Double Gee wrote:

    DFS PFD wrote:


    I see a lawsuit in Crossfield's future if this behavior continues.




    Why? He states a rumour.

    Also TM have a history of different types of clubs; like their Miura irons with TM logos.


    Anybody can sue any one, for any reason, at pretty much any time. Pretty weak case but I'm guessing they would try for libel or something if people starting saying they wouldn't bu, or they'd return and demand refunds because of this (or opt to buy another brand instead).



    Maybe an actual lawyer here could chime in as I am not one, so just making an assumption here.



    However, imagine the total sh!it storm he'd cause even if TM sent him a cease and desist. He'd go alllll over Twitter and YT saying look at big ol TM trying to keep little ol innocent MC down. He's trying to drag them down to his level and if they do go there, it probably won't help them.
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  • vanillafunk616vanillafunk616 Members Posts: 552 ✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:

    Double Gee wrote:

    DFS PFD wrote:


    I see a lawsuit in Crossfield's future if this behavior continues.




    Why? He states a rumour.

    Also TM have a history of different types of clubs; like their Miura irons with TM logos.


    Anybody can sue any one, for any reason, at pretty much any time. Pretty weak case but I'm guessing they would try for libel or something if people starting saying they wouldn't bu, or they'd return and demand refunds because of this (or opt to buy another brand instead).



    Maybe an actual lawyer here could chime in as I am not one, so just making an assumption here.



    However, imagine the total sh!it storm he'd cause even if TM sent him a cease and desist. He'd go alllll over Twitter and YT saying look at big ol TM trying to keep little ol innocent MC down. He's trying to drag them down to his level and if they do go there, it probably won't help them.




    I mean I wish there was some sort of way to hold people accountable online, but these cases are notoriously difficult to prove. Tm would have to prove the statement was false, malicious in intent, and was proximate cause of the loss of business.
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,250 ✭✭
    False seems to be easy to prove... Loss of business due to the statement, pretty tough and intent, even tougher. Plus...It's not like he's some big company could afford to get sued for thousands and thousands of dollars. What is TM going to do... Repo his house and car? (semi serious question actually)
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  • fillwelixfillwelix Members Posts: 1,226 ✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    False seems to be easy to prove... Loss of business due to the statement, pretty tough and intent, even tougher. Plus...It's not like he's some big company could afford to get sued for thousands and thousands of dollars. What is TM going to do... Repo his house and car? (semi serious question actually)




    Falsity of statement: Definitely easy to prove

    Loss of Business: Doable, but not easy (getting screenshots of people responding to MC saying they won't buy as a result of MC's tweet?)

    Malicious Intent: This might be actually doable, given Mark's weird video about TM not sending him toys to play with
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  • GoIrish17GoIrish17 Members Posts: 5,594 ✭✭
    It seems that even in this thread, brand bias colors a lot of people's opinions on the matter- those that have a bag full of TM gear are defensive, and those with no TM in their sig are quick to call this another example of TM being deceptive. Which is why Crossfield (and others) can post things like this and see the value in it. Folks are talking about him here now; whether it's because they agree, disagree, or think he's a horses a**, he sees people talking about him as a net positive, regardless of what they're saying. Clicks equal money to this guy.



    It's this reason that **** seems to have become more of a click bait and SHOCKING! IN YOUR FACE! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! website nowadays. They got a taste of how controversial subjects and going against the grain can result in exposure through the Kirkland v. ProV1 saga. People who wanted to believe what **** was selling had no desire to notice the heavy confirmation bias in their "experiments". I mean, they posted a hand-drawn, stick figure level art "diagram" to demonstrate the results of their EVNROLL experiment recently, that literally showed the EVNROLL putter made the ball curve towards the hole.



    Basically, I don't even think these outlets such as Crossfield and **** even care what they are saying or how accurate it is anymore. As long as it's against the grain and generates page views, that's the only thing that matters to them. Making it a brand thing evokes strong emotions from those that are invested in that brand, whether negatively or positively, which in turn creates debate and page hits for them. TM haters arguing with TM lovers on Crossfield's Twitter timeline only serves to get his page trending and get people clicking.
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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,250 ✭✭
    The tough part about law is it's all grey: How can I (if I was a judge) tell MC isn't just being a silly little **** and trying to get some retweets and follows vice literally trying to get less people to buy their drivers.



    All in all, probably a bad idea for TM to engage. Would just fuel the MC fire. He needs to just do his vlogs with his lads and move on with life. Could potentially end badly if TM takes the bait.
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  • ignitewvuignitewvu Members Posts: 2,054 ✭✭
    The more Mark gets Airtime the more I dislike him.



    We all know he dislikes TM now he's spreading rumors the day M3's & 4's start shipping.
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  • From_Parts_UnknownFrom_Parts_Unknown Members Posts: 1,801 ✭✭
    I will say that I wish the twist face was adjustable or maybe offer a version without it.
  • Double GeeDouble Gee Members Posts: 1,081 ✭✭
    ignitewvu wrote:


    The more Mark gets Airtime the more I dislike him.



    We all know he dislikes TM now he's spreading rumors the day M3's & 4's start shipping.




    Each to their own I guess. I thoroughly enjoy all his stuff and loathe TM after the disgusting way they treated me.
  • benclabbenclab golfn702 Members Posts: 1,625 ✭✭
    edited Feb 12, 2018 #104
    Fake news!



    Crossfield has had it out for TM since the 2016 M1 because he got his late. He did a lot of ranting and crying videos and a lot of drunken posts on FB.
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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,713 ✭✭
    Double Gee wrote:

    DFS PFD wrote:


    I see a lawsuit in Crossfield's future if this behavior continues.




    Why? He states a rumour.

    Also TM have a history of different types of clubs; like their Miura irons with TM logos.




    When Miura made their irons Miura was a supplier to OEMs. They didn’t sell their own clubs. Miura made clubs for a ton of OEMs just like Endo(Epon) does today. There’s nothing shady as all OEM manufacturers have their designs made by a third party factory, some of which also sell their own clubs.
  • DFS PFDDFS PFD Members Posts: 870 ✭✭


    Why is everyone hating so hard on **** recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.




    Evident bias, and using their donors money to open in other markets for clubs they already test. Ping and Evnroll must own ****. IMO (I'm sure someone will correct me.)
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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,713 ✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:

    SwooshLT wrote:

    Z1ggy16 wrote:




    I unfollowed MC on twitter.




    lol that'll show him



    But yeah, unfollowed him on all social media a while ago as well. Every single review was exactly the same.


    Not defending him, but what do you expect? Distances aren't changing... MOI can only go so far... The story is the same year after year. He's just more open about it. RS will act like there's all this new stuff going on, when the answer is always simple: Go get fit and find out what you need for yourself. Minor changes in looks, feel, sound can matter but it's totally subjective and down to the individual.




    These are facts.....but if you can get fit with a plethora of shafts to try, there is distance and consistency to be gained!


    Yeah due to optimizing the shaft mostly.



    I went from a Tensei Blue in my M2 and only changing shaft to a speeder evo ii, gained like 10mph ball speed and probably .08 on smash factor. Changing head with the same shaft might have gained me .01 smash and 2mph speed. Putting a new head on my new shaft might then only gain me 1mph speed from there, and .005 on smash (basically, negligible). I know it's anecdote, but I literally just experienced this last week.



    Forgiveness certainly could go up say between my current M2 and a G400, but I'm not going to get measurable differences taking 10 swings. Maybe over the course of 500+ swings during a season, I could see some changes in FIR or total distance.




    No shaft is adding 10mph ballspeed. You simply hit it more solid. Which is where smash factor increase came from. To see that large a jump you had to be hitting it WAY off center
  • BForresterBForrester Unregistered Posts: 1,261
    Crossfield is losing a ton of my respect with his recent antics. I already unsubscribed from his channel when he signed an endorsement deal because I only ever watched his reviews...I could give a crap less about his on-course v-logs and whatnot.
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  • Double GeeDouble Gee Members Posts: 1,081 ✭✭
    iteachgolf wrote:

    Double Gee wrote:

    DFS PFD wrote:


    I see a lawsuit in Crossfield's future if this behavior continues.




    Why? He states a rumour.

    Also TM have a history of different types of clubs; like their Miura irons with TM logos.




    When Miura made their irons Miura was a supplier to OEMs. They didn’t sell their own clubs. Miura made clubs for a ton of OEMs just like Endo(Epon) does today. There’s nothing shady as all OEM manufacturers have their designs made by a third party factory, some of which also sell their own clubs.




    I understand all that. However, those club's were never available to buy to the general public certainly not from any TM supplier here in the UK.

    So, when I watch Sergio's clubs and thought how great they were, they were not what was available to me. Deception in which way you want to look at it.
  • awtryau89awtryau89 Members Posts: 1,206 ✭✭


    Why is everyone hating so hard on **** recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.




    I with you here. I see their chippiness sometimes but a TM Driver has been in their top 3 that last few years. I don't think their bias goes beyond altering their "data". I have seen them in good conversations with Arnett and agree with both parties on the custom fit/off the shelf argument. Their tests are a good indicator and while everyone should be fit, probably less than 10% are so their data is apples to apples in that regard. As for the Evnroll stuff, their tech works. Its proven in a controlled environment. Most greens are not that same environment but I would rather start with their face and have the chance for it to work than not. I currently putt with an Odyssey so I'm not as much of a fanboy but I will be soon after a fitting with their new stuff.
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,575 ✭✭


    cvhookem63 wrote:



    Why is everyone hating so hard on **** recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.




    I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...




    Gotcha. I definitely agree they don't use the correct terminology all the time but I do have a hard time believing they're "in bed" with Evnroll or any other manufacturer after how steadfast they have been that they will never ever be compensated for reviews. Just seems like if it were ever confirmed that their entire site would be discredited in about 10 seconds haha.



    I do love the Tech vs. No Tech test they say they are doing though! Lamb vs. Evnroll. IDGAF who wins but I am surely going to love seeing the responses in the forums hahaha.




    I used to follow MC & **** but to be honest, it's all just noise to me. The only way to tell what club is "most wanted" or gets me my 262 yards is to hit it. Anyone buying a club based on internet reviews deserves the poor results they get from not doing their own testing.




    This advice is gold.
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  • BubbtubbsBubbtubbs Members Posts: 391 ✭✭
    I'm not sure why this is even worth caring about.
  • GoIrish17GoIrish17 Members Posts: 5,594 ✭✭
    Bubbtubbs wrote:


    I'm not sure why this is even worth caring about.




    And yet, ironically, you cared enough to take time out of your day to post. It's not like someone posted about guitars or motorcycles here- it's a golf website, people talk about golf stuff here. It's also voluntary to post. Sorry you missed all this in orientation.
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  • tomuch23tomuch23 WIMembers Posts: 544 ✭✭
    Screw **** and the horse they rode in on. When they were taking all the credit for the Kirkland hype I simply pointed out to them on Twitter that WRX had a 1000 page thread on it already. Boom I got blocked by all them over there lol. That's all I said honestly. Anyways I stopped following Crossfield after his crap a few months ago. He's simply taking another cheap shot at tmag and hoping it sticks.
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,645 ✭✭



    I unfollowed MC on twitter.




    lol that'll show him



    But yeah, unfollowed him on all social media a while ago as well. Every single review was exactly the same.




    I never have been a fan of any reviews from any of the reviewers on YouTube. They seem like good guys, but their reviews are really an exercise in futility. That's why I prefer what The Golf Lab with Liam Mucklow (and Carson Hau) is doing. They measured the exact driver head dimensions, including the exact locations of the CoG and gave the head dimensions on video between the M1 and the M3. They moved the weights all the way up front and all the way back and showed how that changed the CoG. Then they had Mucklow hit a bunch of balls on GEARS with each head and changed the weight locations using the same shaft.



    The reviews Shiels, Crossfield, etc. do are really purely subjective such as how the club looks and feels to them. Even Shiels did one where he goes into how much he hates the name 'Epic.' The only somewhat objective data is the results using a launch monitor, but that's not really the most objective data.



    The Golf Lab's video was largely objective data showing the difference between the CoG's in the M1 vs. the M3, how the CoG changes when they move the weights around and the resulting differences in carry distance and ball speed. As well as how the loft and face angle varies depending where they measure on the face.



    The only thing advantage Shiels/Crossfield type of reviews have is that they can do more reviews because it takes much more work to do it the way the Golf Lab did it. Also, The Golf Lab charges $13 for their video. Hopefully, they adjust the price point on future videos. But, it's a far more informative way to do equipment reviews.













    RH
  • Nixhex524Nixhex524 ClubWRX Posts: 4,006 ClubWRX
    MC, winning again.



    Lmao at how hateful people are around here, too, talking lawsuits and crap... too funny.



    You want to stick it to MC, go buy a M3/4 and really support TM!!



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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,645 ✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    Anybody can sue any one, for any reason, at pretty much any time. Pretty weak case but I'm guessing they would try for libel or something if people starting saying they wouldn't bu, or they'd return and demand refunds because of this (or opt to buy another brand instead).



    Maybe an actual lawyer here could chime in as I am not one, so just making an assumption here.



    However, imagine the total sh!it storm he'd cause even if TM sent him a cease and desist. He'd go alllll over Twitter and YT saying look at big ol TM trying to keep little ol innocent MC down. He's trying to drag them down to his level and if they do go there, it probably won't help them.




    I'm not an attorney, but I have been peripherally involved with a couple of defamation and slander/libel cases.



    Most people don't understand how hard it is to win these cases. Essentially, the defendant is considered innocent until proven guilty and then you have to meet certain criteria.



    I think in this case, the issue that a lawsuit from TM would have is that Mark state that he heard a 'rumour' that this was true and was asking to see what everybody else heard. This is why you hear broadcasters state that somebody going to trial for a criminal offense is 'allegedly' committed the offense...it's done to avoid potential defamation lawsuits.



    I will say that...and I'm just guessing here...that if Mark continued to post these 'rumours', then TaylorMade could have a case as long as they show some proof that it hurt their sales. Even then, Crossfield's attorneys could argue that the sales were hurt by some other factor. In the end, nothing would likely come from it, but Crossfield would have to pay his attorney's fees and essentially that would get him to stop doing that because he cannot afford to keep having to pay for attorneys.















    RH
  • Sean2Sean2 #TheWRX (Callaway Trip) Members Posts: 30,826 ✭✭
    Crossfield is just capitalizing on the new media...you know, make something up, present it as news, it then gets disproved, but too late...people will go on believing the original story.



    ps: his source was a former operative for the SVR.
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  • Yanki01Yanki01 TEXASMembers Posts: 6,035 ✭✭
    GoIrish17 wrote:

    Bubbtubbs wrote:


    I'm not sure why this is even worth caring about.




    And yet, ironically, you cared enough to take time out of your day to post. It's not like someone posted about guitars or motorcycles here- it's a golf website, people talk about golf stuff here. It's also voluntary to post. Sorry you missed all this in orientation.




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  • BubbtubbsBubbtubbs Members Posts: 391 ✭✭
    edited Feb 12, 2018 #120
    GoIrish17 wrote:

    Bubbtubbs wrote:


    I'm not sure why this is even worth caring about.




    And yet, ironically, you cared enough to take time out of your day to post. It's not like someone posted about guitars or motorcycles here- it's a golf website, people talk about golf stuff here. It's also voluntary to post. Sorry you missed all this in orientation.


    I read the thread expecting to find something interesting or at least a discussion.



    Instead it's a bunch of pictures from Twitter (which itself is a waste of time) and people bashing/defending various YouTube personalities.



    I guess I'm not allowed to express disappointment? Even when typing took a mere fraction of the time spent slogging through the thread?
  • golfgirlrobingolfgirlrobin Members Posts: 2,306 ✭✭



    I unfollowed MC on twitter.




    lol that'll show him



    But yeah, unfollowed him on all social media a while ago as well. Every single review was exactly the same.




    I’m going to keep watching until I figure out what it is that he finds so **** funny.
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