Project X hand crafted vs non hand crafted

Hello- I know there are other threads on this but they seem to be very old. Figured I'd start a new one that's a little different.

I want lower handicaps to be aware that TM is still putting 'made for' shafts from China in their drivers. These shafts cost probably $7 to produce compared to the real versions which sell for $300. And there is nothing on the shafts that say "made exclusively for..." like on older TM and titleist drivers.

A while back I ordered an M2 with a speeder 757 X. The club shipped to me and felt like a telephone pole. Come to find out it was tipped 1 inch (which is fine, its my fault for not looking into this).

I replaced it with a Project X HZRDUS 6.5 yellow. The black one with yellow lettering not the handcrafted ( didnt know this until after i got the shaft).

This has to be the worst shaft I have ever played. The butt and tip is so incredibly soft for a 6.5 that I cannot hit one drive without it being an overpowered smother-hook or a ball that starts straight and mysteriously cuts 15 yards to the right.

No, its not me, I'm a 5 hcp and my 3 wood goes straight 8 out of 10 times.

Lesson learned, just wanted people to be very careful when purchasing drivers/shafts from TM.

Hello- I know there are other threads on this but they seem to be very old. Figured I'd start a new one that's a little different.

 

I want lower handicaps to be aware that TM is still putting 'made for' shafts from China in their drivers. These shafts cost probably $7 to produce compared to the real versions which sell for $300. And there is nothing on the shafts that say "made exclusively for..." like on older TM and titleist drivers.

 

A while back I ordered an M2 with a speeder 757 X. The club shipped to me and felt like a telephone pole. Come to find out it was tipped 1 inch (which is fine, its my fault for not looking into this).

 

I replaced it with a Project X HZRDUS 6.5 yellow. The black one with yellow lettering not the handcrafted ( didnt know this until after i got the shaft).

 

This has to be the worst shaft I have ever played. The butt and tip is so incredibly soft for a 6.5 that I cannot hit one drive without it being an overpowered smother-hook or a ball that starts straight and mysteriously cuts 15 yards to the right.

 

No, its not me, I'm a 5 hcp and my 3 wood goes straight 8 out of 10 times.

 

Lesson learned, just wanted people to be very careful when purchasing drivers/shafts from TM.

what the french toast are you talking about?

it's a known fact that project x makes a handcrafted AND non-handcrafted version of this shaft and it is not exclusive to TM; therefore, NOT a made for.

is it all possible that shaft wasn't fit for you properly? after all, the 757 speeder in x is a lot different than the hzrdus yellow, in x due to the counterbalance of the yellow. further, did you tip the yellow like the 757?

and if you're 3w goes straight 8 out of 10 times, you should be playing that off the tee more, might be less than a 5 handicap.

...i swear, these threads...

ok fine. not a "made for" but lets call it "a lot worse quality". A simple google search reveals these shafts are made in Asia with lesser tolerances. The specs are available online and they are not even close to the real hand crafted shafts

This is the reason I have gone to tour shafts in graphite. The tolerance's are much tighter.

ok fine. not a "made for" but lets call it "a lot worse quality". A simple google search reveals these shafts are made in Asia with lesser tolerances. The specs are available online and they are not even close to the real hand crafted shafts

further, as a discerning player -- why did you not get professionally fit to determine if a counterbalance shaft, premium-ultra-spec-tolerances, fits your swing correctly? b/c a 757x is more for a harsh transition with quick tempo vs a counterbalance which, depending on the type of swing, would produce the 'awful' results you've seen?

but no, let's start a thread with intent to bash taylormade instead of 'informing consumers'; at the very least, know your info and get properly fit.

what you described about the yellow is the designed bend profile. super soft section and a same tip as the hzrdus red. its made for a smooth swinger,

So you're comparing cost to make of one shaft vs retail price of another? Makes total sense. How do you know premium shaft doesn't cost $10 to make?

You are correct. Apparently these shafts are being produced for Cobra and other companies as well. It seems the only way to get the real version is Callaway

So let me get this straight...

You bought a Speeder 757 X (which came tipped 1", TM standard) and it was way too stiff

So you transitioned from that to a Hzrdus Yellow (Non Handcrafted) and it's too soft in the butt and tip for you to control

And you hit your 3-wood straight 80% of the time...

And this is somehow correlates to warning us about Taylormade's drivers/shafts ?

Pretty sure 1" is standard TM tipping for driver shaft in their current adapter FYI

Sorry I changed the topic to just Project X hand crafted. This was by no means a way to bash TM. I know they have produced a lot of "made for" shafts in the past so i thought thats what i had.

You are correct. Apparently these shafts are being produced for Cobra and other companies as well. It seems the only way to get the real version is Callaway

Wrong again. Callaway uses the same non-handcrafted as anyone else does.

See EvenFlow Blue, Hzrdus, Etc.

Only way you're getting Handcrafted through anyone is by paying an upcharge for it.

Wait so what your telling me is the $75 shaft isn’t the same as the $350 version, my god shocking. All joking aside no one has made for exclusive shafts anymore. Yes they are they aren’t the same as the HC/Pro/tour versions, but that’s because they are cheaper and fit the average consumers wallet and swing more.You can pay to get an upgrade on shafts straight from the manufacturer. If you want the best stuff you got to pay for it.

Edit: after seeing you change the topic, I don’t think the profile of HC vs non is very different in those shafts just the tolerances are a lot tighter.

im sorry for making it seem like an agressive post TM has been very good for me its just disappointing to realize you are playing with an inferior product.

Hello- I know there are other threads on this but they seem to be very old. Figured I'd start a new one that's a little different.

 

I want lower handicaps to be aware that TM is still putting 'made for' shafts from China in their drivers. These shafts cost probably $7 to produce compared to the real versions which sell for $300. And there is nothing on the shafts that say "made exclusively for..." like on older TM and titleist drivers.

 

A while back I ordered an M2 with a speeder 757 X. The club shipped to me and felt like a telephone pole. Come to find out it was tipped 1 inch (which is fine, its my fault for not looking into this).

 

I replaced it with a Project X HZRDUS 6.5 yellow. The black one with yellow lettering not the handcrafted ( didnt know this until after i got the shaft).

 

This has to be the worst shaft I have ever played. The butt and tip is so incredibly soft for a 6.5 that I cannot hit one drive without it being an overpowered smother-hook or a ball that starts straight and mysteriously cuts 15 yards to the right.

 

No, its not me, I'm a 5 hcp and my 3 wood goes straight 8 out of 10 times.

 

Lesson learned, just wanted people to be very careful when purchasing drivers/shafts from TM.

Yes, it is you. The Yellow has a crazy bend profile (as shown a few posts up). If that profile doesn't fit you, your results will be all over the map and pretty much a disaster. You didn't buy a crap shaft and TaylorMade isn't attempting to pull one over on you. Your post is inflammatory with no actual basis in fact.

The Handcrafted vs non-Handcrafted topic has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum. Bottom line, non-Handcrafted are the same materials and design as then Handcrafted, but just produced in a way that optimizes for volume as opposed to tight tolerances. The Handcrafted are the opposite: the build process is optimized for tight tolerances, not volume. So there will likely be a difference if you're directly comparing a handcrafted shaft against a non-handcrafted one. But even if you're taking a non-handcrafted shaft with the loosest acceptable tolerances, you're not getting something that's wildly out of spec. That's simply not true.

And, it's entirely possible that a non-handcrafted shaft will have the exact same specs as a handcrafted one. There is just a wider range of tolerances that these can fall into, but again the non-handcrafted ones are still a HZRDUS shaft. They're not junk.

im sorry for making it seem like an agressive post TM has been very good for me its just disappointing to realize you are playing with an inferior product.

If you knew this, why did you buy the stock OEM version of the HZRDUS Yellow?

I play a stock Aldila 2KXV in my 3w and it's lovely. I also have a handcrafted Evenflow Black that I'm putting in this week to compare to it. Shall I post the data here when I'm done? $80 "made for" vs a $350 handmade beauty... I'm going to guess I'll see almost no difference in overall distances. Flight might get a bit lower, shaft overall might feel a bit more tight... but that's expected because the profiles are different. The Aldila spins fairly low for a smooth mid shaft and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

1) True Temper/Project X handcrafted simply refers to the production location (and fancy etching). Handcrafted are produced in San Diego, CA and the non-handcrafted are produced somewhere in China. They use the same material and are produced to the same target specs. Both shafts are produced the same way as well which is a human rolling prepreg flags around a dowel, so they are both technically "handcrafted" as is every other composite shaft in existence. The biggest difference is the cost of labor, economies of scale (CA facility produces far fewer shafts than China facility), and potential cost of additional post-production QA testing.

2) Tighter tolerances has nothing to do with actual production of the shaft. A tolerance is an allowable range of deviation from the target spec. This means post-production testing/measurement to determine what is allowable to be shipped vs scrapped and not sold. Tighter tolerance=potentially higher reject rate=higher cost which generally makes its way to the consumer cost. In terms of PX handcrafted vs non, you could end up with a shaft from CA and a shaft from China that are 100% identical, so what did the added cost get you aside from the fancy etching?

3) Retail cost is not indicative of "quality". I recommend the OP give Tom Wishon's fitting series a read:

http://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/

4) It sounds like the OP purchased something blindly and is unhappy with the result. The PX is not an inferior shaft, it just may not be a good fit vs your previous gamer. Simple solution is to go through a proper fitting next time before buying.

ok thanks. I thought 6.5 would be plenty stiff. it does not play this stiff, not even close. the 6.5 iron shaft is stout as hell.

WOuld love to hear TT chime In here. I’ll agree with the op. The non handcrafted versions since the LZ aren’t closevto same shafts as the handcrafted versions. I love the hand crafted LZ 6.5 and 7.0. But the non handcrafted versions are noodles.

Sorry I changed the topic to just Project X hand crafted. This was by no means a way to bash TM. I know they have produced a lot of "made for" shafts in the past so i thought thats what i had.

So how is this handcrafted vs non-handcrafted exactly? Did you even try a HC version for comparison?

You got a shaft with wrong profile and came here to bash Project X for having shafts made in China? Go try a HZRDUS Black 6.5 tipped 1", HC'd or not, and then come back to cry your arms hurt.

I had 2 hzrdus red...handcrafted and not. After playing both...I sold the handcrafted. Sure it looks better...but I think it's a waste of money. No performance benefits over the regular red.

Who in the hell ever thought that if you purchase a stock PX shaft it was gonna be handcrafted? All stock option shafts are the mass produced version and that does not make them less significant. All major OEM’s offer legitimate shaft upgrades. Gotta pay to play. This is dumb.

I suppose we need to get angry at TM for the stock Fuji Atmos shaft now too. And Callaway for the stock Fuji Pro in the epic. The stock even flow in the rogue. This list could go on forever. A person could not afford to play golf if the high end version of these shafts were sold stock in these drivers. That’s why there is a thing called upgrades. Also, the majority golfers can not tell the difference. I can’t.

my point is that the shaft is in the club, on display at stores with nothing indicating that its a mass produced, stock version made thousands of miles away from where the original is made. nothing like "made exclusively for" anywhere

I played the stock HZRDUS Yellow 6.5 63g for a bit (as I am a smooth swinger that hovers around 103-106 swing speed) and it worked great. I was properly fitted for that shaft and had no issues. It seems you were expecting the same outcome with two different shaft profiles. I have read many review and threads stating the HC and Non-HC are pretty similar in specs being one is hand painted and one it machine painted. I currently play a Speeder 661 Evo X with a D4.5 swing weight. The heavier swing weight softens the shaft a bit for my smooth swing but again, I was fit for this. Note, my shaft was butt trimmed -.75 and the fitter added weight in the head to get it a bit above standard SW D4.

- KC

Hello- I know there are other threads on this but they seem to be very old. Figured I'd start a new one that's a little different.

 

I want lower handicaps to be aware that TM is still putting 'made for' shafts from China in their drivers. These shafts cost probably $7 to produce compared to the real versions which sell for $300. And there is nothing on the shafts that say "made exclusively for..." like on older TM and titleist drivers.

 

A while back I ordered an M2 with a speeder 757 X. The club shipped to me and felt like a telephone pole. Come to find out it was tipped 1 inch (which is fine, its my fault for not looking into this).

 

I replaced it with a Project X HZRDUS 6.5 yellow. The black one with yellow lettering not the handcrafted ( didnt know this until after i got the shaft).

 

This has to be the worst shaft I have ever played. The butt and tip is so incredibly soft for a 6.5 that I cannot hit one drive without it being an overpowered smother-hook or a ball that starts straight and mysteriously cuts 15 yards to the right.

 

No, its not me, I'm a 5 hcp and my 3 wood goes straight 8 out of 10 times.

 

Lesson learned, just wanted people to be very careful when purchasing drivers/shafts from TM.

The Yellow is a "counterbalanced" shaft. It seems to me you are more upset with the shaft profile than the "perceived" quality.

If perceived quality is more important to you then go with Oban.....Their shafts are the same whether aftermarket or "made for". But even then you still need to find the right profile for your swing.

my point is that the shaft is in the club, on display at stores with nothing indicating that its a mass produced, stock version made thousands of miles away from where the original is made. nothing like "made exclusively for" anywhere

This isn't true either. The HandCrafted ones that are made in very small batches are marked as such, those that are made by conventional production methods don't have that marking.

I love French Toast

I have the stock Hzrdus red in my M1 and it’s the best driver shaft I’ve ever played and I’m longer and straighter with the driver than I’ve ever been. That’s because I was fitted for the shaft so the bend profile, launch and spin suit my game. Do I think that the stock Hzrdus is made to the same tolerance as the Hand Crafted version? Of course not. Is it still a quality shaft? Yes.

No OEM offers a tour quality shaft for the retail price, those will cost you hundreds more. This has always been the case regardless of what kind of club the shaft is for. The only question is whether the handcrafted version will make you better off the tee than the stock version.

my point is that the shaft is in the club, on display at stores with nothing indicating that its a mass produced, stock version made thousands of miles away from where the original is made. nothing like "made exclusively for" anywhere

 

This isn't true either. The HandCrafted ones that are made in very small batches are marked as such, those that are made by conventional production methods don't have that marking.

The handcrafted Hzrdus are even different colors (except for the tour issue ones) it’s not like the OEMs are trying to trick people.

The stock shafts are the same profile as the handcrafted but the manufacturing tolerance isn’t as stringent so they can be offered at a lower price.

my point is that the shaft is in the club, on display at stores with nothing indicating that its a mass produced, stock version made thousands of miles away from where the original is made. nothing like "made exclusively for" anywhere

You can't possibly be as uninformed or misinformed as you are acting here. You've been on this site for going on 8 years and you've filled this thread with nothing but hyperbole, quackery, and ridiculous assumptions. This has to be a troll job, or you're playing some angle with an axe to grind against TaylorMade.