Project X LZ 6.0 vs. DGS300

Subject line says it all....

Currently use DGS300 in my 716 Titleist AP2s.....thinking about getting 718 AP3s with Project X LZ 6.0s

Anyone have any experience with both shafts or club heads?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Would ask for opinions too, but you don’t have to ask for those on Wrx.

S300 is a good shaft, but it's gotten such a reputation as the "made for", "one size fits all" shaft because it comes stock in almost every set of irons. I personally like the S300's quite a bit and have always had good luck with them.

That being said, the LZ's have a tighter, better feel in my experience. I was never a big fan of the Project X's - thought they felt too harsh and spun too little. The LZ's definitely keep the good characteristics of Project X, without the bad parts.

They're mid launch, mid spin, great feel, and look super cool (if that matters for you - it does for me).

I think the AP3's are really good clubs, I hit a set for 18 holes and was surprised at how much I liked them. I would say S300 to LZ 6.0 from a stiffness perspective should be close.

Had S300s in 712 AP2, did€™ not like them as they launched too low for my preferred flight. When I went to 714 AP2, I initially had KBS Tour S, which I swapped out for DG XP105 S.

All of these were me trying to self fit.

Come along the 2018 Titleist range, I went to the Titleist UK National Fitting Centre. The outcome was a full set of 718 AP3s with Project X LX 6.0.

Just for reference I have used Project X Flighted 6.0 in a set of Callaways pre 2012, did not really like them they felt boardy and less spin on a flat flight.

First thing I would say is go for a fitting, I would never of thought I would end up in another Project X model.

But back to your original question, for me S300 & X LZ, stiffness feels similar, launch is higher in X LZ, and there feels more kick at impact with good spin.

I have a smooth transition, 85mph 6 iron and 102mph Driver swing speed.

I just recently made the switch from S300 to LZ 6.0. Definitely happy with the change. Feel is better, launch is higher, dispersion better.

The feel is hard to describe. Almost feels like there is more pop where the S300 feel more dead through impact. Calling the S300 “dead” is not the feel the really have, just using that description for comparison purposes.

For me, different feel. PLayed dg s300 in my old mizzy's then sitched to LZ 6.0. Much more feeling of loading.. smoother.. for me I liked it.

I feel like the modus 120 feel fairly similar to LZ but have a better dispersion.

Having played S300 most of my life and now having played LZ 6.0 recently I will say I like the LZ much more. I'm a high spin high launch player and oddly the LZ gave me much better numbers than S300 during my fitting. Lowered spin, launch may have been a touch higher but overall distance improved by about a whole club. Much less ballooning as well which was always a killer for me with the S300.

The LZ definitely has a great feel. Like others said it has more of a pop feel that is more satisfying.

One thing I will add is the stiffness. S300 comes in at 5.5 FCM while LZ 6.0 is 6.5, which is more of a stiff plus. Somewhere between stiff and x-stiff. (True Temper has said that the LZs have the same stiffness and frequency of regular project x and the regular at 6.0 is 6.5 FCM) So the LZ at 6.0 is actually stiffer than S300, I just think the more lively feel and pop at impact gives the impression that its softer than it is.

This is my first ever season not playing a set of S300's, in my current set are the LZ 6.0s.

First thing I noticed when testing was straighter and with less spin.

I have always been a very high spin player and really should fit into the Project X's but have hated their feeling. The LZ's offer better feel than the standard Project X but as someone who grew up on Dynamic Gold's I have always enjoyed their feel.

Another reason I think I do well with the LZ's are their lighter weight around the 120 mark which is a bit of a sweet spot for me.

The only downside for me is having to get used to a slightly different feel when hitting shots partial shots, not a biggie just different.

I would take DG over the PX LZ all day. I do not think they should even call the LZ a Project X shaft, it is so different a profile. Launches real high for me and I do not like the spongy feeling in the middle. I’ve tried to like the LZ in testing three times now but I clearly am not a fit.

I do prefer PX Rifle shafts — my default favorite shaft along with C Taper Lite — and I say this to all who find PX Rifles boardy: Drop down by half-flexes until it feels better. Many play PX in too stiff a flex. I got fitted into the 6.0 but have found I can play the 5.5 or even the 5.0 with no change in dispersion, only gains in distance and feel. There is plenty of shaft there for most players and when you find the PX shaft that feels right, it’s great. Feels powerful and solid.

The reason I don’t go for S300 is solely that I find them too heavy. But I would definitely consider the new tour issue DG 120. Hear great things about it. I will play it in a set sooner or later.

I would take DG over the PX LZ all day. I do not think they should even call the LZ a Project X shaft, it is so different a profile. Launches real high for me and I do not like the spongy feeling in the middle. I've tried to like the LZ in testing three times now but I clearly am not a fit.

 

I do prefer PX Rifle shafts — my default favorite shaft along with C Taper Lite — and I say this to all who find PX Rifles boardy: Drop down by half-flexes until it feels better. Many play PX in too stiff a flex. I got fitted into the 6.0 but have found I can play the 5.5 or even the 5.0 with no change in dispersion, only gains in distance and feel. There is plenty of shaft there for most players and when you find the PX shaft that feels right, it's great. Feels powerful and solid.

 

The reason I don't go for S300 is solely that I find them too heavy. But I would definitely consider the new tour issue DG 120. Hear great things about it. I will play it in a set sooner or later.

Lots of truth spoken in this post that I absolutely agree with. I have a 91mph 6 iron swing speed and find the PX 5.5 absolutely fine. I really like the S300 as well but in the longer irons just a fraction hefty. Looking forward to shafting up the 120s and see how they play.

Gents,

For those with project x LZ 6.0 stiff shafts, what driver shaft do you use? ??

Old tread, but the info about FCM numbers is not correct, not even close.

PX LZ 6.5 is softer than standard PX 5.5, so the LZ 6.0 is not even close to FCM 6.5, and its a softer shaft than DG S300 who is the subject for this tread.

PX LZ is close to PXI as flex labels.

A shaft that feels "smoother" and have more feel of load and release can only be that if its SOFTER, so this flex labels is to please the players ego, they are useless for compare between models. The LZ is the softest PX option. Go by Weight, Feel and Dispersion, never mind the flex label.

what wedge shafts do those LZ 6.0 users use?

Not to say you're wrong. In fact, based on what I've read from you over the years, I'm sure you're right. But have you seen/measured actual FCM numbers for the LZs? I haven't but have read over and over that they're supposed to be the same stiffness as regular project x. I have read all I can on these having played them for a few years and have never seen hard numbers. Just the info project x puts out and the anecdotal stories from others. That's why I said long ago the FCM is 6.5 because regular project x is supposed to be that and the closest I have seen to factual info is from project x saying the LZs are the same, which I get could easily just be marketing. And I always take anecdotal stories with a large grain of salt.

Please understand that FCM values is ONLY the butt CPM on the club, it tells nothing about the rest of the shaft, and that system was never ment for use on anything but RIFLE FCM shafts so when we force other models into that system for jugement, we no longer have a Apple to Apple compare.

AS Energy inertia profile, the LZ is like the standard only even softer on all spots the standard is soft. (more curved EI profile). Measured as butt CPM only, they seems weak, where LZ 6.0 is in the area of PX 5.0, so to simplify it, the LZ offer a softer option at the same weight as the standard model.

EI Profile of the standard PX vs PX LZ.

Measured CPM - All numbers using a 200 gram weight, thats why differences become larger (more visible) and way higher than in play (head weight is way higher than the used tip weight)

The old fashion way to judge flex was using the deflection board, (how much the shaft bends down with a certain load). Ive included that number here, and PX LZ 6.5 deflects 2.375" or the same as the regular PX 5.5, so the LZ series is indeed softer vs its standard brother model, but we cant "improve feel" (make it feel softer), without actually making it softer, and thats the whole idea with LZ.....keep the weight but in a model with more feedback from load and release.

Some Dynamic Gold options for compare.

And here is how RIFLE FCM 5.5 looks like. Raw butt CPM is 362, but if we wanted to squeeze them all into the FCM system, it would be the next row (7.5") used for that, and then FCM 5.5 is 399, vs LZ 6.5 who is 405 or 6 CPM stronger = FCM 6.1, while the LZ 5.5 who only measure 381 or 18 CPM softer than RIFLE FCM 5.5 would come out as FCM 3.7 only on a chart like that, but the shaft would feel WAY stronger than Rifle 4.0, so we should NOT use the FCM system for compare of shafts that was not designed to be judged by that system

RIFLE FCM shaft has a mid to butt progression thats almost a strait line, while ALL PX models turns weak at the butt (forcing bend point), so when we use the butt as the only compare, we fool our self. (Compare RIFLE FCM 5.5 to DG S200, they areas close as can be, but FEEL is still very different since DG has a "soft" butt section vs MID and that part is left out here)

The Rifle FCM EI profile is not that far from PX LZ, EXCEPT for the butt section where LZ goes weaker like its brother model, and thats why the FCM system is useless here.

So, the LZ as flex is more inline with PXI who is to the softer side vs flex labels, but that gives us a softer option vs the standard at the same weight.

Just looking at the Ping shaft options for i210.  The shaft weights quoted on the Ping website are different to weights quoted by the manufactures of the shafts.  Can someone explain this?