Jimmy Ballard - The Connected Golf Swing

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Comments

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Posts: 380 ✭✭
    Effortless power is a good thing and what you felt was the dog wagging the tail, not the tail wagging the dog.



    Keep work on feeling like you're swinging with your big muscles and keep your small twitch muscles quite.... you should buy his book if you are that new to golf so you understand the main principles:
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • GalangaGalanga Members Posts: 702 ✭✭
    edited May 5, 2018 #33
    6 cap and 56 yo. Seeking a more repetitive swing that I can use as I get older. Have arthritis so the big rotational swing is causing me difficulty - can't always get the rotation.



    Read this and other threads on Ballard and watched a bunch of Ballard videos on YT. Tried it warming up - stance, connection, getting into right side and left elbow down were my main focuses. Hit it well with warm up bucket. Took it to the course. Had one of my better iron days in a while. Only driver was iffy. Shot a 78 with three birds on back which is about 1 below my handicap on first go with very little practice. Connection setup helped my putting too. Biggest difficulty for me was not turning the hips and not doing tray position at top (cupped right wrist). Going to try to get club more toe down tomorrow at top while doing all the other keys.



    Very promising. Thanks 97Speedster!



    Have the above book and Annika's book coming - digging in.
    • Ping G400 Max 10.5; GD Tour AD DI 5S; 45.25"; D6+
    • Ping G400 17.5 (- to 16.9); GD AD-F 65 Stiff-Regular; 43"; D4
    • Ping G400 19 and 22; GD AD HY 85 Stiff (SS1); D3
    • Ping i210, PW-4i; black dot; +1/2; GD Tour AD 85S graphite shaft; D3.5-4.5
    • Ping i210 50, Glide Stealth 54ES and 58WS; +1/2; Paderson TS-W shaft (115 gm); D4.5-D5.5
    • Argolf Pendragon; BGT Stability; 34.5/70*
  • GalangaGalanga Members Posts: 702 ✭✭
    Played again using what I know of Ballard. Hit wedges through 3 wood well. Driver was about 50% good. Misses were blocks. I am pretty sure the blocks are either not getting into my right leg enough - Ballard's six inch move of left knee and shoulder getting back six inches, or, I am dragging the handle through impact with elbow pointing to target. My guess for biggest culprit is the second option - gotta keep the left elbow pointing down. I like the method very much so far - improved my iron striking immensely. And, I think the more I use the big muscles and the less the hands and arms the better. Thumbs up.
    • Ping G400 Max 10.5; GD Tour AD DI 5S; 45.25"; D6+
    • Ping G400 17.5 (- to 16.9); GD AD-F 65 Stiff-Regular; 43"; D4
    • Ping G400 19 and 22; GD AD HY 85 Stiff (SS1); D3
    • Ping i210, PW-4i; black dot; +1/2; GD Tour AD 85S graphite shaft; D3.5-4.5
    • Ping i210 50, Glide Stealth 54ES and 58WS; +1/2; Paderson TS-W shaft (115 gm); D4.5-D5.5
    • Argolf Pendragon; BGT Stability; 34.5/70*
  • Marks23Marks23 Members Posts: 1,249 ✭✭
    97speedster, can you educate those of us who don’t know what you mean when referring to “springing the shaft”?
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Posts: 380 ✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018 #36
    Marks23 wrote:


    97speedster, can you educate those of us who don't know what you mean when referring to "springing the shaft"?




    It's easier to understand visually.... springing the shaft is done through the correct sequence from the top of the backswing to impact where the shaft actually bends then unleashes its stored power right before impact. Imagine the club shaft is a rope with a golf head tied to it, it's essentially the same thing the Orange Whip does for golfers. If you block or wipe it, you won't get this stored energy to release in your swing and shaft.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Posts: 380 ✭✭
    Galanga wrote:


    Played again using what I know of Ballard. Hit wedges through 3 wood well. Driver was about 50% good. Misses were blocks. I am pretty sure the blocks are either not getting into my right leg enough - Ballard's six inch move of left knee and shoulder getting back six inches, or, I am dragging the handle through impact with elbow pointing to target. My guess for biggest culprit is the second option - gotta keep the left elbow pointing down. I like the method very much so far - improved my iron striking immensely. And, I think the more I use the big muscles and the less the hands and arms the better. Thumbs up.




    Keep both elbows pointing down and make sure you are not starting your downswing by opening your shoulders which will bring the club too steep on the downswing. With the driver, this can happen when you try to hit the ball instead of swing the club.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • GalangaGalanga Members Posts: 702 ✭✭
    Thanks, Speedster for the recommendation. Will do.
    • Ping G400 Max 10.5; GD Tour AD DI 5S; 45.25"; D6+
    • Ping G400 17.5 (- to 16.9); GD AD-F 65 Stiff-Regular; 43"; D4
    • Ping G400 19 and 22; GD AD HY 85 Stiff (SS1); D3
    • Ping i210, PW-4i; black dot; +1/2; GD Tour AD 85S graphite shaft; D3.5-4.5
    • Ping i210 50, Glide Stealth 54ES and 58WS; +1/2; Paderson TS-W shaft (115 gm); D4.5-D5.5
    • Argolf Pendragon; BGT Stability; 34.5/70*
  • golfer07840golfer07840 Smart ass from Northwest NJMembers Posts: 1,627 ClubWRX
    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)



    Starting doing more "modern" things with my swing and now I'm driving the ball really well. Yet my irons are a little thin and not getting that same sensation I was with the Ballard swing.



    Very frustrating.

    Opinions are my own and are never to be taken seriously.
    and for God's sake, if you're going to whine about Jim Nantz, have the respect to spell his name correctly.
    WITTB:
    Driver: Callaway XHot Pro 9* Stiff
    3W: Tour Edge Exotics 13* Stiff
    3-4 HY: Callaway Rogue Stiff
    5-PW: Callaway Rogue Stiff steel, True Temper
    48* Titleist, 52* Callaway
    Putter: Nike Method
    Ball: ProV1 -- or whatever I find in the woods while looking for my ProV1

  • JDFishJDFish Pickerington, OhioMembers Posts: 817 ✭✭


    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)






    I don't know where that criticism of the Ballard Method comes from. I'm a 9 hcp. (mid-high 7 index) and began my swing change to this method in January and am driving the ball far straighter and as long, if not longer, than before (though I did also install a new shaft in my driver that has given me the lower, piercing ball flight I've been looking for since I got my Epic driver a few years ago). After only 3 lessons I'm a far more consistent ball striker throughout my bag. I only have to avoid the move where I hang back a bit instead of getting to my left side - if I don't I will either block it, flip and pull/draw/hook it, or hit a fat iron shot.
    Callaway Epic 9.0 Fujikura Atmos Black TS 6S
    Callaway XR Pro 3 wood
    Callaway XR 5 wood/Titleist 913H 21* hybrid
    Ping i200 Nippon N.S.Pro Modus3 Tour 105S - 4-UW
    Titleist Vokey SM6 54* and 58* S200
    Evnroll ER5 32"
  • golfer07840golfer07840 Smart ass from Northwest NJMembers Posts: 1,627 ClubWRX
    JDFish wrote:



    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)






    I don't know where that criticism of the Ballard Method comes from. I'm a 9 hcp. (mid-high 7 index) and began my swing change to this method in January and am driving the ball far straighter and as long, if not longer, than before (though I did also install a new shaft in my driver that has given me the lower, piercing ball flight I've been looking for since I got my Epic driver a few years ago). After only 3 lessons I'm a far more consistent ball striker throughout my bag. I only have to avoid the move where I hang back a bit instead of getting to my left side - if I don't I will either block it, flip and pull/draw/hook it, or hit a fat iron shot.




    Maybe it's me. I went from 90 MPH swing speed to 105 with a more, traditional, Modern (Not sure what to call it) swing. The swing just feels too armsy with the driver. Irons and wedges, it's pure gold.



    Maybe I can swing both ways? I've always been under the belief that there are 2 different swings, but people keep trying to tell me that isn't true.

    Opinions are my own and are never to be taken seriously.
    and for God's sake, if you're going to whine about Jim Nantz, have the respect to spell his name correctly.
    WITTB:
    Driver: Callaway XHot Pro 9* Stiff
    3W: Tour Edge Exotics 13* Stiff
    3-4 HY: Callaway Rogue Stiff
    5-PW: Callaway Rogue Stiff steel, True Temper
    48* Titleist, 52* Callaway
    Putter: Nike Method
    Ball: ProV1 -- or whatever I find in the woods while looking for my ProV1

  • JDFishJDFish Pickerington, OhioMembers Posts: 817 ✭✭

    JDFish wrote:



    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)






    I don't know where that criticism of the Ballard Method comes from. I'm a 9 hcp. (mid-high 7 index) and began my swing change to this method in January and am driving the ball far straighter and as long, if not longer, than before (though I did also install a new shaft in my driver that has given me the lower, piercing ball flight I've been looking for since I got my Epic driver a few years ago). After only 3 lessons I'm a far more consistent ball striker throughout my bag. I only have to avoid the move where I hang back a bit instead of getting to my left side - if I don't I will either block it, flip and pull/draw/hook it, or hit a fat iron shot.




    Maybe it's me. I went from 90 MPH swing speed to 105 with a more, traditional, Modern (Not sure what to call it) swing. The swing just feels too armsy with the driver. Irons and wedges, it's pure gold.



    Maybe I can swing both ways? I've always been under the belief that there are 2 different swings, but people keep trying to tell me that isn't true.




    I believe that once you develop mechanics that work for you, you will "swing your swing". I'm sure that my swing doesn't look like Rocco Mediate, Curtis Strange or Hal Sutton. But working on the attributes of the method - set up turning in my right foot to promote the coil, elbows down, connected left arm, etc. - gave me a great base for my swing. My friends have been commenting on how "good" it looks (whatever that means). So if you feel like you have "2 different swings" that work for you consistently, I say go for it! I forgot to mention the whole reason for my swing change to this method was to preserve my lower back/avoid lower back pain that I've had for the past several years. And it has been great for that as well image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Callaway Epic 9.0 Fujikura Atmos Black TS 6S
    Callaway XR Pro 3 wood
    Callaway XR 5 wood/Titleist 913H 21* hybrid
    Ping i200 Nippon N.S.Pro Modus3 Tour 105S - 4-UW
    Titleist Vokey SM6 54* and 58* S200
    Evnroll ER5 32"
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Posts: 380 ✭✭


    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)



    Starting doing more "modern" things with my swing and now I'm driving the ball really well. Yet my irons are a little thin and not getting that same sensation I was with the Ballard swing.



    Very frustrating.




    I'm 50 years old and still hit it 285 yds so I can dispute that, you are obviously missing something that is not enabling you to compress the ball. I hit a draw and move it plenty far enough with my driver. You might want to try using a DST Compressor 8 iron, it will help!
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • DbogeyDbogey Members Posts: 695 ✭✭
    I stumbled on this thread the other night. The head pro at my club worked with Ballard a while ago and I always like learning more about the golf swing. I saw him Monday before I headed to play in a state 4ball tournament. We talked about keeping the left elbow down and releasing my eyes early. I worked on that in my warm up and decided that I would use that as my swing key for the tournament. Mind you, I have only a few rounds and practice sessions under the belt due to NE weather.....had 2 great ball striker days and a total of 9 birdies on my own ball and my wedges from 100 yds in were ridiculous, plenty of distance with the driver and hit a ton of fairways. We ended up T16 out of 175 teams or so. I told my pro we will be working more on the Ballard system!! Thanks 97speeder for posting.



    Fairways and greens!



    Dbogey
    Ping G400 Tour S
    Ping G400 14.5
    Ping G 19*
    Ping G 22*
    Ping I200 5-P (PXLZ 5.5)
    Power spec
    Vokey 50,54,58

    Odyssey 3T P2 GP Tour Snsr Stright
  • golfer07840golfer07840 Smart ass from Northwest NJMembers Posts: 1,627 ClubWRX



    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)



    Starting doing more "modern" things with my swing and now I'm driving the ball really well. Yet my irons are a little thin and not getting that same sensation I was with the Ballard swing.



    Very frustrating.




    I'm 50 years old and still hit it 285 yds so I can dispute that, you are obviously missing something that is not enabling you to compress the ball. I hit a draw and move it plenty far enough with my driver. You might want to try using a DST Compressor 8 iron, it will help!




    I have a long torso, but short arms. The opposite of Hogan who was 5'6 with a wingspan of a 6' man.



    Point being, I don't have a lot of natural width to my swing. The Ballard swing is like swinging with a half left arm.



    Doesn't matter how well I hit it (no matter the method) I'll never drive it 285. But I know I can get to 240 with more width and torque. Something I don't get with the Ballard method.



    Great method for irons and wedges. It just doesn't give me what I need in the long game.

    Opinions are my own and are never to be taken seriously.
    and for God's sake, if you're going to whine about Jim Nantz, have the respect to spell his name correctly.
    WITTB:
    Driver: Callaway XHot Pro 9* Stiff
    3W: Tour Edge Exotics 13* Stiff
    3-4 HY: Callaway Rogue Stiff
    5-PW: Callaway Rogue Stiff steel, True Temper
    48* Titleist, 52* Callaway
    Putter: Nike Method
    Ball: ProV1 -- or whatever I find in the woods while looking for my ProV1

  • torbilltorbill Posts: 272 ✭✭
    golfer, this is strange, how the method works so well for your irons and not your driver.



    I used to hit a lot of weak fades with the Ballard method, but it was across the board irons and woods. I was hanging back, which is still my tendency. When we hang back we are prone to chicken wing shots, which come off as weak, blocked fades. We have to get on top of the ball and not hang back, otherwise the spine trends to tip backwards and the lead elbow wants to separate.



    The fact that it doesn't occur with irons but happens with the driver makes me think of equipment problems, maybe too stiff a driver shaft, or what not. But you seem to be a very thorough person, so I suspect that you have already considered that.



    In any event, you have hit the wall with this method, and that's too bad. There really is no problem with this method and good distance, from what I can tell. I will be 74 years old in a couple of days and I can hit 250 and sometimes more, and I have made no focus on distance, at all, as I have been entirely focused on getting the method right. Just this week I bought a swing speed radar unit and am going to start focusing on getting more distance and I am absolutely certain that I will be able to get another 10 yards or more, as I have not focused any attention whatsoever one making my swing faster.



    In the event that you run into trouble with what you are working on now and think that you might want to re-visit the Ballard method you could always send videos to Jimmy himself. He will critique your swing for a hundred fifty bucks. Your driver distance problem simply must be some sort of fault in your swing mechanics that Ballard would spot in an instant, or I miss my guess.



  • mocokidmocokid Members Posts: 1,710 ✭✭




    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)



    Starting doing more "modern" things with my swing and now I'm driving the ball really well. Yet my irons are a little thin and not getting that same sensation I was with the Ballard swing.



    Very frustrating.




    I'm 50 years old and still hit it 285 yds so I can dispute that, you are obviously missing something that is not enabling you to compress the ball. I hit a draw and move it plenty far enough with my driver. You might want to try using a DST Compressor 8 iron, it will help!




    I have a long torso, but short arms. The opposite of Hogan who was 5'6 with a wingspan of a 6' man.



    Point being, I don't have a lot of natural width to my swing. The Ballard swing is like swinging with a half left arm.



    Doesn't matter how well I hit it (no matter the method) I'll never drive it 285. But I know I can get to 240 with more width and torque. Something I don't get with the Ballard method.



    Great method for irons and wedges. It just doesn't give me what I need in the long game.




    I've often wondered how to create width in the Ballard swing, as most of his best guys do complete a 90* shoulder turn, yet it does not seem Ballard's intention to turn the shoulders, as coiling into the inside right leg seems paramount. My best guess is that as long as you coil into the right leg, and keep the shoulders level and elbows down, you can get some significant shoulder turn, that will promote the width you want.



    As far as the open club face, see Torbill comments, hanging back causes a lot of it, you need to fully release the right side AND right hand and arm down the line (outside rail). Hit some punch shots with irons where the club does not go beyond parallel with the ground on the follow through. Your right arm should be fully released and the left elbow tucked to the chest (connected) and your body erect, full weight on left side.



    Here is a senior Curtis Strange in video.



  • golfer07840golfer07840 Smart ass from Northwest NJMembers Posts: 1,627 ClubWRX
    mocokid wrote:





    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)



    Starting doing more "modern" things with my swing and now I'm driving the ball really well. Yet my irons are a little thin and not getting that same sensation I was with the Ballard swing.



    Very frustrating.




    I'm 50 years old and still hit it 285 yds so I can dispute that, you are obviously missing something that is not enabling you to compress the ball. I hit a draw and move it plenty far enough with my driver. You might want to try using a DST Compressor 8 iron, it will help!




    I have a long torso, but short arms. The opposite of Hogan who was 5'6 with a wingspan of a 6' man.



    Point being, I don't have a lot of natural width to my swing. The Ballard swing is like swinging with a half left arm.



    Doesn't matter how well I hit it (no matter the method) I'll never drive it 285. But I know I can get to 240 with more width and torque. Something I don't get with the Ballard method.



    Great method for irons and wedges. It just doesn't give me what I need in the long game.




    I've often wondered how to create width in the Ballard swing, as most of his best guys do complete a 90* shoulder turn, yet it does not seem Ballard's intention to turn the shoulders, as coiling into the inside right leg seems paramount. My best guess is that as long as you coil into the right leg, and keep the shoulders level and elbows down, you can get some significant shoulder turn, that will promote the width you want.



    As far as the open club face, see Torbill comments, hanging back causes a lot of it, you need to fully release the right side AND right hand and arm down the line (outside rail). Hit some punch shots with irons where the club does not go beyond parallel with the ground on the follow through. Your right arm should be fully released and the left elbow tucked to the chest (connected) and your body erect, full weight on left side.



    Here is a senior Curtis Strange in video.



    https://www.youtube....h?v=GQHjogbNFWU




    Issue with that video is, that's not Ballard's swing. Curtis left Ballard around 1990 to go work with Leadbetter.

    Opinions are my own and are never to be taken seriously.
    and for God's sake, if you're going to whine about Jim Nantz, have the respect to spell his name correctly.
    WITTB:
    Driver: Callaway XHot Pro 9* Stiff
    3W: Tour Edge Exotics 13* Stiff
    3-4 HY: Callaway Rogue Stiff
    5-PW: Callaway Rogue Stiff steel, True Temper
    48* Titleist, 52* Callaway
    Putter: Nike Method
    Ball: ProV1 -- or whatever I find in the woods while looking for my ProV1

  • mocokidmocokid Members Posts: 1,710 ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018 #49

    mocokid wrote:





    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)



    Starting doing more "modern" things with my swing and now I'm driving the ball really well. Yet my irons are a little thin and not getting that same sensation I was with the Ballard swing.



    Very frustrating.




    I'm 50 years old and still hit it 285 yds so I can dispute that, you are obviously missing something that is not enabling you to compress the ball. I hit a draw and move it plenty far enough with my driver. You might want to try using a DST Compressor 8 iron, it will help!




    I have a long torso, but short arms. The opposite of Hogan who was 5'6 with a wingspan of a 6' man.



    Point being, I don't have a lot of natural width to my swing. The Ballard swing is like swinging with a half left arm.



    Doesn't matter how well I hit it (no matter the method) I'll never drive it 285. But I know I can get to 240 with more width and torque. Something I don't get with the Ballard method.



    Great method for irons and wedges. It just doesn't give me what I need in the long game.




    I've often wondered how to create width in the Ballard swing, as most of his best guys do complete a 90* shoulder turn, yet it does not seem Ballard's intention to turn the shoulders, as coiling into the inside right leg seems paramount. My best guess is that as long as you coil into the right leg, and keep the shoulders level and elbows down, you can get some significant shoulder turn, that will promote the width you want.



    As far as the open club face, see Torbill comments, hanging back causes a lot of it, you need to fully release the right side AND right hand and arm down the line (outside rail). Hit some punch shots with irons where the club does not go beyond parallel with the ground on the follow through. Your right arm should be fully released and the left elbow tucked to the chest (connected) and your body erect, full weight on left side.



    Here is a senior Curtis Strange in video.



    https://www.youtube....h?v=GQHjogbNFWU




    Issue with that video is, that's not Ballard's swing. Curtis left Ballard around 1990 to go work with Leadbetter.




    Interesting did not know he went with Leadbetter. He seems to retain the Ballard elements, right foot square, coil into right side, soft left arm, releasing right side. Interesting. Then again Leadbetter freely took from Ballard, no?
  • mudgemudge Posts: 223 ✭✭

    mocokid wrote:





    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)



    Starting doing more "modern" things with my swing and now I'm driving the ball really well. Yet my irons are a little thin and not getting that same sensation I was with the Ballard swing.



    Very frustrating.




    I'm 50 years old and still hit it 285 yds so I can dispute that, you are obviously missing something that is not enabling you to compress the ball. I hit a draw and move it plenty far enough with my driver. You might want to try using a DST Compressor 8 iron, it will help!




    I have a long torso, but short arms. The opposite of Hogan who was 5'6 with a wingspan of a 6' man.



    Point being, I don't have a lot of natural width to my swing. The Ballard swing is like swinging with a half left arm.



    Doesn't matter how well I hit it (no matter the method) I'll never drive it 285. But I know I can get to 240 with more width and torque. Something I don't get with the Ballard method.



    Great method for irons and wedges. It just doesn't give me what I need in the long game.




    I've often wondered how to create width in the Ballard swing, as most of his best guys do complete a 90* shoulder turn, yet it does not seem Ballard's intention to turn the shoulders, as coiling into the inside right leg seems paramount. My best guess is that as long as you coil into the right leg, and keep the shoulders level and elbows down, you can get some significant shoulder turn, that will promote the width you want.



    As far as the open club face, see Torbill comments, hanging back causes a lot of it, you need to fully release the right side AND right hand and arm down the line (outside rail). Hit some punch shots with irons where the club does not go beyond parallel with the ground on the follow through. Your right arm should be fully released and the left elbow tucked to the chest (connected) and your body erect, full weight on left side.



    Here is a senior Curtis Strange in video.



    https://www.youtube....h?v=GQHjogbNFWU




    Issue with that video is, that's not Ballard's swing. Curtis left Ballard around 1990 to go work with Leadbetter.




    From what I've found and chosen to believe, Strange left Ballard and claimed to be working with Leadbetter only to get some "kickbacks"; he never actually worked with him.
  • torbilltorbill Posts: 272 ✭✭
    The only thing that jumps out at me with the Strange video is that his weight does not appear to flow to his left toe. Otherwise it appears to me to be pretty reflective of Ballard principles.
  • ggproggpro Members Posts: 542 ✭✭
    DonRSD wrote:


    I started golfing about 12 months ago and started the Ballard swing 2 months ago from Bill Abrams (what an awesome teacher).



    The swing, when I get it to work, it tremendous. Very effortless and powerful.



    My issues are....

    Getting the weight forward

    Sometimes I hit before the ball (fat)

    Sometimes I hit on off the toe of the club

    Hook shots

    Slices (driver only)



    Not too many thinned shots since I started using this method. I am about a 22 handicap.



    If anyone has any tips, I would appreciate them.



    The biggest thing for me consistency wise is to get the left shoulder behind the ball (with the left arm connected and using my body to start the backswing) and also getting to the front toe area. Sometimes I cant get to the toe area and the weight goes to my front heel instead.......Bill told me that will lead to cutting across the ball (hooks & slices with driver). For some reason though - I just cant get that weight consistently to the proper spot.





    97speedster - awesome write-up. Everything you wrote applies to me too image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    Bill Abrams is a good friend of mine and he is an awesome teacher. Illinois PGA Professional of the Year in 2016 or 2017 (can't remember lol!)
  • ggproggpro Members Posts: 542 ✭✭


    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)






    Hmmm...Jim Dent, Art Sellinger, Mike Dunaway, Jesper all hit it pretty long using the Ballard method.....
  • golfer07840golfer07840 Smart ass from Northwest NJMembers Posts: 1,627 ClubWRX
    ggpro wrote:



    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)






    Hmmm...Jim Dent, Art Sellinger, Mike Dunaway, Jesper all hit it pretty long using the Ballard method.....




    If I recall, all big guys with really long arms that naturally created width.

    Opinions are my own and are never to be taken seriously.
    and for God's sake, if you're going to whine about Jim Nantz, have the respect to spell his name correctly.
    WITTB:
    Driver: Callaway XHot Pro 9* Stiff
    3W: Tour Edge Exotics 13* Stiff
    3-4 HY: Callaway Rogue Stiff
    5-PW: Callaway Rogue Stiff steel, True Temper
    48* Titleist, 52* Callaway
    Putter: Nike Method
    Ball: ProV1 -- or whatever I find in the woods while looking for my ProV1

  • torbilltorbill Posts: 272 ✭✭
    I don’t think that arm length has much of anything to do with what is holding you back.



    I have always believed that these notions of having wider or narrower swing arcs are nonsense, at least as commonly described. My argument is summarized below, and is based on the simple mechanical principles of physics. If you don’t like this sort of analysis just skip down to my bottom line. I will put double brackets around the part that you might want to skip.



    My argument:



    [[The only arc length that matters, at least in a first-order sense, is the distance between the ball and the torso at address; either I am going to have this distance as my arc length at impact or I am going to miss the ball. Period. The rest is physics. The body is translating and rotating at impact - there is translational and rotational kinetic energy that is available to be imparted to the ball. Arm length primarily affects the rotational energy component, and this is a “squared” mathematical relationship, in that the rotational energy component varies as the square of the arc.



    What is the arc length at address/impact with the Ballard method? It is not related to the total arm length because the arms rest on the body from the elbows up. Rather it is more closely related to the forearm length. And I would argue that the forearm length is not more than an inch or two diffferent for all of us reading this forum. Mine is about 10” from the middle of the elbow joint where it bends to the middle of the wrist joint where it bend, measured along the inside of the forearm. Does anybody here have a measure that is less than 9” or greater than 11”?



    My driver shaft length is 44”. My address/impact arc is therefore about 54”. If a player has 9” forearms, his arc is going to be about 53”. If the body turns at exactly the same rate in both cases, the kinetic energy of 53” player is going to be about 4% less than mine (53/54 squared).



    But even this small amount of difference isn’t the end of the story. The player with the shorter forearms is dealing with a smaller moment of inertia. This moment of inertia (which is a different moment of inertia from the one that resists clubface twisting on an off center impact) is also a function of the arc, squared. A lower moment of inertia would in theory allow the player with 9” forearm to swing the club faster, hence overcoming some or all of the 4% loss from above.]]



    The bottom line is this - and it is simple physics - that an inch of forearm length difference is negligible in its effect on swing speed, just like shortening a drive an inch has a negligible effect on my swing speed.



    Now, we might argue that the size of the arc that is achieved in everything that leads up to impact has an effect. For example, we might argue that a stiff lead arm creates a wider arc on the backswing than what a Ballard lead arm creates on the backswing, and that this sort of “wider arc” on the backswing somehow results in more kinetic energy at impact. Good luck with that argument, I would argue that this is creative golf swing mythology that isn’t supportable on the basis of mechanical principles. My conclusion is that the energy that is available to transfer to the ball at impact is primarily based on the address/impact arc length and how fast my body is translating/shifting toward the target and how fast my torso is turning.



    We might also argue that methods other than the Ballard method have a wider address/impact arc, so they are better for hitting the ball far. I would reply that this is the same thing as me determining my preferred driver shaft length. If I cut my driver down from 45.5” to 44”, I am going to lose some clubhead speed due to the smaller arc, yes. But I am going to gain some clubhead speed by having a lower moment of intertia so that I can swing faster. Within the parameters that we golfers can vary, the net effect is going to be pretty negligible.



    The End. Whew...

  • ggproggpro Members Posts: 542 ✭✭

    ggpro wrote:



    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)






    Hmmm...Jim Dent, Art Sellinger, Mike Dunaway, Jesper all hit it pretty long using the Ballard method.....




    If I recall, all big guys with really long arms that naturally created width.




    I'd look at Dent's swing, you probably have more width with your sw than he does with his driver...still hitting it 280 while pushing 80
  • golfer07840golfer07840 Smart ass from Northwest NJMembers Posts: 1,627 ClubWRX
    ggpro wrote:


    ggpro wrote:



    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)






    Hmmm...Jim Dent, Art Sellinger, Mike Dunaway, Jesper all hit it pretty long using the Ballard method.....




    If I recall, all big guys with really long arms that naturally created width.




    I'd look at Dent's swing, you probably have more width with your sw than he does with his driver...still hitting it 280 while pushing 80




    Well I'm happy for him.



    For ME.. this method doesn't cut it. I've been doing it for 20 years. Have never been able to top 90 MPH swing speed. I go to more rotation and a more "modern" swing, suddenly I'm over 100.



    Not saying the method is wrong. It's just not for me. Esp in the long game.

    Opinions are my own and are never to be taken seriously.
    and for God's sake, if you're going to whine about Jim Nantz, have the respect to spell his name correctly.
    WITTB:
    Driver: Callaway XHot Pro 9* Stiff
    3W: Tour Edge Exotics 13* Stiff
    3-4 HY: Callaway Rogue Stiff
    5-PW: Callaway Rogue Stiff steel, True Temper
    48* Titleist, 52* Callaway
    Putter: Nike Method
    Ball: ProV1 -- or whatever I find in the woods while looking for my ProV1

  • ggproggpro Members Posts: 542 ✭✭
    edited May 11, 2018 #58
    Nice to have you here, I remember your posts from the other site.



    Curious....what do you see as the biggest differences between Butch and Jimmy? I've worked with Jimmy and some of his associates since 1988 but also have worked with one of Butch's assistants last year.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • br61br61 3x Hackin' Hall of Shame SW MissouriMembers Posts: 2,615 ✭✭


    Effortless power is a good thing and what you felt was the dog wagging the tail, not the tail wagging the dog.



    Keep work on feeling like you're swinging with your big muscles and keep your small twitch muscles quite.... you should buy his book if you are that new to golf so you understand the main principles:




    That book brings back old memories, I have that book somewhere. Gotta dig it up!
    My bag of hacking utensils;

    Titleist TS3 9.5 PX Even Flow White 6.0(45")
    917F2 16.5* Diamana D+ 80 stiff
    816H1 21 & 25 Speeder 8.8 stiff
    J15CB 5-PW Modus 120 stiff
    TM MG Bronze, 52*,56* & 60*
    Bobby Grace LFI 43"


  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Posts: 380 ✭✭

    ggpro wrote:



    Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.



    HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)






    Hmmm...Jim Dent, Art Sellinger, Mike Dunaway, Jesper all hit it pretty long using the Ballard method.....




    If I recall, all big guys with really long arms that naturally created width.




    I'm 6'3" and my wing span is only 5'11".
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Posts: 380 ✭✭
    ggpro wrote:


    Nice to have you here, I remember your posts from the other site.



    Curious....what do you see as the biggest differences between Butch and Jimmy? I've worked with Jimmy and some of his associates since 1988 but also have worked with one of Butch's assistants last year.




    Which assistant did you work with? Styles of Butch vs Ballard are different, but the main principles are very close. Both want a wider base, both want you to coil behind the ball, both want the club in front of your body going back and down, both want a strong release and like the split grip practice swing to feel it. Butch wants more width in the swing by keeping the right arm straighter with less bend in it. Butch says nice things about Ballard and even told Ballard to his face once at a summit that he thought he was one of the few teachers that new what he was talking about.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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