Jimmy Ballard - The Connected Golf Swing

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  • dodgerdodger Members Posts: 413 ✭✭

    Curtis looks like his right hip dips too low with too much right knee flex in the downswing adding to the stuck look. In his swings in 1988-89 US Open, watch how high his right hip stays in the downswing. I see that a lot more than I see too flat shoulders in the downswing.

  • torbilltorbill Members Posts: 311 ✭✭

    @bluedot said:

    @dodger said:
    I think Jim Hardy is a great instructor who has a classification system he developed which provides him and other instructors some flexibility in developing a swing method for golfers. I think Ballard came up with a method that works extraordinarily well without any discussion of plane, other than his preference for steepness in the backswing. I do not think a comparison gives either instructor their due. Ballard is really simple, I have read Hardy's books, and they are a bit more complicated. I think the PGA champion has confirmed for me that simple is the answer. What is interesting is Koepka's swing. Wide stance, early shift right, right shoulder moves up on the backswing and left arm steep. The only real difference is club position at the top is more closed, with a different wrist position than Ballard advocates. Otherwise, I see a ton of stuff Ballard would like in Koepka's swing.

    One additional thought: ANY swing change or rebuild goes better with a good instructor. But reasonably athletic, reasonably intelligent person can do a pretty good job of implementing Ballard to an acceptable level just by diligent study and use of the book and careful practice. Attempting to implement a "single plane" swing from Hardy's book but without an instructor is done at one's own peril; becoming too flat and being stuck is a real danger, and one from which recovery is not easy.

    Good post. I am self-taught on the Ballard swing, and I agree with all of what you say.

    It has taken me a lot of study, hard work, and time to do it on my own. I don’t recommend this approach for most people. But if there isn’t a Ballard instructor handy it’s doable.

    The reason that I don’t recommend it for most is because of the impression that I get from most people who have come to me for help. My friends are like me - old, mostly. It isn’t that they see me playing better than ever. It’s that what they see is that my game is holding steady, and theirs is deteriorating.

    When we are young we can paper over a lot of fundamental swing flaws with strength and flexibility. But if the flaws are there, they get magnified by age. If we aren’t willing to make changes, and even undergo fundamental revisions, we are surely going to sink into the golf abyss and end the active days of our lives by doing volunteer work at the local hospital or taking up mahjongg - I have watched this happen, literally, again and again. And my friends see it. And they don’t know how to push the age-related downward spiral to the right.

    I have tried to help some players who never were good players. They have no idea what is needed to make the ball go straight. I have also tried to help some very good players who are struggling with age. You would think that the better players would have a seriously better understanding of basic swing mechanics. Not true!!!! Rather, it seems that these people are simply blessed in the first place with more natural talent for the game, because it is pretty clear that they are just about as clueless as anybody about what makes the ball go straight!

    What is going on, anyway? Why is it, that there an endless amount of golf information available, yet so many people know so little about a proper golf swing? After all, anybody who plays golf is literally bombarded with instruction from PGA teachers, videos, TV, magazines, on and on.

    My sense of it is that golfers are, like anybody else, are products of their environment. When the environment caters to a sound byte mentality, to a what’s-working-now mentality, a quick fix mentality, a “swing tip” mentality, they have no chance, really. The golf swing is too complex and difficult for a swing tip mentality. Yet, this is what so many players seem to be getting from the myriad information available.

    I am told that Ballard will not teach by looking at a person’s swing and commenting. He requires that the student first understand the general principles of his method, and only then he will critique the person’s swing, working with what the player has but at the same time ingraining the common denominator principles - so enlightened and helpful to the student, the exact opposite of the swing tip mentality!

    But I don’t think that most people are perceptive enough to do it on their own, because it is a long road with many cul de sacs and because of the swing tip conditioning of the golf population.

    In doing it on my own I feel that there has be a huge advantage, which is that once you do everything wrong that Ballard is trying to explain to us, you start to do it right, and the pain of the process leads to a very good understanding of the principles that make a ball go straight and far. I actually feel that if the Peter Kostises of the world would read Jimmy’s book and get his seven common denominators stapled inside their heads, they could help the golfing public by illustrating, in real time, before a national audience, what it is that Jason Day or DJ or Tiger did, or failed to do, in accordance with principles that are actually important. As it is, when these people comment on a player’s swing all they are doing is adding to the confusion of golf instruction.

  • DonRSDDonRSD Daddy Warbucks South FloridaMembers Posts: 195 ✭✭

    @97speedster said:

    @97speedster said:

    Jimmy says one-plane.... he wants you to return the club down on the same path it went back on.

    To expand on this now that I have more time.... years ago Jimmy had his academy at a range in Margate, Florida where there were dividers between the range stalls, they had a rail on them that started at about 3' and slowly elevated to about 4' and were about 3' in length. Jimmy had me stand with that rail between my feet and the ball and said my hands worked up that rail on the backswing in a straight line then on the way down they worked back that same rail they went up on on the way down.

    A great drill to get this feel is to take two or three of those 4x4x48" club boxes and tape them together with white duct tape, then take black electrical tape and put it round the middle of the box at 24" from each end, then place that box like it's a wall between your feet and the ball. The black electrical tape is where your club and ball position should be; then make practice swings missing the wall going back and through. If you drop the club under the plane or suck the club too far inside going back, you will hit the wall. Likewise, if you swing the club left after impact and not down the line then you will also hit the wall on the way through. Boxes are good because they won't hurt you or damage your club if you make a mistake.

    This drill really teaches you to control your path and plane going back and through, but it's important to hit from the middle of the boxes because that way you will get feedback on both sides of the ball going back and through and won't groove an over top swing which isn't good either.

    Where in Margate? I live a town over from there.....wish I was golfing back then lol

    Driver: Titleist TS2
    3 Wood: Titleist TS2
    Hybrids: Titleist 818 H1
    Irons: TaylorMade P790
    Wedges: Vokey
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)
  • sbarksbark Members Posts: 232 ✭✭

    @PowerPutt said:
    Would this tip from Annika help with some of the downswing questions?

    The reverse C is what I get when I "fire the right side" starting with right ankle
    My rear hip dips
    Got on range taking swings with thought of high right shoulder and keeping Annika's line on right side
    Results good
    But.......how then to get power from the ground

  • gsea33gsea33 Members Posts: 708 ✭✭

    Thought I pass on a few more of my "nuggets" in case it may help others. Obviously a layman in the golf world compared to a lot on this thread but thought someone might find a nugget themselves or just use it for TP lol.
    Been working pretty diligently with JB teachings. And as I said before they are gospel but one needs to develop their own why of incorporating them imo. So I have made great progress in my opinion. I have basically come down to these thoughts. Address stand straight up with the club grounded behind the ball. Raise my arms in to the half a left arm position and start the swing with the left shoulder. Stay in tempo and use the right leg and right hand to control the club head speed. I also find more success with letting the club continue past the hands. Back to your regular scheduling programming.

    Titleist 975D 10.5
    Titleist 975F 14.5
    Titleist 975F 20.5
    Ping Eye 2 2, 4-SW BECU
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  • AyersjjAyersjj CoastMembers Posts: 212 ✭✭

    Any contradiction to Ballard here? All thoughts/opinions are welcome yay or nay to Mr. Tom.

    Hogan Apex Edge Pro pw-3i
    Taylormade Tour Preferred R510 9*
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  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 449 ✭✭

    @sbark said:

    Where in Margate? I live a town over from there.....wish I was golfing back then lol

    I think it was called Family Golf Center back then, but this was about 20 years ago.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 449 ✭✭
    edited May 26, 2019 9:25am #909

    @Ayersjj said:
    Any contradiction to Ballard here? All thoughts/opinions are welcome yay or nay to Mr. Tom.

    Tom is right in what he's saying no matter what anybody else says or thinks.... if it works for him, it's right because he's stood the test of time and has a great swing so you can't argue with a hall of famer. Listening to good players "feels" can be dangerous though, just because Tom says that's what he does, doesn't mean he actually does it in a real life swing with a ball and under pressure. Ben Hogan didn't actually do many things that he claimed he did either. I think what Tom says is right and makes sense, but it might put extra pressure on the back too if he stays there too long after impact.

    The best iron players in the world maintain their spin angles into impact, I know I do and I'm a good iron player..... staying there too long after impact can cause unnecessary strain on the lower back though. Look at Henrik Stenson, he maintains his spine angle until impact too, but then release his spine to finish level to the horizon.

    In my opinion, Tom doesn't stay in the same spine angle for as long as he thinks he does after impact.

    If Tom truly did what he thinks he does and kept his spine angle the same the ENTIRE swing, the bill of his cap touch the same line when he finished... it's clearly another example of a great player describing a feel that isn't exactly the same as what he actually does. His spine raises up vertically significantly after impact; just look at the yellow line that goes through the same bush in the background in both frames.

    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • gsea33gsea33 Members Posts: 708 ✭✭

    Was struggling today. Went to the range. Finally put on the glove bingo. Didn't realize how flat I was getting (holding a tray flat). I think little more feel work (ie glove) I probably will b able to recognize the fault while playing.
    On a different subject spine angle I think with jb's technique it's hard not to maintain the spine angle imo.

    Titleist 975D 10.5
    Titleist 975F 14.5
    Titleist 975F 20.5
    Ping Eye 2 2, 4-SW BECU
    Titleist Acushnet Bullseye

  • AyersjjAyersjj CoastMembers Posts: 212 ✭✭
    edited May 24, 2019 1:22pm #911


    When I first went to JB in 87 I asked him about plane. He always wanted me to fold up “within” plane from a halfway back position. No angles No rotation, a pure triangle throughout. What he never went into detail about was the difference between shaft plane and shoulder plane emphasized by Hogan. The tow planes are met in JB method imo by the fact the right arm goes up in backswing (shoulder plane)and on the downswing the left elbow stays down (shaft plane) and folds.

    So, I agree there is not alot of thought needed but its nice to see confirmation that JB method is golden when a microscope comes out !

    @dodger said:
    I think Jim Hardy is a great instructor who has a classification system he developed which provides him and other instructors some flexibility in developing a swing method for golfers. I think Ballard came up with a method that works extraordinarily well without any discussion of plane, other than his preference for steepness in the backswing. I do not think a comparison gives either instructor their due. Ballard is really simple, I have read Hardy's books, and they are a bit more complicated. I think the PGA champion has confirmed for me that simple is the answer. What is interesting is Koepka's swing. Wide stance, early shift right, right shoulder moves up on the backswing and left arm steep. The only real difference is club position at the top is more closed, with a different wrist position than Ballard advocates. Otherwise, I see a ton of stuff Ballard would like in Koepka's swing.

    Hogan Apex Edge Pro pw-3i
    Taylormade Tour Preferred R510 9*
    Ping Anser

  • dodgerdodger Members Posts: 413 ✭✭

    I think Hardy's stuff is great, love to watch Hogan swing. My issue is that I cannot swing that way without coming way too in to out. As I am Hogan's size, I always thought the answer to my swing was a flat backswing with a lot of turn. When I swing the club more up on the backswing all the way to the top, I hit the ball much, much better. It is funny, I remember when Larry Nelson was winning a lot in the late 70's early 80's, he said he learned golf at age 24 by reading Hogan's book. If you see Larry's swing, none of it looked like Hogan. He took it inside and up, crossed the line at the top and hit a straight ball that maybe faded slightly. My point is that instruction is actually really individual and I can understand how some might not get a lot out of Ballard's methods initially. But, if you follow each step with detail, it is so simple, especially for those of you like me who are chronically underplane back and through the ball.

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 449 ✭✭
    edited May 26, 2019 9:22am #913

    For my game and height of 6'3", I like to take it back on the the shaft plane to waist high then halfway back be between my shaft plane and my shoulder plane while working my way up to the shoulder plane at the top of the backswing. For me, the most important thing is to have a higher left arm plane at the top which I get by making practice backswings often with a 7 iron and my back to the wall. I don't follow Hogan, we are built way too differently and he had a lot of anti-hook moves in his swing. If I am going to follow a players swing and set-up it is going to be someone who is a lot closer in size to me, which is why I love playing with and watching Ernie Els.



    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • gsea33gsea33 Members Posts: 708 ✭✭

    Thanks again speedster this was an eye opener. I always took it back on the shaft plane but try to maintain that plane. With you giving me "permission" to get between the shaft plane and shoulder plane halfway back made a big difference. Always for some reason thought JB like everything on the shaft plane which caused most of my misses to be thinned shots. Thanks so much for taking the time to enlighten us layman.

    Titleist 975D 10.5
    Titleist 975F 14.5
    Titleist 975F 20.5
    Ping Eye 2 2, 4-SW BECU
    Titleist Acushnet Bullseye

  • AyersjjAyersjj CoastMembers Posts: 212 ✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019 5:38pm #915




    .

    Post edited by Ayersjj on

    Hogan Apex Edge Pro pw-3i
    Taylormade Tour Preferred R510 9*
    Ping Anser

  • DonRSDDonRSD Daddy Warbucks South FloridaMembers Posts: 195 ✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019 10:41pm #916

    How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

    Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

    Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

    I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

    Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.
    I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

    Driver: Titleist TS2
    3 Wood: Titleist TS2
    Hybrids: Titleist 818 H1
    Irons: TaylorMade P790
    Wedges: Vokey
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)
  • AyersjjAyersjj CoastMembers Posts: 212 ✭✭

    Don, we all struggle at time. Distance for me is transition bc I get quik and arms it thru. My most recent JB lesson revolved around loading better in the right leg making the thru swing easier in transition.

    Imo Rocco is scoring but looks to me hes gonna play some bad golf with those new angles he implementing with Rick Smith IMO


    @DonRSD said:
    How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

    Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

    Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

    I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

    Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.
    I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

    Hogan Apex Edge Pro pw-3i
    Taylormade Tour Preferred R510 9*
    Ping Anser

  • Jersey golferJersey golfer Members Posts: 446 ✭✭

    @DonRSD said:
    How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

    Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

    Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

    I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

    Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.
    I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

    What I wouldn't give for a 160 yard 7 iron. Father time sucks.

  • torbilltorbill Members Posts: 311 ✭✭

    Don, what sort of courses are you playing, anyway that need a 175 7-iron??

    @DonRSD said:
    How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

    Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

    Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

    I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

    Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.
    I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

    In my view distance should only be a first-order concern if we don’t have enough of it. If your 7-iron distance scales to your other clubs, you already have enough distance to be a scratch player on most golf courses you will ever play. You are a high handicap player. Why not spend your time improving your game, rather than chasing more distance? Ben Hogan hit his 1-iron about 200 yards and brought the best golf courses in the world to their knees.

    My two cents...

  • AyersjjAyersjj CoastMembers Posts: 212 ✭✭

    I thought the driver was the issue. 160 7ir is plenty long I agree. > @torbill said:

    Don, what sort of courses are you playing, anyway that need a 175 7-iron??

    @DonRSD said:
    How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

    Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

    Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

    I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

    Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.
    I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

    In my view distance should only be a first-order concern if we don’t have enough of it. If your 7-iron distance scales to your other clubs, you already have enough distance to be a scratch player on most golf courses you will ever play. You are a high handicap player. Why not spend your time improving your game, rather than chasing more distance? Ben Hogan hit his 1-iron about 200 yards and brought the best golf courses in the world to their knees.

    My two cents...

    Hogan Apex Edge Pro pw-3i
    Taylormade Tour Preferred R510 9*
    Ping Anser

  • DonRSDDonRSD Daddy Warbucks South FloridaMembers Posts: 195 ✭✭

    @torbill said:
    Don, what sort of courses are you playing, anyway that need a 175 7-iron??

    @DonRSD said:
    How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

    Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

    Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

    I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

    Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.
    I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

    In my view distance should only be a first-order concern if we don’t have enough of it. If your 7-iron distance scales to your other clubs, you already have enough distance to be a scratch player on most golf courses you will ever play. You are a high handicap player. Why not spend your time improving your game, rather than chasing more distance? Ben Hogan hit his 1-iron about 200 yards and brought the best golf courses in the world to their knees.

    My two cents...

    You have a point! Distance is what everyone wants, but accuracy should be the concern.
    Well said @torbill

    Driver: Titleist TS2
    3 Wood: Titleist TS2
    Hybrids: Titleist 818 H1
    Irons: TaylorMade P790
    Wedges: Vokey
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 449 ✭✭
    edited Jun 3, 2019 9:00pm #922

    It is nice to optimize your distance whatever that might be for your game, build and swing.... it starts with making repetitive contact in the sweet spot and learning how to compress the ball. I'm 52 years old and hit 5 iron from 200 yards, while it's not the most important factor, but it helps to shooting lower scores, because if you can do that then a lot of the senior tournament courses play as a par 68 when you can reach all the par 5's with an iron.

    Trackman is real good at telling you what the max distance you are capable of hitting the ball for your game/club based on optimal swing speed, launch and angle of attack. It does help if your able to max those out and get the most yardage out of your game possible.

    If you are too steep in to impact, you will never release the club correctly and be able to compress the ball and hit it a long way with any club in your bag.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • jc4birdiejc4birdie Members Posts: 33 ✭✭

    97Speedster, I really appreciate your contributions in this thread. As a guy who “went” Ballard 3 years ago (and my old swing was as prototypically anti-JB as possible; flat, out of center, left arm stiff and high w/ the right tucked in, whipped clubhead inside....just an ugly move), it’s been a true journey that continues to this day. Index now at 11, down from 19 summer of ‘16. So here’s the current conundrum....

    Had to get rid of the inside, flat takeaway. So, applying JB’s principles and some Ballard-disciple teachers’ help, I’ve really exaggerated the opposite move to 1/2way back (think club in center drill on ‘roids) to the point that at the 1/2way back stage, I resemble Angel Cabrera’s backswing where the club is DEFINITELY outside my hands...it’s to the point that I need to get it more online (parallel to toe line), but still maintaining “center”/club relationships. Any ideas?

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 449 ✭✭
    edited Jun 4, 2019 10:55am #924

    @jc4birdie said:

    Had to get rid of the inside, flat takeaway. So, applying JB’s principles and some Ballard-disciple teachers’ help, I’ve really exaggerated the opposite move to 1/2 way back (think club in center drill on ‘roids) to the point that at the 1/2way back stage, I resemble Angel Cabrera’s backswing where the club is DEFINITELY outside my hands...it’s to the point that I need to get it more online (parallel to toe line), but still maintaining “center”/club relationships. Any ideas?

    You need to stop your right hand from moving away from the target without any rotation. The feel you want is like you're shaking hands using your right hand with someone who is standing behind you and on your target line. You can't get in the right position at the top if you don't get it in the right position halfway back. This article is from back in 1996 when Greg Norman was #1 in the world, he describes it pretty well. You want to get wider in your right arm while staying connected in your left.

    You can become too connected in your left and that is when you start losing the width in your right arm which makes it really difficult to keep the right side high and it causes all kinds of other issues like getting it too far inside or outside the hands going back; it would equate to trying to throw a pitch with your right arm struck to your side. You need room in your right arm halfway back and at the top otherwise you will duck under it with the right shoulder into impact because the right arm will be too bent and not have enough time to unfold. For me, the key to having a high right side stay high is to keep and maintain the width in my right arm going back.

    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • DonRSDDonRSD Daddy Warbucks South FloridaMembers Posts: 195 ✭✭

    @97speedster said:

    @jc4birdie said:

    Had to get rid of the inside, flat takeaway. So, applying JB’s principles and some Ballard-disciple teachers’ help, I’ve really exaggerated the opposite move to 1/2 way back (think club in center drill on ‘roids) to the point that at the 1/2way back stage, I resemble Angel Cabrera’s backswing where the club is DEFINITELY outside my hands...it’s to the point that I need to get it more online (parallel to toe line), but still maintaining “center”/club relationships. Any ideas?

    You need to stop your right hand from moving away from the target without any rotation. The feel you want is like you're shaking hands using your right hand with someone who is standing behind you and on your target line. You can't get in the right position at the top if you don't get it in the right position halfway back. This article is from back in 1996 when Greg Norman was #1 in the world, he describes it pretty well. You want to get wider in your right arm while staying connected in your left.

    You can become too connected in your left and that is when you start losing the width in your right arm which makes it really difficult to keep the right side high and it causes all kinds of other issues like getting it too far inside or outside the hands going back; it would equate to trying to throw a pitch with your right arm struck to your side. You need room in your right arm halfway back and at the top otherwise you will duck under it with the right shoulder into impact because the right arm will be too bent and not have enough time to unfold. For me, the key to having a high right side stay high is to keep and maintain the width in my right arm going back.

    The width and shaking the hands with the right arm.....same feeling as just thinking "right shoulder high" as a backswing thought?

    Driver: Titleist TS2
    3 Wood: Titleist TS2
    Hybrids: Titleist 818 H1
    Irons: TaylorMade P790
    Wedges: Vokey
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 449 ✭✭
    edited Jun 4, 2019 3:25pm #926

    You want the right shoulder to work up, but you also want the right elbow to point down.... if the right elbow works up in the backswing, your going to be off plane, disconnected and across the line then you will have to make compensations on the downswing in order to square the club up before impact.

    Keeping the right elbow pointed down might be the best thought for you right now.... you actually want both the elbows pointed down at the respective hip sockets.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • torbilltorbill Members Posts: 311 ✭✭

    @DonRSD said:

    @torbill said:
    Don, what sort of courses are you playing, anyway that need a 175 7-iron??

    @DonRSD said:
    How can I get some more distance with the JB swing?

    Over the past month I have veered away from JB in the search for more power......of course with crap results. Few bombs, but can’t stay on fairways. Back to JB today and besides my putting, shot very well.

    Just wish I could stripe my 7 iron farther than 160 carry. Really want to get to 175 with a 7 iron.

    I try loading into the the left leg harder and then get all out of whack / sequence.

    Guy above had it right.....just keep the right shoulder high on the backswing and all is well coming down.
    I find myself standing closer to the ball with JB swing so I can be more upright......feels great, though sometimes I hit the ball off the to........any reason why?

    In my view distance should only be a first-order concern if we don’t have enough of it. If your 7-iron distance scales to your other clubs, you already have enough distance to be a scratch player on most golf courses you will ever play. You are a high handicap player. Why not spend your time improving your game, rather than chasing more distance? Ben Hogan hit his 1-iron about 200 yards and brought the best golf courses in the world to their knees.

    My two cents...

    You have a point! Distance is what everyone wants, but accuracy should be the concern.
    Well said @torbill

    Don, for me hitting fairways with the tee shot is the key to good golf. This may not be true for the likes of a Seve or Phil, but I cannot recover and get up and down like a pro. When I look back on a round and think about when I miss a par or birdie opportunity, I can often trace it back to a bad tee shot - miss the fairway and the troubles begin.

    So, my goal is to hit the ball as far as I can, consistent with hitting fairways. And when I step on it too hard I miss fairways.

    Because I normally walk the golf course I can get a bit tired toward the end. This used to be the time when my upper body would get ahead and disconnected, and I would snap hook a drive out of bounds - I did this every other round or so. Ugly, round-ruining hooks off the tee, along with a sore back, are things that motivated me to look for better fundamentals, which is how I got to Ballard principles.

    I think it was the winter of 2015, possibly 2016. (I play about 75 rounds in the winter, before heading north.) By this time I had made a lot of progress with Ballard principles. I hit one drive out of bounds... the entire winter(!). I haven't been able to repeat that, but I don’t think I’ve hit as many as five OB in any given winter, since. The driving accuracy improvement that I have gained with Ballard principles has been remarkable. When we come up to a tough driving hole and the other players are pulling out fairway woods or even hybrids I have no qualms about using my driver because I have a pretty fair idea of where it is going to go.

    Eons ago I read (in Golf My Way, I think) that Jack Grout taught Nicklaus to learn to, first, hit the ball hard, then learn control. I don't think that this was right for me and I am kind of sorry that I ever read the words. I played a lot of ball when I was young and I was a slugger. I didn't need that impulse in golf. I needed a balance of good distance and good direction based on good technique, and Ballard principles give me both - when I do them right... ;-)

  • torbilltorbill Members Posts: 311 ✭✭

    Speedster, have you ever come across an old video of Jim Grant’s swing?

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 449 ✭✭

    No, never heard of him... who is he?

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • torbilltorbill Members Posts: 311 ✭✭
    edited Jun 5, 2019 1:04am #930

    He was Jimmy’s head assistant, an early version of Artie McNickle. There was an old VHS video circulating - I am guessing in the early 1980s - where Jimmy was using Grant to illustrate the fundamentals. This tape was my intro to the Ballard method, but it is long lost - I studied it a lot, didn’t understand any of it very well, hence moved on to another 30 years of useless golf tips. I have an image of his swing in my mind’s eye and would enjoy seeing if my memory is good. You might mention this to Jimmy sometime. I have never been able to find a single video of Grant.

    Edit: Frankly, I don’t know how I even remembered his name, but his swing was distinctive/different from others, almost like the Ballard method on steroids as I recall. This is a huge benefit of being old - you can’t find your car keys but you can remember names from long ago.

  • AyersjjAyersjj CoastMembers Posts: 212 ✭✭

    I think Rocco does Ballard very similar to Jim Grant.

    @torbill said:
    He was Jimmy’s head assistant, an early version of Artie McNickle. There was an old VHS video circulating - I am guessing in the early 1980s - where Jimmy was using Grant to illustrate the fundamentals. This tape was my intro to the Ballard method, but it is long lost - I studied it a lot, didn’t understand any of it very well, hence moved on to another 30 years of useless golf tips. I have an image of his swing in my mind’s eye and would enjoy seeing if my memory is good. You might mention this to Jimmy sometime. I have never been able to find a single video of Grant.

    Edit: Frankly, I don’t know how I even remembered his name, but his swing was distinctive/different from others, almost like the Ballard method on steroids as I recall. This is a huge benefit of being old - you can’t find your car keys but you can remember names from long ago.

    Hogan Apex Edge Pro pw-3i
    Taylormade Tour Preferred R510 9*
    Ping Anser

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