Jimmy Ballard

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  • DLev45DLev45  344WRX Points: 185Handicap: 8.5Members Posts: 344 Greens
    Joined:  edited Jul 31, 2018 #152


    Here is a front view video of my swing with a 7 iron...



    https://www.youtube....h?v=6gPJh9xL3JQ



    Here is a back view video of my swing with a 7 iron...



    https://www.youtube....h?v=flUazuErrYE




    What a great swing with what appear to be fairly simple mechanics, although I see that you have been playing 30+ years so that probably helps are an ex-pro. What kind of distance are you able to get through your bag?
    Posted:
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  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #153
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • mb123mb123  34WRX Points: 12Handicap: 15Members Posts: 34 Bunkers
    Joined:  #154
    this thread is awesome. I've been going back and forth with Bill Abrams this summer on actually getting a lesson. I'm going to try to see him in the next month while he is still up here.
    Posted:
  • torbilltorbill  380WRX Points: 248Members Posts: 380 Greens
    Joined:  edited Aug 29, 2018 #155
    mb123 wrote:


    this thread is awesome. I've been going back and forth with Bill Abrams this summer on actually getting a lesson. I'm going to try to see him in the next month while he is still up here.




    I hate to be the one to tell you this, but avatars that don’t have the left elbow pointing at the ground are not permitted in this thread. ;-)
    Posted:
  • ArnsybillArnsybill  295WRX Points: 74Members Posts: 295 Greens
    Joined:  #156
    Great stuff. I loved the swings of the Ballard guys... especially Hal Sutton and Curtis Strange. Great post here.



    Cheers,
    Posted:
  • garytgaryt  335WRX Points: 76Handicap: 12Members Posts: 335 Greens
    Joined:  #157
    Question for Speedster and any other Ballard swingers, do you make any adjustments with the driver? Tee it up higher or lower than normal, move the ball up in stance, anything?
    Posted:
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  • mb123mb123  34WRX Points: 12Handicap: 15Members Posts: 34 Bunkers
    Joined:  #158
    torbill wrote:

    mb123 wrote:


    this thread is awesome. I've been going back and forth with Bill Abrams this summer on actually getting a lesson. I'm going to try to see him in the next month while he is still up here.




    I hate to be the one to tell you this, but avatars that don't have the left elbow pointing at the ground are not permitted in this thread. ;-)
    hehehe - so true... image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:
  • sticknerstickner  378WRX Points: 2Handicap: ?Members Posts: 378 Bunkers
    Joined:  #159

    DLev45 wrote:



    Here is a front view video of my swing with a 7 iron...



    https://www.youtube....h?v=6gPJh9xL3JQ



    Here is a back view video of my swing with a 7 iron...



    https://www.youtube....h?v=flUazuErrYE




    What a great swing with what appear to be fairly simple mechanics, although I see that you have been playing 30+ years so that probably helps are an ex-pro. What kind of distance are you able to get through your bag?




    Thanks! Yes, I played professionally from 1992-2003. I'm going to be 51 next month; I hit my driver 280 yds and my 8 iron goes 163 yds.




    I agree - what an awesome swing. As someone that has occasional back pain, I have tried to make a switch to the Ballard way.



    Did you have many natural swing tenancies that aligned with the Ballard approach, or did you make major changes to swing that way? If you made major changes, how did you pull that off (drills, slo-mo mirror work, etc)?
    Posted:
  • jhnjhn  21WRX Points: 60Members Posts: 21 Bunkers
    Joined:  #160
    Is there any video out there of Jim Colbert’s golf swing? There used to be a YouTube video of him briefly going over the swing but it seems to have been removed.
    Posted:
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #161
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #162
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
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  • bluedotbluedot  3695WRX Points: 387Handicap: 7.5Members Posts: 3,695 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #163
    It's amazing how this thread keeps popping back up; a testimony to the solid fundamentals of the Ballard swing.



    Like many golfers, I struggle with getting the club inside too quickly and getting under the plane, resulting in two-way misses. This has, btw, gotten worse as I've gotten older and have found myself "reaching" for more distance. After a really bad ball-striking round in a tournament on Tuesday, and with another tournament coming up yesterday, I went to the range on Wednesday to do repair work.



    The easiest fix in golf is to address the ball, and then twist the right heel out and the right toe in as if you are crushing a bug and then being CERTAIN that you are in the braced position on that right side; instep, ankle inside of the calf, inside of the knee. From there, it's impossible to sway, and pretty much impossible to get the club inside too quickly. The right arm stays connected, and you stay on plane, and as we all know, if you're on plane you can turn it loose on the down swing with no worries.



    Night and day difference yesterday from Tuesday in my ballstriking, and I got more and more comfortable as the round went on. Pure Ballard 1.0, and still as valid as anything out there.
    Posted:
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #164
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • jhnjhn  21WRX Points: 60Members Posts: 21 Bunkers
    Joined:  #165
    97speedster:



    What is that training aid in your avatar?
    Posted:
  • pappaf2pappaf2  3491WRX Points: 161Members Posts: 3,491 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 10, 2018 #166


    BACKSWING



    -The right shoulder works up, not around.






    Question for you speedster, related to the above quote. Would you say that the right shoulder working up would be be equal to the left shoulder working down? Reason I ask is I was messing around with the feeling of keeping the left elbow pointing down through the backswing. In order to keep that elbow pointing down(ish) without independent arm movement it seems to make my left shoulder go down more and thus my right shoulder is higher than my left. I can't remember from when I read the book if Jimmy would classify left shoulder down as bad and if left shoulder down was different than right shoulder up.
    Posted:
  • dodgerdodger  425WRX Points: 108Members Posts: 425 Greens
    Joined:  #167
    pappaf2 wrote:



    BACKSWING



    -The right shoulder works up, not around.






    Question for you speedster, related to the above quote. Would you say that the right shoulder working up would be be equal to the left shoulder working down? Reason I ask is I was messing around with the feeling of keeping the left elbow pointing down through the backswing. In order to keep that elbow pointing down(ish) without independent arm movement it seems to make my left shoulder go down more and thus my right shoulder is higher than my left. I can't remember from when I read the book if Jimmy would classify left shoulder down as bad and if left shoulder down was different than right shoulder up.
    Not Speedster, but can respond based upon Ballard's book and videos. Ballard wants the right shoulder moving up in backswing while the left moves level to the right side, into the brace of the right leg. The spine stays vertical, the left shoulder may look down, but that depends a lot on the posture. If you set up as Ballard advocates, with the chest up, a** under the hips, the left shoulder does not look like it goes down. Getting the right shoulder up has been the key to my driving the last two months. If it goes up and not around, I am driving it 20 yards longer. If it goes around, duck hook time. However, if the left shoulder goes down too much, you never get in the right sided brace. Another benefit, I have been toeing in the right foot on bunker shots and it makes an incredible difference. Very consistent low point when the club moves up, not around.
    Posted:
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  • torbilltorbill  380WRX Points: 248Members Posts: 380 Greens
    Joined:  edited Sep 12, 2018 #168
    dodger wrote:

    pappaf2 wrote:



    BACKSWING



    -The right shoulder works up, not around.






    Question for you speedster, related to the above quote. Would you say that the right shoulder working up would be be equal to the left shoulder working down? Reason I ask is I was messing around with the feeling of keeping the left elbow pointing down through the backswing. In order to keep that elbow pointing down(ish) without independent arm movement it seems to make my left shoulder go down more and thus my right shoulder is higher than my left. I can't remember from when I read the book if Jimmy would classify left shoulder down as bad and if left shoulder down was different than right shoulder up.
    Not Speedster, but can respond based upon Ballard's book and videos. Ballard wants the right shoulder moving up in backswing while the left moves level to the right side, into the brace of the right leg. The spine stays vertical, the left shoulder may look down, but that depends a lot on the posture. If you set up as Ballard advocates, with the chest up, a** under the hips, the left shoulder does not look like it goes down. Getting the right shoulder up has been the key to my driving the last two months. If it goes up and not around, I am driving it 20 yards longer. If it goes around, duck hook time. However, if the left shoulder goes down too much, you never get in the right sided brace. Another benefit, I have been toeing in the right foot on bunker shots and it makes an incredible difference. Very consistent low point when the club moves up, not around.






    Your comment on the spine is especially important. Ballard talks a lot about the spine. He wants the spine at address not to be tipped toward or away from the target. The spine then shifts back during the backswing to load the back leg, but does not tip away from the target (sway) nor forward the target (reverse pivot) in doing so. The spine, which is the center of the body, then shifts toward the target on the downswing, again without tipping toward or away from the target, so that it returns to the attitude it was in at the address position, and then on to the finish where it becomes vertical in both planes (standing straight up). If you do this properly there is no need, in my view, to worry about the shoulders, as they basically have to move with the spine - I see no way for the shoulders to move independently of the spine. And if you manage the movement of the spine correctly the back shoulder does go high, just like what Ballard wants.



    So, if the spine and the shoulders are dependent on each other, what is cause and what is effect? Should the management of the spine result in the proper movement of the shoulders? Or, should management of the shoulders result in the proper movement of the spine/center of the body? It likely makes no difference, rather it is how you best feel it. For me, the feeling of proper control of the center of my body is more fundamental than what happens with my shoulders, and I cannot think about both at the same time.
    Posted:
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #169
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #170
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #171
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • dodgerdodger  425WRX Points: 108Members Posts: 425 Greens
    Joined:  #172
    torbill wrote:

    dodger wrote:

    pappaf2 wrote:



    BACKSWING



    -The right shoulder works up, not around.






    Question for you speedster, related to the above quote. Would you say that the right shoulder working up would be be equal to the left shoulder working down? Reason I ask is I was messing around with the feeling of keeping the left elbow pointing down through the backswing. In order to keep that elbow pointing down(ish) without independent arm movement it seems to make my left shoulder go down more and thus my right shoulder is higher than my left. I can't remember from when I read the book if Jimmy would classify left shoulder down as bad and if left shoulder down was different than right shoulder up.
    Not Speedster, but can respond based upon Ballard's book and videos. Ballard wants the right shoulder moving up in backswing while the left moves level to the right side, into the brace of the right leg. The spine stays vertical, the left shoulder may look down, but that depends a lot on the posture. If you set up as Ballard advocates, with the chest up, a** under the hips, the left shoulder does not look like it goes down. Getting the right shoulder up has been the key to my driving the last two months. If it goes up and not around, I am driving it 20 yards longer. If it goes around, duck hook time. However, if the left shoulder goes down too much, you never get in the right sided brace. Another benefit, I have been toeing in the right foot on bunker shots and it makes an incredible difference. Very consistent low point when the club moves up, not around.






    Your comment on the spine is especially important. Ballard talks a lot about the spine. He wants the spine at address not to be tipped toward or away from the target. The spine then shifts back during the backswing to load the back leg, but does not tip away from the target (sway) nor forward the target (reverse pivot) in doing so. The spine, which is the center of the body, then shifts toward the target on the downswing, again without tipping toward or away from the target, so that it returns to the attitude it was in at the address position, and then on to the finish where it becomes vertical in both planes (standing straight up). If you do this properly there is no need, in my view, to worry about the shoulders, as they basically have to move with the spine - I see no way for the shoulders to move independently of the spine. And if you manage the movement of the spine correctly the back shoulder does go high, just like what Ballard wants.



    So, if the spine and the shoulders are dependent on each other, what is cause and what is effect? Should the management of the spine result in the proper movement of the shoulders? Or, should management of the shoulders result in the proper movement of the spine/center of the body? It likely makes no difference, rather it is how you best feel it. For me, the feeling of proper control of the center of my body is more fundamental than what happens with my shoulders, and I cannot think about both at the same time.
    Good question. Cowen would say the loading of the shoulders moves the spine. Cowen also emphasizes the right shoulder moving up, in the backswing. I think once the spine is set at address, the movement of the shoulders allows the spine to move right into the brace of the right side. What always has been appealing to Ballard's teaching is it's reliance on athletic movement in other sport. How someone can throw something far without allowing their spine to move with the rest of the body is a puzzle. Ballard apparently thinks Sorenstam has the best swing ever. What I see in her swing, is the freedom of the spine moving in combination with the rest of her body. Stenson shows it as well. It is a lot more than simply releasing the eyes early on the downswing. I have read that in the 70's and 80's, Ballard only taught 2 day lessons, with the first day on the backswing and 2nd on the downswing. When you get into the address posture identified by Speedster in the first thread, you understand why bits and pieces of Ballard might not work. It truly is a system as opposed to a key or feel.
    Posted:
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  • dodgerdodger  425WRX Points: 108Members Posts: 425 Greens
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    Speedster, reading thru you initial post, you discuss the feel of no forearm rotation in the backswing. Is that just in the takeaway? or does the golfer maintain that "feel" all the way to the top?
    Posted:
  • bluedotbluedot  3695WRX Points: 387Handicap: 7.5Members Posts: 3,695 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #174
    dodger wrote:


    Speedster, reading thru you initial post, you discuss the feel of no forearm rotation in the backswing. Is that just in the takeaway? or does the golfer maintain that "feel" all the way to the top?




    Try this without a golf club.



    With your arms in front of you and your hands in a golf grip, unjoin your hands and take your right arm to where it would be if you were going to throw a ball, which is the Ballard "connected" position for the right arm. At address, your right elbow was pointing down; at the new "throwing" position, it still points down. Now simply bring your left arm across your body and rejoin your hands; the left elbow will be pointing down the entire time as well. So minimal forearm rotation.



    Now from the address position take your hands away but rotate your forearms as you do it. You'll end up on a much lower, flatter plane from which you'll often be stuck or have to flip to save the swing unless your ability to rotate FAST is Tour pro speed.
    Posted:
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #175
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • bluedotbluedot  3695WRX Points: 387Handicap: 7.5Members Posts: 3,695 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #176

    dodger wrote:


    Speedster, reading thru you initial post, you discuss the feel of no forearm rotation in the backswing. Is that just in the takeaway? or does the golfer maintain that "feel" all the way to the top?




    All the way to the top.... once you get past waist high the club hinges up from the elbows. A good way to get the feeling and sense of what I mean by that is to run the butt of the club into your sternum and grip the club in the steel of the shaft and then go to waist high, then keep the left elbow down and fold the club up as the butt end leaves the sternum.




    So a couple of years ago, I was taking a lesson with Barry Walters at St. James Plantation in Southport, NC after the folks at Jimmy Ballard's office had recommended him to me. (BTW, it was the best lesson I've ever had, and I've had some good ones.) We're working on this very thing, but all he has me doing is taking the club back to waist high without getting behind me, which he called "riding the rail". I asked him what I should do from there, and his answer was, "Nothing; just swing the club." I know that sounds too easy, but it's true; if you've gotten that far, then forearm rotation isn't the problem if something goes haywire.



    I think if your forearms are going to rotate and the club is going to get sucked inside, it's going to happen REALLY early; if you get to waist high on plane, then from there you don't have much to worry about. And FOR ME, the keys to NOT rotating too much and getting the club inside and under the plane are setting up tall, especially with my chin off my chest, having the right toe pointing slightly in so that I'm in a braced position at the start, and maintaining the "weightlifter's position" in terms of my balance. When my chin gets down, or when I shift my weight toward my toes on the backswing, or when I crouch on the backswing, THEN my forearms rotate and I get the club too far behind me and way under the plane. But the fix is NEVER my forearms; it's figuring out what's causing me to disconnect my right arm on the backswing so that it doesn't work up into a strong throwing position.



    The great thing about the Ballard swing is that it is "big muscles" and that it isn't about positions. As a rule, I think that it is REALLY difficult to consistently manage smaller muscles and the upper body during the golf swing; everything is going too fast. But the stuff we are talking about right now are prevented by a correct understanding of the Ballard address; if that's correct, then there isn't that much that can go wrong.
    Posted:
  • mocokidmocokid  2127WRX Points: 327Members Posts: 2,127 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #177
    bluedot wrote:


    dodger wrote:


    Speedster, reading thru you initial post, you discuss the feel of no forearm rotation in the backswing. Is that just in the takeaway? or does the golfer maintain that "feel" all the way to the top?




    All the way to the top.... once you get past waist high the club hinges up from the elbows. A good way to get the feeling and sense of what I mean by that is to run the butt of the club into your sternum and grip the club in the steel of the shaft and then go to waist high, then keep the left elbow down and fold the club up as the butt end leaves the sternum.




    So a couple of years ago, I was taking a lesson with Barry Walters at St. James Plantation in Southport, NC after the folks at Jimmy Ballard's office had recommended him to me. (BTW, it was the best lesson I've ever had, and I've had some good ones.) We're working on this very thing, but all he has me doing is taking the club back to waist high without getting behind me, which he called "riding the rail". I asked him what I should do from there, and his answer was, "Nothing; just swing the club." I know that sounds too easy, but it's true; if you've gotten that far, then forearm rotation isn't the problem if something goes haywire.



    I think if your forearms are going to rotate and the club is going to get sucked inside, it's going to happen REALLY early; if you get to waist high on plane, then from there you don't have much to worry about. And FOR ME, the keys to NOT rotating too much and getting the club inside and under the plane are setting up tall, especially with my chin off my chest, having the right toe pointing slightly in so that I'm in a braced position at the start, and maintaining the "weightlifter's position" in terms of my balance. When my chin gets down, or when I shift my weight toward my toes on the backswing, or when I crouch on the backswing, THEN my forearms rotate and I get the club too far behind me and way under the plane. But the fix is NEVER my forearms; it's figuring out what's causing me to disconnect my right arm on the backswing so that it doesn't work up into a strong throwing position.



    The great thing about the Ballard swing is that it is "big muscles" and that it isn't about positions. As a rule, I think that it is REALLY difficult to consistently manage smaller muscles and the upper body during the golf swing; everything is going too fast. But the stuff we are talking about right now are prevented by a correct understanding of the Ballard address; if that's correct, then there isn't that much that can go wrong.




    One thing about the Ballard swing that confuses me is hitting short shots. How to coil into the inside right leg and inside the heel of the right foot if you have a shot under 100 yards? Seems you basically have to keep the weight primarily on the left side, there's no time to transfer when you have a short lob over a bunker to a tight pin (say a 25 yd shot in this case). I've had more problems with short shots, pitches LT 100 yds than hitting full shots with the Ballard method. Seems I over transfer onto the right side coil, and can't get weight where it belongs at impact.
    Posted:
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  • dodgerdodger  425WRX Points: 108Members Posts: 425 Greens
    Joined:  #178
    Thanks for the reply speedster and bluedot. My achilles heel in the swing is the club dropping too far behind me in the downswing. No forearm rotation on the backswing helps significantly, I also get a much better position with my wrists under the shaft at the top, rather than at the side. I agree the setup takes care of a lot of it, but I still have to pay attention all the way to the top of the backswing in practice to make sure the club doesn't go behind me with a closed face. Thanks again, my ball striking has really improved.
    Posted:
  • bluedotbluedot  3695WRX Points: 387Handicap: 7.5Members Posts: 3,695 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #179
    mocokid wrote:

    bluedot wrote:


    dodger wrote:


    Speedster, reading thru you initial post, you discuss the feel of no forearm rotation in the backswing. Is that just in the takeaway? or does the golfer maintain that "feel" all the way to the top?




    All the way to the top.... once you get past waist high the club hinges up from the elbows. A good way to get the feeling and sense of what I mean by that is to run the butt of the club into your sternum and grip the club in the steel of the shaft and then go to waist high, then keep the left elbow down and fold the club up as the butt end leaves the sternum.




    So a couple of years ago, I was taking a lesson with Barry Walters at St. James Plantation in Southport, NC after the folks at Jimmy Ballard's office had recommended him to me. (BTW, it was the best lesson I've ever had, and I've had some good ones.) We're working on this very thing, but all he has me doing is taking the club back to waist high without getting behind me, which he called "riding the rail". I asked him what I should do from there, and his answer was, "Nothing; just swing the club." I know that sounds too easy, but it's true; if you've gotten that far, then forearm rotation isn't the problem if something goes haywire.



    I think if your forearms are going to rotate and the club is going to get sucked inside, it's going to happen REALLY early; if you get to waist high on plane, then from there you don't have much to worry about. And FOR ME, the keys to NOT rotating too much and getting the club inside and under the plane are setting up tall, especially with my chin off my chest, having the right toe pointing slightly in so that I'm in a braced position at the start, and maintaining the "weightlifter's position" in terms of my balance. When my chin gets down, or when I shift my weight toward my toes on the backswing, or when I crouch on the backswing, THEN my forearms rotate and I get the club too far behind me and way under the plane. But the fix is NEVER my forearms; it's figuring out what's causing me to disconnect my right arm on the backswing so that it doesn't work up into a strong throwing position.



    The great thing about the Ballard swing is that it is "big muscles" and that it isn't about positions. As a rule, I think that it is REALLY difficult to consistently manage smaller muscles and the upper body during the golf swing; everything is going too fast. But the stuff we are talking about right now are prevented by a correct understanding of the Ballard address; if that's correct, then there isn't that much that can go wrong.




    One thing about the Ballard swing that confuses me is hitting short shots. How to coil into the inside right leg and inside the heel of the right foot if you have a shot under 100 yards? Seems you basically have to keep the weight primarily on the left side, there's no time to transfer when you have a short lob over a bunker to a tight pin (say a 25 yd shot in this case). I've had more problems with short shots, pitches LT 100 yds than hitting full shots with the Ballard method. Seems I over transfer onto the right side coil, and can't get weight where it belongs at impact.




    I can only answer for me, but here goes. I think the setup is exactly the same, except possibly with a somewhat more narrow stance compared to the full swing width (in which the inside of the heels are as far apart as the outside of the shoulders). If you are hitting the partial shots correctly with ANY method, the backswing is shortened, but the thru swing is still accelerating with speed at the bottom. So if you learn your distances with a 3/4 and a 1/2 swing with each wedge, then after a couple of practice swings, hit the ball and don't worry about how much coil you do or don't have; the shortened swing will take care of that. You can still trigger the swing with a slight weight shift to the inside of the right foot without any worries about how much you are or are not coiling.
    Posted:
  • Jersey golferJersey golfer  479WRX Points: 90Handicap: 14.9Members Posts: 479 Greens
    Joined:  #180
    mocokid wrote:

    bluedot wrote:


    dodger wrote:


    Speedster, reading thru you initial post, you discuss the feel of no forearm rotation in the backswing. Is that just in the takeaway? or does the golfer maintain that "feel" all the way to the top?




    All the way to the top.... once you get past waist high the club hinges up from the elbows. A good way to get the feeling and sense of what I mean by that is to run the butt of the club into your sternum and grip the club in the steel of the shaft and then go to waist high, then keep the left elbow down and fold the club up as the butt end leaves the sternum.




    So a couple of years ago, I was taking a lesson with Barry Walters at St. James Plantation in Southport, NC after the folks at Jimmy Ballard's office had recommended him to me. (BTW, it was the best lesson I've ever had, and I've had some good ones.) We're working on this very thing, but all he has me doing is taking the club back to waist high without getting behind me, which he called "riding the rail". I asked him what I should do from there, and his answer was, "Nothing; just swing the club." I know that sounds too easy, but it's true; if you've gotten that far, then forearm rotation isn't the problem if something goes haywire.



    I think if your forearms are going to rotate and the club is going to get sucked inside, it's going to happen REALLY early; if you get to waist high on plane, then from there you don't have much to worry about. And FOR ME, the keys to NOT rotating too much and getting the club inside and under the plane are setting up tall, especially with my chin off my chest, having the right toe pointing slightly in so that I'm in a braced position at the start, and maintaining the "weightlifter's position" in terms of my balance. When my chin gets down, or when I shift my weight toward my toes on the backswing, or when I crouch on the backswing, THEN my forearms rotate and I get the club too far behind me and way under the plane. But the fix is NEVER my forearms; it's figuring out what's causing me to disconnect my right arm on the backswing so that it doesn't work up into a strong throwing position.



    The great thing about the Ballard swing is that it is "big muscles" and that it isn't about positions. As a rule, I think that it is REALLY difficult to consistently manage smaller muscles and the upper body during the golf swing; everything is going too fast. But the stuff we are talking about right now are prevented by a correct understanding of the Ballard address; if that's correct, then there isn't that much that can go wrong.




    One thing about the Ballard swing that confuses me is hitting short shots. How to coil into the inside right leg and inside the heel of the right foot if you have a shot under 100 yards? Seems you basically have to keep the weight primarily on the left side, there's no time to transfer when you have a short lob over a bunker to a tight pin (say a 25 yd shot in this case). I've had more problems with short shots, pitches LT 100 yds than hitting full shots with the Ballard method. Seems I over transfer onto the right side coil, and can't get weight where it belongs at impact.




    Here is a Bill Abrams video that might help.



    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster  670WRX Points: 544Handicap: +2Members Posts: 670 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2019 #181
    Edited
    Posted:
    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12), Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter: Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
47

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